I can only speak from my limited experience. But it is nevertheless my experience that ecstatic bliss still is an experience of the senses. Albeit a very refined one…and with very expanded senses. And so in my experience it is still possible to “land” here.
It seems to me that defining divine love can never be separate from the one who defines it. It usually speaks about the speakers experience. In my eyes everything is an expression of divine love. And yet I cannot say one thing about divine love that would not be more of me than it itself. Simply because my understanding is limited.
But I do know one thing: I am here to express my utmost potential at any moment. And when I do, I am peaceful and there is clear seeing. Enough seeing to be able to move on when life does it. Then, more importantly, : I am available for life. It is already living us, but whenever I stop having things my own way and continue to listen to that small voice inside (the inner guru) - then I experience that the essence of life is about a deeper and deeper seeing. This seeing is far from sterile, but it is also not ecstatic. It is simply clear and still. And very potent. Like a catalyst.
Awakening of energy comes with the territory of Being. And so it is definitely a fact that an energetic fire changes (opens) the nervous system over time. But the speed and intensity of this fire varies greatly with every human being, and that needs to be remembered when speaking of it as an absolute. Otherwise we will continue to hanker after what we do not experience, may not even need to experience, in order to be where we actually are. Or we will land in states where it is not constructive to land.
In my experience, this clarity does not rest in - or on - ecstatic bliss, the strength of it comes from being totally collected. When the look is not invested in sustaining any sensual feeling, no matter how refined it is, no matter how loving, no matter how sublime it is felt to be, then all the power goes into the look and it becomes extremely concentrated - like a lazer. This is what the message of the looking is confirming to me again and again - that when I am receiving - but not resting on - whatever can be felt (however subtle it is, however sublime it is) - then all is available for the looking itself. The love does not need my help. It functions very well without me looking at it. It is everything else that may need a helping hand. And that includes my own habitual patterns. It also confirms that I cannot listen to the fear of living. Truly living is for me to not avoid anything that life brings before me. Not to my preferences, but to what is actually needed. To engage deeply in every thing. Uncushioned if I can bear it. So that it can be known from the inside out. For years I engaged in my preferences more often than not. It may not be like that now, but there is still much more wisdom to be extracted within me. And I must be true to the dynamic of that. This is how my heart belongs to that which is unfathomable. This is what feels true to me when it comes to honoring this deep mystery that life is.
To fully understand something is a very challenging endeavour, because it cannot be forced to fit any spiritual system. It is simply listening to life and hope that there is enough courage to obey what is heard. Innerly and outwardly letting go of all the “good stuff”. Every system speaks of the good stuff as an end result. But in my experience it is possible to go astray in the good as well as the so called bad. It all depends on where we are - what our potential is at all times. That means that a birch must be a birch. Not a pine. It also means that both the birch and the pine are equal in their divinity. They are both needed. I have lots more to experience and understand and so I must keep moving.
So for me - balance is quiet. This is where I can hear. In letting go of the ecstatic bliss as a place to be for myself something else is being shown to me. To see clearly is much more constructive for what I am here to do. It has made it very clear to me that I used the ecstatic bliss to be in my own version of what was truly needed for everyone else. That version was not however built on my experience alone. It was built on what I had heard and what I wanted to believe. The attachment to the bliss was a habit of mine. It was very hard to break.
Clarity and calm is very useful. Because it results in truly helpful actions. And nobody focuses on the bringer of the message. It is naturally brought in such a way that what people recognize and remember are themselves, not whatever it is that is pointing. It does not have to be named in any way. It functions naturally. With no bravado. And to me that means that peeling potatoes, driving a car, being a politician, etc is as much an expression of divine love as healing a sick or writing a beautiful poem or making pieces of art or giving inspiring talks about awakening. Of course it also means that being in ecstatic bliss is exactly right for someone else. But it is not for me now. And I cannot speak…as a generalism… from a perspective that is not mine, it is as simple as that.
I also find that most people have difficulty defining the difference between ecstacy and ecstatic bliss. I know I did. It takes years for most before the ecstacy refines to the degree that it is truly known as ecstatic bliss. So it is good to speak these things out loud from any perspective. It can only enhance our general understanding when it is openly discussed, looked at understood from all angles.
