Hi Vimala,
Yes, as we progress on the path, the natural sexual functioning of the body changes and the body becomes fully orgasmic 24/7. This does involve sexual fluids being drawn up into the bladder, continuously throught the day. In the beginning, this would be seen in the urine, but in the later stages it is not seen, as the sexual fluids are re-absorbed into the body. This is the case for both men and women.
With a healthy diet, there are no negative side-effects of this happening. The body becomes intoxicated and flooded with ecstasy throughout the day. Drops of ecstatic liquid can be felt dripping from the crown of the head. It is a stage on the path to awakening.
You may find this lesson useful:
Lesson T25 - Sri Vidya - The Fruition of Tantra
“But where does it all lead? What is the end of tantra? What is its fruition? In the main lessons, and here in the tantra lessons also, we have discussed the union of our inner polarities as being the end of all our yoga practice. There are many ways to describe this process - as many ways as there are spiritual traditions in the world. No matter how described, it is the same process of human spiritual transformation. On the level of our personal experience in the body it is the union of our blissful inner silence cultivated mainly in deep meditation, with our whole body ecstasy cultivated in spinal breathing and other pranayamas, mudras, bandhas and tantric sexual methods. On the level of tantric mythological metaphors it is the union of Shiva and Shakti, which corresponds to the direct experiences of silence and ecstasy just mentioned.
The rise of Shiva, Shakti and their final union everywhere within us make up the three stages of enlightenment - First, 24/7 inner silence. Second, 24/7 whole body ecstasy. And third, 24/7 ecstatic bliss, the joining of the divine polarities of silence and ecstasy, yielding an endless outpouring of divine love, which is unity. (24/7 means 24 hours per day, 7 days per week) If you imagine the rise of a conscious ecstatic resonance vibrating in every atom of your body, occurring between every nucleus and its surrounding electrons, you will have an idea of the depth of the transformation. It is an unending cosmic orgasm within every cell and atom in us.” [Yogani]
Christi
Hi Christi.
I can’t deny the reality of ecstatic spiritual transformations of this sort as I have experienced some of them on myself, but I’ve always found discrepancies between what “should happen” and what “actually happens”.
For example, it makes sense that at a certain point, with all of those interesting things going on, the bladder completely manifests the ability to absorb semen, but the reality is not consistent with theory.
A practitioner may say that since he experiences this and that (nectars, pleasurable sensations, etc…), as a consequence it must be true that the bladder is now absorbing semen.
But unless one physically observe each and every one of his urines (1)through the medium of a transparent glass (2) during the cycle of 24 hrs (which constitutes the natural human cycle), his assumptions are based uniquely on a theoretical perspective.
This precise theoretical perspective I’ve found to be inconsistent whith what actually happens.
I’ve never talked to anyone who physically tested this with a scientific approach as I did.
Therefore, it’s rational for me to assume that this approach to spiritual practice may be harmful to some degree and to a (supposed) minority of practitioners -if not to everyone-.
Since in this area we’re all responsibles for ourselves, no matter what has been suggested to us by other practitioners, it would be foolish for me to go through a physically debilitating stage sustained solely by the hope that it may eventually end some day.
Obviously, other practitioners may find themselves in different perspectives: here I’m talking about myself and my experiences.
It is possible to avoid the manifestation of orgasmic sensations (which are IME always associated with vajroli) and to proceed to a stage of deep love. That is done fundamentally by actively avoiding deep trance-like oblivious states and avoiding clinging to tactile sensations in the body. Meditation can be performed on the basis of emotion itself to achieve states of love intoxication where it’s impossible to contemplate any of the painful human emotions. There’s still sexual vitality and the sexual desire is as strong as usual, but somehow less interesting than pure love.
It’s not orgasmic bliss: it’s love bliss and it feels much better.
It’s not that difficult to achieve, but it proves challenging to stabilize.
Hi Vimala,
We only urinate a few times each day, so there are only a few occasions when we would need to observe things to know if there was semen in the urine or not. It is not that hard, but also does not matter. With a healthy diet it does not make any difference if the sexual fluids are expelled with the urine or absorbed by the bladder. It is simply an irrelevant aspect of life.
Orgasmic bliss can also be called whole body ecstasy and is a stage on the path. It forms a part of the cultivation of permanently abiding divine love, unity and freedom, which are higher stages.
