Hi all,
In one of my ealier post on ecstatic conductivity (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1634) some of you mentioned the Chi Machine. I think it would be nice to collect all the available, reasonably reliable products for stimulating/ smoothing out kundalini. (whether they are truely effective or not 
)
First, my thoughts on a yoga practice which may be practiced more safely and effortlessly using technology (IF the original yoga practice does work, a big “IF”): there is a practice in kundalini yoga where the yogi sit in padamasana, lift himself up with his hands, and then bump his hip to his ground. This is said to be stimulating and can raise the kundalini. But every reasonably educated man will see the risks here. Now I am think about puting on a vibrator at the lower spine/hip bone. Or, if possible, at the perinium. Water therapy with emphazis on the lower spine/hip bone may be a better but less convenient choice.
What do you guys think?
Now, my thoughts on the Chi machine.
I knew the Chi Machine when I was a kid, and some of my family members are still using it from time to time. But I was then skeptical of its effects and didn’t use it for more than 5 times.( By the way, my family doesn’t seem to have a awakened kundalini, nor did they report any special experiences.)
I may give it some try again in the near future. Here is my thought NOW: Part of its effects may be (just may be) explained by the change in blood flow, and the sudden contrasts felt by your nerves when you end your session. If you try placing your fingers onto a really fast vibrating machine for a few minutes, you will feel the same thing at your hand and fingers.
If you come up with any thoughts, or if you know any other technological aids for yoga practices, please share with us!
Alvin
p.s.
This post seems fit equally well into the science and yoga forum, I am putting it here just because of the greater attention it will get here!!
Hi Alvin,
I had previously posted about the “Chi Machine”. I suppose that the reason that it produces ecstatic conductivity is that it make you very relaxed (which is when kundalini is most prominent) and that it is gently massaging the entire spinal column. It loosens up, aligns and stimulates the spinal column. I think that it could be an effective tool to activate ecstatic conductivity but once you have it flowing I am not sure that the machine is useful to progress further.
It certainly is a wonderful feeling when you finish using the Chi Machine. Sort of a full body orgasmic feeling.
With Peace,
Paul
Hi Alvin and Paul,
I may be entirely wrong on this but my intuition tells me that using external machinery for raising kundalini or shakti is much like using drugs: external forcing of something that will go much more naturally and in balance in your own time when doing the practices within (pranayama/meditation).
Just my 2 cents:-)
Hi yogini,
I’ve mistaken you as yogani not just once, at least at my first glance. I’m glad that you don’t add “the guru is in you” 
I doubt whether such machines can help raising the kundalini. But if it does, using such machines(I mean, at least the mechanical ones) will be very much like practising. Here we are not changing our biochemistry with drugs, which is very violent to our body. The vibrators or things like chi machine will act only as catalysts, stimulating our body to do its own job just as acupuncture.
If you think that it is unnatural, yes it is. So is pranayama and practices like Yoni Mudra. All such things are not natural in the sense that most people are not born with these knowledge.
Just as we can use a pair of socks to create similar effects of siddhasana in a modern and sometimes better way, so can we do the same for other yoga practices. Of course I’m not saying that they work (I don’t even know if certain yoga practices work). Many experiments have to be done, that’s why I started this thread for discussion.
Alvin
I agree with Alvin. Nicely said.
Dear Alvin,
I think you raise an excellent point: comparing the naturalness (or unnaturalness) of machines to pranayama’s naturalness (or unnaturalness). I have often wondered how mankind (or the rishi’s of ancient India:-) discovered these techniques… they are timetested in India, that’s one thing but not the point here. But there is a difference, Pranayama works WITH the internal body structures, whereas machinery gets in from the outside and works upon (i.e. not within) the bodystructures.
I wonder if I should change my login name… I don’t mind, can you think of another cute one for me?
Best!
Hi yogis
I’m thinking that the “movements” of pranayama are completely natural and in fact a part of what we are. We just aren’t used to using them consciously to return to Self. Any thoughts ?
Yogini, I’ll ponder name choices for you
Alan
I agree, I think they are natural.
Everything is natural, it only appears not to be the case when you have a certain reference point.
Everything is natural under their conditions.
It is healthy though for the mind and body to create a reference point in their mind and draw a line between what is natural/healthy vs unnatural/unhealthy for them and theirs.
Not mean to disagree here, but I don’t think a discussion of whether something is “natural” or not, which is purely semantical in nature, is of much use for us.
Seems much more useful for us here to discussion the effects directly, if they have any obvious effects at all. That is, at least in principle, something verifiable, rather than our personal opinions on what is “natural” which is very subjective and thus cultural-background-dependent.
Hi All,
That which is Natural is “cultural-background-dependent”. That definitely is wisdom to ponder which I will bear in mind Alvin, thank you! I’m sorry to have no experience to share re blissmachines!