Much love to you Christi
When you let go of yourself, fully, into the mystery, all that remains is ecstatic bliss, divine love and unity. Then there is no more “you” in the process. There is no more “one person’s perspective” or “another’s perspective”. All of that becomes irrelevant when you surrender fully. It is seen to be just another aspect of the contracted sense of self. Put simply, divine love is what is when you are not. It isn’t possible to be attached to because it is the fruit of non-attachment, of letting go and of surrender. It is not a sensory experience, it is what you are when you let go of sensory experience. It is the culmination of the whole process of the movement beyond “my, me, mine, and I”.
Divine love is what is when you see that you have nothing more to experience, and nothing more to understand. Nothing at all. That whole process of seeking experience and of seeking understanding is what keeps us contracted, and keeps us from experiencing ecstasy in every moment. And it is what keeps us from experiencing love in every moment.
It doesn’t matter how quiet you are, when that process is continuing, the process of seeking experience and understanding, the process of “keeping moving”, all of that creates a contraction. What happens when we stop moving, and are still? In that stillness, ecstasy comes up like a fountain. Boundaries melt around us like snow in the spring and love is everywhere. It doesn’t need to be expressed in any way, it simply is. It is still and moving at the same time. Empty and full at the same time. We don’t need to do anything to make it come, other than to get out of the way.
Dear Christi.
We can all speak from our level of understanding. God knows I have done enough of speaking from where I am supposed to be according to a standard.
I have no problems with your understanding, what you experience is very valid for you. But I have to act and speak from where I am. That is the whole point. It is here that the lamp is lit, not over there somewhere. So far all is well with that here.
I can only repeat that this is not my experience. On the contrary - another’s perspective becomes very relevant. More so than ever. It is taken into consideration when interacting with that being.
In my experience unity - or wholeness which is a much better word for me to use - can be deeply experienced without bathing in ecstatic bliss.
It is my experience that it is possible to be attached to ecstatic bliss. It has been very helpful for me to find this out.
For me, to surrender fully, means to surrender to what - through direct experience - is known to be true inside myself. It is unquestionable. There is no doubt in this for me. Only the consequences that follows when acting on it or not. It is not helpful to be too concerned about “the disappearance of the you”. That too is a wanting. When that wanting overshadows what is actually here to see and act on, then there is no balance. What I am concerned about therefore, is living truthfully (according to the heart). Being truthful to what I actually know. To not ignore this. Because it is from here everything else matures. This certainty is unshakeable and it is definitely a type of understanding. Not as in knowing how to define divine love, but as in surrendering to the heart where its silent voice is heard. That is also a message of love and brings its own fruit. It also takes care of the falling away of the you.
I cannot define divine love with any words I know. Not ecstatic bliss, not anything. What can I say about it that it itself is not already saying in so many different ways? Nothing.
I must take into consideration that life wants me here for reasons I do not know. It may involve not losing a you. I may not want to hear that, but surrender is surrender to what life wants at any moment. For me right now that involves not falling into ecstatic bliss. It does not mean less unity. On the contrary. It is very quiet when I do what I must instead of what I may want at any time.
I cannot define divine love. I can only honor it to the best of my ability, It is what I do with my limited understanding that counts for me. As long as life wants me to operate through this body on this earth there will be experience. And hopefully the essence of wisdom extracted from that experience will benefit more than myself. To be of use no matter whom I am with is deeply meaningful. It is also peaceful.
Yes. And that fountain is not for me to have anymore. That is all. I do not constantly need to taste ecstatic bliss in order to listen. Boundaries are dissolving faster here the way it is now. Again - this is my experience. Yours may me different. I respect that.
Much love Christi
You cannot know what is to come around the next corner. Also you cannot know what it is that life has planned for you (if anything). As surrender deepens, things change. Things that we once thought were unquestionable, we may start to question.
As we practice, and silence and stillness are developed, the idea of a separate self falls away, spontaneously. This is the idea of a “you” that life has plans for in some way. This falling away is not a desire, but simply a result of seeing through the whole process of identification.
