chakras and the Kabbalah

I was reading this, and thought that it has a sound meaning:

  1. Sahasrara or the Crown, corresponds to Keter
  2. Ajna or the third eye corresponds to Binah & Chokmah
  3. Vishuddha or the throat corresponds to Gevurah and Chesed.
  4. Ahanhata or the heart corresponds to Tiferet
  5. Manipura or the navel, where Hod corresponds to the Liver and
    Netzach corresponds to the Stomach
  6. Svadhistana or the genitals corresponds to Yesod
  7. Muladhara, the base of spine, corresponds to Malkhut
    I just read this, as well:
    In Kabbalah, an
    individual whose all chakras have fully and permanently awakened would be
    called the Messiah.

    This means that its almost impossible for us to awaken all the chakras.
    We can feel movement in the chakras, but that doesn’t mean that it has opened, I have felt many times movement in the Ajna and at the Crown, but I don’t think it has awakened, by the way, how can we notice if a chakra is awakened ?? by the movement ? or the ecstasies ?
    I know that each chakra can open by themselves without a pattern, I mean, the crown can be awakened first and then the others.(that could be terrible)
    Have all the gurus awakened all their chakras? if so, are they like Messiah ?? It can take a life to awaken a couple of chakras, or even just one.
    So the Messiah is related to the opening of chakras and the extraordinary powers that they can perform.
    How can we notice a full awakening of a chakra ?
    Namaste
    Neli

Hi Neli

Great post!
I think you are confusing the meaning of the word “Messiah” here. In Hebrew it simply means “annointed one” so it is anyone who has been annointed. Of course in the sentence above about chakras opening and the term Messiah, it refers to anyone who has been annointed by the grace of God.
Personally I think the line would make more sense if it said:
“Anyone who’s chakras have fully awakened and in whom the divine union has decended to the heart and taken up it’s seat there, is a Messiah”
It would fit better with the way the word Messiah is used in the Bible.
It can take a whole lifetime to open one or two chakras, or they can all be opened in one lifetime (or in just a few years). It depends on the person, and on what spiritual practices they are doing.
You know when chakras are opening because you can feel them, and because of the effects that are produced (ecstasies etc.).
Christi

Hey, neli, Kabbalah is spoken soley from the crown perspective. And it’s difficult to wade through the superstition, because there is a lot of symbolism and different perspectives, as to what message was truly conveyed by the Torah and Zohar. Everyone has their own view of what it means to incorporate the universal energy, as symbolized by Adam Kadmon (the primordial man), as it descends from keter to malchut.
The kabbalists call the descent of this energy “grace”, but it’s actually something that the Yogis have known of for a very long time, which is accessing the primordial vibration through meditative practice. This is called Yoga Nidra - and not the relaxation technique, imagination practice, or cds that are often associated with yoga nidra. But the true state where the actual universal samskaras or encountered on a causal, subtle, conscious level. It is a very powerful practice and shouldn’t be embarked upon lightly, since a person is “cleansing the store consciousness”*:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Nidra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_consciousness
Anyway, many associate this cosmic energy to Vishnu, the sleeping lord, since the person is able to enter a dreamless sleep state and directly access the samskaras, the store consciousness, that eventually transform the personality by way of moving from the causal, subtle, gross realms, via meditation, which purify the chakras.
Some separate the energy of the sleeping lord from that of the sleeping serpent, but I consider it them both the same energy just perceptible from different points of origin. One from the crown, the other from the base. The same positive/negative experiences are encountered, whether the energy is directed downward to malchut (the Kingdom of God) or upward to Sahasrara, (the abode of Supernal Consciousness). Both are spoken from the perspecitve of manifestation. And if a person is not prepared it can be terrible, as you noted. yogani takes a more balanced approach thereby preparing the person through steady practice so that excess purification symptoms are avoided, via cosmic samyama.

