Resting in unknowingness

23. Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
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I recollect early days on the spiritual truth search quest, the time when mind inquired and I read many books and tried to meditate unsuccessfully, the so called meditation being not meditation but rather concentration, which is an entirely different thing, head centric, whereas we need to be void centric.

Much water has flown under the bridge since then and now what I can share is something very simple, so easy that we miss it, because we are thought driven. Just rest in unknowingness.

Begin a thought train and then suspend it halfway. Momentum has been gathered, the arrow shot into space but then the target disappears and time itself is frozen. We choose to stop the flow of life itself, if I may put it that way.

So, we are not fighting thought. We are resisting nothing. We are seeking no attainment. We are simply beginning an action and then freezing the frame of time. The movie stops.

We may call this a practice if we wish, although in my view it is a non-practice. After a while we can rest in silence and stillness easily. We question nothing, expect nothing, we just are, as we are, empty.

I recollect that this is what I began with, since I had no guru and was not aware of any technique. After a while, since I was resting in silence and as we know, water seeks its own level, divine magnetism filled the emptiness and kundalini was activated spontaneously. It was smooth and swift and trouble free. Mind you, I never sought kundalini awakening, in fact at that time I did not even know what kundalini is, maybe I still don’t know! There were no blockages since what blockages can there be if we are still and desireless?

I offer this non-practice for those who feel it resonates. I am just sharing this, since it worked for me. Please use your judgment and discernment.

God bless.

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You are like so many advaita these days. Denying the need for effective spiritual practises.

I am not sure if this is really the way to go. Effective spiritual practises are not only purify our body,mind and entire spiritual system, it also purifies our environment. This means that we are not only doing the practises for ourselves but for everybody. That´s the reason (I think) Yogani and Tristan says that practises never ends as long as we have a physical body.

I am not sure if u are aware of how the practises in AYP works. For example in deep meditation there is the repetition of the mantra “AYÄM”. This sound “AYÄM” has an purifing effect on our entire system and even on our environmet. So, we are not just enhancing our life quality, but the life quality of everyone.
In other word, it´s quite egocentric not using such practises, because we are missing a big opportunity to help. Nondualist people often miss the energetic aspect of life. The energetic part of life is the purification process which is essential for humanity to move foreward and removing suffering.

So, I think the real question to ask is: “Do I use every potential I have to improve (removing suffering from) humanity?”

And not doing spiritual practises is a big miss for helping humanity. And for your concern that practises are strengthening the ego…I can only speak for the AYP practises, but quite the opposite is the case. Favouring easily an object over time is the best way to fall into pure consciousness. And staying there in daily life.

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Hmmm ~ I’m sorry if my suggestion is taken as an imposition. That certainly is not my intention. All I’m doing is sharing what worked for me.

This said, perhaps non-practice in as there being no doer is itself a practice but as an orientation shift, to live in a continuum of present moments, in surrender, free from fears and desires, largely free from thought itself. Cessation may in fact be more revolutionary and challenging than any practice.

We tend to look at life narrowly, reviewing only this life. What about our past lives? I once had a sneak peek into one of my past lives, where I was a neophyte in a cave in Tibet, in ann ashram of some sort, and had spent my entire life in meditation. Was this vision true or mere fancy? Some may accept, others may say I manifested the image myself. Who’s to judge? Let’s just leave the door ajar then. But if true, that may explain how I experienced kundalini and had non-dual recognition, to some measure in this life, without volition.

Our journeys are complex and enigmatic. Only 10% of an iceberg is visible above the water line, is it not?

About practice, my wife is highly evolved spiritually ~ her path is prayer to all the gods possible, Shivji, Hanumanji, Ganeshji, Sai Baba, Brahma, Vishnuji, Divine Mother in all variety of forms, Shani Devji, Jesus, Buddha …. Well, that works for her, not me and my non-practice works for me, not her. Yet we live happily together.

My specific counsel against practice is not to stop God-search, no. It is against tinkering with kundalini. Plain and simple: we have no idea what kundalini is, that is the truth. I have come across many cases of extreme trauma in aspirants who tried to awaken the kundalini prematurely. This is not my finding alone. YouTube has some many videos on this. Shaktipat: another strict no from my side, as also taking hallucinogens or engaging in abnormal sexual practices.

Whatever little I know about kundalini occurred and still does, spontaneously, which is how it is meant to be. There is no seeking.

Accepting that Self or God alone is, the all there is, prior to manifestation, that is, outside space time and also within, then we must agree that there is no one here, the ego is illusionary. So, let silence be our only refuge. Identity vaporised, we do not meditate, rather we are meditated upon, if that makes sense.

Yes, such are my views but we are all free to choose whether to dwell in mind or in heart, in thought or in silence.

Kind Regards & God bless.

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Everyone how he wants. But it isn’t true that effective practises don’t work for everyone. There are principles, and these principles work in everyone.