This is the surrender that I am talking about. Not a desire, but a falling away of desires. I am not saying that it is not possible to become attached to ecstasy, it is possible to become attached to anything. But when there is surrender, even that attachment is released. The process of surrender is the releasing of attachments.
What I am saying is that the experience of true surrender is divine love and is ecstatic bliss. They are one and the same. If it is not your experience yet, then it may well be one day. But you should not rule it out as a possibility in the meantime, either for yourself or for anyone else. It has been the experience of tens of thousands of yogis over several thousand years.
As always, the Sufis can describe it better than me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0b8luvuLy8
Much love to you too.
Dear Katrine,
My gratitude is boundless for the words you wrote. How magnificent. How pristine. How full of true understanding. Your being is quiet, powerful and delicately beautiful to the sight.
You understand full well that the unfolding of the divine requires little death after little death; not just in big flashy experiences, but in each moment throughout the day.
True ecstasy has nothing to do with a feeling. True discernment has nothing to do with thinking. True service has nothing to do with planning.
What nearly every human who has ever lived might call ‘ecstatic conductivity’ or ‘Kundalini’ is a mere throw-away tool of the Divine. The nervous system is realigned so that the Self may know itself in time and space. It is indeed the golden shackle of all golden shackles, that might trap the beautiful essence of the Self for endless ages.
It is the job of the Mother to offer up the Divine Child to the Father, so that there may be nonstop communion that does not depend upon the senses, or ‘energies’ or anything from the gross material world.
This; the wordless communion without limit or measure; THIS is the end result of Yoga; the place beyond all striving; the clear and endless sea which drives the froth of the lower world known as matter and time.
And yet Katrine, you and I and everyone, we are such frail creatures in this world and require endless grace. We are nothing by ourselves. We only have significance and relevance as part of the whole community, both the visible and the not so visible.
Thank you Sister.
Kev
This is how I see it too. But in order to release something there must be a willingness to see it. To be faced with it. What remains hidden will not be released in my experience.
Yes.
But the dynamic of this we do not have to question.
Much love Christi
Yes, first there has to be the willingness to see it. That is one important thing. Then there has to be the willingness to surrender, that is the second important thing.
Part of the process of surrender is realizing that you will never be of use to anyone, ever again. This too has to be seen, at let go of. As long as you are “of use to someone”, there is a separation created between you and the other. This separation is the creation of duality and there is a barrier to love.
This process of letting go of all identification, of “falling into the mystery” continues until nothing remains other than the mystery itself. The mystery itself is overflowing with joy and is the essence of love.
Part of the process of surrender is realizing that you will never be of use to anyone, ever again. This too has to be seen, at let go of. As long as you are “of use to someone”, there is a separation created between you and the other. This separation is the creation of duality and there is a barrier to love.
This process of letting go of all identification, of “falling into the mystery” continues until nothing remains other than the mystery itself. The mystery itself is overflowing with joy and is the essence of love.
The Sages wrestled with this too. If there is no duality, then why must loving people act as if there is duality?
If one turns everything into a formless mush with the mind, one loses their way. If one turns everything into a vast dualistic map, one loses their way.
The way of spirit is like quantum mechanics; many things both are and are not simultaneously. The spirit cannot be pinned down and converted into 'mush' or 'not mush'.
If we say "oh that person is part of the One"; it is a mistake to use discernment. I'll just let them starve and lay dying in the street because they too are God, we lose our way.
Yes, anything of form is scenery. Temporary. Not to be confused with
the undifferentiated. But it is the very stuff of life, to willingly
be a representative of the formless in the worlds of form.
In that role, one must let themselves be covered with 'poop'; one must allow themselves to enter into conversations that might never bear fruit, for years or hundreds of years.
I do not despise form nor using discernment; form is the paintbrush
upon the canvas of the divine; without both the paintbrush and the canvas (the formless) there would be no visible outpouring of love.
Hiding in formlessness is in fact the avoidance of 1/2 of ones true Self.
All this said, you are perfectly correct about giving up on the idea
of ever helping anyone, ever again. This is a very deep truth you
have latched onto. One that kicked my ass for a long time.
The ego has no power to help anyone in a lasting way.
Only the 'mysterious', to use your word, has the power to act
as a conduit of grace.
Thank you for sharing your path and your love with us.
