Ecstatic energy in the legs

14. Kundalini - AYP Practice-Related
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It’s funny. In India there is such a different mentality. People just find a spiritual teacher and surrender at their feet. They do everything the teacher tells them to do without question, and they become enlightened. It is such a beautiful and simple process to watch. In the West it is a bit different. Everybody wants everything to be validated for them at every stage in the process or they won’t believe it. It is so tortuous by comparison. :grin:
But luckily it doesn’t matter too much. As long as you do the practices, meditate, cultivate silence and practice self-inquiry, everything will happen as it should. And you will get the validations when they come.
What we are talking about here, personal tendencies is a very deep subject in yoga. In Sanskrit there are two words for personal tendencies. The first is vasanas. These are surface tendencies, easy to let go of. The second are samskaras. These are deep rooted personal tendencies which are much more difficult to eradicate. Enlightenment is the process of eradicating all vasanas and samskaras. So it is a big deal and not something that happens overnight.
So if you are attached to the experience of ecstasy, that will continue until you see that the attachment is holding you back. Then it will be dropped. That does not mean you will never experience ecstasy again. The dissolving of samskaras is itself ecstatic. In fact through the letting go of the attachment to experiencing ecstasy there will be much more ecstasy, but in a purer and sweeter form. The ecstasy of love. But it may not come straight away, so you have to trust and have faith.
But this isn’t something you have to do, or even can do. It is something that happens naturally as the process of awakening unfolds. As the body is purified, as the mind comes to silence every day, as the heart opens more and more, then there is an increased seeing that any form of attachment will ultimately lead to suffering, no matter how subtle or refined that attachment is. And it is dropped, naturally, when the time is right.
Christi

Christi, I really wish we could fine tune our terminology about 'enlightenment', just like we need to fine tune our terminology about 'ecstasy'. People (and I'm targetting nobody) throw around the word 'enlightenment' so much and it makes me nauseaous, as that word has NO functional semantic content. NONE. Now this terminology makes sense to me for what it's worth; Asleep This is the state many apparent beings are in. It's not bad; it's the way it is at the beginning of every great cycle of expression or spanda in Sanskrit. Fitfully Asleep How people get this wrong is beyond me, but they tend to. The organic human 'awakening' is only a side effect. The target of evolution is not the human, but the 'passenger' within us; some might call this 'passenger' the 'soul'. That great temporary structure, which is mostly just some congestion in a 'nadi' streaming into and from matter. The 'soul' gets restless at a certain point and pauses in it's self-worship to start to see the 'world' around it. This is awakening. Illuminated When the 'lower' type of ecstatic conductivity is fully functional, then the 'soul' starts to glow brightly. This is the false light i've been discussing. I've watched various people going through this stage recently and it's wondrous and breathtaking. But this stage might last for millenia. The illuminated are often confused and go around starting religions and what not. 99% of all so-called spiritual masters are at this stage, and in fact this stage is the height of self-delusion. Starting to Awaken After the 'soul' gets tired of trying to be 'god' without God; it reaches a dark night of total despair. It realizes that it cannot become the splendid being it thinks it can by its own effort. It gets very morose. When this happens, the 'silent witness' stops working. I'd bet good money that various people are at this stage. This is a terible but wonderful stage. It means that one is nearing freedom. Starting to become Free The 'soul' lays down it's life and recognizes the Self as the true source of all radiance. The 'soul' functionally dies. Yes, dies. It is the SOUL which is the HINDERANCE. It is the SOUL which is the accumulation of gunk which keeps us prisoner. Liberation The 'soul' is no more; some bits of it reorganize into a new structure, slowly over time. You see true spiritual teachers construct a new 'vehicle for teaching and expression', to take the place of the 'soul' if they remain in the world afer liberation or if they come back into the great wheel of life even though they do not need to do so. This stage is not hypothetical, it is real. Enlightenment This is the hypothetic stage where one is beyond all the 'kalpas'. Where one is unchanging and so rooted in reality that flowers bloom with each step or what not. 'Enlightenment' is an honorarium. Enlightenment is the single word the ego loves the most. Please, lets use more specific language, which is not fodder for the ego. Isn't being FREE good enough? Isn't that what we yearn for? To be free of the cycles of birth and death, becuase there is no deluded soul to be caught up with soul games? Now, so that we can keep this in the AYP folder where it badly needs to stay, and not in 'alternaive systems', could someone expert in AYP lingo convert or partially convert the terms and phases listed above into AYP-speak? Thank you friend, Kevin
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Honestly, I don’t remember what was said, so truly, it’s all water under the bridge. I’m happy you are back here sharing with us and I’m enjoying reading your posts.

Yes. Everything that is “Carson” is a “sensory object.”