You may find this lesson useful:
Lesson 113 - Bliss, Ecstasy and Divine Love
As a general note though, everyone is in charge of their own spiritual practice and has to find what works best for them. As you have discovered, cultivating particular states of consciousness is easy when we reach a certain stage in practice, but stabilizing them and making them a natural part of our life, can be more challenging.
Sometimes on the path, we simply have to weather the storms and move through what we fear. Putting up with a bit of discomfort at times can also be a part of the path. It is through the cultivation of whole body ecstasy and bliss and the merging that takes place between the two, that we reach a stable state of divine love 24/7.
It’s always your call though! 
Christi
No more AYP for me because retrograde spermatorrhea is way too scary. And in addition, there are no solid evidences that it’s a stage of the path and not a deliberately cultivated permanent condition.
Anyway, there’s one last bit of information that I want to share here for those who find themselves in troubles: how to heal.
Actually, it’s more appropriate to say “how to let the body heal itself”.
Consult your physician before trying this.
The body has the tendency and the power to heal itself.
The tricky part is that as long as retrograde spermatorrhea isn’t artificially interrupted for a period of -at least- 24 hrs, it won’t stop: it’s like a self-renewing illness.
The external events that trigger the manifestation of retrograde spermatorrhea are:
1)eating
2)sleeping
3)meditation
4)sex
The prerequisite is to avoid meditation and sex for the recovery period.
The method is simply to fast (don’t eat anything) and avoid sleep for 24 hrs.
Then, retrograde spermatorrhea won’t manifest and the body enters the recovery period in which it’s important to avoid meditation and sex. The minimum recovery period is 1 week.
Hi Vamila,
It is true that there is no solid evidence that what you are experiencing is a stage on the path. But, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence. After all, yoga has been practiced by millions of people over a period of thousands of years. If yoga caused people’s hair to fall out, then the world would be full of bald yogis! Even if it just caused some people’s hair to fall out, we would know about it by now. Enough people alive today can feel the inner winds and the effects of the inner winds on themselves and others, to know how they work and what they do, at every stage on the path.
On the subject of loss of sexual desire, have you ever heard a saint complaining that they lost their sexual desire? Can you find any reference to a saint complaining that they lost their sexual desire? There is a reason that there are no complaints, because it is simply not an issue. Sometimes on the path, we need to have faith, based on the experience of others who have gone before us.
Christi
Hi Christi,
I think we should consider to agree to disagree at this point because this starts to look like an endless cycle.
I have 2 practical questions regarding this topic.
Q1: does automatic vajroli manifest for any women wether she has never done meditation, tantra or other esoteric practices or does it require special training to also transform sexual energy for a women
Q2: for men, it is not clear to me that really semen is in-jaculated or vajroli transformed, where is the proof
After all maybe the sexual excitation is just about to reflexology or distance trigger another effect along the sushumna or central channel. This effect or experience seems to be attained by coupling or entering through other zones or main chakra or techniques. Of course, the sexual approach is vey strong and efficient if one does not ejaculate or whatever happens to a women (my first question).
Most of our bodies are similar on biology wether women or men except the genital parts and glands but at the end, for a yogi or yogini once cleared or opened or initiated the experience should be the same beyond duality.
To be honests, we can’t really be 100% sure that the turbid urine that we observe contains semen…
The important part is to make sure that this symptom doesn’t last, in my opinion.
Hi Selfonlypath,
I have never heard of a woman experiencing natural vajroli, without practicing yoga for a long time first. It usually happens only at advanced stages of practice. It is usually combined with other symptoms such as the production of a beautiful auroma, the tasting of a sweet sensation in the mouth and a minty sensation in the belly etc.
That is not to say that it could not happen without spiritual practices. In theory it certainly could, just as a kundalini awakening could happen for a woman without any spiritual practices being used.
Christi
To be honests, we can’t really be 100% sure that the turbid urine that we observe contains semen…
The important part is to make sure that this symptom doesn’t last, in my opinion.
Hi Vimala, If you are not sure if it is semen or not and you are concerned, then see a doctor. Doctors can test uring samples for the presence of semen. best wishes, Christi
Sorry I’m not english speaking so would like to know exactly what does mean physically sexual essence in this teaching of yogani https://www.aypsite.org/T60.html on natural vajroli.
Does semen or fluid generated by other glands are considered as sexual essence in this context wether a male and a female ?
