Hello all. 
About four or five years ago I had a spiritual experience and since then have seen a gradual ebbing away of the self-centered energy that was powering my sex drive.
I’ve found recently that I am developing the capacity to orgasm without ejaculating and that this can be repeated apparently indefinitely.
Afterwards, there is much less feeling of energy loss and it almost feels like the body has been cleansed from inside. The pleasure aspect doesn’t particularly interest me however. What I wonder is whether this is actually of benefit to the body in any way? Even better - does it have a purpose that could aid in spiritual cultivation? Or is it simply the least unhealthy way to have sex? Or is it actually bad for the body to orgasm six times without ejaculating? I’m completely clueless as this is new territory for me.
I always imagined this stuff as a way to harmonize sex into spiritual living as much as possible and to mitigate the damage caused (damage is a strong word) by reducing energy loss etc. Am I wrong about that?
Also, as lust decreases, I wonder what motivation will move my sex drive in future. Isn’t it destined to disappear entirely once the Self is fully realised?
What are your spiritual practices, Gnosis? Are you following AYP?
Hi Dogboy,
I’ve spent just under ten years studying with a Zen master in London. Zen and Buddhism generally is what I’m most familiar with, however I have increasing interest in Tantra and am slowly becoming more familiar with the concepts and terminology (Bhakti, Brahmacharya, etc.).
Zen was often called the “Wisdom school” because it’s entire focus historically has been on what is here referred to as Advaita or non-duality, and it pretty much ignored everything else in pursuit of that goal. I think there is great benefit in this but it does mean that there’s a bit of a gap in the area of how exactly the body can open up in a harmonious manner. I think that is what is gravitating me towards learning about the chakras and tantric sex and everything else.
I very much want to understand the role of sex in spirituality. To be honest, even though I’ve developed the capacity to redirect energy to prevent ejaculation, my libido has diminished and is continuing to do so and I still haven’t really forgiven life for this. I know this area is a block for me.
Hi Gnosis,
Welcome to the forum!
Moving towards non-ejaculatory sex is a natural part of the process of spiritual evolution. When you don’t ejaculate during orgasm, the semen will either remain in the testes or it will move up into the bladder. This can also happen during pre-orgasmic sex.
From the bladder, an etheric aspect of the sexual fluids can move higher up into the body producing what is called amrita, or the elixir of immortality. What you are experiencing is the beginning of this process.
Whether this process takes place or not depends more on your spiritual practices and the state of purification of your body than on anything else.
If you have not discovered them yet, the Tantra lessons on this site cover many aspects of Tantric sex including the process of the transubstantiation of sexual energy and fluids. You can find them here:
Tantra Lessons Directory
As for whether Tantric practices are harmful to the body, I have never come across any scientific studies that have been carried out which show that Tantric sexual practices are unhealthy. People have been using Tantric practices for thousands of years without any issues being reported, so I tend to assume from that, that it is not harmful. If it was, I am sure we would have heard about it by now.
You may also find this podcast on Amrita helpful.
Christi
Thanks very much Christi :). I wasn’t familiar with amrita. Very interesting
Hello Christi and Gnosis0,
I am new to the AYPforum and since I’m here and already looking at posts that concern my practices and issues too I’d like you guys to guide me further.
My struggles with non ejaculatory orgasm are quite a few. To top the charts I have two major worrisome symptoms I am really stressed about.
1). When using the pelvic muscle contractions/anal sphincter at orgasm the semen does not leak out but somehow moves into the bladder causing retrograde ejaculation which makes me feel really discouraged about my solo cultivation practice. Even going without orgasm for more than a week I’d still have semen in ny urine as frothy whitish viscous discharge. Is this dangerous?
2). I also seem to have manifested tightening of the internal anal muscles that control my bowel movement. I have been noticing for over a month that my bkwels are not evacuating completely as i have to use excessive pressure to open the anus to evacuate them. They feelas though they are being blocked by muscle cramps inside. I cannot control them. This is really disturbing my daily life. Also, during self-pleasuring and moving the energy upwards it feels that the energy is not moving beyond the lower back/kidney area. My ribs and kidney region aches when I move and bend. What could cause this?
