This is wonderful, Yogibear. Sounds like a breakthrough - I am very happy for you.
Yes. I was trying to convey to you that you need not be jealous of my experiences. I am sorry I did such a poor job of it I too want you to enjoy yourselfā¦not feel ālackingā. Reading my response to you, I see that when I say the physical experiences are āof no importanceāā¦I then automatically sort of brush off parts of your experience as being āunimportantā. I apologize - that is not what I want to do! Thanks for responding like you did, Yogibear. I will take it to heart and hopefully learn from it.
Of course you must enjoy and be happy about every aspect of your journey.
I hope you stay inspired!
Hi David,
Maybe you missed that bit, it was covered above. Before someone can claim the million dollar prize, they have to apply to take part in the competition. There are rules for taking part, one of which is to agree to an experiment, and Randi and his team are involved, along with the person demonstrating the supernatural power, in setting up the experiment. Then, the contestant who is attempting to demonste supernatural powers has to sign a legal document containing a number of clauses. One of the clauses contains these words:
āagree upon what will constitute a conclusion that he/she does not possess the claimed ability or powers.ā
The whole process is made public from the first application of a contestant via Randiās website. If agreements about what constitutes a conclusion are built into the framework of the experimentsā¦ and Iāll bet they are, then that effectively binds the contestant to a public statement that they do not posess the powers that they claim, whatever the outcome of the experiment. I am sure it is a mistake made by someone writing out the legal document, but at the moment, that is how it stands.
I did not say that he would not pay out under any circumstances. I said that if I were to go through the research stage, and come to a final testing stage, and invite Randi and his team along to watch, with my āfinal testā perameters as the test perameters of the experiment to see if I win the million dollars, then I would bet that they wouldnāt want to show up. That is not the same as saying he would not pay out under any circumstances. As you say though, he did admit that āhe always has an outā. And I think itās pretty obvious how that works.
There are a number of very questionable aspects to the whole competition some of which I have already covered. Here they are:
That the people running it are extremely predjudice against people with paranormal abilities, believing them all to be either fraudulent or self-deluded.
That they insist on playing an active role in setting up the research parameters for testing the abilities of the applicants, and that they will then make quite absurd public statements about the abilities of applicants based on what can only be considered to be research results at best.
They make out that what they are doing is somehow rational and scientific, when in fact it is quite the opposite, unscientific witch-hunting. No scientist would behave like this, making such rediculous public statements about people based on inconclusive evidence.
That they then imply that nobody has supernatural abilities simply because people who actually posess those abilities will not go through this sham of a competietion.
Randi is conning people into believing that he is a serious investigator of the supernatural, when in fact, he is not. If he was, then he would go about such an investigation in a rational and scientific manner, and would probably benefit the world in many wonderful ways. He has tricked millions of people into believing that he is doing good for the world rather than harm. It is difficult to say how many people have and will suffer as a result of his actions, and the actions of the members of the organisation he is involved with.
The way forward, as I see it, is for psychics to work with serious scientific research teams. Possibly magicians could be involved (the fake ones, not the real ones), to help eliminate obvious tricks and slight of hand, but then impartial magicians could be involved, not openly hostile magicians such as Randi.
I believe that in the future, supernatural abilities will play the major role in health care, both for treating people who are sick, and for helping people maintain good health. Disease prevention will become the predominant health care model, and healers using supernatural abilities will play the leading role in this. Increasing public knowledge of these abilities and acceptance by the scientific community will both play a part in bringing this about. The process has already begun, with millions of people all over the world already going to healers who posess supernatural abilities. Acceptance by the scientific community will be followed by incorporation of new models of existence and understanding of the higher aspects of the universe into scientific understanding. This has already begun with the progress being made with Quantum physics. The process is well under way already and things are closing in from all sides onto one inevitable outcome. People like Randi and his team are in fact part of a desperate last stand, which will meet defeat on every front as the tide of human spiritual transformation continues to rise all over the world.
Christi
I agree with you some of the way, but not entirely. A lot of what a person thinks of Randi will depend on what they believe in. Much the same for politics. Just a few notes:
That the people running it are extremely predjudice against people with paranormal abilities, believing them all to be either fraudulent or self-deluded.
This much is true.
That they insist on playing an active role in setting up the research parameters for testing the abilities of the applicants, and that they will then make quite absurd public statements about the abilities of applicants based on what can only be considered to be research results at best.