Unless i’ wrong, the male besides semen which is not supposed to not even flow through deferent channels do have other fluid-gland generator, namely seminal vesical prostate Cowper’s gland. For the women, other gland and fluid generator, namely Skene Bartholin cervix.
Hi Selfonlypath
The term “essence” can mean an extract, a concentrate, a distillate, an elixir, a tincture, a dilution and so on…
In the sense that it is used in that lesson, the meaning is that something is being taken from the physical sexual substances and is being drawn up through the body into the higher centres in a process that culminates in ecstatic bliss and divine love. So, we are looking at an extraordinary process that occurs to both yogis and to yoginis (both men and women) at an advanced stage of the path.
And yes, the whole process is complex. Sexual physical substances in males are produced in a number of different places in the pelvis and the same is true for women. The process becomes more complex as it rises up into the solar plexus, as different forms of prana are added from a number of different sources, before the whole process rises up from there into the head. Even then, it does not become any more simple, with both physical and etheric substances being produced in different regions and centres of the head, and falling from there back down to the torso, to be re-absorbed.
The easiest way (and possibly the only way) to understand the whole process, is to experience it directly and for that, an effective yogic practice is necessary. AYP is one such practice.
On the spiritual path, it is useful to let go of ideas such as “this should happen” or “that should not happen”. When an apple tree is growing, it puts a lot of energy into producing the trunk of the tree and the branches and twigs and to sending roots down into the earth. So we could say that it is supposed to be putting energy into these things. But then, one year, suddenly something amazing happens. It produces blossom. And then the blossom falls off and it looks like it had no purpose, other than to look beautiful. But then several months later, the apples appear. Then they fall and new apple trees come up.
It is only when we see the whole process that we can say what is supposed to happen and when.
Christi
Hi selfonlypath,
To clarify this particular point, it’s important to explain things starting from what meditators actually observe and experience.
There’s the experience of retrograde ejaculation which is followed by the release of turbid, foamy urine on the next urination. This is one thing and it’s called spermaturia.
Then, there’s the experience of passing turbid, foamy urines in periods in which there’s no sexual activity at all. The manifesting cause of this symptom is the practice of trance-like meditation.
Since this urine looks exactly like the urine passed after a retrograde, we tend to assume that this is again spermaturia.
But none can be sure of that, unless a urinalysis is performed.
For example, you can read this article https://grapegate.com/resources/urine-sediment/ that talks about lymphatic glands detoxification with photoes of urines with sediments that look like post-retrograde ejaculation urines. They claim that the whitish substance comes from the kidneys and it’s not spermaturia.
Since we don’t know for sure and most people don’t really care about investigating this phenomenon, the best we can hope is that this symptom is -at least- temporary.
In my experience, it’s not temporary …unless one undertakes the simple process to cure himself that I’ve described in this thread.
And I believe that those who claim that this is just a stage, they’re simply not aware of what’s going on in their bodies because for them it just doesn’t matter.
Merci beaucoup Christi for your clear answer.
Unless I’m wrong, even for a male able to reach non-ejaculatory orgasm there can be health issues because the generated winds or vayus might not do a right job if not properly instructed by an authentic yoga school. It gets worse for a male with partial ejaculation because I guess part of the transmuted energy might not go to the right place plus you loose partial energy due to semen loss.
With female, there is an advantage to not have energy loss during orgasm since there is no need to manipulate or suffer the semen issue. However the female might has the same problem as above, namely the female orgasm creating some health issues due to partial incorrect wind management. Energy goes in a place where we are not ready to experience then we get wounded, ungrounded and maybe sick later.
It is like we generate a special circuit but if not managed correctly, it creates more disorder on esoteric level which then re-induce more physical disorders due to incorrect absorption of the experience. I guess this is why AYP teaches to stay in-front the orgasm to cultivate wether male or female, maybe it is like an homeopathy approach or self-pacing approach.
However I notice you refer to the unique case of this sexual energy going through the sushumna but how about female orgasm or male non-ejaculatory orgasm to irradiate and clean the non-dual channels, nadis… is there any lessons from Yogani addressing this alternate path to strengthen the vessel before engaging into the more serious kundalini awakening ?
Albert
Hi Albert,
The AYP Tantra lessons do specify that the aim is to stay well in front of orgasm, rather than attempting to cultivate non-ejaculatory orgasms. This is the case for both men and women, but is less important for women as they lose less energy through orgasm.