Lastly, while solo cultivation i sweat a lot and my groin perspires and my whole body just sweats like crazy. Is this normal? 
Hi taotanvir
Welcome to the AYP forum.
Just a quick word to reassure you that what you have described are common symptoms along the way of transforming sexual energy. If you experience too much discomfort, that will be a signal you need to self-pace (i.e. reduce yoga practices for a while). I will let male practitioners answer your questions in more detail.
In the meantime, you might find it useful reading this lesson: www.aypsite.org/T11.html
Sweating not associated with physical exercise can be a form of purification once the energy has started moving. And yes, bowel movements can be affected during the transition period. Things will settle down.
It might be useful if you told us a bit about your practice.
All the best.
Hi Taotanvir,
As BlueRC mentioned, these are all normal symptoms associated with spiritual awakening.
In AYP, non-ejaculatory orgasm is not something that is aimed for during sex. The advice given is to work towards cultivating a pre-orgasmic state, which means no orgasm and no ejaculation. Orgasms without ejaculation are something that can happen later, when the body is ready, but when it does, it does not give cause for any concern.
Having semen in your urine is not a cause for concern. It is part of the process of naturally occurring vajroli that happens at a certain stage on the path. As I mentioned in a post above, it will gradually transform into the production of amrita in the higher centres. It is not dangerous to have semen in your bladder. It will be released naturally during urination, or will be naturally reabsorbed into the body.
See the Tantra lessons on the process of natural vajroli.
See also this lesson:
Lesson 51 - Strange Gurglings in Pranayama
A tightening of the anal sphincter muscle can happen due to automatic mulabandha coming into play, which can affect elimination and bowel movements. This happens when there is a strong upward-flowing prana in the body due to the process of kundalini. In yoga there are a number of physical cleansing practices called Shatkarmas. One of these is called basti and it can help with elimination.
See this lesson on that:
Lesson 312 - Shatkarmas, Bodily Purification and Enlightenment
Sweating is a normal purification symptom. If the prana is not rising up far in the body, this can be caused by energetic blockages. Having a daily full-scope yoga practice will eliminate blockages over time, allowing prana to rise to the higher centres, and to everywhere else in the body. Having an effective yoga practice is actually far more important than anything we can do with tantric sexual practices or cleansing techniques.
Christi
Hi BlueRaincoat and Christi!
Thanks for your precious insights
Just for the record, I really admire and sincerely follow all tbat you guys say esp. Christi and Yogani at AYP here.
However, just to give you a quick idea of my background and what exactly I’m experiencing to possibly look at every angle of my problems, I would like you to know my history of practices:
Firstly, I am not doing any of the stuff that is mentioned here on AYP. I stumbled upon the method of mastering the male non ejaculatory multiple orgasms on Youtube and got hooked onto the idea immediately with an aim of improving my sex life and overall persona as it promises of all positive changes if trained consistently with dedication. So initially it was just about learning the actual technique that I started practicing daily. Basically taoist stuff that Mantak Chia teaches and other esoteric yogis likes in India its known as tantric masturbation.
So I got really interested and before I could realize that all of this was quite dangerous and possibly harmful to an irreversible degree is when I became worries and switched over to find out how it’s really done cause simple experimentation of playing with my sexual energy for hours became draining and I started losing my body structure and shape I lost 2-3 kgs of muscle mass.
Then I left it for some weeks but it used to feel so good and calming that it was there in the back of my mind 24/7
So i started doing the process again. It involved - Getting aroused by hand stimulation of the penis and reaching a semi-aroused state of 50-75% erection and meanwhile taking deep breaths inhale from nose and exhale from mouth with the tongue on the roof of the mouth to try to feel the energy moving from the spine to the solar plexus in a micro cosmic orbit while bringing my sexual energy to travel from the perineum to the spine by contracting the PC muscle and anal sphincter repeatedly while masturbating.
I was doing this every day for an hour for over 4 months. without any other meditation or physical exercise like the gym. Which I realize now that was a big mistake not to balance it all.
Although I do practice Sadhguru’s Shambhavi Mahamudra which is a 21 minute full body breathing kriya which involves alternate nasal breathing AUM chanting the three main bandhas jalandhar uddiyana and mula and finish with shambhavi.