One person may have the experience from ajna as bliss, another psychic perception, another there is visual phenomenon, another there is command over the body, insight, intuition, knowingness… and I’m sure there is subtleties beyond these experiences. The way that I look at it, as Christi said, it depends on the person.
Take care:
:slight_smile:
VIL

Christi,
You are right, in hebrew Messiah means annointed one
Maybe it fits better as in the bible, like enlightened one
Your quote is wonderful!!
I can feel the opening of a chakra, by the ecstasies, but how am I gonna know that its completely opened or if it just opened a little bit ??
I mean how can we know that a chakra is totally opened ?
Why the movements are always in the Ajna and the Crown, not in other areas ?
Neli :slight_smile:

Great post!
I think you are confusing the meaning of the word “Messiah” here. In Hebrew it simply means “annointed one” so it is anyone who has been annointed. Of course in the sentence above about chakras opening and the term Messiah, it refers to anyone who has been annointed by the grace of God.
Personally I think the line would make more sense if it said:
“Anyone who’s chakras have fully awakened and in whom the divine union has decended to the heart and taken up it’s seat there, is a Messiah”
It would fit better with the way the word Messiah is used in the Bible.
It can take a whole lifetime to open one or two chakras, or they can all be opened in one lifetime (or in just a few years). It depends on the person, and on what spiritual practices they are doing.
You know when chakras are opening because you can feel them, and because of the effects that are produced (ecstasies etc.).
Christi


VIL
I don’t think that the Kabbalah speaks only from the crown perspective, but it can be their priority.
In Kabbalah all the chakras or sefirots are considered important, even the lower ones.
That’s true its called Grace in Kabbalah, the same as the Holy Spirit descend.
Thanks for the link of the Yoga nidra, its great.
I have felt the energy of the sleeping lord, and is very different from the sleeping serpent, I mean I think they are not the same, they make us feel very different sensations, as one is of grace, and the other is just climbing up to the crown. maybe it turns down to the base, but I feel them like two different energies. One is very subtle, the other one is rough, sometimes is not rough, but its not like grace
I think in each person is different, also we feel different sensations all the time, but why always on the crown or ajna ?
Maybe the crown awakens first, and then the others…why not?
Neli :grin:

[quote=“VIL”]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Nidra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_consciousness
Anyway, many associate this cosmic energy to Vishnu, the sleeping lord, since the person is able to enter a dreamless sleep state and directly access the samskaras, the store consciousness, that eventually transform the personality by way of moving from the causal, subtle, gross realms, via meditation, which purify the chakras.
Some separate the energy of the sleeping lord from that of the sleeping serpent, but I consider it them both the same energy just perceptible from different points of origin. One from the crown, the other from the base. The same positive/negative experiences are encountered, whether the energy is directed downward to malchut (the Kingdom of God) or upward to Sahasrara, (the abode of Supernal Consciousness). Both are spoken from the perspecitve of manifestation. And if a person is not prepared it can be terrible, as you noted. yogani takes a more balanced approach thereby preparing the person through steady practice so that excess purification symptoms are avoided, via cosmic samyama.

One person may have the experience from ajna as bliss, another psychic perception, another there is visual phenomenon, another there is command over the body, insight, intuition, knowingness… and I’m sure there is subtleties beyond these experiences. The way that I look at it, as Christi said, it depends on the person.
Take care:
:slight_smile:
VIL


LOL: (no comment): :grin:

Kabbalists do focus soley on the crown via intense study courses, contemplation on the 72 names of G-d, prayer, meditation, etc., so that the person experiences “grace”, from the crown. Without this grace, kabbalists consider it impossible for the person to understand the deeper meaning of the Torah and Zohar, let alone the lower sephirot. I was attempting to do away with some of the superstition surrounding the term and experience, by showing that what some consider grace isn’t really a personal religious grace bestowed upon certain lofty individuals, but is a universal experience that can be accessed directly through practice by anyone. The same view that I once held and have since discarded.
So, in other words, a Yogi would not consider it grace, in the sense of attachment, since he’s seen through the illusion. Where many kabbalists see it as a form of specialness bestowed upon certain individuals coming directly from G-d.
Take care:
:slight_smile:
VIL
P.S.: neli, I wanted to also say that prayer and contemplation are a form of action/practice and I should have worded my original post to reflect this by saying: “in my opinion there seems to be more of a focus on the crown” instead of using the word “soley”, as if I’m absolute authority on the subject. Anyway, I can’t speak for all methods of kabbalah practice and shouldn’t have categorize a group either. And so, for that I apologize.
Concerning your energy experiences, I can relate, and they do seem different. But in my opinion, they are the same. To use the familiar analogy of water - which feels different if it’s percieved as liquid, vapor, solid, etc.

VIL:
quote:

Kabbalists do focus soley on the crown via intense study courses, contemplation on the 72 names of G-d, prayer, meditation, etc., so that the person experiences “grace”, from the crown. Without this grace, kabbalists consider it impossible for the person to understand the deeper meaning of the Torah and Zohar, let alone the lower sephirot.

Well it depends on each kabbalist, as each one of them thinks different. Some of them are more focused on Knowledge than in contemplation on the 72 names of G-d.
Understanding the deeper meaning of the Torah and the Zohar, it’s a big thing, there’s just a few “true” kabbalists that I have known, others are like puppetji gurus, in a sense.
The grace state can be accessed by anyone, but not knowledge, a real kabbalist passes his life studying every word and meaning of the kabbalah, it has a lot of magic words, I think its very different than Yoga, cause Yoga looks for enlightenment, and kabbalah looks for knowledge and knowledge brings power and also enlightenment.
In kabbalah you are manipulating the energies, instead of being manipulated by them as in the case of Yoga. But they can complement each other, in my opinion. It depends on what you want, if to manipulate energies, or being manipulated by them.
neli :slight_smile:

Hi Neli

What does it matter? Just enjoy the ecstasies and carry on. :slight_smile:

Because your ajna and crown are opening first. Gradually you will start to feel movements in the other chakras too. You must have felt some already (in your heart?). :wink:
Christi

I agree that we can gain useful information from both systems, neli.
Take care:
:slight_smile:
VIL

Christi,
Yes I have felt some movements in my heart chakra and also in my stomach, but they are very subtle, so subtle in comparison with the ajna or the crown chakra.
Actually what I have felt more strong is the kind of antennae moving upwards from the base of the spine, far beyond the crown, like if the antennae grew from the base and extended itself to the crown, then surpasses it to the astral planes. Sometimes I feel like a pull of the energy upwards the crown but is the same antennae, pulling the energy outside the crown, like making it larger or bigger, and I feel it mostly not at the crown, but at the back of the head, although it extends itself to the top of the crown.
I enjoy a lot the ecstasies, but now something is enlarging the antennae, and sometimes it feels very strange, I feel sometimes like a conehead, hahaha
Neli :grin:

[quote=“Christi”]
Hi Neli

Because your ajna and crown are opening first. Gradually you will start to feel movements in the other chakras too. You must have felt some already (in your heart?). :wink:
Christi


VIL,
Very useful information, I think Kabbalah is a sacred Knowledge, if you can handle this knowledge you can become like God, but its also dangerous if not used properly, as some words are to make move some energies, or to be opened, and one has to have the control over them, otherwise it can be very dangerous. Everything has a risk.
I don’t think that in Yoga people can manipulate the energy, unless they are far advanced, I think mostly that they are being manipulated by the energy. In Tummo Reiki it can be very different, maybe they can manipulate the energy, I have seen this a lot.
Kundalini is just one energy (like a door) but there are many doors out there.
The 72 names of G-d are strong energies waiting to be manipulated by people who knows the secrets of the meaning of each name and the way to make them work. they are doors that can be opened by the wise man.
And they are at your service. I mean you are the master, not being mastered by them.
Take care
Neli

