It is very easy to tell and spread story about siddhis, black magic, etc. They will roll and grow like a snow ball.
Yogani wrote:
Agree. It is a misery if we cannot distinguish what’s just “true for us” (I usually won’t call this “truth”. It’s just sematic, though.) and what’s “the truth”.
The difference? Easy: “the truth” applies regardless of whether you believe it or not. It doesn’t matter whether you believe in gravity and other physical laws: you will just die or hurt yourself falling from 100 meter up. While what’s “true for you” (like black magic) hardly have any influence other than you or anyone who believe in it. I frequently broke the “rules” of superstitious traditions, sometimes intentionally. And if anything happened at all, they are all positive. It is a rejection against any superstitious thoughts. Unlike the laws in physics, they have effects if and only if you let them grow in your mind.
I just cannot imagine how people could spend 20 years reading hundreds of books on Black Magic, Astrology,… and REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE DEVELOPED POWER , while from the outside, it’s so obvious that they are trying hard to convince themselves!
If they practice Magic(illusion) instead of Magick(paranormal) for 20 years, they would have get something! Not just something in their mind.
The same goes for siddhis. I don’t dismiss it as impossible. But so far what I’ve seen are really just some tricks.(including all well-known siddhis in different traditions, like walking on the fire, standing on knife, swallowing bulbs) Some guru in india even perform Magic(illusion) to convince their followers. The only exception is that some Chi Kung masters can really harden their muscles to an amazing level and perform some “real” tricks. But it’s not paranormal in my standard.
Absolute truth is a very limited concept. The more you try to narrow it down, the less true it is.
If a person has strong enough beliefs, something can be true for them and no one else. The reason some things like gravity seem to be absolute truths is that almost everyone on earth agrees that they are true. It is a silent agreement we make as we absorb the belief systems of our culture as we grow up. Things people have not agreed upon are perceived differently by different people.
The reason siddhis and such are possible is that a person can move his belief systems outside the worldview of the masses. These beliefs can be strengthened either by bhakti and practice, or by fear and hate.
A person can strengthen his beliefs to the point that he doesn’t believe in gravity anymore, and achieve levitation. But these feats come with consequences. If the practitioner is trying to move toward God, the question arises of what the purpose is of siddhis, and the answer is they are a distraction from the path.
Conversely a sorcerer can strengthen his beliefs so they are contrary to those of mankind in the realm of fear, and achieve paranormal feats, and that path leads not only away from God, but
away from mankind.
When either one of these people performs the seemingly impossible feat, if they don’t have enough power to influence the beliefs of anyone watching, the watcher will not perceive the feat. A flying man will be seen as a big bird for instance. The watcher sees what his belief system tells him is possible.
When an individual gains enough power, or is in tune with the will of God, he is able to perform impossible feats and have an entire
audience witness the miracle. This usually occurs when it is not for the sake of a test, but it is God’s will because the feat will somehow influence the people involved in a positive way. Consequently they don’t belong to the beliefs of science which relies on repeatability, and the necessity of phenomenon occurring without being tied to a reason. In the world of God’s will, this does not exist. Phenomenon don’t just randomly happen because of the laws of physics. Lifeforce, prana, or God is the impetus behind seemingly inanimate forces.
Ether, you are entering a realm of philosophy which is rather dangerous if you take it seriously, and live consistently with it. I don’t think you do, however!
Our belief does have a great effect. But it only goes so far. Whether or not you can live on sunlight alone (with no food) is not quite dependent on your belief. I remember Yogani talking about a guy who honestly thought he could live on sunlight alone, and failed at last. Examples are many. Many people have a strong belief that they will win when they gamble. But such beliefs don’t come in life, and the stronger their belief, the more miserable the outcome is.
There are many people in this world who confuse their belief (their own “truth”, using your words) and the objective truth. The world may be changed by your belief, but only if you act it out and even then, only so much.
If you are not convinced that the universe usually doesn’t care what you believe in, check out the book “The Darwin Awards”.
Spiritual truth may be more subjective. But there are some objective truth. Whether you name it scientific or just common sense doesn’t matter. And it doesn’t matter whether you “believe in” gravitation or not. You don’t even have to know the name “gravitation”, and certainly not the theory behind. You are limited by it whether you know it or not. The uneducated is not better off: they will die when fall from 10000ft, even if they don’t know why.
What’s true is what’s out there. The scientific theory is just a convenient way of packing the observations together.
I do not know much about these things and it might be unwise of me to write, but what I have been told from different shamans is that light and darkness are neutral, none is “better” or “worse”, universe exist of both and there are no values attached to them. We all have darkness and light within us and we have to acknowledge, accept and face our own darkness. As I have understood it some say this is an “emotional transformation” that has to take place in order to get a deeper understanding of the existence.