I have not been able to keep up with it on a day to day basis. I do it very infrequently.
Apart from that I have just been focusing on solo cultivation sessions in an effort to achieve long lasting sexual orgasms without spilling any sperm. I actually reached that state many times but by force cause I would anyway lose the semen through urine and the subsequent energy loss would occur.
So it has really disturbed my mental state and I have become anxious about my sexuality fearing about things like infertility or my ejaculations not spurting out with power like before they jusy ooze out without any force.
Have I done heavy damage due to these practices?
Cause I know for a fact that before doing any of this stuff I never had these issues. It is only after i have started doing this so obsessively that has costed me issues with my sexual confidence bowel incontinence muscle loss pain in lower back and kidneys and retrograde ejaculation which just feels unnatural.
Have I damaged any nerves doing extra strong pelvic contractions?
To check all of these symptoms I still occasionally masturbate just to see if the sexual function is normal or not and I achieve an erection by stimulating. So i hope if that’s happening things can get back to normal right?
Thanks a million!
Please reply
Thank you for sharing, taotanvir.
Sounds like another cautionary tale about adopting advanced tantric practices before establishing a sound meditation practice. We hear them every now and then on this forum. I happen to remember another Mantak Chia follower who wrote here some years back. He was suicidal. I should also say that he wrote a few years later to say he was starting to feel better, so things do settle down eventually. In your case, it is not as bad as it could have been. Your symptoms, as you described them in your first post on this thread, are relatively common for male yogis during a certain stage of evolution.
[quote=“taotanvir”]
Have I done heavy damage due to these practices?
[/quote]If by ‘heavy damage’ you mean anatomical damage, then no, that is unlikely. But you are in unknown territory, as you have unleashed Kundalini without having developed the Witness. If you look at spiritual traditions in general, the two complementary opposites are always present (Shiva and Shakti, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, Yin and Yang etc.)
I would recommend taking up meditation. It is the practice that develops the Witness (called Inner Silence in AYP). You can find instructions in Lesson 13 on this website if you feel inclined to give it a go. You can find it by clicking the “Deep Meditation” link on the left of this window.
[quote=“taotanvir”]
Although I do practice Sadhguru’s Shambhavi Mahamudra which is a 21 minute full body breathing kriya which involves alternate nasal breathing AUM chanting the three main bandhas jalandhar uddiyana and mula and finish with shambhavi.
[/quote]I would be careful with that practice. Breathing techniques and bandhas are for stimulating the energy. You may be putting gasoline over the fire.
Take care.
Hi Taotanvir,
BlueRaincoat has given you very good advice already.
What you are doing, or have been doing, is to focus almost exclusively on one practice and to overdo that practice to excess. This is dangerous and is never recommended. Yoga should be a balanced practice, including all 8 limbs and should be built up gradually, without taking any single practice to excess.
If you read through the Main Lessons on this site, the building up of a full-scope system of yoga is described. In the Tantra Lessons, it says that tantra should not be used as a stand-alone practice, but that a strong foundation in meditation and other yogic practices, should be cultivated first.
Concentrating purely on the energetic aspects of awakening (especially sexual), and using energetic practices excessively, can damage both the body and the mind. So, we cannot rule out the possibility that some damage has not been done already. But the body and mind also have a tremendous ability to heal themselves, under the right conditions. So, all is not lost and you can get back on track quite easily.
It is important that you do not continue with the practices that you have been doing, as they have obviously been causing you harm and are not producing any useful effect. That in itself could be difficult, as the body develops habits (vasanas) and habits are not easy to change. So, it could be a slow process, especially in the beginning.
I would encourage you to develop a full-scope yoga practice, beginning with meditation and later on adding Spinal Breathing Pranayama. Gentle and limited tantric sexual practices including pre-orgasmic sex, can be added onto that foundation once some stability is present. In the beginning tantric sexual practices should always be pre-orgasmic, otherwise you will continue to experience the loss of energy that you have been experiencing. Later on, tantric sexual practices may naturally become fully orgasmic, without ejaculation and without any energy loss. Eventually, the whole-body orgasmic state becomes 24/7, occurring quite naturally all of the time.
