Physical semen retention

09. Tantra - A Holistic View of Spirituality
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Hi th1996,

The reason for engaging in tantric sexual practices such as pre-orgasmic sex (no ejaculation, no blocking) is to avoid losing prana during sexual activity. This prana can then be used for spiritual purification. So, the main purpose of tantric sexual practices is not to increase pleasure during sex, although that can be a natural byproduct for some people.

If you are still blocking after ten years, then that could well be because you keep choosing to do that. Most men can choose to stay away from orgasm and avoid the need to block, especially with a bit of practice. If you are choosing to reach orgasm and to block often, then you may not be at the maximum level of progress because there is still some energy loss even with blocking and even if shambhavi mudra is used.

But it is not an all-or-nothing process. Some men experience a build-up of energy over time and may need to release once a week, or once every two weeks, in order to avoid this happening. How often it is, will depend on the person. As you have noticed, there is a loss of spiritual energy for a day or two after orgasm, so releasing too often can impede progress whilst not releasing often enough could also impede progress.

As for the enjoyment aspect of pre-orgasmic sex, this depends a lot on the state of purification of the energetic channels in the body. If the nadis are pure, any sexual activity will bring the body into a state of ecstasy and we can ride that ecstatic wave during sex whilst staying well away from orgasm. This wave can deepen to be much stronger than any orgasmic experience and can last for many minutes, or even hours.

Gradually this full-body ecstasy is present whenever we meditate as well, or whenever we practice pranayama or asana. Eventually it is present during the day as well, whatever activity we are doing and even whilst we sleep at night.

So, it is a gradual process that evolves over many years, but staying in front of orgasm is an important part of it. Will the process of liberation happen anyway, even if someone does not stay away from orgasm and is blocking often during sex? Maybe, or maybe not. That would depend very much on the person. It would certainly take a lot longer.

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Thank u so much for ur answer.

Okay, I see. It´s true that I choose the orgasm. I will change it.

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Does this go for solo tantric practice also?

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Hi Tom,

Yes it does. There are only a few minor differences between solo tantric practice and couple tantric practice. The fundamentals are all the same.

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At some point genitals do not need direct stimulation for a yogi to find ecstasy and rolling orgasm, so staying in front of ejaculation becomes a non issue.

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I assume at this point the goal becomes not to get addicted to the ecstasy :person_shrugging:

I’ve had some small success with this recently, which is new for me. Some rising ecstasy in the pauses, but at the moment it doesn’t last long.

I can see now that if this were to gain strength as an experience, one would try real hard to stay away from orgasm completely.

I can also see now how our sexual obsessions will naturally just become less appealing over time when this process comes to maturation. Meaning that there is no need to obsess over any perceived physiological imperfections we might have, like lust etc… this favouring of ecstasy will lead us naturally away from them and orgasm.

It’s nice to be able to join the dots once in a while, with more direct experience bringing further clarity.

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I assume at this point the goal becomes not to get addicted to the ecstasy :person_shrugging:

Hi Tom,

I would not say that the goal is not to get addicted to the ecstasy. The goal is always liberation, self-realisation, unity and divine love. Addiction can play a subtle and useful role on the path, if it is managed in the right way. Being addicted to meditating every day can be a useful addiction. And it can be a useful addiction for a long time on the path. Addiction to alcohol, not so much. So, some addictions can be helpful, and others can be detrimental. Addiction to ecstasy can be useful, or not, depending on the person and the stage they are at. Addiction to experiencing orgasm is generally unhealthy spiritually, but addiction to remaining in a pre-orgasmic state of ecstasy can be useful.

As Yogani puts it in lesson 10:

I confess to being an addict to this spiritual practice game. It is an ecstatic spiral that pulls us out of our limited earth perception. Everything will look different, first just a little, and later on, a lot different. So if you are not wanting to become divinely inspired, divinely addicted, better stay away. Because the best means are here. If you set your heart and mind to it, you can do it. Honest. And then nothing will ever be the same. You will laugh and laugh when you see how it really is.

