Silence Speaks

[yogani]

Hi All,

It used to be that posting getting quiet in the forum was a concern. But after 20+ years, maybe just about every possible support scenario has been covered multiple times. So while the forum still sees a lot of traffic, pulling up various support scenarios documented over many years, that may result in less new posting being necessary. Not that we do not welcome new inquiries and discussions. We certainly do. There are a lot of AYP practitioners out there, and it is great to hear from you all anytime. So bring it on!

One of the strange things about the forum is that in some other communities, AYP is sometimes labeled as being “unsafe” because of the difficulties some people have that are reported and discussed in the forum. It is a “support forum” after all, and that is why we have it. What others looking from the outside may not realize is that there are thousands who have been using the AYP teachings over the years who don’t need support and we rarely or never hear from them in the support forum. It is a teaching for “self-directed” practitioners after all. Many have taken that to heart, and it is wonderful.

So is it fair to say AYP is “unsafe” when the small minority of practitioners having difficulty is reporting here, as they should, while the thousands not having any serious difficulty, and growing in abiding inner silence and ecstatic bliss are not sharing their experiences very much here?

Bottom line: While the forum has been around for many years, covering a wide range of support scenarios, it is only the tip of the large iceberg encompassing the application of AYP by thousands of self-directed practitioners around the world.

Perhaps it would help new visitors to the forum understand AYP better if more of the positive experiences many are having could be shared as well. Silence speaking up can provide a more balanced view on the bigger picture of the whole of AYP.

Just a suggestion… Thanks!

The guru is in you.

[Drystone (Tom Allsop)]

Hey Yogani,

Ive been doing this for only 4 years and had some really amazing experiences. I think you are right about sharing positive experiences, but as a practitioner I am careful not to ‘brag’ about experiences to others, just in case I unintentionally start to create attachment to these experiences. I think this is one of the reasons that people tend to not talk so much about the experiences they have. I usually only tend to talk about experiences to friends (I am lucky enough to have open minded friends) , unless I start to have problems (at the moment it’s all about entity attacks for me! - there ya go with the scary stuff!!!), then I’m like “Tristan!!! Help please!!! (Taps away on keypad)”

[elderberry]

I am certainly one of those people who is silently and happily working through their practices, without too much fanfare or need for asking questions in the forum.

When I initially read through all the AYP books, I made my fair share of posts on the forum, seeking guidance on the many questions I had. However these days, I don’t feel much of a need to post. I believe this is for two reasons:

1. The community (Tristan, especially), did such a swell job of answering any questions I had

2. AYP is the most comprehensive and intelligently laid out spiritual system I have ever come across. This is to say, if one has a question, chances are it’s covered somewhere in the lessons. As a random example, if one understands the concept of “scenery along the way”, that single concept innately answers a massive percentage of questions which tend to arise. Stack that up with concepts like self pacing and other powerful lessons, and you have a recipe for some fairly independent and self-guided practitioners.

However, in the spirit of helping new visitors, I am happy to share my personal experience.

In my experience, AYP is the real deal. It is absolutely mind boggling to step back and observe the change which has occurred in me since I started practicing AYP.

My experience has been a combination of practical, and ineffable.

In terms of practical results, it feels every day that passes is ever so slightly better than the last. Ever so slightly more peaceful and happy than the one that came before it. I truly never knew life could be so lovely.

In terms of the ineffable, that is a bit harder to describe. The ineffable is, by definition, tough to put into words. Prior to discovering AYP I had always considered myself to be a fairly logical and straightforward person. Very capable of putting my thoughts, desires and actions into words. However after walking the spiritual path for a few years, I find myself with an insatiable desire for union with a force that is rather difficult to describe. God, divine consciousness, pure awareness, inner silence, divine love. I believe these are all different names for the same thing.

The further I walk along the path, the closer I feel to the divine, and the more I crave union with “that”. It is both strange and beautiful so deeply longing for something, while simultaneously not being entirely sure what exactly that thing is. All I can say for sure is that the process of walking towards it infuses my life with a sense of joy, purpose and direction that I never had before. And for me, that is more than enough reason to continue walking the path.