The important thing is not to get the cart in front of the horse. It is meditation and pranayama which lead to a permanently orgasmic condition, rather than tantric sexual practices, whatever anyone else may say. Tantric sexual practices can help in the process, but they are a minor player on the stage. Eventually tantric sexual practices are transcended altogether, even whilst the condition of ecstatic-bliss, divine love and continuous full-body orgasm continue.
It is a long journey, but also a very enjoyable one.
See this lesson:
Lesson T31 - Constant Coming…
Christi
Hi Christi,
Thanks a million for your valuable insights. It will be great if you could further clear off a few of my other doubts.
- If a person is not following any of the sitting meditative practices or any disciplined yoga routine such as myself who is just trying to master sexual transmutation. So is it so that even then my symptoms like sweating profusely in the perineum area and spinal area and bowel changes and bubbly urine that has semen in it.Will all these still be counted as welcome purification signs or they will affect my body and stamina negatively because there is no other supplementary practice?
- I would like to know if stopping all forms of masturbation (edging, orgasming, porn induced arousal, ejaculation) and giving up the pattern of self arousal and breathing into the spine while getting horny to complete the microcosmic orbit using visualization technique of energy spreading all over the body breath regulation pc muscle contraction and stopping before the point of no return.
All of which is described as the process of achieving non ejaculatory full body orgasms. If by abstaining from this and just indulging in normal sexual intercourse with full ejaculation be of any benefit?
Cause I think an experiment of a 2-3 month celibacy could cure all the bladder/bowel imbalances that are ruining my daily life.
Lastly, do you suggest me to get normal tests done to check my testosterone levels, prostate health, kidney diagnosis and zinc levels as I’m losing my shape and getting thin.
I Dont want to lose any more muscle. Goingbto the gym jas become a guilty frustration as I run short of breath and start palpitating after just a little bit of exertion. At 22 no youngster wants that you know?
I guess this tantric bullsh*t has gotten in the way of my fitness journey and really reduced my stamina.
PLEASE GIVE A STRONG ADVICE.
GOD BLESS AYP! for I can share all this freely.
Thanks
Hi Taotanvir,
The real issue that you are experiencing is that you are focussing on energetic purification exclusively without cultivation many of the more important aspects of yoga, which help to regulate and stabilize the whole process of purification. Practices such as meditation help to cultivate peace, equanimity and stillness, which are more important qualities to be cultivating at this stage.
Peacefulness and inner silence give us the stability needed to weather the highs and lows of ecstasy involved with the energetic side of the process of awakening. Without that, it is like sailing a ship without a rudder. Things can easily go off course, and it can be very difficult to get back on track.
You are certainly overdoing things both energetically and sexually, so you need to self-pace accordingly. It is not really a question of whether your symptoms are signs of purification or not, it is more a question of how much damage you are doing by continuing to practice excessively. Moderation is the key word. Tantric sexual practices are designed to increase stamina, as well as many other things, so if your stamina is being reduced by the practices, then that is a sign of imbalance and/ or excess.
Complete celibacy also is not necessarily that healthy. It can cause a build-up of energy (prana) in the body, leading to difficulties later on. It can also be repressive from a mental and emotional standpoint, which can cause further issues. Leading a healthy sexual lifestyle, with occasional release, whilst concentration on building up a full yogic practice, including meditation and pranayama, is the best way to go. Tantric sexual practices can come later on, in their own time and when you have prepared your body and mind to be able to cope with the purification involved.
If you are concerned about your health and you think that a physical cause could be there, then certainly go to the doctor to get checked up. Be sure to be eating a healthy diet as well if you are able to.
best wishes,
Christi
Christi,
So essentially I must immediately stop doing solo energetic cultivation through sexual arousal and not go overboard with all the guilt surrounding my current status as I can still minimize the damage and get back to good health right?
And when it comes to leading a healthy sexual lifestyle with an occasional release, are you implying pre-orgasmic sex or normal masturbation with ejaculating a full load of sperm? Also what exactly is pre orgasmic sex and can it be done alone? I think pre-orgasmic means edging and just backing off with a full erection before ejaculation takes place. Just refraining from orgasming right?