Hi Neli,

There are two aspects to the sahasrara chakra. One aspect is like a bowl surrounded by petals. This can be turned downwards when the chakra is closed, or the whole bowl can turn upwards, and the petals can curl up when the chakra opens. Each petal can unfold individually. The other aspect to the crown chakra is a cone shaped vortex of swirling energy, with the smaller point touching your head, and the open end up in the air above your head.
Christi,
p.s. There are different aspects to the Kabala. The magical Kabala involves manipulating energy, and the complentative Kabala is more like what we do here at AYP. The complentative Kabala probably leads more directly to enlightenment, with less danger of distraction on the way.

Christi,
Time ago I felt the bowl sensation, not now, the only thing I can feel now, is the antennae that enlarges upwards and the kind of conehead at the crown, sometimes the pull of the energy is strong, and it bothers, but there is no pain. I haven’t felt the petals.
The problem with the contemplative kabbalah is that one can be taken by an energy that we don’t know. On the contrary is with the magical one, cause we know what we are evoking. I think the risk is the same.
thanks for the info.
Neli :slight_smile:

There are two aspects to the sahasrara chakra. One aspect is like a bowl surrounded by petals. This can be turned downwards when the chakra is closed, or the whole bowl can turn upwards, and the petals can curl up when the chakra opens. Each petal can unfold individually. The other aspect to the crown chakra is a cone shaped vortex of swirling energy, with the smaller point touching your head, and the open end up in the air above your head.
Christi,
p.s. There are different aspects to the Kabala. The magical Kabala involves manipulating energy, and the complentative Kabala is more like what we do here at AYP. The complentative Kabala probably leads more directly to enlightenment, with less danger of distraction on the way.


Hi Neli,

You have me confused now. :slight_smile: I have always thought that we don’t know the energies that we are dealing with, either with the contemplative kabbalah or with the magical kabbalah. Can you really say that you know the energies of magic?
Christi

Just wanted to add that in Kabbalah they also somehow use the seven lower or animal chakras also called the seven roots of the tree of life as opposed to its seven branches. Same thing in european alchemy

Christi,
In Kabbalah (of course I’m not an expert) the 72 names of G-d are energies, one must know the meaning of each one of them, of course its impossible to know them all, maybe a “true” kabbalist can know a few of them, but impossible to know all of them.
By example the word Da’ath means knowledge, attracts knowledge, and all its branches, although this is not one of the names of God. When one evoke the da’ath deva, the energy of knowledge begins to work, and to come inside us, to master it is another thing, it takes time.
Many of the magic energies are mere product of the Kundalini awakening. But “real” magic is not a byproduct of the Kundalini, but of evocations of some magical words, like in the kabbalah.
In Kundalini we know that there is an energy that is transforming us from the inside, but I don’t think we know well this energy, cause its effects are sometimes brutal, I mean very strong to the body, I think also that we are taken by this energy by surprise, without us looking out for it, without our permission, as if we were possessed by this energy, and we cannot put it off, cause we are possessed by Shakti once she awakens. All we can do is to surrender. Like prisoners of the Shakti energy, in fact, we are prisioners of this energy. We are prisoners of the brutal effects that sometimes she can have upon us without us being sometimes aware of.
Most of the times Shakti takes us by surprise. Of course we can have wonderful ecstasies, but we cannot forget the other effects.
Yesterday I forgot to do the fingers mudra, and my fingers began to freeze, I felt them like pieces of ice, till I made the mudra again,they warmed as normal. I was defeating the energy to proof the strenght of it, and it was tremendous.
On the contrary is Kabbalah, cause the energy won’t possesses anyone, the kabbalist will try to master the energy, whatever he choose to master. Well I’m just a student of Kabbalah, not an expert, its just my opinion.
Neli :slight_smile:

You have me confused now. :slight_smile: I have always thought that we don’t know the energies thet we are dealing with, either with the contemplative kabbalah or with the magical kabbalah. Can you really say that you know the energies of magic?
Christi


Markern
I think all nadis or chakras or energy’s centers like that of the Kabbalah, play an important role to manipulate the energy or what we call “magic”. What I like of Kabbalah is that one is the master, not being mastered by the energy that sometimes takes you by surprise.
Neli :grin:

Hi Neli,

Kundalini only has negative effects on the person if it is not worked with in an intelligent way. This means understanding how it works on the body/ mind, and how it can be managed using effective practices. It does not need to be a painfull process, and certainly one does not need to feel possessed by it.
I am also just a student of the Kabbalah, but I am sure that you will find that the energy that transforms the Kabbalah practitioner is the same energy that transforms the yogi. In the Kabbalah it just goes by different names. They call it the fire snake, the fiery intelligence or the fire of God. They say that there are two aspects to the fiery intelligence, one which rises and one which descends. They say that when these two energies are activated and they merge in the individual, a third force is produced, which is the supernal light (Ain Sof Or). Yogani says that when Siva descends to merge with Shakti, it produces outpouring divine love.
The closer you get to God, the more everything starts to look the same! :slight_smile:
Christi

Christi,
You are very right, we feel the bad effects if we don’t work the energy with intelligence. The problem is that it can take years, and years, for us to understand what is happening to our bodies, even if we practice some sort of meditation, cause we are unaware of the energy, we know that something is happening, but we don’t know what is it, till it begins to get mad or strong? on us and begins to makes us feel the brutal effects that some people have had. I have heard hundreds of cases of the bad symptoms. In my case it was subtle, but even when I knew that it was the K energy, I felt a kind of anxiety that made me feel bad, but it was only at the beginning, but even now if I try to stop her or challenge her, I begin immediately to feel bad, mostly with cold, I feel like freezing when resisting her commands. I challenge the energy cause I think in some way that the energy most be mastered by us, not being mastered by it, well maybe I’m wrong, but sometimes I force her to move where I want her to go, and sometimes I feel her moving slowly where I command her to move, so in my opinion we can handle this energy. Sometimes not, maybe she is proving me, maybe, but we must know of what she is capable of, don’t you think so ?? We have to know her, understand her, and if possible to master her, in my opinion.
Of course its lovely to feel possessed by Shakti,(when in ecstasy) but I think it would be better if we can master the energy. We can avoid many bad symptoms if we try to know her better.
About Kabbalah, yeah I think it can be the same energy, but awakened in a different way, cause in Kabbalah we don’t feel the bad symptoms that Shakti can brings us (at the beginning).
The work of Siva is the more sacred work, when he descends, is pure ecstasy and love, Shakti have to work so hard to make Siva move and downpour.
There are many ways to reach God, once we are near, it doesn’t matter the path we took. All are blessed if we get to him.
The more love we feel the more near we are to God. This is very true.
kind regards
Neli :slight_smile:
Kundalini only has negative effects on the person if it is not worked with in an intelligent way. This means understanding how it works on the body/ mind, and how it can be managed using effective practices. It does not need to be a painfull process, and certainly one does not need to feel possessed by it.
I am also just a student of the Kabbalah, but I am sure that you will find that the energy that transforms the Kabbalah practitioner is the same energy that transforms the yogi. In the Kabbalah it just goes by different names. They call it the fire snake, the fiery intelligence or the fire of God. They say that there are two aspects to the fiery intelligence, one which rises and one which descends. They say that when these two energies are activated and they merge in the individual, a third force is produced, which is the supernal light (Ain Sof Or). Yogani says that when Siva descends to merge with Shakti, it produces outpouring divine love.
The closer you get to God, the more everything starts to look the same! :slight_smile:
Christi
[/quote]

Hi Neli,

Are you saying that all practitioners of the Kabbalah do not experience any problems when they have awakened are being purified by the fire of God?
Christi