I have a bit of a soft spot for reading spiritual biographies. Autobiography of a yogi, The journey home, books like these. Nearly all of these books seem to feature a long and romanticized period of “seeking”. That is, the spiritual aspirant seeking to find their preferred guru or spiritual system. This seeking, while a grand adventure in its own right, can often take years or decades before the aspirant lands on a system that works for them. They always get it in the end, but there is an immense amount of floundering and heartbreak along the way.

Every time I read one of these books, I can’t help but chuckle to myself. Through the discovery of AYP early on in my journey, I was somehow given the gift of skipping the search. I feel like AYP took 5,000 years of yoga, boiled it down to its most effective pieces, and served it up to me on a silver platter. That is a gift I will forever be grateful for.

The spiritual path, through the teachings of AYP, has become my north star in life. I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.

[RichD (Rich)]

In terms of AYP being “unsafe,” I actually found the AYP program after a Google Search lead me to understand that I was experiencing overload symptoms after 4 years of dutifully following the SRF practices. I in no way want to disparage Yogananda here, but I am still stunned that nowhere in the literally thousands of pages of his teaching that I poured over are any cautions about overload given, or steps to take if a devotee experiences overload. It is inconceivable to me that, given all the devotees he personally worked with, he never had a follower struggle in this area.

So perhaps the AYP forum has so many voices of struggling meditators, because other practices are strangely silent about the difficulties that may accompany a spiritual awakening?

Just a thought.

Again, not to disparage any system. Just to explain why I am here, and why I have shared my own overload experiences.

Thank you for this open forum!

[RichD (Rich)]

Thank you for sharing that, elderberry. I am hopeful to return to the AYP practices after my meditations gain some stability. I am glad to hear that things are going so well for you!

[yogic_scenary]

Kechari mudra was the single most profound non-drug experience I have ever had in my life. And no drug experience I have had has ever trumped that. And that is how I found AYP.

I could never thank Sir Yogani enough for the countless insane orgasms I have had through the blocking method. This was really groundbreaking experience which worked extremely well on repetition. When I do this, there is absolutely ecstasy at my penile end nerve endings and the semen rushes up body with warmth. I feel as though I have consumed an opioid.

There were times when I thought I was doing everything right, but remembered the concepts of ‘excess purification’ and ‘self-pacing’ which has been highlighted here, which gave me more insight towards grounding myself.

The holdback method too have been effective a lot of times for grounding.

I practiced deep meditation as described in the lesson and really had a great experience - when I used to practice that I used to goto a sort of grounded witness state with some kind of energy surrounding me. I only stopped meditation because the environment and people around me were too aggressive and the purification was making me too gentle (that’s never a bad thing, but when dealing with worldly affairs assertiveness can be beneficial). When I really assess why, it’s not even that actually, I honestly felt I didn’t have much energetic support which was why I used to become a flower - which is also a great milestone according to HYP (one becomes as gentle as a lotus stalk) . The lack of people’s energetic support stemmed from their expectations of material success of me, but I held my own as much as possible because I had experienced the ecstasy Yoga firsthand and it was not some idealistic fantasy (this is obviously a discussion of it’s own suited for this forum’s topic ‘Yoga and Money’). There were many people who saw the Yogi in me and empowered me energetically and not mention the temples - and this is when I realised, it’s not so much the side effects of the practice but my interactions with different people and environments which shaped how balanced I was. Of course Yoga promises independence from all this and a balanced mind irrespective of what is.

I believe success in Yoga and also grounding is rooted in the ‘Yamas’ and ‘Niyamas’ as much, if not more than the practices. These can be challenging when dealing with worldly affairs and many people may blame the practice instead.

The lessons in this website are a great expansion to Hatha Yoga Pradipika which I practice, tweaked for a modern day practitioner.

Sometimes even simple things like ‘coffee’ has me going with wild vibrations. And coffee never existed in ancient India so I come here and find that I can relate to other practitioners with similar effects and their view on the experience.