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Hi Tristan,

So most of the time solo tantra doesn’t seem to be doing anything, but occasionally I do get some ecstasy in the pauses. I’m assuming that even if nothing noticeably ecstatic is happening during practice it will still be doing some good if done on top of inner silence?

Also, one thing that’s been bugging my mind -

If ecstasy is indicative of purification or friction in the nervous system, shouldn’t it happen less at some point as we become more pure, when there are less obstacles to be removed? Or is it that we start to clear obstructions in other life forms and we become ecstatic because of that?

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Hi Tom,

Sexual pleasure is caused primarily by the movement of prana in the body. So, if sexual pleasure is present during sex, and blockages are present in the nadis, then purification will be taking place as the prana bumps up against the blockages and removes them. Loving energy is also caused primarily by prana moving through nadis and will also have a similar purification effect. So, if love is felt during sex then this is also purifying. If nothing much is felt, then the chances are that not much purification, if any, is going on either.

If ecstasy is indicative of purification or friction in the nervous system, shouldn’t it happen less at some point as we become more pure, when there are less obstacles to be removed? Or is it that we start to clear obstructions in other life forms and we become ecstatic because of that?

Yes, ecstasy changes as inner purification progresses. It does not stop, but does become more refined. The flows of prana in the channels become more sweet and gentle. They also become more radiant and expansive reaching beyond the physical body.

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Thanks for clarifying Tristan.

I have noticed that the energy has become ‘less erotic’ over time, and more loving and euphoric which goes with what u are saying regarding ‘refinement’. I can totally understand how one comes to favour this higher experience over orgasm now.

Also, sexual thoughts obviously create sexual feelings and sensations. So is this a way to cultivate sexual energy, as long as it is not used to the point of obsession?

Thanks for your help as always :+1:

Tom

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Hello folks,

I am happy to see that, since I started this thread half a year ago, I wasn’t the only one concerning himself with that challenging subject.

Today I wanna write that I think I made some kind of progress, something significant to share with you. It has much to do with semen retention and energy work, I think. Tantric specialists also call this: “The big draw”.

Here’s my observation: Sometimes when I arouse myself to the point of climax, right there, when arousal is about to explode in orgasm, I do this: Tucking in my chin to the chest, applying Mula Bandha (contracting the perineum that is) and inhaling strongly while focusing on that area down there, I really feel a very strong emergence of energy up my spine.

How do I describe it best? It feels cold, very cold, like icy water running up (sic) my back, defying gravity. But it feels great! That cool, refreshing wave of energy crawls right up into my head, where it leaves a feeling of tingling and dizziness for a few seconds before fading, but again in a good way, like riding a rollercoaster.

As short as it as, it feels very real. Too real to be a mere placebo effect. Could this be something like the “big draw”?

Sadly, I wouldn’t call this a breakthrough yet, because the downside is this: In order to conjure that kind of energy wave up my spine like I just described, I have to go very far arousing myself. Too far. Once I’m there, the pressure is to strong, and ejaculation becomes inevitable.

Yes, I can avoid ejaculation by simply stopping arousing myself way earlier before reaching the point of no return. But then that energy draw won’t feel so intense. So I’m not sure where to go from here. It is progress, I guess, but no breakthrough yet. Any advise or shared experience is greatly appreciated.

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Hi Ben,

What you are working on is an advanced version of the blocking technique in tantra where you are using mulabanda (contracting the pelvic floor muscles), dropping the chin down onto the chest (jalandhara bandha), and drawing the breath in hard. This is certainly a valid form of blocking, but it is still blocking, so there will be some loss of spiritual energy. And then if you are also going over into orgasm and ejaculation right after, there will be even more loss of spiritual energy.

I would suggest simply backing off before getting even close to this stage. That way you can retain all of your spiritual energy. It may not seem so exciting at first, but it will do over time. And of course none of this will go very far without a regular daily meditation practice. So, make sure you have that in place.

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Thank you for your clear advice on that matter.

If I can somehow make this work even as a blocking technique, that would be a great step forward already. Yes, there still will be loss of energy. But far less than with a physical semen loss. I’m sure everyone can agree on that.

Much work to do. I’ll be writing here when I learn something new.

