Variations of Siddhasana and Effects

07.Discussions on AYP Pranayama, Mudras + Bandhas
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Hello All,

I have a few questions regarding the practice of Siddhasana.

First, is Advanced Siddhasana used during sitting practices known to cause adverse effects such as hair loss/hair thinning and mood imbalance? I’m 30 y.o now and I’ve started suffering these symptoms over the last few months and have been unsure of the cause. Wasn’t sure if it was due to energetic/prana overstimulation or not.

I’ve been using Advanced Siddhasana with cupping of genitals for about a year now, on and off, and have just started noticing these effects.

Second question, Is the control of unnatural sexual desires/urges (such as porn & masturbation) AND a decreased obsession with orgasm associated with the Advanced Siddhasana practice ONLY? Or is this inherent to basic Siddhasana without cupping too?

In Lesson T28 (near the end) it is stated that using Advanced Siddhasana can decrease the dependence on orgasm and lead to a much healthier sexual/spiritual lifestyle. It can also help the practitioner last longer and engage more lovingly in partnered sexual relations.

Again, wanting to know if this is a quality of Advanced Siddhasana (with cupping of the genitals) only or if it is standard to the foundational practice (without cupping). Lastly I keep seeing warnings of potential impotency or genital damage by placing heel at the perineum. I always feel good in practices but keep seeing this brought up (outside of AYP). I’m using a soft rubber ball since my heels won’t reach..comfortably at least. Is there any short or long term concerns here?

All insight is much appreciated!

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Hi Reno,

I do not think Siddhasana could cause hair loss. If you are a 30-year-old man losing hair it is probably just genetic.

As for mood imbalance, anything that involves overdoing, especially taking insufficient rest time after spiritual practices could cause it. The first recommendation in such cases is to rest more after spiritual practices before engaging in daily life. The second is to increase grounding activities, such as walking. If all else fails, back off on spiritual practices until unpleasant side effects subside.

Regarding Siddhasana’s ability to reduce the desire for orgasm, that is not my experience, especially with the cupping version. Siddhasana is meant to stimulate the sexual energy, not keep it at bay.

In my experience, at least, there is a balance to be struck between taking advantage of the energetic benefits of pre-orgasmic sexual stimulation (with Siddhasana being a mild form of it compared with tantric masturbation or sex done outside sitting practices), without causing the desire for genital orgasm to become too intense such that it my slow down progress by the draining effect of frequent orgasm. Right now, I average about 2 weeks between orgasms, usually blocked. This is with a fair amount of sexual stimulation in between, including siddhasana with cupping and pre-orgasmic sex with my wife. I have managed to go a bit longer–say 3 or 4 weeks, but I have found I can only achieve this with strict avoidance of sexual stimulation, and that I tend to start to feel irritable.

Over time, I do think you will find that the ability to go for longer periods will increase, and that it is worth “pushing the envelope” to a degree. I think the perceived “need” for genital orgasm is somewhat like the perception of hunger when undergoing a short fast. In fact, for people at a healthy weight, there is no danger of starving or even any adverse consequences by not eating for 1 day, 3 days, or even a week (with proper hydration, rest, possible electrolyte supplementation, most can go much longer–I once did 3 weeks, but don’t really recommend it because the recovery time was too long and rough, but I may have did it wrong).

By the same token, no one’s reproductive system will suffer any harm by avoiding ejaculation for 1 month, 2 months, or even longer. The body can reabsorb the sperm and other constituents, and can also have a wet dream if needed. Therefore, I think the perceived need for orgasm is a bit like the hunger one feels at the same time one eats dinner each day–it may not indicate any real nutritional need so much as habit. Therefore, I do think it can be beneficial to push the boundaries of brahmacharya time within a reasonable limit, and I am somewhat attempting to do that myself.

But yes: could moodiness be caused by overdoing, including overdoing sexually stimulating pre-orgasmic stimulation? Yes. Hair loss? No.