Kev
I’m nowhere near as advanced as you all are, but for me, at this point in my journey, the process of surrender is usually a releasing INTO attachments not a releasing OF attachments. There is a subtle difference for me here.
For me, surrender often is not a letting go of attachments, at least not at this time. For me, surrender is letting go of trying to change anything, including the stuff I’m attached to. For me, this is I interpret the “seeing” I believe Katrine is talking about. I can’t seem to surrender to anything. All I can do is become aware of what is actually happening, then whatever happens is what happens. If there is a releasing of attachments then that is what happens, but that, for me, is rare. Usually there is just a seeing of the attachment and the surrender is just a letting go of trying to change that which is seen. Whenever I try to change anything there is only more struggle and tension. When I see, and accept what I see without judgement or trying to change it, that to me is surrender… even without the dropping of anything. Stuff will either drop or it won’t… really has nothing to do with “me.” All I can really hope for is to see what is actually here and surrender to that (with no expectation of releasing or changing anything).
Not sure if I’ve been able to properly explain the subtle difference I see between releasing of attachments and releasing into attachments, but there it is… my best attempt.
Love!
Carson
Hi Carson,
Yes, I can follow what you are saying. That surrendering attachments is one thing and seeing that we have attachments but surrendering to the fact of that is another thing but both are forms of surrender.
Yes, simply using the mind to try and impose a change on the mind just creates a battle. That is why Katrine and I are talking about “seeing” and “surrendering”. When something is clearly seen, then it is dropped. It is like something is burning your hand, and you look down and see you are holding a burning stick. So you drop it. There is no battle or struggle, just the dropping of the stick.
That is easy to do with a burning stick, because you can look at it, but most of our troubles are not so obvious, because they are rooted in the mind. So we need silence and stillness to see them clearly, and detachment. In silence and stillness they show up pretty clearly because the troubles caused by identification with the mind-stuff are almost always noisy and moving.
So the process of surrender is the process of the cultivation of silence, and then, from within silence, self-inquiry. We need to ask: “what is this?”, “what am I doing with it?” and “does it burn?”. Every process of identification with the body or the content of the mind, at some point, burns. Then the same thing happens just like seeing the burning stick in your hand, you drop it.
The more things that are dropped, the more space there is for other things such as joy, euphoria, laughter, peace and love. These things are the natural state of the human condition and naturally bubble up when the tight grip of identification is gradually released. They don’t have to be created using effort. They are always there like the sky behind the clouds. It is a process which takes time, but there is a point where one can see how simple and beautiful the process is, and it becomes much easier from there on in.
In Sanskrit there is a word “satchidananda” which means “existence consciousness bliss”. It refers to the state of one who is free from all attachment. All that remains is consciousness, existence (literally: that which is), and bliss.
Katrine, Kevincann, /
Being of use, is not the same as being of use to anyone. It is rather, expressing in this moment; creativity; and flow.
The One supports the One.
Carson, your releasing into attachments IS releasing of attachments.
Can you release into the ecstatic energy in the legs?
Namaste
I’m nowhere near as advanced as you all are, but for me, at this point in my journey, the process of surrender is usually a releasing INTO attachments not a releasing OF attachments. There is a subtle difference for me here.
For me, surrender often is not a letting go of attachments, at least not at this time. For me, surrender is letting go of trying to change anything, including the stuff I’m attached to. For me, this is I interpret the “seeing” I believe Katrine is talking about. I can’t seem to surrender to anything. All I can do is become aware of what is actually happening, then whatever happens is what happens. If there is a releasing of attachments then that is what happens, but that, for me, is rare. Usually there is just a seeing of the attachment and the surrender is just a letting go of trying to change that which is seen. Whenever I try to change anything there is only more struggle and tension. When I see, and accept what I see without judgement or trying to change it, that to me is surrender… even without the dropping of anything. Stuff will either drop or it won’t… really has nothing to do with “me.” All I can really hope for is to see what is actually here and surrender to that (with no expectation of releasing or changing anything).
Not sure if I’ve been able to properly explain the subtle difference I see between releasing of attachments and releasing into attachments, but there it is… my best attempt.
Love!