The active role is necessary; for full validity the parameters of experiments have to be set up in advance. But I agree that they should agree on a criterion which determines āfailure to proveā rather than āfailure to have the powersā.
Randi is conning people into believing that he is a serious investigator of the supernatural, when in fact, he is not.
Well, I donāt think he is a serious investigator of the supernatural either. Iām not sure he claims to be. Heās a serious debunker. Again, whether you think he is good or bad depends on what you think of the underlying movement, beliefs and values. And I think your own mind is just as made-up on the matter as his is.
Hi Neil,
Absolutely. In fact there is a book called Living on Light written by a lovely lady whose name I can never spell. Something like āJasmuheenā. She lived on water for 6 months at one point. She describes in the book the process that she went through in her final stages of weaning herself off food, and she describes exactly what you mention here. She spent about a month I believe in solitude and in silence, even without a TV! She did read some books but she said it was O.K. if they were light romantic novels or spiritual books. She spoke very little during that time and only saw one person who was keeping an eye on her.
I agree with you that television is very draining of our energy. I havenāt watched TV for about 18 years now and my life is much better than it was then.
Christi
It is an insidious breakthru. The kind that just slowly sneaks up on you.
Thanks, Katrine. My jealously is of a rather superficial and fleeting nature. It doesnāt have a negative effect on me. I am fairly content. Life is pretty balanced right now.
I know that it is just a matter of time and practice before my nervous system becomes active at a higher level like yours. It is great for me to be able to read your posts and other posts here.
They do inspire me.
No need to apologize.
Really, I am happy for you and Christi and Jim and others and hope to join the ranks of people who experience expanded states of consciousness on a regular basis.
Right now, the just simple habit of letting go is very pleasurable to me. The complete unimportance of thoughts that are of such importance, to see thru this illusion completely, to see them as thoughts and nothing more, having no reality, and returning to the mantra, has its own peculiar simple pleasure.
The silent recognition of this fact, every time it happens, that I like. And when I reflect on it, I can see progress in this ability. I am getting better and better at āon the spotā āfrom the hipā letting go of my holding on.
I think that it is working with the mantra during meditation that is developing this ability. And Yoganiās Self Inquiry book helped a lot too.
But still along ways to go. Which is fine.
Aw shucks, maāam, twernāt nothinā.
Yes, and my attention will be focusd on less material things like you, all in good time. Again, I am really happy for you. Not jealous. How great to be experiencing the fruits of yoga practice.
Thanks, Katrine.
Life is good. Best, yb.
Maybe some of the reason why abilities are unable to be proven in a test situation is related to that quantum video where electons behave differently when observed.
VIL
Hi David
I donāt think Randiās mind is made up at all. I donāt see how it can be. If he is a rational man, and he goes to very great lengths to make people believe that he is, he must realize that, on the question of whether or not there are humans who possess supernatural powers, he simply doesnāt have the evidence to make a decision one way or the other. He does not himself possess such powers, he has not been presented with evidence that would prove to him the existence of such powers, and he has not seen any evidence to suppose that nobody on earth possesses such powers.
Making a statement such as āI have not yet seen a black swan, therefore black swans do not existā would be quite irrational, and presumably someone as super-rational as Randi would never do such a thing. He must realize that he is in a position of pure ignorance, and will remain in that state until he has any evidence to make a decision about such things one way or another. He may claim publicly that this is not the case, but he must know in his heart that it is.
As for myself, my mind is always changing according to the nature of mind. It is never fixed on one thing, even for an instant, and it has no relationship to me at all, no more than my car, my life or my dream.
Christi
āA stuck mind is the only death- death by tortureā. Byron Katie
I feel a faint impulse to defend Randi a little more here. But then I decided, heck, is he going to pay me to do it? Iāve done enough and until he shows up and cuts me a check, Iām going to have to let it slide. Thatās me being rational.
This thread seems to have died off. I want to resurrect it.
About Randi, i donāt think you understand the words being used here. The quote from the newspaper man or website proved that Randi was inadequately quoted and it was out of context.
There are so many things i could say about this but the bottom line is that there is no reason why Randi has never proved a psychic ability or paranormal miraculous feat when there are so many people on this planet. Do you really believe that a person with āsiddhisā wouldnāt take this test? Everyone is different. You seem to be speaking only for yourself when you assume that every single person with siddhis wouldnāt take this challenge.
And the posts about Sai Baba and other āmagiciansā was completely ignored.