The AYP practices are all purification practices and help to prepare the vessel for this whole process to occur. In fact this process will occur even without any tantric sexual practices being used. It will happen to both men and women, when the body is purified enough.
The process of Spinal Breathing Pranayama purifies the first 6 chakras (root to ajna). These chakras are connected to every nadi in the body and to every other chakra and so, purifying these energy centres and the central nerve (sushumna), by default, will purify every other aspect of the subtle neurobiology. Only when the subtle neurobiology reaches a certain stage of purity, will kundalini awaken and the process of the nectar cycle and the production of amrita begin.
If tantric sexual practices are used on their own, as a stand alone practice, then it is really all-bets-off as no direction is being given to the flows of prana. Tantric sexual practices should really only be used in addition to a full-scope yogic practice.
Christi
Hi Vimala,
Let’s take the first example of male has classic ejaculatory orgasm, after say 2 hours he then goes to urinate in a glass, how should the urine appear visually ?
Now let’s take the second example of a male experiencing a non-ejaculatory orgasm, again after say 2 hours he then goes to urinate in a glass, how should the urine appear visually ?
Albert
Hi Albert,
The circumstances of having ejaculatory sex doesn’t affect the composition of urines. Urine in a glass appears transparent. It means that while you’re holding the glass full of urine, you can see your fingers and the bathroom through the glass.
If a retrograde ejaculation occurred, urine in a glass appears turbid and foamy. Not transparent. It means that while you’re holding the glass full of urine, you can’t see your fingers and the bathroom through the glass.
Hi Vimala,
The reason I did ask for the first case (ejaculatory orgasm with no urine during 2 hours) was to imagine a case of some stuck semen in urethra after ejaculation would partially or slightly affect the transparency… i’m bit surprised you say it should be fully transparent in that case but you might be right.
As for the second case, do you agree that if male has non-ejaculatory orgasm with no retrograde to bladder, then after 2 hours or many hours before urinating again the glass should stay transparent ?
Albert
Hi selfonlypath,
There might be some semen stucked in the urethra in certain cases and it could slightly affect transparency, but not as much as a full retrograde. We’re talking about tiny particles: the appearance is still that of an overall transparent fluid.
The practice of edging and tantric pre-orgasmic sex with no external ejaculations leads over time -if not immediately- and inevitably to a condition that could be spermaturia in which semen is found in the urine. Spermaturia naturally happens at the beginning of puberty for males and it’s reported for around 50% of males.
It’s a natural response of the organism that needs to get rid of excess fluids.
If a male has non-ejaculatory orgasm with no retrograde to the bladder, the symptoms that could be associated with spermaturia manifest during the 24 hrs following the practice. 24 hrs represents the basic cycle of human beings in which the biological system passes through the different balancing stages and processes of the day.
If a male remains pre-orgasmic, he can spend many days without noticing anything in his urines, but the symptoms will eventually manifest after some time and, after the first manifestation, it’ll start to appear during the 24 hrs following the sexual act as the body natural response to excessive fluids.
We can’t be sure that it’s spermaturia because I’m not aware of performed urinalysises in those cases.
As I mentioned in a previous post, there are those who associate the phenomenon with a purification of the lymphatic system: in practical terms, the whithish substance could come from the kidneys.
Hi Vimala,
I’ve been re-reading some of your posts, the rationale but I’m more and more confused. Unless i’m wrong, you seem to have experienced, discovered that in fact wether meditation or non-ejaculatory sex generates semen in bladder then urine non-transparent. You also said that eating and sleeping would trigger as well retrograde spermotorrhea, non-transparent urine… What I do not understand, it seems that wether we do meditation, tantrik sex or other simple activities (sleep, eat) then the urine are not clear in your vessel.
Just found an old post, it seems the first post of yours where already in 2013 you were inquiring or doubting or fearing the sperm in urine http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12514
I’m not advanced yogi, meditator… but I’m quite lost, feel some contradiction in your info and seriously wonder if the explanation is of another nature than side-effects of tantra.
Maybe you should follow Christi wisdom advice to have your urine check by lab analysis. After all, you say to have method to heal the issue so you could temporarily trigger the issue then have medical test lab verify during 48 hours scan what are exactly the content affecting the transparency of your urine. Once test are done, you would apply the self-healing method to resume safely.
Just my 2 cents, Albert