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Hi Reno,

You have already received good advice from Casey. When it comes to changes in sexual desire and especially obsessive sexual desire, this is reduced through the practice of advanced siddhasana and also regular siddhasana. The way it works is that any form of siddhasana will tend to gently cultivate sexual energy to rise from the pelvic region, by activating the root chakra. As the sexual energy rises, it brings the whole body into a pre-orgasmic state of ecstasy. As we get used to being in this state both during and outside of practices, then compulsion for sexual activity gradually diminishes and also the compulsion for orgasm. The pre-orgasmic state that siddhasana cultivates in the body is more amazing than genital orgasm, and orgasm becomes more of a let-down, an anti-climax that has to be recovered from.

If orgasm is deliberately avoided, because it is an anti-climax, then that means we can remain with our partner for longer during love-making. There is also less need for unhealthy forms of external stimulation, when our own body has become a fountain of ecstasy 24/7.

Of course, siddhasana (basic or advanced) does not bring this about overnight. It is a long journey and there can be a few bumps in the road, especially in the early days. Or, maybe even more than a few. But it is worth persevering. And siddhasana is not the only practice that brings this about. It works well in conjunction with shambhavi mudra, mulabandha, uddiyana bandha, kechari mudra, Spinal Breathing Pranayama, Deep Meditation, Samyama and so on. Every practice in yoga plays a part.

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Hi Reno,

p.s.

There is no risk of impotency or genital damage when using siddhasana. Remember that the pressure at the perineum during siddhasana is not a strong pressure. Siddhasana should not be used when practicing on a hard surface, so there will be a soft surface under your body. You can use a cushion to raise your tailbone off the floor, creating space under the perineum for the heel to fit easily into. If you are using a prosthetic like a ball, or half-ball, then it should be placed in such a way as to provide a firm pressure to the perineum, but not too strong. A hacky-sack is good, as it is soft and flexible.

As we progress with siddhasana, we can find that even a gentle pressure at the perineum can send waves of ecstasy coursing up through the body. Another case of less is more.

See lesson 75 for more details.

Now we are going to bring the inner foot further under and put our heel under our perineum. We will be sitting on our heel there with the top of our foot lying almost flat on the bed. It is not a good idea to try this while sitting on a hard surface. It is not necessary to put all of our weight on the heel. If we are using back support, as recommended, we can lean back a bit and find a reasonably comfortable position where we are sitting with our heel firmly against our perineum. Not too firm, not too light. We can use either foot underneath, and can switch them for comfort as necessary…" [Yogani]

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Thank you both for your time and responses! Christi, as always I appreciate your sound insight and expertise in addressing my questions. Your answers are very informative and get to the root of my concerns every time.

Casey, I also appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experiences with your response. I’m glad a fellow brother can relate to my experiences and speak (well type) to them directly! An average of 2 weeks is also impressive in terms of duration of abstaining. I hope to one day soon follow in a similar track. Currently, I struggle with urges to view porn which leads to masturbation often times. Leading to an orgasm (no blocking) every couple days or so. This is frustrating because I know it is a hinderance to my progress. Despite the constant setbacks, I still engage in sitting practices daily. Although I feel the effects are limited. The one time this year when I managed to abstain a full week–I could literally feel the energy and pleasure rise in my body while doing sitting practices. This is while sitting in siddhasana and cupping the genitals. The pleasure rose and increased in intensity to the point where my entire body (mainly upper) radiated and pulsated with energy. It was like my entire body was on the verge of orgasm but without a climax or release. But it didn’t stop! The pleasure only continued to increase until ceasing meditation. This intense pleasure didn’t stay with me after and into daily life–only short glimpses at times.

I’ve only experienced and felt this the sole time I made it to 7 days in abstinence. Which makes me wonder of the potency of going 14 days or even 30! However, It only occurred during sitting practices while cupping. It didn’t happen when using a hand mudra such as chin mudra. I’m not sure why this is but unfortunately I get caught up in the hands and which to use.