Paramahansa Yogananda used parlor tricks. I know this for a fact because i know someone that lived with him and is still alive. Aside from this the ātricksā Yogananda used at his early lectures are classical magic tricks. Why would people considered to be āavatarsā need to do magic tricks?
I happen to think that having visions and so on is not really much of anything but dream states. The rest is hypnosis and the placebo effect, especially in physical healing.
Let me ask you something, if someone offered you a billion dollars to prove you could do something supernatural, why wouldnāt you agree? Saying that the clause in the Randi test states that the person must agree to declare their failure is actually very scientific indeed! Randi has been doing all this for decades and has never found anything. In fact, a documentary just went out on UK TV involving a psychic ābaby mind readerā being tested by Randi and he failed, but he insists that his ability is real. He agreed to the test and he failed.
Nobody can live off of light. Light is all kinds of things, gas, nuclear, electricity, magnetism. But life on earth is a load of things coming together as a product of light, and it is the combination of things concentrated to one goal or point that makes life appear on earth, it is a combination of all other elements. So oxygen, for example, is not the same thing as light, but it is neccesary for the body to survive. ANd oxygen comes from plants, which get their sustenance from light. Bypassing oxygen to live off of light is simply just a delusion in thought.
I am sorry this sounds so negative, but i donāt really know how else to put it.
Iām glad you revived this thread. When I started it I didnāt think many people would be that interested. In fact I wondered if anyone else would post at all. And now lookā¦ we are on page 6!
I think you pointed to an interesting fact in the part I quoted from above. We already all do live on light, just transformed in different ways. And in fact we directly absorb sunlight through our skins, and become sick without it. So it is a thread that is relevant to all of us in some ways.
The interesting thing for me is that there are different kinds of light, and I believe there is something which is as yet unknown in science, which is spiritual light. Since I started this thread my breathing has become ecstatic. So not only do I live with an ecstatic body, but I breathe in ecstasy with every breath. I believe I am breathing prana (light), along with air which is causing the ecstatic sensation.
Christi
Just to mentionā¦ most people (humans) who I have heard of who live on light do in fact still breathe. They donāt see the fact of their still breathing as especially contradictory to the fact that they do not eat, and derive their primary nutrition to rebuild the cells of the body, directly from divine light (or sunlight in some cases).
The only beings I have met who do not eat or drink or breathe are angels. And they live on light and love which they bathe in daily during their prayers. I have watched them doing this and it is absolutely incredible.
Christi
Hi Christi,
The expansion of ecstasy you describe above seems to be coming along nicely, wondering if you practice tantra at all?
From previous posts of yours, I know you have at least one daughter so clearly not tantra all the timeā¦ Feel free not to answer if you feel itās too personal, just wondering how you have found your ecstasy expansion to progress in relation to pre-orgasmic or orgasmic sex?
I have two daughters . And yes I do practice Tantra, and have done on and off for about 20 years.
It is definately a help on the path and has helped to expand my nerve channels so that they can conduct the energy to the higher centres. I think anyone who is really serious about making progress in yoga either has to be celibate, or has to practice Tantra. Somehow the energy of the sexual essences has to be maintained in the body, and then taken upwards.
Christi
This may seem like a really silly question to you all, but I still need to ask. I understand that male ejaculate, according to yoga practices, are meant to not be released and are meant to be reabsorbed into the system and gradually start working itās way up the spine. But what is considered the female āsexual essenceā? Are males the only ones that need to draw the semen up the spine and females have a different process that needs to occur? If not, then what is the female sexual essence that has to be drawn upwards? Sorry if this is a stupid question and the answer is right out in the open and I am just too dumb to be able to find it.
In Love,
CarsonZi
Hi Carson,
Itās not that widely known, but women can and do ejaculate during orgasm. Women have a prostrate gland which can release sexual fluids.
There was a great article in a newspaper a few years ago by a female writer in the UK, who was saying how shocked she was at the increase in the number of women who were admitting that they faked orgasm during sex with their partners. Her response was: āhow can a woman fake an orgasm, an orgasm is not a noise, it is an emmission!ā
Christi
Haha,
Thanks Christiā¦I actually DO know a fair bit about female ejaculation, but I did not think about the fact that the fluid released is probably what should be going upwards. This must mean that it is ?easier? for women to complete the task of drawing the sexual essences up into the spine as it is much harder for a female to have an outward ejaculation then it is for a man right? And I thought that only SOME women have the capability for outward ejaculation. I didnāt realize that EVERY woman has this ability. Shows how much I know!!