Carson
Dear Carson,
You may not know it, but you are a very important person for me. Back a year and some ago when I first stumbled to AYP, I was a horses ass to you. I didn't mean to be, but I was overwhelmed by a number of things at the time. I'm unaccustomed being around people and showing them my love and my ishta to walk with them until time wears itself out. I'm a big dope that jumps on people like a big wet dog. And you were gracious to me, you gave me a tremendous gift. I'm very grateful to you. Do not sell yourself short.
You are in fact a glorious being, with much wonderment and grace coming your way.
Your insight is in fact quite astute.
As a talented AYP instructor I know you know this one thing; perhaps
you have stopped pondering it for a moment;
You, all that you are Carson, within the worlds of form, are a sensory
object. Carson just the way you are. You are a sensory object. Within
the silience which is within you, there is the silent witness and
there is Carson, who is a sensory object, and all other sensory
objects.
Being comfortable in your own skin, even when the skin isn't
necessarily lustrous, WHILE walking with the Self, the silent
witness, is our calling.
Now might someday our outer selves so shine that we are like
little Buddhas of compassion and wisdom? Maybe. Maybe not.
It's NOT IMPORTANT. Nobody is keeping score.
The One loves beat up old pound puppies with their left ear torn
off (and I should know.. I'm ear-less), as much as Buddhas.
You are not JUST your impediments that cause you pain. That is just
one percent of you, right now. Don't sweat it bro.
Have faith. I have utmost faith in you and your path.
And please get over this 'not as advanced crap' you big doofus.
The Self causes the flows to go where they will, lifting up part of
Itself on the One's schedule, then moving it down. None of us can take
any credit for anything whatsoever. You've almost certainly carried me
on your back for a thousand miles in another world, you big doofus.
There is no such thing as one is greater than another.
Kev
Well perhaps I’ve just never seen (much) clearly then. (And I’m not saying that facetiously… I realize that this is a very real possibility). Either way, I feel like sharing an example to better illustrate what I’m trying to say.
I have many personal tendencies that could easily be labeled as attachments. I have “seen” that I have attachments to things like; clarity, sensual pleasure (including ecstatic energy flows), altered/expanded states of consciousness, ideas about awakening/enlightenment etc etc etc… I have seen these attachments, and to me, it seems pretty “clear.” But the seeing of these (particular) attachments has not resulted in the dropping or releasing of them. But, there has been a surrendering to the reality that there are these attachments and it’s been noticed that life is lived in a much more relaxed and enjoyable state (for the most part) having surrendered to these tendencies.
And see, this, is where the troubles with ecstatic energy come in. It can be very tricky this ecstatic energy thing (at least for me). The attachment to the ecstasy can be very subtle and also very easy to “brush off” and not look directly at. At least that is my experience. I have a feeling I’m not the only one.
Who drops it? Hahaha, just being an ass. But in all seriousness, this is where it all dissolves for me. As soon as I see myself “choosing to drop” (or trying to drop) something, it becomes readily apparent that this is an ego ploy and I’m trying to solve mental problems with the mind. As soon as that is seen the desire to drop anything is dropped and all goes silent.
Something I have come to realize recently is that there is a personal tendency for me to want to align my own personal experience up with those who I have put on a pedestal (meaning those who I see as “more awake/clear” than I am). What I’ve come to realize is that no matter who or how often others tell me “this is what enlightenment is like” it doesn’t make any difference. My experience is my experience, my path is my path. I cannot walk in another’s footsteps and no one can walk my journey for me. So you, or Katrine or Yogani or anyone can proclaim that “ecstatic bliss is the end-game of yoga” (or anything else) all they want… but that is going to have to be verified by me (for me), through personal experience. Having someone else tell me “the Truth” doesn’t have me knowing it through personal experience. And I’ve found that trying to fit my personal experience into someone else’s framework only results in frustration, detours and delays in coming to a deeper and clearer understanding of Truth for myself. I can only ever live from where I am… I can’t live according to someone else’s “Truth.” So, until I come to know the Truth that “ecstasy is the end game of yoga” for myself, I’m just going to have to reserve judgement until then… until I come to “the end.”
Thanks again for sharing your clarity and perspective with me.
Love!