I notice when using chin mudra I am much more relaxed during the day, I sleep much better and my mood is balanced–its like it’s easier to “be myself” without overthinking. But on the other hand when cupping, I feel much more energized, a bit more anxious but there is MUCH more pleasure in sitting practices.

I feel I’m constantly in a stronghold of following balance and peace, or chasing spiritual pleasure in ecstasy. To be honest, I can’t decide which takes priority so I’m constantly switching hand placements versus focusing and leaning into the practices. Not sure how to get over this hump.

Casey you mentioned how you’re now able to bypass orgasm during sexual relations with your wife. This intrigues me greatly, because I haven’t been able to successfully translate the pre orgasmic state to the bedroom. Currently, I’m not sexually active, not by choice per se but I’m making use of this time to try and gain better control of my internal energies. I’ve found in the past when engaging in partnered sex, it led to an increased desire in the unnatural means such as pornography & masturbation later on. If you don’t mind me asking, how are you able to maintain such control during? Is it strictly by use of the holdback method, or is it great communication with your partner? How does one maintain the pre orgasmic tendency during partnered sexual activity in this manner?

Should I start small and try to implement blocking if orgasm does arise and hope my bhakti takes care of the rest?

Much Gratitude :folded_hands:

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Hello Reno

The ecstasy you describe of a seven day sexual fast is available to you without effort once natural vajroli is established in the body via your disciplined meditation practices. At that point loss from ejaculation will have less effect or setback, in part because the ecstasy is essentially a continuous orgasm and typical orgasms pale in comparison. With natural vajroli, sexual relations with a partner are enhanced because you can engage without undo concern you are compromising your spiritual progress.

In my younger married life, before I was engaged in meditation and spiritual practice, I was naturally drawn to withholding orgasm, and my wife and I had the understanding I would attempt to only release on every third try. She didn’t understand at first but quickly approved because it meant her pleasure was our shared focus, and that my orgasm was not. This often meant pauses, adjustments, or creativity while in union, and enhanced communication in the bedroom. Once she became pregnant and we started a family, we dropped this “experiment” and returned to typical relations because our busy lives meant less sexual indulgences.

Being single is a good time for you to practice for future sexual relationship. If you cannot completely avoid pornography, try viewing it without touching your genitalia at all, solely as observation and witness, and save sexual practices for private or partnered relations. When solo, try and focus on arousal as the endgame rather than orgasm. Make your private time a ritual: allow a lot of uninterrupted times, play music, light candles, focus on your whole body not just the genitals. When orgasm is not necessarily the end game, you allow yourself to dwell in arousal and become comfortable in the ecstasy of that. In the future when you are partnered, you can make their pleasure your pleasure because your focus and expectations have changed. Practice on making arousal the desired endgame.

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Hi Reno,

Happy to share my experiences. Part of if may be age: as I am currently in my 40s, probably not quite as much sexual energy builds up in 2 weeks as it did in my 20s, much less my teens, when I had not yet learned anything about yoga (although I also remember going for 2 weeks once as a teen while busy on a foreign trip, leaving little time or privacy for sexual thoughts). That said, I think it is primarily a matter of habit, as I recall being able to build up to 2-3 weeks at one point around my late-20s-early-30s.

I recall that, before I started AYP, I would typically have an orgasm 2 or 3 times a week while looking at pornography and/or with a girlfriend, when I had one. I had practiced a bit of qigong prior to AYP, but the teacher did not really discuss sexuality. Once I read AYP and began to attempt brahmacharya, I recall a period where it was very difficult to get past one week. This was back in my early 20s, I think. I recall that, like clockwork, I would get to 1 week and then find myself unable to sleep, tossing and turning due to sexual urges.