In Love,
CarsonZi
P.S. Isnāt there much more then just one type of female orgasm? I know for a fact that at least some women can have orgasms without fluid, while at the same time the same woman can be capable of having outward ejaculations. My wife is like this so I can guarantee that there is more then one type of orgasm for a girl. Are all types of orgasms detrimental to the females spiritual energy conservation attempts or is just the outward ejaculation that is detrimental? Thanks for your clarifications!
In Love,
CarsonZi
Well, I canāt speak from personal experience here as I am male, but I believe you are right in saying that it is harder for a woman to ejaculate during orgasm than it is for a man. I believe you are also right in saying that not all women exerience ejaculation during orgasm and that women experience different kinds of orgasm.
In fact, us men are capable of experiencing different kinds of orgasm too, we are capable of experiencing both genital based orgasm and whole body orgasms just as women are. And in fact (believe it or not) men are also capable of experiencing orgasm without ejaculation. This happens when the process of natural vajroli becomes so strong that the semen is drawn up into the bladder instead of flowing out of the penis during orgasm. I can tell you from my own experience that for a man, orgasm without ejaculation (with no blocking involved) does not deplete the energy of the body. I imagine the same is true for a woman but I have never had this clarified.
It is not the sexual fluids themselves that are re-directed up the spine, but the sexual energy. The sexual fluid is re-directed up into the bladder, and from there up through the GI tract to the stomach.
This is not made clear in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika. It is one of the few ancient yogic texts which does refer to the process of Yoga in women, but it is not too helpful in this regard. The word ārajasā is used to refer to all female sexual fluids. So rajas seems to refer to the fluids that are released during sex in the vigina for lubrication, to the fluids of female ejaculation, and to menstral blood and to the egg released during menses. It does not make it clear which of these needs to be preserved, or how exactly it is to be done.
Letās hope some female yogis are reading along here who can offer us greater clarification on which fluids they need to preserve in order to preserve their sexual energy.
Christi
Hi Christi,
Yeah I know this is a bit of wierd chat for two guys to have, but I am still curious because I practice tantra with my wife. Thanks for conversing.
I do understand that there are different types of orgasms even for men, and actually the last time I did have an orgasm nothing came out, so there is proof for natural vajroli. And I agree that in that specific instance no energy was lost, and in fact I probably had an INCREASE in energy afterwards. On a side note, how are me and my wife supposed to get pregnant if I canāt ejaculate? haha.
Iām sure that this experience wonāt be indicative of every time we have sex.(hopefully not! We DO want to have a child)
You said āIt is not the sexual fluids themselves that are re-directed up the spine, but the sexual energy. The sexual fluid is re-directed up into the bladder, and from there up through the GI tract to the stomach.ā I understood this and I just mispoke. I DID say though that it was the sexual ESSENCES (I meant energy when I said this) though and not sexual fluid. Although some texts, (donāt have a reference right this minute, sorry) I have read state that the sexual fliuds ARE in fact drawn eventually into the cerebrospinal fluid and eventually bathe the brain in extra neuro transmitters because of this. I will try to find the reference I am referring to later and post it so you can see where I got this. In my opinion though, that doesnāt make a lot of sense as I canāt see how the sexual fluids could actually make it into the cerebrospinal fluid. It would have to get there via osmosis from the bladder or something. Not probable.
āLetās hope some female yogis are reading along here who can offer us greater clarification on which fluids they need to preserve in order to preserve their sexual energy.ā
Yes lets hope.
Thanks again,
In Love,
CarsonZi
Yes, I have seen this too, but I believe it is a mistake. Kundalini energy is drawn up the spine and into the brain from the root chakra. The sexual essences are drawn up into the stomach, and from there they are transmuted into an etheric substance called soma and are drawn up into the brain where they do have an effect on the higher centres (especially the crown). So it is easy to see where the mistake came from.
I thought men talk about women and sex all the time. Nothing wierd about that!
No worries there! When you want to ejaculate I think you will find that you always can, itās just a case of directing the energy with your mind.
Christi
I too want you to enjoy yourselfā¦not feel ālackingā. Reading my response to you, I see that when I say the physical experiences are āof no importanceāā¦I then automatically sort of brush off parts of your experience as being āunimportantā. I apologize - that is not what I want to do! Thanks for responding like you did, Yogibear. I will take it to heart and hopefully learn from it.
Feel free not to answer if you feel itās too personal, just wondering how you have found your ecstasy expansion to progress in relation to pre-orgasmic or orgasmic sex?