Hi Kyman,
Some quotes that sprung to mind when I read your post. They perhaps don’t answer your question directly but still relate.
I think what you are referring to in your post is what Christ (but this only my thought)was talking about when he said,
“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God(nirvikalpa samadhi)…Marvel not that I say unto thee, Ye must be born again.” (John 3;5,7)
It is the birth of the spiritual consciousness. It is the beginning.
“The appearence of the bud of spiritual consciousness-the first rays of spiritual illumination-mark a most critical period in the evolution of the soul.
The time of mere blind belief is passing from you–the time of knowing is at hand.”
The perception of the “I am” consciousness may be likened to the bud of the flower–the flower itself being the cosmic knowing.
Not until the whole personality of the man is dissolved and melted, not until it is held by the divine fragment which has created it as a mere subject for grave experiment and experience–not until the whole nature has yielded, and become subject unto its higher self, can the bloom open.
It must not be imagined that this budding consciousness springs fullgrown into a man’s mind at once. It has done so in some cases, it s true, but in the majority of instances, it is a matter of slow growth, but the man is never just the same after the growth commences. He apparently may lose his full consciousness of the truth, but it will come back to him again and again, and all the time it is working gradually to make over that man’s nature and his changed mental attitude manifests itself in his actions. He becomes more cheerful and happy. Things that worry his neighbors seem to have but little effect upon him. He finds it hard to manifest a respectable amount of regret and grief over things that bear heavily upon those around him. He is apt to be regarded as unfeeling and heartless, not withstanding his heart may be full of Love and Kindness. His mental attitude is changed–his viewpoint has shifted. He finds himself ceasing to fear, and those around him are apt to consider him reckless or thoughtless. Time has less meaning to him, for the idea of eternity has come to him. Distance ceases to appal him, for is not all space his? Such a one had better keep quiet, or he will be sure to be considered a “queer fish,” and people may tap their foreheads significantly when speaking of him (behind his back).
From Advanced Course in Yogi Philosophy by Yogi Ramacharaka.
Best, yb.
Hi Anthem,
A long time ago I went into a state of higher consciousness. I didn’t understand it well. I told my teacher about it and he asked me if I could reproduce it at will. I said no and he told me to come back to him when I could. That was all he ever said. He never said much. 
He had radiance and peace and had meditated religiously for about 12 years when I met him. I think he was able to produce a state when he wanted but I know that he was riding at a higher baseline level. “He was smarter than the average bear.”
So I have always assumed that this was a desirable and possible thing to do.
I know that Swami Rama was able to do it, at least from what I have read about the biofeedback work he did at the Menninger Foundation, way back when. At least in his tradition, this is a goal, I think.
Sounds like maybe you are doing this too since you experience this alot anyways and you just don’t think of it that way.
Am I right?
Best. yb.
P.S. Really great posting. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and thoughts.
Hi Anthem,
A long time ago I went into a state of higher consciousness. I didn’t understand it well. I told my teacher about it and he asked me if I could reproduce it at will. I said no and he told me to come back to him when I could. That was all he ever said. He never said much.
He had radiance and peace and had meditated religiously for about 12 years when I met him. I think he was able to produce a state when he wanted but I know that he was riding at a higher baseline level. “He was smarter than the average bear.”
So I have always assumed that this was a desirable and possible thing to do.
I know that Swami Rama was able to do it, at least from what I have read about the biofeedback work he did at the Menninger Foundation, way back when. At least in his tradition, this is a goal, I think.
Sounds like maybe you are doing this too since you experience this alot anyways and you just don’t think of it that way.
Am I right?
Best. yb.
Hi Yogibear,
Thanks for your post, it makes me reflect over the last couple of years, particularly the last year, I have definitely experienced some states that I would describe as higher (as in more fulfilling) than others. The ones I would describe as the most amazing for me, seem to come very rarely, like a moment of grace where the oneness of everything is known. If I could reproduce it I surely would, but wouldn’t know where to begin.
What I am noticing by looking back is that some of the states I experience pretty regularly now, like feeling intensely present, deep peace and quietness of mind, love for life and others, ecstasy etc. come more often than they used to and are more accessible. So maybe those very special moments that are rare now will become more common in the future, I certainly hope so! 
