Hi selfonlypath,
think of the condition as active or inactive. When it’s active, there are triggering events (sleeping, eating, etc…): that’s why I mentioned the common ones.
What put the condition in the active state is either tantric practices or meditation.
In the old post of 2013 I had different hypothesis and I was puzzled by the event. I was assured that the appearance of semen in urine in vajroli is temporary, but it’s not: I think that since the old post was in 2013, we can both convene that enough time has passed for me to see if it resolves by itself.
Recently, I discovered the theories of the naturopath Robert Morse who has a youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/robertmorsend). He theorizes that the kidneys have a special function to filter the lymphatic system: he says that once this higher function is activated by a healthy diet and spirituality, one will start to pass mucus-like substances and sediments in urine. He observes that this phenomeon is not a temporary stage of purification, but something that repeats every day as the body needs to get rid of waste material.
It’s possible to find dozens of youtube videos of people who experience this condition. Here’s a few examples. Notice that in some videos, the fluid had some time to sediment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrWPKOWd_fg&t=70s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P9fPS7TvGA&t=48s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G0ZbyaCDW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBLbEhLt7m8&t=109s
That’s how your post retrograde ej. urination looks like, especially in video 1.
There are a few points to be addressed:
1)
the first one is that I don’t really need a special diet to get there and those people in the Morse community generally say that the diet alone didn’t work: they had to do some meditation.
2)
the second one is that in AYP teachings, this is a stage that is supposed to pass… but, ok… let just say that there’s not really a crowd of people confirming this experience in AYP forum. Rather, there are a lot of people outside of this community that claim the opposite: that the condition is permanent.
My conclusions are that this condition is produced by certain types of meditation. I don’t know for sure what it is, but it’s probably permanent, not difficult to achieve and IME not beneficial (there are those who reported hair loss even in the Morse community).
You can call it natural vajroli or kidneys detox: it’s the same thing.
Maybe we just need some science on this.
But I don’t really need to induce this condition in my body again to test what the substance is …since I’m not interested in hazardous meditation experiments and there are plenty of people who are experiencing this and can do the test. BTW, my urine has been tested recently and I’m perfectly fine, no strange sediments, etc…
Hi Vimala,
I can confirm for you that the appearance of sexual fluids in the urine, as a result of the process of automatic vajroli is temporary. It does not last forever. In my own case it lasted for around 15 years, but I do not remember exactly.
The length of time that it lasts for is a direct result of two things. The level of purification of your subtle neurobiology and the effectiveness of the spiritual practices that you are using. So, it will vary greatly from person to person.
Yogani discusses the process involved in moving beyond this stage here:
https://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14668#124290
“Regarding the upward ecstatic flow, there can be plateaus in that like any other aspect of yoga. You could be plateaued between natural physical vajroli without much contrasting upward ecstatic flow (most semen remaining in the urine) and physical vajroli with ongoing upward ecstatic flow (most semen being absorbed up through the neurobiology with little expelled in urine after half an hour or so). With a continuation of your practices, and keeping active in-between, you will inevitably move beyond any plateau. However, this would not mean a permanent loss of ability to ejaculate externally. Unless it does, of course. Yogis and yoginis come in all flavors, and there are those who would just as soon move beyond external sexual function entirely. They may be found in ashrams and other cloistered environments, often with vows of celibacy.” [Yogani]
In any case, it is not a relevant issue because the presence of sexual fluids in the urine, is not a medical issue. It is something that has been studied by the medical profession and they have concluded that there are no negative side effects, except in the rare case that I mentioned above, where someone has a zinc deficient diet.
It sounds as if you do experience the presence of something in your urine from time-to-time, but that you are not sure what it is, or where it is coming from? Secretions from the kidneys down into the bladder are not a part of the process of natural vajroli.
As you are healthy and well at the moment, my suggestion would be to do nothing for now. But if you do experience something in the future which concerns you, to get checked out by a doctor, to see if you can discover what is actually happening.
Obviously on this forum we are not qualified to give medical advice.
best wishes,
Christi
Hi Christi,
thank you for sharing your experience.
At times, it was something rising from muladhara and at other times no inner movements were perceived.
I’m aware that secretions from the kidneys down to the bladder are not part of natural vajroli, but I don’t assume that our perceptions of internal movements accurately describe the intricacies of what’s really going on.
We use paradigms to talk about inner reality, just like the ancient yogis who devised dozens of different and incoherent chakra systems and methods of meditation.