I have only just begun my spiritual journey and I seek knowledge in many places and talk to many persons from different “belief systems”. (You people at this forum have helped me a lot!) What I have found fascinating is that ALL well-trained persons I have talked to have begun by saying: “Whatever I will tell you know may sound as if it is the TRUTH, but none of this is true, remember that”. I understand now that those persons have known in their hearts what David_obsidian and Yogani and several others here are talking about… Everything is true from its own perspective at that certain time.
I have been told that as I keep on increasing my knowledge I will become better and better at creating my own truth. Some of them have been surprised that I have learned so quickly to manifest my thoughts. What I think, what I lay an intention on will become “TRUE”. And as long as it is “healing” or giving “positive energies” to someone or stop the rain to fall etc it is fine. When crossing over the spiritual border it is often the light saying “welcome” accompanied by an experience of great love. But they have warned me that I will meet the darkness as well, and if I get scared at that moment I will manifest that reality as well. It may cause trouble, negative feelings and states (it was in one of those “states” I cried out for help in this forum a few weeks ago).
If I do not recognize the demons or negative feelings as my own I will belive they are being posed on me from the “outside” and I will as a consequence become very afraid. If one passes through the darkness one looses the fear of it and it will in turn loose its power. If you on the other hand get frightened, it “lives” on that fear and will be able to eventually manifest in numerous different ways. But it will only exist in the dimension where it was created. If one changes “dimension”; moves to another “space”; or chose another perspective they will not exist anylonger. (The film “Blueberry” with Juliette Lewis is about a man who does that “trip”. Fascinating film.)
So from that shallow background of knowledge I associate to this talk about “black magic” in the following way: It could be interpreted as a “sign” that Renu is about to meet his inner darkness but does not dare to face it yet. What he feels is only reflections of his own darkness and he is laying the darkness outside of him instead of accepting it as something within himself. What the other man does is actually doing him a service - inviting him to acknowledge ALL of his being. If the man is “allied” with the darkness and calles himself a “black magician” he has placed himself in that dimension, is living that “truth” and functions as a catalyst awakening the darkness within others; he functions as a mirror. If Renu can see through that he will thank the man in the end for the tough but necessary lesson that will reveale more of the mystery of the existence.
I am talking a little bit from own experience. The relationship I am engaged in right now functions like that. My partner has many times been accused of being a man of Darkness, a sorcerer, using energy for his ego. But that is not true. When people start feeling awkward in his presence it is their own feelings and fears that are being awakened. He is SO happy that I can see through the strange things that are happening. I get mad, furious, hurt, angry, upset, whatever, and at first I lay it upon him. “You are doing this, which causes me to do or feel that”. But after a while I realise that he has only triggered something very painful within myself and then sorrow comes, and love, and I can see that he is helping me to open old wounds in order to be able to SEE ALL OF ME. I am the first woman that he meets that can cope with his strong catalytic effect.
Is this mumbo jumbo to you? I hope not.
“The only devils in the world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles ought to be fought”
Mahatma Gandhi
emc, I love your post.
I should really be at work, but because of synchonicity this morning I thought to relate this.
Two weeks ago I did a healing on a friend of mine, she had fallen and fractured her wrist.
She went home and took off the removable strap to wash. She found that all the bruising and swelling had completely gone. She had been told by the Doctor that it would take 3-4 weeks to go.
Last Friday evening, at our healing gathering, I did another healing. This morning she rang me during my meditation to inform me that she had just been to the hospital, had an x-ray, and the facture was completely gone.
So last week there was an x-ray with a fracture and now there is none.
I am honoured to be part of this and I (or not I) was just a small part, she herself and others in the group were also involved.
Could this be described as “the magic factor”?
I love what you said EMC. It came from your heart… Are you sure you are new at this?
Louis said: “Could this be described as “the magic factor”?”
Good question Louis. I have often wondered about this too.
David, the emblem was supposedly nailed at the top and bottom, and the top nail came loose in the storm.
Louis, absolutely the magic factor. However it was necessary for the girl to believe for the healing to work. Before Yogananda healed the now head of SRF, Daya Mata of some debilitating disease, he asked her “Do you believe God can heal you of this?” When she said absolutely, he healed her and the disease never came back.
EMC- don’t be apologetic; just dive in there: you’re doing great. if we say something dumb people will correct us, and we can take it back. Your views are quite valid.
I have seen the same type of lessons you are talking about, where i see that people who are thought of as bad aren’t really. I believe the trick to dealing with all this good/evil stuff is to take it all lightly. If we see the whole world as just “scenery”, and appreciate the beauty and complexity but don’t get emotionally involved it’s so much easier.