I guess I wouldn’t know how to reproduce those rare higher states, they come they go, and are never the same twice. I love it when they come but would only frustrate myself in trying to get them back. In between, I enjoy the ones that are accessible now, love and gratitude is close to the heart and is just a matter of putting the awareness there. Sometimes it just comes spontaneously for other people, it washes over me and makes me want to give them anything. Calm and peacefulness is always there as long as I don’t go over. Ecstasy is a matter of attention on the spinal nerve, but too much play with this puts me over too, so I’m very careful.
For the most part, the only thing that tends to take me out of some of these states is “going-over” in practices. Personally, I find it very challenging these days to stay on the right side of the equation in terms of self-pacing. My whole routine including pranayama, meditation and samyama is over in less than 20 minutes. This has become the most important part of my practice, making sure I “self-pace” properly. I don’t know if others here have experienced the same thing, but if I deviate by so much as a minute or add in a few extra reps or something new to the routine, I can end up with symptoms of over-doing which quickly takes me out of any of those feel good states, so it’s pretty motivating to get it right!
Thanks for making me reflect. 
Funny; I used to be the same way. These days, I don’t have any aversion to that type of expression of bhakti, but no strong resonance, either.
Kirtan, Bhajans … and devotional chanting in general … have many musical and cultural styles, and forms of expression. There are well known Sikh styles (hint: they’re the ones who wear turbans, and chant in Gurmukh, rather than Sanskrit), traditional Indian, Western forms of traditional Indian (i.e. the Hare Krsna approach, which I believe is the style shown in your video link, above), and at least a few others … many of which would fall into the realm becoming known as “Kirtan Fusion” (yogic kirtan lyrics; mantras / names of God in Sanskrit … with modern Western music as the underlying musical style).
Kirtan Fusion tends to be a lot more palatable to Western cultural sensibilities and musical tastes than the type of approach shown in your link above … which does not lessen the perfection in that approach in any way.
Candidly, though, if I saw that, even today … I would feel a sense of loving appreciation, as I do for any demonstration of sincere devotion to that which is sacred (permanent, real) … yet just as definitively, I would say to myself, “If that’s kirtan, then kirtan’s not for me!”
So, I thought it might be helpful to remind people that A. kirtan approaches which may “resonate” more readily with people reading this thread are easily available, and B. any spiritual benefit I have gained from kirtan (which is far, far beyond the ability of words to convey, to be sure) has not been from the style of devotional chanting displayed above, but from the Kirtan Fusion styles I outlined in this post a while back.
For an example of the turbo-charged bhakti available with this approach, I highly recommend checking out (and chanting along with) this clip highlighting Krishna Das and a few hundred of his closest friends diving straight into the Heart (of it all) …
Hare Krishna, LIVE, from the album All One.
The whole thing is probably 20-25 minutes long, and takes a good 3 minutes to really get started. I would invite anyone to spend a full five minutes, chant along … and feel what you feel.
And, please know: like any practice, kirtan may not “kick in” right away; it didn’t for me, either. I just really kind of enjoyed the variety (compared to good ol’ rock n’ roll I’d listened to for many years) and unique sound and vibe of the mantra reptition.
Then, I noticed a subtle difference (kind of like a sonic boom is subtle 
) in how kirtan made me feel, compared to regular singing.
So, I decided to investigate. I made it part of my daily practice.
I’d been doing that about a full year, when I joined the AYP Forum, last summer.
The rest is bliss-story.
Heart is Where the AUM Is,
Kirtanman
PS - Lest I seem culturally myopic: I fully realize and support that some folks my resonate more with the YouTube clip that Glagbo posted. Awesome! There’s all kinds of MahaBhakti going on out there! For instance, I’m going to see This Guy, next week! Listen closely to the lyrics.
I realize we are into kind of rivers entering oceans territory, and it does get hard to say where one thing ends and another begins.
My own experience is not exactly like yours. I can enter states of samadhi which are characterized by bliss, and by a profound silence which, as you say, surrounds and supports everything. It can happen in practices or in normal life. When it happens in normal life, it is as if everything and everyone is floating in this ocean of peace and bliss. But love is not always present. It can feel a bit superficial, or head centred.
