Yes of course. I totally agree. I am not about to break my wedding vows. If this situation was ever to occur for me personally I would tell my wife of my intentions before I ever actually acted on them. Not that that would cause any less pain.
Please remember this is hypothetical…I don’t want to do anything. This was just a topic brought up recently in discussion and it made me uncomfortable so I set about inquiring into the source of the discomfort. This is part of the inquiry process for me.
Of course. And if this happened then this is what was meant to happen and there would likely be a lesson for me to learn which I would not have learned any other way.
Maybe A problem, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say the MAIN problem.
Yes of course!
Thank you for sharing Scott. Greatly appreciated.
Love,
Carson
Of course. But what is right can change depending on the moment right? No harm in discussing is there?
Haha…no, that is not what my question boils down to, haha. I could never cheat on my wife. This is more me wondering what would be appropriate should I meet someone that is without a doubt someone I should be with regardless of the fact that I am married.
Yes it’s true…I AM in heaven due to my practices! But don’t worry, there is no temptation, this is just a topic which gave me the opportunity to inquire.
What more could I hope for… Thank you.
Love,
Carson
You could turn the question around as well… If we are all One anyway… why do you need to engage in more than one deep relationship? You can’t reach more than the same Oneness anyway? And it’s lovely with whomever you share it with. If it isn’t lovely enough with the partner we might have… then that’s what we should look into. If we can’t handle One intimate relationship… what makes us think we can handle several?
I find myself agreeing more and more with this, and with what Katrine said. Being monogamous, being a father etc etc does bring me daily - hourly - minute by minute - face to face with both the rough and the smooth. It’s all just grist to the yogic mill, surely? The really s**t times are exactly as ‘interesting’ in terms of the yogic experience, in terms of consciousness, as the great times.
No need. But what if the opportunity is given anyways? Is it still inappropriate to engage?
Yes of course.
It’s not about a relationship not being “lovely” enough. It’s more about taking the opporunities given when resonating with them.
I don’t think the word “handle” is appropriate here…it’s not about whether or not one intimate relationship can’t be “handled”, it’s about the ability for one person to further the experience/growth of another through their own perspectives and personal experiences. Meaning, if a relationship has met it’s “goal” of each person giving and receiving all they can from the other, is it inappropriate to move on to a new relationship that can offer further growth? Again this is all theoretical.
Love,
Carson
Another thing: Yoginis and yogis are supposed to be beyond conventional morality because they exist in the Supreme Consciousness. But we’re also taught that this state has its own inherent morality - or at least something of the sort of is hinted.
Can anyone further along the Path explain this?
Namaste!
g
Wish I could take credit for that, but I can’t. This topic was suggested to me .
Actually just the other day I ASKED for more trauma in my life so that I could use that to fuel spiritual growth. I have experienced some trauma in my life, but there are some things I have yet to experience that are commonplace to many (like the death of a close friend or family member…all 4 of my grandparents are still alive etc…I am NOT wishing for the death of anyone!). I am finding my life just a little bit to perfect these days…and that can make it hard to stay motivated IME. For the majority of my life I CHOSE not to allow myself to feel happiness as I felt that made me complacent. Now that I have changed this and I allow myself to enjoy life I am finding that it is rare when I have situations that push me to investigation/inquiry. I need more in fact. I know I should be careful what I wish for as I will likely get it, but in this case I would like some personal difficulties so that I can use them as “grist for the yogic mill”.
Love,
Carson
That is for me a monogamic flow. In many western societies that’s what we do… move from one flower to the next when we are bored or “finished” somehow with the first.
Hey, Carson… I thought we talked about polygamy as an alternative… that would mean to have several intimate relationships at the same time equally interesting and fulfilling. If we want to change partners when we are tired of the first and go look for another one we are still monogamous… If we want to go polygamous because we are “finished” with the current partner… we could just as well break up, no? Why go polygamous instead of staying serial monogamous?
Hi emc…I wasn’t suggesting polygamy as a viable alternative…sorry if I am being confusing. I guess my aversion to the whole idea of being “finished” with a marriage is due to the vow of “Till death do we part”…Even if all lessons seem learned and there is a opportunity that resonates to move on to, there is still the issue of “breaking vows” that I have internal discomfort with. It’s a concept thing I know…drop it in silence.
Love,
Carson
When a relationship no longer serves the awakening of consciousness, the intelligent life will break it apart. We don’t have to make any decisions about it. Isn’t that relaxing? Drop it… and let the intelligence take over. It’s never wrong.
[quote]Originally posted by CarsonZi
Doesn’t Real Love exist regardless of concept or circumstance? Isn’t Real Love the foundation of All? Can we really put restrictions on Love?
Certainly not! freedom and love is what we truly are. THey go hand in hand. What is Love without Freedom? It’s not love anymore. And if we extrapolate and see all as One, like you said, then, even the distinction between “Love”, “Freedom” and other “values” just fades away… they are all the fruits of language/mind/rationalization. When silence and communion are there, all the concepts and labellings simply drop.
