Self-Pacing Question -- Sleep-Related

13. Building a Daily Practice with Self-Pacing
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I would love to hear your top ten kirtan chanters/ singers, as I am sure many other people would.

Hi Christi, Cool -- more than happy to share them, of course! In fact, just posted "said list" over in the "Books, Tapes" resources section (seemed the logical place.) Enjoy! :slight_smile: Peace & Namaste, Kirtanman
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I have been a bit puzzled as to why you think there could be something wrong with feeling ecstasy in the body, outside of practices, even if there is no direct spiritual benefit from the experience. I assume you are concerned that because you are actively creating many of these ecstatic states, you may be craving states of ecstasy, in an unwholesome way, or becoming attached to such states. There is the whole “desire, craving and attachment, being synonymous with ignorance (avidya)” thing, that forms a strong part of much eastern spiritual philosophy. On the other hand, bhakti, has been translated by Yogani, as desire, in several places in the lessons. And Yogani is clear that bhakti is the most important ingredient in spiritual practice.
So I guess there must be two kinds of desires, wholesome desires, and unwholesome desires. Bhakti would include desires for things that lead us forward in our spiritual path.
Personally I would place ecstasy, along with bliss, love and compassion, on the list of wholesome desires.
On another note, as I’m sure you have noticed, Yogani has often said that at some point, ecstasy becomes our normal condition, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (another thing that points to the conscious sleep stuff). So you might as well get used to it, whether it is “useful” or not. :slight_smile:
Christi

Hi Christi, It appears I may have been misunderstood --- and I take full responsibility for that (per my phrasing, I can see where my actual meaning may not have been clear.) To Clarify: I see nothing at all wrong with experiencing awesome bliss and ecstasy as much of the time as humanly (or meta-humanly :wink: ) possible! My concern, in the context of this Forum thread / topic (though now very largely resolved, thanks in large part to this dialog; thanks again!) has been as follows: I've noticed a 1:1 correlation between a high degree of ecstasy, and a high degree of "activated kundalini" joy-riding like a carful of hormonally turbo-charged college chicks with the keys to a new Beamer, and a purseful of unused major credit cards - through the bio-psycho-selfscape of one usually energized yet simultaneously kinda sleepy-feeling Kirtanman. Ergo --- I have been concerned that "said ecstasy" is potentially an indicator that I am "running" too much kundalini energy, too much of the time -- and thereby setting myself up for a "Secrets of Wilder"-style reality-enforced self-pacing period (i.e. flat on my back, in bed, groaning -- the bad way, not the good way -- with a head-to-toe fourth degree prana-burn). Such a period, I wish to avoid, nu? (That would be my Inner Rabbi ... or my Inner Deli-Owner - sometimes they're hard to tell apart ..... :clown_face: ) So, to be clear (hopefully), and in un-kirtanmanically-augmented English: It's not the ecstasy itself, but the amount of time spent with highly activated kundalini, which had me concerned (about an energetic overload, and the possible resulting need for self-pacing.) However, per this overall thread --- "I'm good". :slight_smile: Your posts have genuinely helped a lot --- just realizing that there was even one other person, experiencing an "energy life" very, very close to my own --- and knowing that it's essentially fine -- was a confirmation of what my inner guru was trying to tell me --- except I couldn't hear, because I was allowing my ego to drown out KIG's (Kirtanman's Inner Guru :wink: ) sage advice! I think the line which may have created the misunderstanding, is where I wrote: "if there are points where it really is 'only the ecstasy' - I don't see that as so bad" ... which I meant in the same way as: "If all of a sudden, my net worth increased by a million dollars ... I don't see that as so bad" OR "Angelina Jolie wants to spend the weekend practicing Tantra with me? ... I don't see that as so bad" "Like that" :wink: :clown_face: Cheers, Peace & Namaste, Kirtanman
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Hi Kirtanman,
Great Post! :sunglasses:

I think Angelina Jolie falls under the category of wholesome desires. I don’t think there is any need to check with Yogani on that one. He might have some old-fashioned ideas on what Yoga is really about. :wink: :grin:
L&L
Christi

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I think Angelina Jolie falls under the category of wholesome desires. I don’t think there is any need to check with Yogani on that one. He might have some old-fashioned ideas on what Yoga is really about. :wink: :grin:
L&L
Christi