I feel love in the samadhi state when the energy current is rising through my center whilst in the samadhi state. I guess this is the lovemaking of siva and shakti happening in the heart that Yogani talks about in the main lessons. Samadhi without love feels somewhat empty to me, as you can imagine.
I am not surprised that you feel samadhi is synominous with love, as you have done a lot of ecstacy raising practices (in fact you might even be the ecstacy raising practices poster boy by now ).
This love seems to me to be the most amazing aspect of the spiritual path, and I am surprised that it does not get more mention, at least in Eastern spiritual traditions. In the Buddhist literature, samadhi is discussed in great deal, and the characteristics associated with different samadhi states is discussed. But love hardly gets a mention.
For me, at the moment, this love that you talk about in your post above, is the only thing that interests me in my spiritual practice. When it is present, I feel it in the heart, and it spreads out to fill my whole body from there, and further into the air around my body. When it is not present I feel empty inside, and a sense of loss and a longing for the divine.
I know I still have a long way to go, but I also feel impatient (like a quickening, or an urgency in terms of my spiritual path).
Lots of thoughts, in no particular order… 
Just wodering if this resonates in any way with you.
Christi
Hi Christi, Yes, pretty much all of it resonates. :slight_smile: I've had pretty much every experience you describe, including that "blissful yet cold" sense, yet knowing I was in a very high, conscious and unified state. In my experience, it's almost like ecstatic love "rose up to meet" that other state (the "connected and blissful yet somewhat superficial") ... and the two integrated into one, and that one was, and is ... HOME. The infinitely-more-real than I ever dreamed possible Love that I experience now is both FAR more vast and powerful, yet far less sentimental and emotional and attached than even my most refined and conscious experiences of love were, before (I had the experience / realization / resolution of experiences). And please know: I'm not attempting to say that I'm "beyond" where you are; I don't have a sense that that's a knowable, or pertinent thing ... I'm simply describing what it has been like, and is, for me. Cutting to the chase, so to speak ... here's what is, for me, the single most powerful, clear and oh-so-pragmatic quote concerning bhakti in the history of ... well ... quotes. And history. :sunglasses: "If the longing is there, realization will be forced on you, even if you do not want it. Long for it intensely so that the mind melts in devotion. After camphor burns away, no residue is left. The mind is the camphor. When it has resolved itself into the Self without leaving the slightest trace behind, it is realization of the Self." -- Sri Ramana Maharshi "Be As You Are: The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi", pg.88 That's the great secret. That's why kirtan works. That's why AYP works. ALL these practices, all these awesome states, all these glorious experiences, ultimately take us beyond the mind, completely. They have to; we're literally designed this way (hence Sri Ramana's first sentence, in the quote above ... it's that much of a sure thing.) Even now, tears of gratitude spring unbidden to my eyes, as I write this. Ultimately, all we have to bring to the table is sincerity. Adyashanti call it "earnestness". Adya's teacher (Arvis Justi) said, "Only the phonies don't get enlightened." Out of several solid years of practice, I didn't experience major "payoff" until very recently. The major payoff resides in literally realizing: there is no payoff. Practice results, even the most unspeakably glorious ones, are the sorta-teaser for the Reality, which is: Realization is not a state, nor is it an experience; it is what we are. Our sense of this, prior to Realization, is essentially inverted ... we truly feel like we're body-minds, tasting eternal spirit. We're actually eternal spirit, tasting these body-minds. REALLY. :grin: "Life is but a dream of a dream. This world is not what it seems." -Tina Malia As you can imagine, literally realizing this only changes .... everything. Heart is Where the AUM is! Kirtanman
Really nice and insightful posts Kirtanman, thanks for them.
I especially like this great reminder:
Also, wanted to mention that because of your posts and passion for “Kirtan” which I had never heard of prior to you, I listened to the whole thing and really liked it, thanks for the link.
All the best,
A
Really nice and insightful posts Kirtanman, thanks for them.
I especially like this great reminder:Also, wanted to mention that because of your posts and passion for “Kirtan” which I had never heard of prior to you, I listened to the whole thing and really liked it, thanks for the link.