HA! :sunglasses:

Yeah, there was some challenging “dark night of the soul” kind of stuff after having the ground ripped out from under me and having nowhere solid to stand, but I’m starting to relax into it now. :wink:
Lots of love to you man, glad you’re back. :slight_smile:
Love!
Carson :+1:
P.S> Sorry if the above seems disjointed but I’ve been writing this at work and it’s taken me several hours because I keep getting interupted. :stuck_out_tongue:

Carson, I posted again in this thread, which sure has strayed far and wide hasn't it! LOL. Carson's leg energy causing all this activity! LOL. I think you will find what I posted extremely edifying. It's folks like you Carson, who I knew I loved, and felt a connection with, but with whom I felt like I was being a horses ass a year ago, which pushed me over the edge into something wonderful. Really, I owe you and Etherfish and a few others everything. I do really appreciate the warm welcome! While there is no hurting void within me any longer, I do enjoy kindness, love and friendship the same as anyone. It's all cake, but I'm a big fan of no-calorie cake! Love, Kev
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Hi Kevin,
The term “enlightenment” is defined in AYP in the main lessons. It is here:

“The ultimate destination is enlightenment. What is enlightenment? A state of balanced union between our two natures: pure bliss consciousness, and our sensory involvement on this physical earth. That is the definition of yoga, and the destination of all religion.” [Yogani]
That comes from lesson 35:
http://www.aypsite.org/35.html
So it is already pretty well defined. Yogani explains more about the process in that lesson. He also goes into more detail about enlightenment here:
http://www.aypsite.org/11.html
But enlightenment is not something that can be defined in human language because it is beyond language, and it cannot be understood by the mind because it is beyond the mind. This is why all definitions of enlightenment fall short of the mark. They can be pointers at best.
Christi

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Hi Carson et al,
Interesting fiction but I personally wouldn’t buy into the above. We are all equals with an equal amount to learn from one another. Each person has a unique way of looking at the world and when we are open to that and hear it, a greater understanding of the whole can be the result. And this is true for any topic when people share their thoughts and experiences with each other. Life isn’t just about yoga, spirituality, and experience doesn’t end with some mythical end state of yoga, maybe yoga ends, but there is an unlimited universe out there for the body mind to explore, experience, find balance in and enjoy.
I personally wouldn’t get so caught up in analyzing the details, unless a person really enjoys analyzing it of course. The path is unique for each person and what is true for one is not necessarily for another. True this is a yoga forum, but yoga comes with its own baggage and limited viewpoints like any other world.
Each spiritual path is unique, personally I would toss any ideas of ecstasy and bliss out the window and bring my attention instead to what is needed for this body mind (if anything) here and now and that is it. When this body mind is satisfied, then we can look up and around and notice where and how we can help out or play in the world. And go back and forth as needed. Helping out is of course optional but it feels pretty good.
As for being attached to ecstasy, in my experience life will sort this attachment out like it does any other attachment, with a good healthy dose of pain/ discomfort for over-doing. I’ve only learned this lesson a few thousand times over.
First step realize the absolute, you are none of it including not an I, me or self. You can know this but if you turn around and say something like “yeah but I am in such and such a state and this is the way it is or should be…” then guess what, you are still attached just more subtly then before. Keep going and watch the limited view-points dissolve one by one. Second step? Flowing with the ever-moving ever-changing river of life. Easier said then done, since there are some white-water rapids along the way. We gain balance some would call mastery with this flowing in each unchartered area we experience. We can still fall in, but we get back on that raft more quickly each time.

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What is of supreme value to some, is a stumbling block for others.
AYP is a finely-tuned system with specific goals built into it;
strangely enough even ‘truth’ can become a stumbling block;
I suppose that’s why so much that is obvious, clear and mandatory
to know to avoid much trouble never sees print. ‘Truth’ can be more
trouble than lack of knowledge, and it is in fact the ‘silent witness’
that one must learn from, not any external source.
It is my own karma that pushes me into action, as the world as a whole
has no more than 100 good years left in it, before much trouble comes
our way; the long term survival of the human race is somewhat dubious.
It is my personal wish that we all get off our collective ‘enlightened asses’
and stop fiddling while Rome is burning. But that is my karma.
And of course before we have something to give to others, we must
first let the Self give us the gift of Ourself. Then we may
profitably act.
Some people might think that i’m a rabble-rouser, that I may not be
as strong an AYP supporter as some. But this is not true. I see a
potential in AYP that I don’t see in any other exoteric group.
I’m hoping that AYP spreads like a weed across the Earth. As people
start to awaken en-masse, there needs to a support structure of
spiritual warriors to assist.
Oh; on the word karma; when one is blind and can’t see the wind,
the wind pushes one where they do not wish to go. But when one
sees the wind, then this willingly accepted pushing is no longer
called ‘karma’. It is called Love. Consciously perceived and accepted
karma is Divine Love in action. Of course one eventually sees
that the wind is not the wind; but no matter what you call it, it still blows :slight_smile:
When no difference is seen between your brothers and sisters ‘karma’
and your own, then you have in fact become free from ‘karma’. If you
live a billion billion lives, or never again, it is all the same;
there is no escaping Life.
Thank you for sharing those links.
Kev