Actually, I find the mere idea of practicing for years with semen being released into the bladder to be extremely uncomfortable to bear. 
Maybe this is my limit, but yet I can’t really imagine how Yogani could have gone through all of this without being worried as this was an entirely new ground: in that situation, I would have abandoned the practice.
IMHO, tt would feel much better to discover that it’s just waste materials and mucus: I hope that scientific analysis will be done someday.
Hi Vimala,
To be honest I have never experienced any discomfort from any aspect of the processes involved with the nectar cycle, including automatic vajroli. The early stages are a bit strange, but the higher stages involving the production of amrita at the crown chakra are very ecstatic and intoxicating.
As for Yogani, he was certainly not treading any new ground. People have been practising yoga for thousands of years, with many people going through the alchemical transformation and experiencing amrita. So, he was just following in the footsteps of the thousands who have gone before. Of course, not everyone can do it. There are many transformations that happen on the path, on the physical, emotional and mental levels and not everyone can cope with the whole process. There is a great deal that we have to let go of, during the process of awakening, including our ideas about what is supposed to happen. This is why enlightenment has always been for the few, rather than the many.
Christi
Hi Christi,
I believe that there’s still a lot of mystery around the potential of human mind and while many things are mentioned and possibly misinterpreted in ancient texts, the value of modern experience is invaluable.
For example, vajroli is mentioned very briefly in Shiva Samhita with little details and an high chance of being a fabulous invention of some ancient writers. To actually go through it and experience what it is, requires some bravery in my opinion.
Another question could be, is it true that Amrita promotes physichal rejuvenation?
I love the book “Roots of Yoga” which IMHO is very informative and gives a fresh perspective about the source of modern practices.
Hi Vamila,
This is an extract from the Shiva Samhita [14th-17th Century AD]:
“Vajroli-mudra
Actuated by mercy for my devotees, I shall now explain the Vajroli-mudra, the destroyer of the darkness of the world, the most secret among all secrets.
Even while living according to his wish and without conforming to the regulations of Yoga, a householder can become emancipated, if he practices the Vajroli-mudra.
This Vajroli Yoga practice liberates, even when immersed in his senses; therefore it should be practiced by the Yogi with great care.
First, according to the proper methods, let the wise yogi bring into his own body the generative power from the female organ of generation, by absorption through the phallus; restraining his semen, let him practice copulation.
When his sexual power is aroused, let him move his phallus. If by chance the semen begins to move, let him stop its emission by the practice of the Yoni-mudra.
Let him withdraw the semen to the left, and withdraw from intercourse. After a while, let him continue it again.
Following the guidance of his instructor and by uttering the sound hum, hum, let him absorb through the contraction of the Apana Vayu, the creative elements of the yoni.
By means of this practice, the Yogi, worshipper of the lotus-feet of his Guru, should obtain quick success in Yoga and drink celestial nectar [amrita].
Know semen to be lunar and the seed is solar; let the Yogi unite them in his body [through this practice].
I [Shiva] am the semen, Sakti is the generative fluid; when they are [perfectly] combined in the body [through this practice], then the body of the Yogi becomes divine.
Ejaculation of semen brings death, preserving it within brings life. Therefore, one should make sure to retain the semen within.
One is born and dies through semen; in this there is no doubt. Knowing this, the Yogi must always preserve his semen.
When the precious jewel of semen is mastered, anything on earth can be mastered. Through the grace of its preservation, one becomes as great as me [Shiva].
The use of semen determines the happiness or pain of all beings living in the world, who are deluded [by desire] and are subject to death and decay.
This is the ultimate Yoga. Even though immersed in the world of the senses, one can reach perfection through its practice.
Without a doubt, through this practice the Yogi will acquire all kinds of powers, while at the same time enjoying the ecstasies of the world.
This Yoga can be practiced along with much enjoyment; therefore the Yogi should practice it.
… I [Shiva] have revealed this Yoga because of love for my devotees. It should be guarded well with the greatest care, and not be given to everybody.
It is the most secret of all secrets that ever were or shall be; therefore let the prudent Yogi guard it carefully.”
That is a pretty clear description of the tantric sexual processes involved with the holdback method and even includes a variation on the blocking method, using the eyes to momentarily reverse the apana vayu, rather than the fingers to block at the perineum.
It does not go into much detail about what happens, other than to say that a yogi who is successful at this will experience amrita and gain many powers. It does also say that mastery of this process will lead to perfection (siddha) and emancipation (moksha).