And again, it is your decision to practise or not. But for me the choice is very easy, bc knowing that we are purifing others through this practises makes it a big responsibility to practise.

While it’s true that no one knows kundalini completeley, bc there is no end to it, there are principles which helps to cultivate it. So, again we land by practises…there are practises which cultivates kundalini (and the witness/stillness side).

Do you really think that Yogani or people who practise for over 50 years effective spiritual practises are thought based, resting/ being identified in mind? :smiley: I mean, I don’t want to make it to a competition. But I am sure Yogani is highly advanced spiritually, and he says practises still enriches his life. Even if he is doing nothing while he is practising. He always points to this divine paradox!!

And again, while it works for you (probably you have put in the work for many past lifes), its not safe to say that it is working for many people.

But of course it is your point of you, and I respect it. But on the other hand, in AYP we have another perspective.

Its a little limiting to deny practises, you know. Intellectual, it seems logical , but through experience it has been shown over and over again that spiritual practises are increasing the life quality for the one, who is practising, and for others. And thats the most important thing!

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Hi th1996 and UnseekingSeeker,

I don’t think it is a question of “doing spiritual practices” vs. “not doing spiritual practices”. I have not come across a member of this forum so far who is not doing spiritual practices. However, there can be a stage on the path where we begin to feel as if we are not doing the practices, but rather that the universe is doing the practices through us. This seems to be where you are at SpiritualSeeker.

And this is fine, and is a good thing. It is a sign that there is a loosening of identification with the body and the objects of the mind, and specifically with the idea in the mind that we are the “doer” of our actions. It is part of the shift in identity from the objects of the mind to pure awareness itself, where we come to see everything in the universe as simply happening, without any volition. Like billiard balls hitting billiard balls, where every ball has to move according to the laws of nature.

This is of course not the end game in yoga. The end game is unity, beyond the separation of Self and the universe. In that stage we do not regard ourselves as the “doer of actions”, and we do not regard that the “universe is acting through us”. Both those things are based in separation, in dvaita, or duality.

But even in the highest stages of the path spiritual practices continue. As long as we have a physical body new karma is being created and needs to be dissolved. The only difference is that we neither see ourselves as the doer of actions, or as the recipient of actions. In fact there are no actions at all. Nothing can really be said of this stage on the path.

As Yogani wrote:

Even as everything is still moving, we do not see it moving. [Yogani]

That is from Lesson 350

And in the Isha Upanishad:

It moves, it moves not; it is far, it is near; it is within all, it is outside all. [Isha Upanishad verse 6]

In the meantime should anyone be saying that it is wrong to do spiritual practices? Absolutely not. And considering that everyone here is doing them, it seems like a moot point!

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There is no debate or competition really. We each are doing as what we resonate with. Perhaps none can walk in the other’s shoes. We can respect each others path, whatever it be and still exchange views to enrich our collective understanding, without judging.

Interestingly, we may notice that there are so many paths, so many people who were graced by recognition but none achieved it through practice but rather in time dissolved silence, by grace.

To quote a translation of Ashtavakra Gita verse 1:15 ~

“You are unattached, actionless, self-illuminating, and pure. Your only bondage is that you practice concentration.”

Path or non-path any, ego as identity or doer must disappear eventually, for recognition to dawn.

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Lesson 350 is worth a read in my view, for those who have not reviewed it yet :+1:t3:

Thanks for sharing

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Hi UnseekingSeeker,

Yes, this is true. Although the divine paradox is that without spiritual practices no one reaches the stage where they are able to receive grace in time dissolved silence.

This has been true for all of the saints and sages throughout millenia. Whether it was Jesus spending forty days and nights praying and fasting in the desert, or the Buddha sitting in silence for weeks under the Bodhi tree. Or Ramana Maharshi spending months in silent meditation in the cave on the side of Mount Arunachala, or RamaKrishna worshipping at the feet of the statue of Kali. Or Krishnamurti spending months in intense spiritual practices in Ojai Valley, California.

It is the spiritual practices that bring us to the point where transcendence is possible. And this is true whether we are doing the practices ourselves, or if we believe the universe is doing the practices through us. And this has been true for everyone, throughout history.

And then eventually we come to see that there is no spiritual path, and no one to walk it. But it is important not to get the cart in front of the horse. No one can transcend the mind without first making themselves ready.

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I am not there, yet. I just want to reduce suffering from me, and humanity. And spiritual practises like in AYP are a good help for it.

And I am not sure if this “there is no doer” is a help, if someone is not there.

So, maybe I am just stubborn…:smiley:

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Hi th1996,

This “there is no doer” thing certainly is not helpful for people who are not ready, and can even be a major hindrance. I have known people to waste years of their life not engaging in spiritual practices because they heard someone say “there is no doer” and they believed them.