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Hi Tom,

Yes. Over time tantric sex becomes less physical and more about thought, energy and visualisation. There is a stage where someone, by simply embracing their lover, can cause a fountain of sexual and loving energy to permeate their body and radiate out from the body. There is no need for penetration, or even any sexual touch, and both partners could be fully clothed. In more advanced stages this can happen simply by visualising that embrace happening, so their partner does not even need to be present. In higher stages still, even that visualisation is not needed. Just a loving thought will have the same effect. Eventually even that loving thought is not needed. The tantric practitioner will simply be living in that state continuously.

And yes, everything in moderation and at the right time. Tantric sexual practice at whatever level needs to be regulated in order to avoid too much purification happening too fast. The subtle nervous system can only handle a certain amount of purification in any given timeframe. So, being measured is important.

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Yes, it will take a lot longer, but somehow I can´t stay away of orgasm bc of several reason.

First, I like it hahah.

Second, it is somehow physical difficult. I have done yesterday a long Tantra session and stayed away from orgam. Than I have done global meditation, and there the eergy was somehow blocked. It was physical a discomfort in the sexual region. And that discomfort stayed after the session, and so I decided to do an orgams with blocking. Now, this physical discomfort is not there anymore.

And third, the pace is too fast when I hold back for longer than two weeks. It is amazing how the energy is flowing, but somehow it gets too fast. It is like adding a new practise.

I love my practise session the way it is now. I will do 5 mins of SBP, 10 Mins DM and 5 Mins Samyama with four asanas postures before sitting practises for the next months and won´t add anything. The experiment with cosmic samyama failed. The last week was not good in work, and so I will stay at that level without cosmic samyama. But when I am holding back to long I get into overload too.

For me now at the point of my journey it is not about the fastest pace but the pace with the most balance. And for that I have to be flexible with orgasms. Does this make sense, or would it be better staying preorgasmic and reduce practises and practise time. So, doing only 10 Mins of DM without SBP, Samyama And asanas?? Maybe then I could stay in front of orgasm.

I hope I could show u my problem, and I am looking forward to hear your thoughts about this!

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Hi th1996,

The fastest possible rate of spiritual progress is the pace with the most balance. That is always the case. It is the same with a racing car driver. They can’t just push the gas pedal to the floor and keep it there. They have to sometimes ease off on the pedal, sometimes brake, sometimes change down a gear etc.

So, with our spiritual practices it is also about finding the right balance and that does include our sexual lifestyle. If a man is having an orgasm with ejaculation every day, that is likely to be an unbalanced state spiritually. They will probably be losing so much spiritual energy that they will make little, or no progress on the path of yoga. On the other hand, for most men, going without orgasm and ejaculation completely will also not be balanced. They will experience a gradual build-up of energy over time and end up feeling sexually frustrated and on edge. For most men, ejaculating once a week, or once every two weeks will help to keep the energies stable. This does depend on the individual and especially on their age. And I say “most men” because there are some men who are completely celibate and have no issues with that at all. Many monks live in this state (though not all).

Added to this is the fact that tantric sexual practices are spiritual practices and have a very strong effect on increasing the energy levels in the body. So, if someone has a meditation practice, with pranayama, samyama and asana, for example, and they then add tantric sexual practices on top of that, then there is a lot going on energetically. This does mean that someone who practices tantric sex every day, or several times a week, may not be able to do as much meditation and pranayama etc. as if they did not have the tantric sexual practice. They may also need to do more grounding practices every day, or at least several times a week.

So, it is all about adjusting our sitting practices and tantric sexual practices and grounding practices in order to find a level that works for us. And this will be dynamic, as the situation is constantly changing in terms of energy levels and levels of purification in the subtle nervous system, so it may need adjusting every week, or even every day. The more sensitive we become to our inner energies, the more we tend to make minor adjustments on the fly. We can even make minor adjustments during a practice session. We may sit down to practice in siddhasana, and then feel, after five minutes, that siddhasana is not a good idea that day, and change our posture to a less stimulating one. We may be engaging in tantric lovemaking with our partner, and then decide after an hour, that that is our limit energetically, and we would let our partner know that we need to stop there. So, once the balance is found, it has to be constantly maintained by being sensitive to what is going on, and making adjustments accordingly.