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Kevin, Thankfully not a sage of the nether regions!
Carson,

  • Which explains why you are feeling unclear.
    Others here have already mentioned it, but our experience doesn’t always behave the way our thoughts would prefer. We can however, choose whether to follow the experience, or the thought.
    There are a some other things to consider:
    One useful rule of thumb: if an attachment fails to go after being seen, then it may well be part of your being, and therefore may never go.
    Then again, attachments are often linked to many different parts of our being, and releasing (into) an attachment may only release one of its many links. Over time through continued release, the rest will go. Some links go deep, and some are subtle. This is the essence of the Advaitin approach.
    We are complex beings, with complex attachments that are less black and white, than rainbow like, which I suspect, is why Buddha promoted approaching life along a middle way.
    Namaste
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  • Which explains why you are feeling unclear.
    Others here have already mentioned it, but our experience doesn’t always behave the way our thoughts would prefer. We can however, choose whether to follow the experience, or the thought.
    There are a some other things to consider:
    One useful rule of thumb: if an attachment fails to go after being seen, then it may well be part of your being, and therefore may never go.
    Then again, attachments are often linked to many different parts of our being, and releasing (into) an attachment may only release one of its many links. Over time through continued release, the rest will go. Some links go deep, and some are subtle. This is the essence of the Advaitin approach.
    We are complex beings, with complex attachments that are less black and white, than rainbow like, which I suspect, is why Buddha promoted approaching life along a middle way.
    Namaste
Well said. The seeds of prior actions, either our own or others which have infected us often run deep. "Karma" is not actually personal. Yes, there are fragments we grab from the flow and bolt into 'ourselves'; but a great deal of conditioning comes from society and like the thirsty sponges we are it soaks into us, whether we knowingly participate or not. For example, a major church was still saying that african-americans and indians don't have souls, so they can't go to heaven as late as the early 1900's. That sort of thinking is a stain upon all who lived at that time, and that stain remains to this day. It has never been 'processed'. Humans are just conduits. There truly is no such thing as 'personal'. It's our identifying with 'personal' which causes our suffering. You are funny too, oh hermit not of the netherbits. Kev
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Hi Christi,

I knew there was a reason I wasn’t born in India!!! :grin: Hahaha.
Seriously though, I moved out of my parents house at 14years old (and never looked back) simply because I have always had serious issues with surrendering to authority of any kind. I couldn’t deal with having someone tell me what time I had to come home by let alone deal with someone telling me exactly how to live my life in order to become enlightened. This is part of the reason why AYP appealed so much to me… a “self directed” approach to spiritual unfoldment is exactly what I’ve always needed.

I’m always had a tendency towards masochism. :sunglasses:

Well, the practices continue here to the extent that my physical/mental body can handle, but I’m of the bent that everything will happen as it should regardless of any conditions.
With regards to seeking validation this is what I was talking about earlier when mentioning that I have to walk my own path. I’m not allowed to validate “where I am” or “how I am travelling” based on others’ experiences anymore. This is what I was meaning when I said to Kevin that “the ground was ripped out from under me.” At a certain point something shifted and I was no longer “allowed” to use the ‘signposts’ of others paths as markers for my own. It is a solitary path here and trying to align it with anothers’ only feels like it leads me away from Truth not towards it. No more validation allowed and I’m learning to let go of the feelings of needing it as well.

Thank you for this explanation, this makes a lot of sense and has been corroborated by my own experience. Many of the “vasanas” that were here when I came to AYP are now gone, but many of the samskaras are still here. They are now known to be what they are (not ‘me’ but merely tendencies this body/mind has aquired over the years/lifetimes) but they have not (all) been let go of (yet). Luckily, this path has (slowly) started to increase the amount of patience I have and I’m (mostly) okay with allowing things to take the time they take.

I would add the word “eventually” in that last sentence somewhere, but other than that I can agree with you here. :slight_smile:

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience with me Christi.
Love,
Carson :+1:

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Hi Woosa,

Well, luckily I don’t care much about what “should” be. :wink: The reason this whole topic was started wasn’t because I felt I “shouldn’t be attached to the ecstasy” but because the ecstasy was so strong that it was pulling me into the astral realms while at work which is an environment where I really need to be present or else people can literally die. Luckily whatever was causing the overwhelming ecstatic surges has moved on, as have I (and this thread too for that matter!! :wink: ) and I haven’t been having this challenge over the past week or so.