Finally, I think Basti would be a good cleansing technique for all o my internal anatomical blockages. Along with that maybe drinking a lot of water so that my bladder and kidneys keep working properly.
The occurrence of slight pains in stretching in the lower back and a feeling of almost a blocked spasm in the lower ribs, kidney area on the backside is constant. So doing physical exercise or Pilates would be good to knock off these imbalances.
What do you recommend Christi!?
Thanks!
Viva AYP!
Hi Taotanvir,
Yes, because of your situation and the difficulties you are experiencing, I would advise stopping all energetic spiritual practices, including tantric sexual practices for a while. Concentrate for now on cultivating a meditation practice and on grounding activities to stabilise your body energetically. Grounding activities are described in this lesson:
Lesson 69 - Kundalini Symptoms, Imbalances and Remedies
Letting go of guilt is also a really good move. Guilt is not going to help you to move forwards.
Leading a healthy sexual lifestyle means not indulging in sex excessively. For now, leave out tantric sexual practices such as pre-orgasmic sex, as they will increase the prana in the body and could make your symptoms worse. So yes, that means releasing sperm when you have sex. Leading a normal sexual lifestyle also means not repressing sexual energy by abstaining completely from sex if that is not your nature. Releasing energy and fluids once in a while is fine. Once a week, or once a fortnight is not a problem.
When you do reach a position where you are stable, and are established in a regular meditation practice, then you can introduce tantric sexual practices again if you wish to. For men, pre-orgasmic sex is one of the most important of these. Pre-orgasmic sex is not exactly the same as “edging”, in that it is not about coming to the brink of orgasm and then backing off. It is about staying well in front of orgasm and backing off when necessary. It is described in this lesson:
Lesson T4 - The Holdback Method - A Stairway to Heaven
The problem with “edging” is that it can lead to eventual loss of both prana and sexual fluids.
Basti can certainly be a useful practice, especially if you are experiencing difficulty with bowel movements caused by excessive kundalini. Drinking plenty of water is also very advisable.
Certainly pilates, or physical exercise, can help with aces and pains in the body which are caused by excessive flows of energy. Of course, in yoga, we use yoga asana for that purpose.
Addition 71.1 - Asana Starter Kit, with Instructions, Illustrations and Video
Addition 383.1 - Enhanced AYP Asana Routine (Illustrated and Video)
Christi
Can I practice the holdback method in solo cultivation?
Just masturbating and holding back well ahead of orgasm…
And does the Shambhavi Mahamudra meditation fall under energetic practices?
Can I do the full kriya that involves the bandhas?
Thanks!
Hi Taotanvir,
If you are in a situation where you have too much prana in your body (overload), then you want to be reducing energy practices rather than continuing with them. So this would mean not using the holdback method during masturbation, or sex with a partner, as this will increase the build-up of prana in the body.
Bring yourself into a more balanced and grounded condition first.
And yes, the Shambhavi Mahamudra practice that you describe in this post is an energy cultivation practice. So that would be another one to self-pace (cut-back) with.
Christi
Christi
Thanks for this entire post.
I have one last question:
Doe cultivating energy from holdback method done with masturbation have anything to do with excessive sweating on the surface of the body and reduction of muscle mass?
Hi Taotanvir,
Yes, the holdback method is designed to hold prana in the body and cause it to rise up towards the higher centres. If someone has too much energy in their body and is suffering from energetic overload then they can experience various symptoms. Sweating is a very common symptom of excess energy, whilst reduction in muscle mass is less common.
There are many other symptoms which can be experienced such as fatigue, irritability, pressure in the head, heat in the body etc. Symptoms are not necessarily an issue unless they are causing pain or are uncomfortable in which case we need to self-pace accordingly.
If you read through the main lessons on this site and the tantra lessons, many of the questions you are asking here will be answered and you will gain a much better understanding of the whole process of purification and awakening.
Christi
But Christi
Wouldn’t daily holdback practices fall under the same category of excessive masturbation/stimulation even though there is no ejaculation involved?
For that matter aren’t tantric sexual practices an addiction as a seeker would compulsively keep ascendong prana continuously.
Isn’t this harmful for fertility or sperm production? It could make you very lustful and hanituated tp sexual stimulation.