[jzatopa]

I’ve never heard anyone say this forum was unsafe. If anything it’s been a safe place for me to send people who need help.

[SeySorciere]

Silence truly speaks! I have had plenty of moments when I have come to the forum with some topic on my mind, wishing to share some insights but then words completely fail me - rather, the mind is transcended and thoughts, words are unavailable. So, I give up and hope to post another day.
What does a transcended mind feel like? Spontaneous, open-space clarity. Depending on the depth of this clarity, silence…
Reality…

AYP is great !!

[qspadone]

Great topic.

For me personally, it helps knowing where deep meditation (and spinal breathing) are supposed to be taking me in terms of inner experience (milestones).

I find Lessons 35 and 85 very helpful for that matter.

A few quotes from Lesson 35 (Enlightenment Milestones):

• Awakening of the life force in the body,
• Gradual refinement of sensory perception,
• The senses are opened in an inward direction, enabling us to perceive the ecstatic energies coursing within and around us,
• New and captivating kind of experience,
• Increased desire to enter and merge with the deepening sensory experience
• Falling into an endless abyss of ecstasy,
• Our attention becomes absorbed in the ever-present living beauty moving beneath the surface of all things,
• Boundaries are dissolving.

And from Lesson 85 (Enlightenment Milestones Revisited):

• Prana going into a greatly expanded mode of functioning in our nervous system,
• Sexual energy going up,
• Pure bliss consciousness, deep silence, in motion inside us,
• Expansion of sensory experience into the ecstatic realms.

I’d be interested to hear what advanced practitionners have to say about that. Have they experienced the above “symptoms”? If so, how long after starting meditation? And what’s it like, in your own words?

[qspadone]

I still can’t find the edit button, so I’ll double post.

In my previous post, most of the quotes I’ve extracted are from the description of the second stage of enlightenment.

I didn’t even consider extracting quotes from the description of the first stage of enlightenenment, which is about the rise of inner silence, and the inner stability that it comes with.

And the topic is literally called “silence speaks”, not “ecstasy speaks”.

So, I’m also definitely interested in hearing stories about how the rise of inner silence has played a significant role in practionners lives, even before any ecstatic experiences arose, and whatever else they would like to share about that.

Cheers.

Lesson 35 - Enlightenment Milestones. “First comes the rise of silence from regular meditation. It is also experienced as an increasingly steady state of peace, happiness and bliss. Most of all it is experienced as an inner stability that is not shaken by any outer experience. Inner silence is the foundation for further experiences that are facilitated by additional advanced yoga practices that awaken the silence of pure bliss consciousness to a dynamic state in our nervous system.”

Lesson 85 - Enlightenment Milestones Revisited. “The first stage is the rise of silence in the nervous system. Deep silence is the essential nature of pure bliss consciousness. It is absolute stability. Nothing moves it. It is like a solid rock foundation that comes in under everything we are and do. It is the essence of who we are. It comes primarily from meditation, and is the source of the inner peace and unshakable security we experience as we advance along the spiritual path. It is our immortal being, and its rise in our nervous system serves as the foundation for all other spiritual development.”

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

I’d be interested to hear what advanced practitioners have to say about that. Have they experienced the above “symptoms”? If so, how long after starting meditation? And what’s it like, in your own words?

Hi qspadone,

I have experienced all of those symptoms over the years. In terms of giving a timeline, that is not so easy to do. This is because, for many of them, they are not switched on like a light bulb. Often, they will come only in fleeting glimpses at first, quite infrequently. Then there can be periods of time where little or nothing seems to be happening. And then later on, they manifest more frequently and more strongly, or even intensely. Eventually they all become permanent.

But, just to give some rough idea of timescales on my own journey, I first experienced:

• Spontaneous nirvikalpa samadhi at the age of 12, which was around a year before I began meditation practice.
• The ability to see into other dimensions at the age of 19.
• The awakening of kundalini (Awakening of the life force in the body) at the age of 21.
• Unconditional love around the age of 32.
• Whole-body ecstasy around the age of 34.
• The production of amrita in the body around the age of 34.
• The opening of the crown around the age of 35.
• The unity of all existence and the presence of the divine, everywhere, as everything, around the age of 35.