Good thing that isn’t MY goal or I’d have already lost!! (I’m already bald. :clown_face: )

Don’t you know!?!?!? You can’t get enlightened when you sport a combover!! A combover is like the #1 obstacle to enlightenment!! :clown_face:
Love!
Carson :+1:

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LOL!
Without a sense of humor, my brains would have been blown out long ago. But thankfully, I can gladly report that my brains are fairly intact, and the notion of blowing them out is not appeasing at all. In fact, I received a head massage today, and my brain was spitting out very nice thoughts as the hands were stimulating the neural nodes.
This is completely irrelevant to the initial leg complaint of Carson, but that is precisely why I am posting it. :sunglasses:

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Hi Anthem,

:slight_smile: I think the only real “idea” I have regarding the ecstasy/bliss at this point is that it needs to be in balance with the rest of the system. And that’s not really an “idea” that’s more like a necessity with the current circumstances for me. But, then again, I’m always finding all sorts of uninvestigated ideas so there could still be lots of them with regards to ecstasy/bliss that need to be dropped, I just haven’t seen them yet. :wink:

I’ve been inquiring into this “attachment to ecstasy” thing over the past couple of days and I don’t think that I’m attached to “ecstasy”… I think I am attached to anything that causes pleasant sensory stimulation… and when one thing isn’t available to stimulate pleasant sensory experiences I tend to go looking for something else that will. I tend towards the “need-to-have-constant-sensory-stimulation” bent it seems. But as you say, this will likely drop all on it’s own when the time is right.
Thanks Anthem.
Love!
Carson :+1:

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:grin: :grin: :grin: Awesome! (I’m getting the clippers out)

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Hi BuddhiHermit :slight_smile:

I’ve let the above sentence settle in over the past day or so, and, I want you to elaborate. :grin:

Ahhh… the middle way. The all too elusive tightrope that consistently evades the “pleasure junky.” :sunglasses:
Love!
Carson :+1:

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I’ve let the above sentence settle in over the past day or so, and, I want you to elaborate. :grin:

Ahhh… the middle way. The all too elusive tightrope that consistently evades the “pleasure junky.” :sunglasses:
Love!
Carson :+1:

Our buddy buddha of the nowhere near the netherregions has a good perception on this. Eventually your identification with 'not-carson' will fade so much, that you might as well be looking at a stranger through a telescope. So it won't matter what 'carson' is or is not. You see, sometimes attributes of our shadow ('us') are part of a larger framework, and they are not intended to be 'changed' or just don't need to be 'changed'. After all, it is the body which drops off as a dead carcass eventually; it is the soul which drops off as a dead carcass eventually. Even the final hurdle, the so-called atmic sheath drops off as a dead carcass eventually; however when that happens you can't live as a human anymore, so most free beings will hang onto that for a very long time, so they can be part of the outpouring of love. One last tip for you brother of my heart; the concept of "wu wei" really applies here. When you fight something, you feed it energy. That's what you are doing. You might do this practice for things that hinder you; it's not sexy yoga, but it's powerful; Look at the annoying thing in your life; whether 'inside' of you or 'in the world' (no difference, but need to make it clear). Stop the world (the flow of useless babbling thoughts which are the conscious rational mind). Out of this stillness address the 'issue' like this: I love you. I accept you. I accept you forever. I love you and hug you and name you George. Stay around all you want. You can do this with simple words. You can do this as Samyama. Whatever you like. It won't be long before the 'issue' goes away for lack of anyone fretting about it; or it won't entirely go away, but you'll perceive that you are not 'that'. You are not even Carson. What do you care if some stranger, some strange body which is not you is addicted to chocolates formed into the image of my little pony? I'm being verbose here. I'm not being 'spiritual' here. I just wanted to present this like 2 dudes drinking beers on the pier. Does this help? Kev
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The attachment that stays after it has been seen, may have been mistaken for an attachment. Often, we cannot clearly see all the connections that our being makes.
An enjoyment of energy, ecstasy, or both may have another function too.
As Kevin has noted, there are deeper kinds of connection than just attachment, and many will become irrelevant in their own way and time.
As to the middle way, Buddha exhorted his disciples to personally verify everything - Thats also the middle.
Namaste

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Depending on the exact type of energy that it really is it can be very critical that you know excactly which signs are good and which signs are bad. Some energies can be good and bad. One could say that it is a danger to go to work when you undrgo a Kundalini awakening meaning you need to taketime with yourself to find out what you’re doing really. However everything you read here from me is general information and might not be suitable for your situtation. Reply iff you need anything. Bye.