There shouldn’t be suffering…but what if there IS regardless of whether or not it “should” be there. Does that not change the situation a little?
If there IS suffering, then it’s good to understand WHY there is suffering. WHY our beloved feels pain…and here, it’s part of his/her inner work. We can only be present and give love to support the other in this personal inquiry.
More “shoulds”. But what if reality doesn’t abide by how you think it “should” be? What if your partner isn’t able to love you regardless? Or if your partner feels unloved because of this?
Sorry for the “shoulds”… (I should let go of the shoulds and shouldn’t )
If my partner isn’t able to love me regardless, if (s)he feels unloved, then, I would say it’s maybe because somewhere, (s)he isn’t happy by him/herself and not loving enough towards him/herself…
And if both partners feel that, according to circumstances, their love for eachother goes on and off, then, it’s probably because there’s no real unconditional Love from the beginning…there’s something else but not real Love.
How we express that Love to others and to our partners is what makes the difference I think.
The expressions are different yes… as long as the partners are unique individual, there is a unique merging with every being.
But Love is Love… it has no size or limit.
We each must find out own Truths…it sounds as though you have found this Truth for yourself.
I totally agree… there’s no absolute rule. Each one is unique. Otherwise life would be such a boring journey if there is only one truth for all
There is an old addage that goes something like: “If you love it, let it go. If it was meant to be it will find it’s way back to you.”
I wanted to tell you that, but couldn’t find the english version
Yeah I see what you are saying and this is where my difficulty lies. If I meet someone who I have an instant sexual/non-sexual connection with, it is hard not to extrapolate and picture the potential future possibilities despite being in a committed marriage. And this could lead (in my experience) to blockages that need to be purified. So I guess if you have no desire for deeper human connection then you already have, then this will not be an issue. BUT if one has a desire for a deeper human connection then what one has with their current partner, this desire could lead to difficulties both energetically and emotionally.
It’s definitely not an easy situation! but why do we inquire about things that are not part of our current situation?
At the end, all that will come to us in the future is meant to be…
How we will deal with it? We will see when it comes…
All my concern here was about your expanding Love and spiritual growth… to me, this is the priority… it’s not selfish…
it’s healthy for you and your beloved one…
(my little thoughts and feelings… nothing more nothing less)
Love…
If my beloved is suffering because I am leaving her for another, then, I am the cause of the suffering. This can’t be appropriate can it? (playing Devil’s advocate again a little here) They don’t have to choose to allow this suffering, I understand this, but it all depends on the degree of “awakeness” in this person. It can’t be good for our own karma to cause another emotional pain to further our own spiritual evolution can it?
Hahahahaha. You “should” stop making me laugh so hard! Hahaha
“If my partner isn’t able to love me regardless…” regardless of whether or not you abide by your wedding vows??? Is this not at least slightly reasonable of them?
Very true.
Indeed …in fact, I had a little revelation today in which I truly realized just how much everything happens for a reason…and not just that every thing happens for a reason but that everything has happened for a reason as well. I had a moment of clarity today in which I realized exactly how every moment of my life has been necessary for me to be where I am today. Absolutely nothing was coincidence or left to chance…my opportunities, failures, trials and tribulations, absolutely everything that has happened in my life has happened for a reason. And I can see that reason…the reason is right here, right now.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom…
Love Always,
Carson
Hi emc! we crossposted with 3 seconds of delay!!
Hey Carson! Look what miracles we ladies are accomplishing for you!!!
If this is not real loving polygamy!!!
My last words for today (although I’m already starting my tomorrow: it’s 12:25 am )
So… my last words for todaymorrow are:
LOVE, EVOLVE, drop all the VOWS and HOWs!!
Yes.
Well… …I may be wrong here Carson…but if you want to “prepare” yourself in case this happens…then really…it has already happened, hasn’t it…as an idea. Manifestation started with a thought.
All I can say is…if you are truly coming from the place inside where truth resides…you will know what to do and what not to do when the time comes. So favor this place…the rest will follow. The uncomfortable feelings for you around the theme of monogamy/limited spiritual growth… …they are like you say a token of something…not clear. Inquire here (not with many questions…just look at it…find out what the fear is…and what the desire is)
You know…because of really strong Bhakti…whenever something like this happened in my marriage…the most painful times where the ones where i bought the thought that said that I was “spiritually progressing less” because I was in this marriage. It was not at all true…for all the reasons mentioned above. I was spiritually progressing at the maximum (being unable to leave was a blessing…not an accomplishment on my part)…exactly because I was in this marriage. Just as I am now progressing because I am where I am. And all of it is due to grace.
Yes…in short:
In many ways…I accused him of “not being here” …when we were together. Completely overlooking… that for years… I was not here either. I was hanging out in a different mental place than his, that was all. Mine may have been more educated…more “spiritual” or whatever…it was still a mental world.