I am now 55 years old, and the journey over the last 20 years has been just as eventful as the first 20 years. It is just that at some point it becomes impossible to describe the experiences that are taking place using words. Or, if it can be done, it becomes increasingly abstract and more like poetry than prose. And whether it is necessary to describe it at all, becomes questionable. If people get to the top of the waterfall, then they will go over the edge. They don’t need a roadmap after that!

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Hi qspadone,

P.s.

For the edit button, look at the bottom of your post, after you have posted it, and you will see a small pencil icon. That is the edit button. It is the same on a laptop and phone. The edit window is 7 days.

[yogani]

@Christi

For the edit button, look at the bottom of your post, after you have posted it, and you will see a small pencil icon. That is the edit button. It is the same on a laptop and phone. The edit window is 7 days.

Note: If you don’t see the edit pencil at the bottom of your post, tap the three dots there. Then you will see it.

Thanks all for sharing!

The guru is in you.

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Hi all,

p.s.

It looks as if the edit post button is currently not showing for almost all members. We are looking for a fix.

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Hi all,

p.p.s.

That issue is fixed now so everyone should be able to edit their own posts.

[driftwood]

I rarely post, but I’ll share my experiences in case they help anyone. When I first began meditating daily, I wasn’t exactly a fan. It felt unnatural, and it was hard to sit still each day. But I kept going, trusting that it would get better over time. I also started with a friend, and we meditated together every day. Having that accountability partner made a huge difference, and I highly recommend finding someone to start the journey with you. Realistically, I think my practice would have fizzled out long ago without that support.

I’m now about three years into AYP, and while things have gotten better on the mat, it’s not what I initially imagined. I don’t find my sitting practice as unpleasant anymore, but I still have to push myself to do it daily. I do it because the off-the-mat benefits (which I attribute directly to these practices) have been mind-blowing. I was already pretty happy, but my overall happiness, satisfaction, and peace have skyrocketed. On the mat, I’ve gotten small glimpses of where this might lead—experiences I once thought only possible with drugs. It’s hard to explain, but I can feel the love that everything is moving toward, even though the path is still blurry. That feeling feeds my bhakti and makes me want more.

I used to care about how each meditation session went, judging how much silence I could cultivate versus how much monkey mind I experienced. Recently, I’ve stopped caring about that. I’ve accepted that I don’t fully understand how this works and that all I need to do is keep up my daily practice. Everything else will keep falling into place, just as it has so far. This acceptance lifted a huge weight off me.

Lately, I’ve really taken Yogani’s phrase “the guru is in you” to heart and decided to let my burning bhakti guide me past the recommended twice daily practices. I’m gradually adding practices until I reach the full plate (currently a little over an hour: Asanas, SB, Chin Pump, DM, Samyama, YMK, and Rest) and have increased to three full sitting sessions a day. I’m slowly working up to full at-home retreat mode with four full-plate sessions daily. I add new practices and sessions as quickly as they settle and as my self-pacing allows, letting bhakti and self-pacing principles battle it out while I do as much daily grounding as possible to enable this.

Like Elderberry said, this has become my north star, guiding how I evaluate everything else. I’ve experienced so much more love, compassion, generosity, peace, and silent bliss in daily life—absolutely due to these practices. I’ve also had glimpses of infinite love, and after seeing a peek of that, it’s hard to rationalize chasing any finite pleasure at the expense of the infinite.

I saw the results of a survey from years ago, and I’d love for another one to come out soon. As “spiritual scientists,” I think we could learn a lot, and it might help shed light on silent practitioners who are also experiencing great results.

To Yogani, Tristan, and all the other helpful forum posters: thank you so much for giving my life some much-needed direction and providing such an amazing blueprint to follow.

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Hi Driftwood,

Thanks for sharing. It sounds as if everything is going very well! When we start to get a glimpse of real love, it does change everything. There is no going back after that!