The hard part is that starts with taking very good stuff lightly. When we have extremely enlightening revelations for instance, instead of patting ourselves on the back, thinking “we’re so much closer to God now”, we should just say “Hmm, that’s interesting,”
and return to our practices.
Then when all hell breaks loose, and all signs seem to point to our imminent demise, we won’t have any trouble saying “Hmm, that’s interesting,” and return to our practices unscathed.
emc - Based upon what you’ve written here and in your first post, I would be very cautious about this man. Watch for signs of power control and manipulation. (I assume that he’s the same guy you wrote about last week). Always trust your gut reactions in cases like this, and don’t second-guess yourself.
Hi Renukaprasad,
I can sympathize with what you’re going through. Let me tell you a story about something that happened to me when I was a younger woman.
I’d heard stories and seen reports about unwanted spirits that dwelled in people’s homes. I had no idea if it was true or not. How could I know? I am a human with a human mind and I can only ‘know’ what I have experienced myself. Anyway, I didn’t think about it much because this was something that happened to other people, not me.
I moved into a home bringing my teenage son and daughter with me. After settling in, there were in my home what appeared to be three distinctly separate unseen entities living there besides my children and myself.
One entity I called Gladys. Her silhouette (of a woman) would silently move across the walls of my great room which was a kitchen and den and the adjoining dining room. Gladys was peaceful and just showed up and walked around. I never mentioned her to anyone. One evening, my daughter and I were watching television in the den with all the shutters shut and Gladys strolled by. I said nothing and made no note of it. Finally my daughter said, Mom, didn’t you see her? She’s always walking around here." I said that I did. My daughter said that the ghost in this room never frightened her, but was always peaceful.
The second entity we never saw and he wandered around the house whenever he wanted. I dubbed him “Sir Farts A Lot”. My daughter also heard him, but being kinder, named him “Passing Wind”. You may be laughing now, but God’s truth is being written here. If I spoke back to Passing Wind after he made himself known by making his usual sounds, he would answer back sometimes with his trademark sound.
I thought that I was the only one who felt the third entity. This entity felt dark and immensely evil and filled me with fear and dread when it appeared. It hung out in the upstairs. It only showed itself periodically in the dead of night. Sometimes I would wake and feel its powerful frightening presence and I would pray for protection for my children and myself. I don’t remember ever being so focused in my prayer. My daughter started sleeping with her light on. I asked why and she told me that there was a scary thing upstairs that she sometimes felt, only at night… I had to do something, to calm her fears….
I discussed it with some of my friends. One friend told me to politely ask the spirits to leave. I did twice. Gladys left and we haven’t seen her since.
Passing Wind is still with us and I’ve come to the conclusion that it is likely faulty pipes that are making noise that just seems to be coming from differing parts of the house and occasionally coincidentally occurs after I reply to it.
But it was the dark thing frightening my daughter. So I asked my friends again how to rid my home of the evil thing.
A Jewish friend told me to pray. That didn’t work.
A Sufi friend told me to repeat the Zikr when Mr. Evil showed up. That didn’t work.
A Native American friend told me to perform a ceremony she gave me while burning sage sticks. I actually tried that. It didn’t work.
A Wiccan friend told me to surround my house with a circle of salt and recite a chant she gave me. I didn’t try that one.
Another friend told me to stop being afraid. That this thing could not harm us. That my fear was causing any stress and negativity that I experienced.
This was the hardest advice to follow. I thought about it. This evil thing was, well I didn’t know what it was.
But I was spirit, eternal and filled with light and am part of all that is. My body might not be eternal, but “I” was. And I had nothing to be afraid of.
It was difficult at first, when I felt the evil, dark, presence come into my room to roll over, think, oh yeah, well, WhatEver, (in my best California valley voice) I’m going back to sleep now and then sleep.
I just had to realize that the only thing causing a problem in my life was my own fear and I had to let the fear go…… It wasn’t easy. But it was the only thing that worked.
Blessings to you,
Kathy
Thanks for all your comments. But I am honest… I was thrown into this land of Gods, spirits, magicians, light and dark forces, love and fear, in February. Before that I had a peaceful life with perfect understanding of what life was. My mind is quick though, it picks up knowledge and knows where to look for it, although it doesn’t always know what to do with it.
How did you do it?
From my own experience with fear, the hardest part is facing it. To actually feel it fully. It is such a temptation to pull oneself together against it…either physically or psycologically. It is so easy to start telling stories about it…in order to mentally process it, instead of experiencially go through it. So I am curious…how did you let it go? Did you feel it without the story? Did you allow the fear, but not the image? If so, in this allowance, did the fear burn itself out? After all, without the story, what could it feed on?