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This was actually the first I seem to recall seeing this technique. Even after almost 20 years of AYP practice, I still feel like I am at “kindergarten” level in some ways!

What I’ve been doing for many years is to have one blocked orgasm roughly every 10 to 20 days. Usually around 2 weeks it becomes physically uncomfortable and difficult to sleep if I do not have an orgasm, though it varies depending on factors such as whether I have any sexual relations or solo stimulation, and how much. I always block with the fingers and have never tried blocking any other way, perhaps because I did not know it was possible.

Would below be an accurate description of the tantric techniques from most to least prana lost?

  1. Orgasm with semen coming out as usual.
  2. Orgasm with semen going into the bladder because of finger pressure at perineum.
  3. Orgasm with semen going into bladder because of intense mulabandha.
  4. Orgasm with semen going into bladder (?) because of intense shambhavi.
  5. Orgasm with no semen coming out (or going into bladder?) because of consciously relaxing the muscles around the prostate.
  6. No orgasm.

I do not list “preorgasmic stimulation” here because that, as I understand it, is actually increasing the pranic movements and is not draining at all, though in my experience at least, it tends to hasten the day when remaining pre-orgasmic becomes uncomfortable somewhat. I also did not list “natural vajroli” here because my understanding is that is similar (this generally only happens to me if I engage in some level of stimulation, so may not count as “natural”; that said, it does not lead to a feeling of energy loss if some semen is found to have gone into the urine, but unfortunately it also does not relieve sexual tension the way orgasm does either).

As for 5, if the semen is not released at all (or is it?), does it still relieve the tension associated with not having had an orgasm in a while?

Overall, I feel like I have been making steady progress and seeing improvements all along, so I would not say that my current level of brahmacharya is a big obstacle to my spiritual progress, but I do continue to wonder whether I need to go for longer periods, or if my current rate of once every 10 to 20 days, usually aiming for two weeks, is enough? Probably the longest I’ve ever gone was 3 to 4 weeks, but I recall experiencing significant irritability. That said, it does, to an extent, seem to be a matter of habit: as the body may tend to feel hungry around our usual mealtime regardless of how much we’ve eaten that day, the body may start to “expect” orgasm around the interval it usually comes, which interval may be extended, though, thus far, for me, it has been difficult to push it much further than two weeks.

Anyway, thanks for any thoughts or experiences on the more advanced levels of blocking and/or brahmacharya, and whether it may be important to reach higher levels of spiritual attainment to go beyond what I am doing now, or if I can simply just keep making steady progress doing what I’m doing…

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Hi Tamasaburo,

I would say that is pretty accurate. With No. 5 though, ejaculation is avoided by relaxing the muscles in the pelvic area, which means there is no ejaculatory response from the body. This means no semen comes out and no semen is forced up into the bladder. So, No. 5 is pretty similar to No. 6 in terms of energy loss, where the ejaculatory response is also avoided completely.

All of this is not mentioned in the AYP lessons, probably because it is not necessary. In the Tantra Lessons, Yogani offers blocking with the fingers as an emergency option only. Blocking with the fingers is the easiest form of blocking and will work for most men. Then Yogani recommends moving on from there (if it is needed at all) to pre-orgasmic sex, as this will involve less energy loss, or risk of energy loss, than any blocking technique.

The issue of whether semen goes into the bladder, or not, is complicated by natural vajroli. When natural vajroli is occuring, semen is being drawn up into the bladder continuously, and this will tend to become stronger during heightened sexual activity. So, even if blocking an ejaculation works by completely relaxing the muscles in the pelvic area, semen may still come up into the bladder if natural vajroli is occuring.

And the whole orgasm vs. no orgasm thing also becomes complicated by the fact that we can enter a continuous orgasmic state during sex. We can even enter a continuous orgasmic state just during normal everyday life. And, semen can continuously be drawn up into the bladder throughout the day whilst we are living in a continuously orgasmic state. One could ask: “What does remaining pre-orgasmic during sex mean then?”. It really means never experiencing the movement of semen anywhere (up into the bladder, or out of the lingam) due to the ejaculatory response, but only due to natural vajroli.