What is not mentioned here, is that the culmination of this process will only work for someone who has purified their body through the practices of pranayama and meditation. The process involves the production of amrita at the crown, which requires the crown chakra to be activated, purified and stable. And the activation of the crown chakra requires the first 6 chakras to be purified and stable.
At the same time, the whole process requires the yogi or yogini to be submerged in inner silence, to be stable and effective and to lead to liberation. So it is actually just one part of a much bigger process which is yoga.
It is not uncommon for the older texts to take one aspect of yoga and to present it as if it is sufficient on its own. Even today, that can still happen in some schools of yoga.
The text does say that the body will become divine, but does not say anything about physical rejuvenation. My experience is that people do not become younger. But they do become younger at heart and more loving, which is actually the real goal of yoga. It begins in the heart. Then the alchemical process moves all the way up through the body to the crown of the head. Then it ends in the heart.
Christi
As an old dog, so true! Christi, I no longer expel semen as my prostate has been removed, but my understanding is that even though I don’t physically lose semen, orgasm is still ‘the little death’ and loss is there, yes?
Hi Dogboy,
That depends. Once you are at the stage where you are able to feel the flows of energy in your body, then you can determine for yourself if you are losing prana or not. If you feel an energetic loss, then yes, you are losing prana. If you don’t, then you aren’t.
In the higher stages of the path, both yogis and yoginis are able to experience orgasm all of the time 24/7, without any energy loss. So, it really depends on the state of purifcation of your subtle neurobiology.
You may find this topic useful:
Q & A on automatic vajroli and the nectar cycle
Christi
Hi Christi,
I believe that ancient Yoga Texts cannot be considered reliable instruction manuals for a number of reasons spanning from the abundant use of poetic images and repetitive refrains (es. “…conquer death and gain all Siddhis”, etc…) with no purposes other than make the text more elegant to the obvious absence of a physical Guru. The limits of yoga texts were probably known to the authors themselves who instruct the seekers to find the Master of the art and receive instructions.
Far from giving excessive credit to the claims of those ancient poets, I believe that talentend individuals can conquer the Art in the modern age without a Guru. But for the same reasons that prevent me from blindly accept the dogmatic belief in the necessity of a physical master, I can reasonably consider that engaging the practices described is done at my own peril with no guarantee of them being perfectly safe methods.
It is known that there were many yoga systems and not even Patanjali’s treatise was considered to be the bible of Yoga.
There were people getting sick doing pranayama and a lot of magic along the way.
Vajroli from the Shiva Samhita doesn’t compare to a detailed AYP lesson: if it doesn’t work, complain to Shiva, the author.
That should clarify my point as to why I beolieve that it requires bravery to investigate the yoga methods and how we are fortunate in having living yogis who practice those methods today.
The processes of the nectar cycle and the spiritual functions of the bladder are not described in ancient texts: we can even read tantric instructions that suggest the actual physical consumption of sexual fluids of the male and female combined in the yoni (vagina) after the coitus.
From my point of view, modern experience has more value than ancient scriptural compositions.
For example, a modern yogi could write a commentary of the Shiva Samhita… and that commentary would be more reliable than the actual medieval text.
But in the light of the discoveries of neurobiology, we know today that it’s possible to stimulate an area of the brain with electricity and produce the vivid impression of someone touching a specific body part… and much more.
The conclusion is that our brain is very capable of deceiving itself when it comes to the description of internal processes and conditions: the fact that placebo effects must be taken into account when performing experiments stands witness to the power of the brain in self-deception.
Therefore, when I read accounts and descriptions of internal events written by spiritual practitioners (for example, the philocalia), I try to consider the physical manifestations that lead to specific conclusions. For example, a christian monk says that he experienced supramundane love because the Holy Spirit descended from God and enlightened his soul… and a Yogi says that he experienced supramundane love because he did certain energy practices and was blessed by the shakti of his Guru.
In my opinion, the nectar cycle described by Yogani and experienced by many practitioners is a real spiritual transformation, but I can’t be sure of the details even if I experience it myself.
I believe that it’s possible to experience a detox of the lymphatic system and believe that a discharge of semen into the bladder has taken place: consider for example, how close to the spine the kidneys are.
My attention is shifted from the “how” to the “what”, so to speak: that’s why it’s relevant to me not to have bad side effects and know if something is supposed to pass or not.
This should clarify why I mentioned Robert Morse in a previous post.