Thanks again …
May all your Nows be Here
Katrine,
it was one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done. I did feel the fear fully in this case. I didn’t have ANY problem feeling it fully! The darkness was there, in my house upstairs, hovering and close. It enveloped every aspect of me. It felt like a conscious being, formless.
And I didn’t let it go all at once. It took a while, and that dark thing did visit a few more time. I had tried to marshal whatever strength I had against it, using prayer, the zikr, whatever. But nothing had worked.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘did you feel it without the story?’ What story? And, there was no image, only energy and dark presence.
I haven’t tried to analyze this before.
As difficult as it was and this kind of internal change and reaction is hard…It was as if I stopped worrying about me and my children in this regard, stopped worrying about the consequences of this energy and whatever action it might take.
I had to realize that we were, we simply were, and we would continue regardless of any event precipitated by the presence of this thing. Our continuation was a given, the laws of the universe would be followed, based upon whatever destiny our karma led us to and because of this, there was nothing to be done. It was enough just to live and continue, without worrying about external forces, their intent or actions. I could be calm again and realized that everything was as it should be.
I’m glad you asked that question. I’ve been worrying about external forces of another nature [business ] and am in a calmer place now.
light and love,
Kathy
Hi Katrine,
To me fear is my greatest and truest friend. It shows me exactly what I want to avoid in a loud and clear way. It’s a reaction you do not have to dig very deep to find. The more I resist or the further I run away, the louder it gets. My fear loves me with such unwavering loyalty it won’t let me get away without eventually hearing its message.
The quickest way to overcome your fear is to acknowledge it and hear its message. Jump in and find out exactly what is so terrible, it’s never as bad as we think it is. Just because you embrace your fear doesn’t mean the thing you fear is going to happen, just that you think it might.
A
I’ve never heard of anyone experiencing fear like I do, so maybe I’m weird. For me if I feel a great fear coming I have to face it (feel the full effect of it) and decide with conviction within three seconds to not let it overcome me.
Then sometimes I can see it as a big wheel made of all the words that describe the fear, and I can mentally throw that wheel away from me. Without the describing words, it doesn’t exist anymore. The circular shape seems to cause the fear to be autonomous. It holds itself together by connecting its different aspects to each other like a bicycle wheel and creates the illusion of being real.
Thanks everyone
Great perspectives on fear!
It is an issue that has surfaced for me during the past year or so. I am much more afraid than I thought. It is good that it has surfaced - now I can at least see it. Most of it has to do with fear of physical harm (I was hit a lot as a child) - but ultimately I guess it all boils down to fear of death.
My way of dealing with it, is also to allow it fully.
Kathy wrote:
Any story, Kathy. “Energy and a dark presence” is also a story. Words to describe something.
Yes. I can relate. To me this is the opposite of fighting it. It is a relaxation; an acceptance. Instead of naming what I feel (even to call it fear) I get to know the energy by locating it in my body…to find where the physical seat of the fear is. When I find its location, I breath into it…it increases…and then it dies down as long as it is not fueled by a thought or an image.
Or - and this happens a lot lately; it transforms itself into a kind of “neutral” energy…much like Kundalini “in the rising”.
Andrew:
Yes. So true. I have an issue with control. My fear often surfaces in the car…my husband likes speed …I do not. I can get so scared when he “races past” other cars to get ahead. (He is a good driver…just much more daring than I).
So basically…I have concluded that my fear is simply fear of death. Fear of pain and fear of death. I have these fears because I am blind as a bat to the beyond. The day I see how things really are, the fear will lose its grip on me. I trust that. In the meantime I face it; I learn from it and I try to not run when it comes my way.
Ether!
How interesting…it confirms what I find to be true…that chronic fear is a “package” - held together by concepts, feelings, images and past experiences. I guess you manage to be a witness when you encounter it - thus avoiding attachment to it. Very interesting…
Yes. Intelectually I can fully buy this. But experiencially…I think what I fear will happen…when it comes to death. But - then again; I don’t know squat about death. That’s the whole thing - the “notknowing” is the fright. That is why I wait. I wait while understanding ticks in. And one day - when the level of understanding is clear enough - I am bound to see. There is no other option. Yes?
May all your Nows be Here
I take each one of my fears and indulge myself fully in whatever invokes them. I was afraid of heights, so I dived off cliffs into the water and learned to sky dive. That’s where I learned you have three seconds to stop the fear before it can immobilize you. I was afraid of blood and knives, so i learned surgical technology, etc.
When you do enough of that, then you see fears as opportunities. So I look forward to death, but I have a lot of other stuff to do first.
If I spoke back to Passing Wind after he made himself known by making his usual sounds, he would answer back sometimes with his trademark sound. 
It didn’t work.