Carson
Well perhaps I’ve just never seen (much) clearly then. (And I’m not saying that facetiously… I realize that this is a very real possibility). Either way, I feel like sharing an example to better illustrate what I’m trying to say.
I have many personal tendencies that could easily be labeled as attachments. I have “seen” that I have attachments to things like; clarity, sensual pleasure (including ecstatic energy flows), altered/expanded states of consciousness, ideas about awakening/enlightenment etc etc etc… I have seen these attachments, and to me, it seems pretty “clear.” But the seeing of these (particular) attachments has not resulted in the dropping or releasing of them. But, there has been a surrendering to the reality that there are these attachments and it’s been noticed that life is lived in a much more relaxed and enjoyable state (for the most part) having surrendered to these tendencies.
And see, this, is where the troubles with ecstatic energy come in. It can be very tricky this ecstatic energy thing (at least for me). The attachment to the ecstasy can be very subtle and also very easy to “brush off” and not look directly at. At least that is my experience. I have a feeling I’m not the only one.
Who drops it? Hahaha, just being an ass. But in all seriousness, this is where it all dissolves for me. As soon as I see myself “choosing to drop” (or trying to drop) something, it becomes readily apparent that this is an ego ploy and I’m trying to solve mental problems with the mind. As soon as that is seen the desire to drop anything is dropped and all goes silent.
Something I have come to realize recently is that there is a personal tendency for me to want to align my own personal experience up with those who I have put on a pedestal (meaning those who I see as “more awake/clear” than I am). What I’ve come to realize is that no matter who or how often others tell me “this is what enlightenment is like” it doesn’t make any difference. My experience is my experience, my path is my path. I cannot walk in another’s footsteps and no one can walk my journey for me. So you, or Katrine or Yogani or anyone can proclaim that “ecstatic bliss is the end-game of yoga” (or anything else) all they want… but that is going to have to be verified by me (for me), through personal experience. Having someone else tell me “the Truth” doesn’t have me knowing it through personal experience. And I’ve found that trying to fit my personal experience into someone else’s framework only results in frustration, detours and delays in coming to a deeper and clearer understanding of Truth for myself. I can only ever live from where I am… I can’t live according to someone else’s “Truth.” So, until I come to know the Truth that “ecstasy is the end game of yoga” for myself, I’m just going to have to reserve judgement until then… until I come to “the end.”
Thanks again for sharing your clarity and perspective with me.
Love!
Carson
Carson,
You are an honest man.
Let me tell you, spiritual seekers by the MILLIONS use their mirror neurons (you should read abou them; very educational) and copy another person's way. They copy Buddha. They copy Master Bigshotto-siddhius. They desire to be free from suffering, the suffering from being a prisoner of their own conditioned mind, so they try the standard human thing of copying SOMEONE ELSES conditioned mind!
But you are better than that. You want the real stuff for yourself.
I think that's wonderful.
You know what? I disagree with about 50% of everything ever written or said by anyone. You know why? They are just copying someone elses words who has had the genuine experience, and they got it second hand.
Not a lot of people are willing to face death every day and twice on sunday, as that what the spiritual path is about; the death of that which hinders.
Nearly everyone goes grasping afer God; or some set of beliefs which comforts them.
You USED to be that way, and now you are breaking free.
Carson, you are NOT stagnant in your practices. You are NOT having
problems. Man, I want to shake you! You are waking up!
Woot! Go Carson.
Namaste,
Kevin
Hmmm… maybe??? For me, I would think that if an attachment is released, then the attachment would be gone. Doesn’t seem to be the case (at least with the attachments I mentioned to Christi in my last reply to him) for me though. I can surrender to the fact that I have these particular attachments, but the attachments still exist. For example, I can relax around, and surrender to, the fact that I have an intense attachment to pleasurable sensory experiences, but that hasn’t changed the fact that I still am totally attached to pleasureable sensations. There is less suffering over this attachment now, but it’s still here.
Funny how things work… not long after opening the topic here the difficulties with the orgasmic energy in the legs has disappeared. Funny how just voicing a problem can be enough to dissolve it. I’ve found that most of the “problems” I experience (most, not all) tend to be very short lived. This seems to have been one of them.
Love!