For years…I failed to make enough money so that his economic burden was lifted…I stayed home with the children for 8 years (and also took care of three other children for three years…to finance studies in homeopathy)I then got to work with people…doing what I loved most…but at a great finacial cost. And his need for financial security was much greater than mine…so this pained him.
I knew…when entering the marriage…that it was not only out of devotion to him. There was something missing from the start…something with the resonance…and I knew it, yet married anyway. It ment stability, security and the possibility of starting a family…it gave purpose to life. And I gave him what he wanted…it was like a silent bargain. However…I was in love with him…all through the marriage. Even when angry with him. Which is quite amazing concidering. I never stopped loving him…it grew into something deep and peaceful. But there was always grief because of the breach of communion. He was closed, and I did not challenge enough…there were years of trying…but i grew so weary…and eventually gave up. Because of fear…I shrank away from the pain of rejection. I was not explicit and clear with him from the beginning. I did not speak up because of fear of losing him. I lost the inner spark instead…but this loss…the pain of that…and the fracture that happened when cancer hit…turned the tides and brought me home to myself.
And then there are the thousand ways I acted egoically…lulling myself with stories to the contrary. He was a perfect mirror. Anything I ever blamed him for…were my own projections.
And there is lots more…but that’s enough for now
Thank you Katrine… I can relate to many things you said and this adds to my faith in the inner Guru and the transformation that is happening to me those last weeks…
I totally confirm it when you say that “it has already happened, hasn’t it…as an idea. Manifestation started with a thought.”
Also, thank you for reminding me (and us) that, regardless of the external context, our spiritual progress is an inherent process that “knows” very well how to make “good use” of any external context we are in… and this realization brings a big relief…and from the relief, comes relaxation and openeness to welcome any difficulty as an opportunity to grow.
And oooh yes, I recognize my own patterns when it comes to “accuse the other of not “being here”” when I feel I’m in deep communion with him… but with time, I realized that, whenever I accused him, it was in fact because “the thing” I was asking for wasn’t present in me anyway… If I was “truly HERE”, I wouldn’t have needed to ask for anything… it’s already here, no matter if the other responds to it or not. (but the ego likes to suffer and play victim!)
Also, there is this increasing feeling that, no matter the excuses or mental justifications we give to ourselves (like “I don’t want to behave in a way that could make the other suffer…” or “this relationship or context is a barrier to my spiritual progess”),
Life will always find a way, sooner or later, to kick our a** for us to move forward AND INward…
And this could happen through a disease, an accident… It seems more and more obvious to me that the more we postpone and hide our head in the sand like the ostrich, the more “sudden” and abrupt the “Hey! wake up!” comes from Life…
/|
Carson wrote [quote]
If my beloved is suffering because I am leaving her for another, then, I am the cause of the suffering. This can’t be appropriate can it?
[/quote]
It is insane to believe we cause other people’s suffering. Look at this example:
A)
I am leaving you.
Oh, but that is wrong. I still love you.
I am sorry I don’t love you enough to want to be with you anylonger.
Oh, I’m devastated. This is so terrible. Now I’m so afraid what will happen with me in my life and I’ll miss you so much I’ll die…
B)
I am leaving you.
Oh, that was a surprise! I still love you.
I am sorry I don’t love you enough to want to be with you anylonger.
Oh, I’m excited! This gives so many new opportunities. Now I’m so eager to find out what will happen with me in my life and even if I’ll miss you I’ll probably get a long really well.
In which of the two examples above did person A cause either suffering or joy for person B? Truth is: None! Whether suffering or joy occured it was totally and absolutely up to the person being left. His or her thoughts, assumptions and expectations about the situation decided whether it was a suffering or joy happening. Would you take cred for causing other people’s joy as well???
Don Miguel Ruiz has some good suggestions:
Never assume anything!
Never take anything personally!
It’s all projections anyway. Mind creates reality. We experience what we set up for ourselves. Always. 100%. Suffering is all about INTERPRETATIONS of a situation, coming from the mind. And we have absolutely NO possibility to know how another person will interpret a situation. Even if a person have interpreted it into suffering a thousand times… how do we know the insight won’t drop down this time and the reaction will be the opposite? Impossible to know what another person is thinking (until we reach that siddhi ) That type of “magical thinking” causes a lot of our OWN suffering. “If I do this, they will think that”… how do we know? We don’t. And even if the person causes suffering for him/herself. How do we know that’s not just exactly what s/he needs right now??? Well, we can know it’s just right! Why? Because life is always correct. 100%. What Is is what is, and it’s always True. As you just discovered yourself in your revelation. Everything has to happen exactly the way it does. Trust life.
So we better drop it, do our best in every situation and follow our hearts whispers. Life is lived so eloquently for us. Enjoy the show!
.