Thanks, Christi! :sunglasses: And, yeah - my Inner Guru is quite clear on the efficacy of shared Sadhana with the extremely admirable* and attractive Ms. Jolie (and I think Yogani's advice, as usual in such situations, would boil down to: "Remember, it's: BARN<---HORSE, and not "BARN--->HORSE" ... but am open to any elaboration and/or clarification that he may care to offer ...) :clown_face: :wink: *And by the way, when I referred to Angelina Jolie as "admirable" - I didn't actually mean "admirable", of course .... I meant AMAZINGLY ADMIRABLE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_Jolie#Humanitarian_work The first paragraph of the article linked above is one of the finest examples of Karma Yoga I have ever read --- no joke whatsoever. Angelina Jolie has far more of my sincere respect and admiration - and gratitude - and gives me far more inspiration and motivation to serve - than words can ever express. Despite any jokes or sexual innuendo which "type cast" her (which I engage in myself, per this thread - jokes and genuine respect are not mutually exclusive :slight_smile: ), despite her "tarnished" public reputation (per gossip magazines, and entertainment news), and despite her globally famous physical beauty, and the "hype appeal" of her (until very recently, at least) edgy sexuality and (seemingly) connected emotional instability .... I sincerely believe that Angelina Jolie will be known as one of the greatest and most influential humanitarians of the 21st century. Sound surprising? If you're not familiar with what I'm referring to .... please check out the information available via these links - especially the first one, above - as well as these: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0618_030618_angelinajolie.html http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20508&Cr=refuge&Cr1= A lot of people know she's a "Goodwill Ambassador", but many (as I used to) -- may think this means having her name and picture aligned with charity work, or appealing for donations a hundred-buck-a-plate charity dinners. Not even close --- this woman donates an incredibly impressive level (even with her wealth) of money, time, dedication - and rolling up her sleeves and diving all the way in -- to war-torn, impoverished and disease-ridden areas of the globe. And actually, knowing that many people aren't "link-clickers" - I'll go ahead and share the first paragraph from the article at the first link above (repeated immediately below for convenience) ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_Jolie#Humanitarian_work Jolie first became personally aware of worldwide humanitarian crises while filming Tomb Raider in poverty-stricken and widely mined Cambodia. According to Jolie, "I discovered things about what's happening in the world... Cambodia was really eye opening for me." Deeply affected by these experiences, she eventually turned to UNHCR for more information on international trouble spots. In the following months she agreed to visit different refugee camps around the world to learn more about the situation and the conditions in these areas. In February 2001, Jolie went on her first field visit, an 18-day mission to Sierra Leone and Tanzania; she later expressed her shock at what she had witnessed. In the coming months she returned to Cambodia for two weeks and later visited Afghan refugees in Pakistan where she donated $1 million for Afghan refugees in response to an international UNHCR emergency appeal.[ She insisted on covering all costs related to her missions and shared the same rudimentary working and living conditions as UNHCR field staff on all of her visits. Impressed by her interest and devotion in the subject, UNHCR named her a Goodwill Ambassador on August 27, 2001 at UNHCR headquarters in Geneva, despite her warning that her controversial public image might shed a negative light on the U.N. In a press conference Jolie explained her motives for joining the refugee agency: “We cannot close ourselves off to information and ignore the fact that millions of people are out there suffering. I honestly want to help. I don't believe I feel differently from other people. I think we all want justice and equality, a chance for a life with meaning. All of us would like to believe that if we were in a bad situation someone would help us." Peace, Namaste, Jai Ma --- Jai Angelina Jolie! :slight_smile: Kirtanman PS - "BONUS TRACK" - CNN Interview with Angelina Jolie (it's a transcript, so there's a bit to wade through ... but it's a very interesting and inspirational read, overall .... this one tidbit - below - blew me away even further ....) http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/20/acd.01.html COOPER: You're very modest. But you're -- you're not just talking the talk. You're walking the walk. I have read that you give a third of your income to refugees and other causes. Is that true? JOLIE: Yes. COOPER: That's incredible. JOLIE: Yes. Well, I have a stupid income for what I do for a living. COOPER: Well... (LAUGHTER) JOLIE: You know what I mean? COOPER: Well... JOLIE: To -- to be fair, I, you know... COOPER: But, hey, look, there are a lot of people who have that income and more and -- and don't do that. Do you feel it makes a difference? Do you see change? (CROSSTALK) JOLIE: I do. And I know it's frustrating for people that don't -- that aren't in the field, because you give money. You don't know where it goes. I have been really lucky, because I can go there and I can say -- I can meet some people who say, God, we really need a well. And I can go back a year later and see it built.