Carson
It’s funny. In India there is such a different mentality. People just find a spiritual teacher and surrender at their feet. They do everything the teacher tells them to do without question, and they become enlightened. It is such a beautiful and simple process to watch. In the West it is a bit different. Everybody wants everything to be validated for them at every stage in the process or they won’t believe it. It is so tortuous by comparison.
But luckily it doesn’t matter too much. As long as you do the practices, meditate, cultivate silence and practice self-inquiry, everything will happen as it should. And you will get the validations when they come.
What we are talking about here, personal tendencies is a very deep subject in yoga. In Sanskrit there are two words for personal tendencies. The first is vasanas. These are surface tendencies, easy to let go of. The second are samskaras. These are deep rooted personal tendencies which are much more difficult to eradicate. Enlightenment is the process of eradicating all vasanas and samskaras. So it is a big deal and not something that happens overnight.
So if you are attached to the experience of ecstasy, that will continue until you see that the attachment is holding you back. Then it will be dropped. That does not mean you will never experience ecstasy again. The dissolving of samskaras is itself ecstatic. In fact through the letting go of the attachment to experiencing ecstasy there will be much more ecstasy, but in a purer and sweeter form. The ecstasy of love. But it may not come straight away, so you have to trust and have faith.
But this isn’t something you have to do, or even can do. It is something that happens naturally as the process of awakening unfolds. As the body is purified, as the mind comes to silence every day, as the heart opens more and more, then there is an increased seeing that any form of attachment will ultimately lead to suffering, no matter how subtle or refined that attachment is. And it is dropped, naturally, when the time is right.
Christi
Honestly, I don’t remember what was said, so truly, it’s all water under the bridge. I’m happy you are back here sharing with us and I’m enjoying reading your posts.
Yes. Everything that is “Carson” is a “sensory object.”
HA!
Yeah, there was some challenging “dark night of the soul” kind of stuff after having the ground ripped out from under me and having nowhere solid to stand, but I’m starting to relax into it now.
Lots of love to you man, glad you’re back.
Love!
Carson
P.S> Sorry if the above seems disjointed but I’ve been writing this at work and it’s taken me several hours because I keep getting interupted.
And I thought you just needed some magnesium supplements!
I haven’t got much experience under my belt but as it stands now if I have any mental dialog… like I shouldn’t be having/ enjoying this ecstasy because it is an attachment… I shouldn’t like this because it is an attachment etc. I just inquire into it. Where is the I that keeps annoying me with this talk of enlightenment/attachments etc etc.
That thought will most definitely come back again so I just inquire into it again. It’s like that whack a weasel game that I used to play and do miss (Oh dear, another attachment)!
Like Christi said: just keep practising and the rest will fall into place.
My major attachment at the moment is to be enlightened before I go completely bald because then I won’t be bothered. “Who is the “I” that is turning into a bald eagle and sports a bad looking combover?”
Woosa dude you are killing me.
Really.
LOL.
We are all a bunch of mutated chimps who will definitely die;
we have the universe waking up inside us, reminding us about
who we really are. Both at the same time!
(humans and chimps share 98.4% of their DNA. There are species
of birds who have more genetic variation in their own species!)
Now if that isn’t quite SILLY; if that doesn’t allow us to
laugh and be free I don’t know what does!
Cheetah getting a big buzz and waking up. Now that’s an image!
Oh and Woosa, to be serious for one moment; later yogas like
Kashmiri Saivism and of course Tantra get it right.
It’s perfectly ok to enjoy… almost whatever… there is NO
difference functionally with getting trapped by good sensations
as bad. Now we get trapped by bad sensations all the time and don’t
feel guilty about that. Don’t feel guilty about enjoying a good buzz!
When you enjoy it AND see the essence of it’s form; mere fluff
floating on the waters of the world behind the veil; then you have
your cake and realize it’s not a cake too! Woot! Zero calorie cake!
The more the silent witness wakes up; (yes, I know this sounds like heresy, but the silent witness has tunnel vision for a very long time); the more free one becomes. First the body becomes free,
then the mind follows. (at the first it is the conditioned mind/
ego which yearns, but this does open the door).
Kev
Hahaha, just being an ass. 