At the time, I think I managed to get past it simply by “powering through” (accepting sleep deprivation). Once I managed to get past that mental “barrier” so to speak, I found that it no longer became difficult and that, if anything, I slept better, although typically for somewhat shorter periods with fewer dreams (subjectively seems like a shorter period of deeper sleep as compared with sleep after a recent-ish orgasm; it can also start to feel like light-yet-refreshing sleep, which may be the early stages of “witnessing” sleep Yogani has referred to). By gradually pushing the comfortable boundary, I found I was able to get to 2-3 weeks, though around 3 weeks I tended to feel irritable. I have somewhat fallen back from that level in recent years, like I mentioned, tending to end up around 2 weeks, though sometimes managing to go a bit longer.

In regards to your question about tantric sex, there is an extent to which it is just an understanding I have with my wife. When I met my wife, I was already practicing AYP and some degree of brahmacharya, so when our relationship became sexual, I simply told her that I preferred not to have an orgasm every time. She found this a bit unusual at first, but largely did not mind and even seemed to enjoy it better in some ways, because it allows for more prolonged sex–e.g., having sex for a little while, taking a short break, and then beginning again. I do not necessarily take it super slow or anything like that, though occasionally I might pull out or intentionally slow down a bit/ask her to slow down if I feel like I am losing control when I don’t want to.

That is, I did not change the way I had sex a great deal when I shifted to favoring pre-orgasmic sex; I mostly just had sex as I usually would but slowing down or stopping if I felt I was coming too close to the edge. Perhaps a degree of tantric masturbation “practice” (the counting method Yogani describes) may have been involved. That sort of practice I mostly only do if I am planning to have an orgasm that day because a high level of stimulation like that increases the probability I will find it difficult to maintain brahmacharya. Related to that, I also generally only look at porn if I am intending to have an orgasm that day. A milder level of manual stimulation I may do on days when I have had an orgasm relatively recently because there is then less risk of getting overstimulated, but not while looking at porn. The combination of manual stimulation and porn I think leads very easily to the point where one would feel uncomfortable maintaining brahmacharya.

Overall, if the goal is to increase the length of time between orgasms, which I think you’ve seen the value of, the best way I’ve found besides just making a conscious effort not to look at porn or engage in sexual stimulation, is to just keep very busy. Like the example of myself going on a high school trip where I was almost constantly occupied and rarely alone, such circumstances make not thinking about sex easier. Increasing the level of exercise you do as the time since last orgasm increases can also help, as it seems to “burn off” some energy.

When I do have orgasms, if by myself, I almost always block them using the finger technique Yogani describes but have given up trying to do so on those occasions when I do have an orgasm during sex. I used to try to do that during sex as well, but always found it rather awkward, both in terms of being a lot to try to think about while having sex with a partner and because it seems to work better mechanically for me when the hand is coming around the front, rather than the back.

Interestingly, I find tantric sex slightly less of an obstacle to brahmacharya maintenance than porn and masturbation. Something perhaps not everyone is aware of: masturbation is typically a stronger level of physical stimulation than e.g., oral or vaginal sex. Sex is usually more enjoyable primarily because of the mental aspect–the greater richness of sensation, the eroticism of being with a partner, etc.

I think this fact might also relate to the gradual development of natural vajroli, “inner lovemaking,” outpouring divine love, etc. Physical stimulation of the genitals is pleasurable and stimulates the energy, but it also tends to increase the desire for genital orgasm, perhaps by concentrating energy, blood, etc. in the area. Lovemaking with a partner, by contrast, may still involve a fair amount of physical stimulation of the genitals, but tends to be a more full-body experience, and also more of a mental experience, with the pleasure deriving from the connection with the other person, the eroticism of the thoughts, etc.

Eventually, we start to feel this energy more evenly throughout the body and start to feel a kind of ecstatic love for things without any sexual stimulation, nor much, if any erotic tinge. We may feel something like an “orgasm” in the heart area, for example, but it does not increase the desire for genital orgasm; in fact, it may even lessen it somewhat because there is a sense of the ecstatic energy moving throughout the body rather than building up in the genitals. This, in turn, seems to sometimes manifest in a feeling of loving things without cause or, in my experience something like “loving things just for being what they are.” I do not feel this all the time, but have found it something I experience from time to time, and increasingly as I continue AYP.

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