I’ve read many refences to the throat chakra, kechari and amrita as being spiritual components producing longevity… that’s why I asked.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Hi Vimala,
I would certainly agree with you that the ancient texts are only of limited value. They are often incomplete in their descriptions and occasionally misleading. But they can be useful at times and a sourse of inspiration.
Much more valuable is a living teacher who has practised the techniques for him or herself, and experienced the fruits of the path.
You may find this lesson useful:
Lesson 57 - The Guru is in Me?
Christi
hi , i need someone to help me.
i’ve been practicing meditation couple of years and recently added tantric mastrubation , spinal breathing, moving energy upward etc.
one day i woke up and realized my testicles have shrunk and i cant get erection, i wasnt sexual at all, even mentally, i tried to watch porn but there was no reaction to it ( i gave up porn ,i watch it very rarely for past 2 years ), no libido at all. is this normal stage or medical condition ? is my sperm and energy literally absorbed ? after 2-3 days i really tried hard to get erection and ejaculate, which i did and only little sperm came out. i guess this was mistake. but problem is i am confused, i dont know what is happening and what to do since i have no one to guide me. i am more of a guy who practice a lot and rarely read litaerature and theory, i only understand basic general concepts.
have anyone experienced this ? please share some knowledge and advices, thanks in advance !
Road, Welcome to the forum. I have been doing the AYP practices for about a year so I don’t have the experience of many on the forum but it sounds like you have more than one thing going on here. If you truly have noticed your testicles have been smaller, I would recommend checking with a doctor as they are primary center of production of testosterone and that could account for your reduced libido, reduced ejaculate and erectile problems. Having said that, many young men (not sure your age) can have a great deal of anxiety around sexual function and that can lead to all sorts of problems as you describe. With respect to how this all relates to AYP practices it would be helpful to share some more details on what type of mediation practice you’ve been doing over the last couple years and how quickly you’ve added all of the more recent practices. Overdoing it on adding too much can cause energy imbalances that can affect sexual function indirectly.
hi interpaul, thank you 
i’ve been doing mindfulness and trataka combined with nofap for about 2 years. i started solo cultivation with spinal breathing 1 month ago and have done it everyday until 6 days ago when this problems occurred. i also did push ups, pull ups and dips everyday after meditation and cultivation practices.
tantric mastrubation (cultivation) without a doubt caused this condition. i went to doctor and he sent me for blood sampling and urine tests, minerals, all hormones etc. i must wait for results 2-3 weeks and then do ultrasound. im almost 28 years old and i never had this problems before. what bothers me most is not knowing whether this process is normal and good sign and did i interrupt it with ejaculation…or i screwed something up which led to this condition.
its day 6 and i still have same problems, testicles are maybe bit bigger but still smaller than they used to be, asexual state of mind, severe erectily dysfunction, even if i give my best i think i couldnt achieve erection nor get myself to ejaculate now.
i keep asking myself is this good thing happening, have i started automatic reabsorbtion process upwards, should i just wait and do other activities? i dont know where my energy is , where i sent it, is it clearing some pathways? is it stuck?
hi road
I remember a similar question was posted on the forum a while ago. Overdoing tantric practices before you have made enough progress with your meditation practice can cause problems like the one you describe. In your case, starting solo cultivation after 2 years of nofap might have tipped the balance.
The advice is to stop all practices for a while, ground and have a healthy life style.
Wait to see what the medical result is. If it is an energy imbalance, then grounding for as long as necessary will be the way to go.
Hopefully you’ll get more advice from the male yogis on this forum.
All the best
Road, I am glad to hear you had things checked out by a doctor. That will help rule out a physical cause of your symptoms. I have a few additional thoughts and then will see what the more experienced practitioners have to say. I came to AYP practices via a nofap path as a result of my own struggles with porn and many of the symptoms you describe. Many young men, you fit in that category, have erectile problems related to porn use. I’m sure you are familiar with the term porn induced erectile dysfunction. My personal take is tantric sexual practices can be problematic in individuals who have overstimulated themselves via pornography. Nofap/bramacharya is a tough path to do in your 20s. I would recommend staying away from porn and give your brain a month or two to recover from any component related to those practices. In the AYP community the focus is on building up practices slowly and favoring the less stimulating practices till after you’ve developed some inner silence. As such I would suggest reviewing Yogani’s teachings and consider just doing deep meditation without any other stimulating practices. I suspect in a few weeks you will feel a lot better, and I’m pretty sure your libido will return. You might review the website www.yourbrainonporn.com if you haven’t seen that site. Good luck.