In the old days, before the time of mass published books and the internet, people learning spiritual practices would have a teacher. The teacher would begin by teaching them what was necessary for a beginner. Then, when they were ready, they would be taught what was necessary for an intermediate level student. Then, years later, and only when they were ready, they would be taught the higher teachings. The system did have a few flaws, such as the question of what happens when someone’s teacher dies whilst they are still on the path, but in general, it worked very well.

Then mass published books came along, and the internet, and people gained both the ability to access the higher teachings of yoga, and to share them with anyone they wanted at any moment. It did not matter if someone was ready, or not, or whether they had completed the pre-requisite practices, or not.

So, that is the situation that we are in today. It is a bit of a mess to be honest. There are teachers teaching practices to complete beginners which, in the past would have only been reserved for very experienced practitioners. Some of the practices are actually unsafe for beginners to do, and people can, and do, end up in hospital.

So, there is a burden of responsibility on those who are involved in disseminating spiritual knowledge to ensure that the people receiving it are ready to receive it. It is not always an easy task.

The advice I would give is that if you feel something is not helpful, then leave it for now. If, later on you feel it could be helpful, then you can pick it up then. The cat is well out of the bag now, so the advanced practices, and the higher teachings, will not be going anywhere any time soon! :slightly_smiling_face: :folded_hands:

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AYP has been my first and exclusive practice for a dozen years. It has brought me to this place described above. Settling into my meditation seat, gentle intention is acknowledged to be quiet and open to whatever arises in the spinal breath. White noise increases pitch as silence steps up. Thoughts dissolve as the shushumna is scanned and the body adjusts to balance and stillness. When conditions are ripe, Ketchari and the mantra commences seemingly on their own.

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That’s a good zone to be in, more so since it is allowing what is, to arise without thought interference.

One question always intrigued me about Sushumna being triple layered and so forth as written in scriptures. Theory apart, how do we really know, unless we ‘see’, just as perhaps we may have seen chakras whirring or their colours? So, when some yoga practitioner says, ‘kundalini was moving up or down this or that nadi, I willed it to pause and go through the Sushumna instead, I’m baffled.Then of course there are within or around Sushumna the Chitrini, Vajra and Brahma nadis. I wonder if the nadi network is actually seen and known as talked about, as also the different chakras.

The actuality of kundalini, in as I experienced it, is different from the scriptures, as I may have mentioned on other threads. So why then shy away from saying it like it is? I have no such inhibition. A quick recap ~

  1. There is a central funnel, perfectly vertical, which connects the root or base, that is, the point between our reproductive and excretory organs to the crown or fontanel. It has nothing to do with the spine, although the spine comes into play later in a different way.
  2. The liquid light energy, which we call kundalini, it rises up in a single swoosh, bypassing all chakras. It pierces the fontanel and flows out through a tiny orifice. If we, meaning our body-mind consciousness, witnessing and experiencing this offering, if we agree to die by dissolving in the stream, only then can we pass through the orifice, into space.
  3. With this done and qualified oneness experienced in the inky black void of no-thingness, immersions repeat, till we invite the totality into this body vessel. As we wish, so it is. Male and female polarities are balance, felt vividly and we literally are hatched out of the cosmic egg, Hiranyagarbha, in the head ovoid. From there, the polarities, Shiva & Shakti descend to heart, via presumably what is called the Amrit nadi. An explosion of bliss results illumining the same central funnel in the centre of our body, from where bliss radiates forth in permanence. Bliss becomes a permanent embodiment of our being, just like our breath or heartbeat.

So what may we call this central funnel, if the Sushumna is said to be in the spine?

About the spine, yes, it came into play at the third stage, first being the central funnel, second being a circuitous rise of kundalini through the Ida and Pingala (cool & warm current) surfing over the chakras felt on front of body, through physical eyes and converging between the eyebrows, the third eye chakra. From there, there is a fine conduit going through the guru chakra (seat of guru) up to the crown. The third stage is spine, wherefrom the rise is not gentle but with potent power, piercing the medulla going up over back of head through one or two unknown (to me) chakras, the Bindu point (bald spot at back of head) up to crown and then dipping down over front till the third eye. There are kriyas, meaning violent shaking of head from side to side but also a continuous communication with Divine Mother who facilitates this process as energy transfer and planting seeds of wisdom.

The energy loop then actually splits form vertically energetically speaking and bliss magnetism is cool heat, as a steady pulsation of ineffable rapture.

Coming back to the central funnel, a pillar of living light, it is us around which all worlds as thought forms rotate. There is no time. Time is a property of manifest worlds. The ones closer to us at the centre move slower and the ones farther away move faster.

Apart from sharing this, what I’m getting at is that we should not overthink the epiphanies that dawn. So, as this thread topic says, ‘Rest in unknowingness’, in an aspect of astonishment and wonderment. Everything is enabled automatically in timeless time.