All the best,
A
Cool; you’re very welcome! Thanks for the kind words, Anthem.
Hi Kirtanman
Thanks very much for sharing your Samadhi experiences (or non-experiences ). In this context many advaita guys like Nisargadatta, Robert Adams etc. have claimed that nothing ever happened and nothing exists. Did you get a glimpse of the secret of why so many life/non-life forms seem to exist or not exist 
Thanks
Speaking of non-duality and non-experience…I decided to check out a Jnana Yoga/Advaita group at a yoga center, and went for my first session yesterday with great anticipation. The address, date, and time were listed very clearly online. When I arrived, the good people at the desk had no idea what I was talking about, had never heard of the class, and were unfamiliar with the instructor. 
Pretty advanced stuff, these non-teachings.
Speaking of non-duality and non-experience…I decided to check out a Jnana Yoga/Advaita group at a yoga center, and went for my first session yesterday with great anticipation. The address, date, and time were listed very clearly online. When I arrived, the good people at the desk had no idea what I was talking about, had never heard of the class, and were unfamiliar with the instructor. Pretty advanced stuff, these non-teachings.
LOL :grin: May be it was intentional to give you a glimpse of the non-stuff Regards
Hey!
Who said that?!
You non-guys are funny. I forgot to mention that this morning I received an automated email from the yoga center, asking me how I enjoyed the class.
Now THAT’s funny!
So, did the so-called you enjoy the so-called event? Too bad you weren’t there to not remember nothing.
It appears by the email that you did attend the class. Perhaps the imagined you aced THAT one.
Now THAT’s funny!
So, did the so-called you enjoy the so-called event? Too bad you weren’t there to not remember nothing.
It appears by the email that you did attend the class. Perhaps the imagined you aced THAT one.
I think that there’s such a thing as being TOO non-dual. I mean, it would’ve been great if the dude running the class had been dual enough to let potential newcomers know that the classes had stopped for the summer. But hey - whaddo “I” know.
Seriously - I sometimes wonder how enlightened blokes get on in the world. Is it hard to relate to the petty concerns of the rest of us? When you’re living in a perpetual state of samadhi, it must be cumbersome to deal with the endless details of everyday stuff. Or maybe you take pleasure in all of it. I have to say that Nisargadatta always seemed rather irritated with his interviewer, and I could imagine him sighing heavily and rolling his eyes at some of the more banal questions.
He probably figured that the one’s and zero’s that make up internet communications are the epitome of duality!
Hi Anthem
Fantastic advice anthem. Thanks for that. I will try my best to follow it.
Christi
Hi Kirtanman,
Thanks for the great reply.
Yes, that’s pretty much how I experience things when everything is flowing smoothly .
I find that my understanding of how far I have come spiritually is defined less by how high, or loving, or radiant, or unified my experience of reality is. I find that it is better tested in those difficult moments when someone does or says something we don’t like, and understanding how we react to that. There was a famous monk in Thailand who said that achieving samadhi states in a mountain cave was not spiritual practice. He said that it was preperation for spiritual practice, which began when we came down and entered the marketplace.
This is another thing that happens to me with increasing frequency these days. I am never quite sure if it is tears of gratitude for my teachers, or for the divine. Who knows?
Adya also taks I believe about a state of innocence. This is something that I am feeling is an important part of all of this. Sincerity… innocence… it’s kind of the same thing isn’t it?
Thanks again for your great posts.
Samadhi perspective based on Patanjali’s yoga sutra, by art of living guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar
http://www.newindpress.com/sunday/colItems.asp?ID=SEE20070719080536
Regards
Hi ajna
I liked the article from your link, two bits as follows:
Cheers
Louis
Hi ajna
I liked the article from your link, two bits as follows:The purpose of Samadhi is not just Samadhi itself but “adhyatma prasada”, which means spiritual awakening or spiritual grace. Samadhi is one of the means to attain the grace of spirituality.
Cheers
Louis
Sri Sri is known for expressing abstract concepts in simple terms. You may like to look at his other articles, the links to which are in the bottom of the page referred to in the above post.
Thanks