Yogani discusses this continuous state of orgasm here:

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Hi Tristan,

Thank you for the reply. It seems that Yoga practice tends to gradually separate a few neurophysiological events that, in most men, are tightly linked:

  1. Going past a level of sexual stimulation (“point of no return”) that causes a series of usually involuntary muscle contractions in the pelvis to move the sperm, seminal fluid, prostate fluid, and other components into the perineal area and forcefully expel them all together as semen. Regardless of what else happens (whether semen is released, redirected into the bladder, or even not released at all because of a conscious relaxation preventing the usual contractions (?)), this event seems to (always?) result in a noticeable drop in the desire for further sexual stimulation and an associated relief from any associated sense of tension in the area.

  2. Secretion and/or movement of semen or its components, such as sperm, prostate fluid, etc.

  3. A subjective feeling of ecstasy usually centered around the genitals, but often involving the whole body. This may also spark quasi-voluntary muscle contractions throughout the body in addition to the usually wholly involuntary contractions meant to expel the semen.

As your post suggests, these events seem to become less tightly connected in various ways. Firstly, even for non-yoga practitioners, the association between 1 and 2 with 3 seems variable. Due to a variety of factors, some orgasms are very pleasurable and intense and others less so, but simply because 1 and 2 are occurring does not necessarily mean one will experience a strong feeling of ecstasy throughout the body, though usually it is somewhat pleasurable.

Second, as you mention, it becomes possible to experience something like 3 with only 2 but not 1 occurring, or even to experience 3 without 1 or 2. In the case of 2 and 3 without 1, I guess we call it “natural vajroli,” which can occur with or without physical stimulation. That is, just because there is movement of semen does not mean that 1 will occur. In my case, it is generally only in cases where there has been sexual stimulation that I find evidence of semen having moved (by seeing it in the urine), though I sometimes experience strong ecstatic feelings just because of e.g., shambhavi, kechari, kumbhaka, etc. and without any direct sexual stimulation.

When 2 and 3 occur without 1, however, although there is no sense of loss of prana/energy, there is also little, if any, of the associated relief from the sense of sexual tension that eventually makes it difficult to refrain from 1.

In one post I recall Yogani stating that the natural vajroli may bring relief from the buildup of a felt need for 1, though I personally have not yet experienced that. And it seems that you are saying that eventually natural vajroli either stops or becomes more of a purely energetic phenomenon, such that only no. 3 is happening, potentially continuously, even though there is no strong felt need for 1 or 2?

Also, this is more of an “academic” question, but it seems hard to pin down what, exactly, causes the big loss of prana associated with 1, given that semen can be lost (by being sucked into the bladder and expelled with the urine) without any energy loss in the case of natural vajroli, or with reduced energy loss in case of blocking, and ecstasy can also be experienced without energy loss. It seems like it is more of a neurological “switch” that gets flipped by 1, but if that were the case, it wouldn’t seem like blocking would make any difference, which it does.

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Hi Casey,

Yes, that is right, those three processes - orgasm (ecstasy), ejaculation (the physical muscular action) and release of sexual fluids, are normally all tightly correlated for most people, but through the practice of yoga they gradually become uncoupled and operate in different ways. That does not mean that they never happen at the same time. It is always possible to still have a regular orgasm, with a regular ejaculatory muscular response, and with the release of sexual fluids through the lingam. But, over time, we are moving more towards a state where orgasm becomes continuous, being experienced in the whole body, and even beyond the body in all directions, the ejaculatory muscular response almost never occurs, and sexual fluids are continuously moving up into the bladder, with prana from those fluids being taken up and transformed into amrita in the head, continuously dripping down from there as an ecstatic honey-like sensation all over the head and upper body.

And yes, in higher stages, the prana is taken directly from the sexual fluids in the glands and testes, so there is no longer any need for sexual fluids to be drawn up into the bladder. And yes, also, once this process of whole-body continuous orgasm is happening with vajroli being continuous, there is less desire for ordinary reproductive sex, and for the need for release of energy through ejaculation.

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