I will put a link here to the survey results that you referred to in case others are interested. They are a few years out of date, so hopefully we can get them updated soon to 2025.

AYP Survey update March 2019 - Advanced Yoga Practices Int.

If anyone wants to fill in the survey it is here:

AYP Survey

[selfpaste]

Hello all,
I’ve been meaning to post on this topic sooner or later. I agree that we should highlight the good, and not have our minds full of the problems that sometimes might arise in spiritual practice. Even if those are often what gets people posting on the forum. So it’s great that this topic has been active!

Ever since finding AYP, I’ve had this feeling that ‘these people are onto something’. A strange certainty, that if I were to keep practicing as I have been doing, it would change everything. Yes, I was a bit skeptical when first finding the lessons. And I’ve also had times since then, where I’ve been really focused on some other thing in my life, where I had some doubt, yet at the same time I kept practicing.

I feel that after seeing AYP for what it really is, there was no going back anymore. We have been giving the tools to really ‘scale up’ the practice with advanced pranayamas after spinal breathing, if we want to go faster - and at the same time we have the deep meditation part balancing the intensity. This combo is an amazing, beautiful insight.

So we have this gas pedal, but at the same time an understanding that we have a maximum capacity for spiritual practice (self-pacing). And I believe that whoever is dedicated and has the bhakti, can get close to this theoretical maximum capacity, while staying well below it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that most people would hit this maximum safe capacity if they were to do 5 minutes of advanced pranayama after spinal breathing and before meditation (and samyama after). (Perhaps not those of you doing three practice sessions )

So, this really is an efficient approach to spirituality, although we have to take care to use it properly, since the dynamics involving self-pacing take some time to actually get used to. Of course, a whole different discussion would be whether there is any need of trying to go as fast as safely possible I’ve had some really good inner silence experiences, that came only after my thirst for going quicker had finally settled down.

I’ve been blessed to somehow have had some understanding of what AYP really was, when I first found it. And I wish that more people around me also had the same understanding. Perhaps there is something to the idea of finding it at the right time in the right place.

Thank you for reading all of this

[Mithuna]

Hi all.

Having had the chance to follow a Spiritual Master from a young age, I find both in the techniques addressed but also in the overall way of putting them into practice a great convergence. My Master always insisted that “The incarnate Master leads to the Inner Master” responding to the conclusion of each letter of Yogani “The Guru is in You”. I find in Yogani’s “self pacing” his advice full of common sense, always seeking the balance between my spiritual life and my human destiny by distrusting any excess in one direction or the other, the goal being to transform ourselves deeply by taking into account everything we are.

Yogani continually insists on the use of the accelerator in a straight line and the brake on winding roads and I have noticed that few calls for support have gone unanswered, sincere and thoughtful answers. The yoga taught in AYP is not abstract but traces the path of a Life towards Wholeness. Each chapter is well documented with questions and answers that anticipate the risks associated with any practice: any effective remedy can be dangerous if you don’t follow the prescription: don’t blame the doctor. While it is up to each individual to implement these practices in a personal way, their progress is well described.

Having also studied the Yoga Sutras extensively and participated in forums on this subject, I consider AYP to be a rigorous application of this wonderful but difficult text. Yogani internalized this text, lived it, extracted its essence and “set it to music” in Ayp by making it accessible in practical form. The basic practice of DM as taught by Yogani leading to the deeper and deeper establishment of the Inner Silence in us is both of great simplicity and of terrible effectiveness and can follow us all along the path perfectly putting into practice the definition of Patanjali’s Yoga “Yoga Chitta vritti Nirodha”.

As for the difficulty of expressing what we are experiencing, I believe that this sharing is also a form of Sadhana. Verbalizing and externalizing our experience is important, not only for those who read what we write and who can find elements or answers in our testimony, but also for ourselves: making the effort to give shape to our inner universe helps to purify it. I think that no matter how deep our spiritual experience may be and how full the silence it produces, it is always possible to “put the word on the silence” without harming that diamond that is the Inner Silence.