Balance: have you come up with something yet? In the first half of my meditation this morning I came up with the idea that I could use my normal name (sometimes I seem to use meditation for figuring out The Big Problems of my life, grin, as in “purification of the brain otherwise cluttered with Problems” But in the endpart all of a sudden a thought rose up by itself which said that I shouldn’t do that for now as I will probably feel less free to say whatever it is that I might think of:-)
Have a great weekend!
Hi Yogini
Gosh, this is tough in that I don’t know you. How about “natural”? I see you are an astrologer, how about “starmudra”?Or “starchild”? “yogastar” or “yoginstar”? “Sky”? You said you wanted a cute one, how about “cute one”? Boy, tell me if I’m way off track and maybe narrow me in to some ideas.
One who goes by the name of Alan
Well, I personally like Yoginstar for her, so there’s my vote! 
I have used a chi machine before and it helps with back pain and keeps the circulation and lymphatics moving, but I really have to question whether it has an effect on kundalini. There is a nice “buzz” afterwards, but I think that is the extent. But hey, if you get your kicks by calling it ecstatic conductivity, then more power to you!
Highest Blessings,
comdyne
Hi
That was my take on one of those machines. I only used it once, though, before I was doing pranayama.
Hey, yoginstar is my fav too 
I like “Yoginstar” too.
Nice observations But I prefer not to add power in that way!
Thank you guys!
yoginstar it is!
Now how do I delete the Yogini membership I wonder… I read the FAQ but I guess no one ever undoes their memberhsip here… , I did read how to get smiley’s though [:-)}
Yoginstar,
AYP moderator here. It is a good thing that your name does not look like Yogani, and the moderators are happy to help you with that, however, we have a better solution than closing your old membership. Please continue to use “Yogini” for a few days. It is possible to change your handle to “Yoginstar”, so all your “old” posts are still yours. Please don’t post under “Yoginstar”, for these reasons.
Does that make sense?
Hi Yoginstar:
Your old ID can be changed by an admin to the new one if you like (it would change on all the old posts too). The new Yoginstar name would have to be changed or deleted first. Let me know. We’d not like to lose your great posts from before, by whatever name.
The guru is in you.
Good name, Yoginstar. I have experienced the same thing as Alvin, sometimes confusing your name with Yogani’s.
I agree with Alvin and Kyman about “Natural” and “Unnatural” and can add a little more. They are basically “weasel-words”, sneaking something in below the radar of reason. When you shine the light of reason on them, the real content of “natural” (as opposed to “unnatural”) breaks down.
If you say something is “natural”, what you are saying is not much more than that you approve of it in some way, having as you do some personal/cultural comfort with it, which may be born of nothing more than familiarity. Likewise, “unnatural” really only indicates the reverse; you are expressing some disapproval, having as you do some subjective personal/cultural discomfort with it.
So “natural”, while really not much more than a marker of a kind of subjective approval, is often presented as a reason to approve. But stating approval is never the same as stating reasons to approve. However, when people hear “it is unnatural”, they think that they have heard a reason to disapprove of it. They actually haven’t, they have only heard disapproval being stated, without reasons. So it is a weasel-word in the sense that it sneaks something in below the radar of reason.
Yoga is actually all about catalyzing and awakening innate deep skills and functions in the body/mind/spirit. There is no point in talking about whether our methods of catalyzing and awakening them are natural or unnatural or not, only how effective they are.
By the way, we don’t seem to have any effective drugs for doing the function of Yoga, that is catalyzing yogic processes. However, there is no reason that they won’t be discovered some time, maybe in decades to come. The only useful debate if and when such things are discovered is what is the cost/risk/benefit/effectiveness of such substances, taken individually in their own merits, not whether they are natural or unnatural or not, since nothing humans ever do or use can rightly be categorized either way.
If a pill shows up that starts a major yogic purification, I’m all for it. Perhaps if it does, then all these principles of self-pacing will carry over to the use of such drug.
However, I’m not holding my breath waiting for it to show up.
Hi guys
When I said I thought pranayama was natural I was refering to the fact that these actions (breathing, the movements of prana & etc.) are all part of our creation and who we are as manifestations. Pranayama and meditation is like following an innate path to the source that breathes us. Just my take on it.
Peace, Alan
BTW, I’m not putting down the use of the words “natural” or “unnatural”. They certainly have their place – we just have to understand their limits. ( On the other hand, there is a specific meaning of “natural” which is never really problemmatic, which is in the sense of being easy and instinctive for the body-mind. )
The problematic usages occur when people believe the words say something conclusive and decisive in themselves; in other words believe that they effectively turn a case for or against something. In practice, I think that problematic use of “unnatural” is much more common than problematic use of “natural”: the problematic use of “unnatural” occurs when someone puts something down as “unnatural” as if that has provided a reason that that something is bad. A problemmatic use of the word “natural” is probably less common – or tyically less problematic.
Examples of usages of “unnatural” that I think problematic, and relevant to us here, is applying the term “unnatural” to yoga postures, as if that in itself decides that they are bad or inappropriate; or to meditation (yes, it gets done!); or to tantric sexual practices; or to amaroli; or to frenum-snipping.