Truly, Carson, you are so wise. It’s not possible to force anyone into therapy! I think it’s more than enough at the moment that you are AWARE of her therapeutic needs. Then you, just by being yourself, will have a therapeutic effect on her! As I suggested earlier: do go on with whatever sexlife you are having as long as that feels ok, but start adding the long hugs to get closer to each other. You don’t have to be more passionately husband and wife than you are - it’s impossible to force anyway! From the type of connectedness you have right now - see if you can connect on a deeper physical plane as human to human by staying in long hugs a few times a day! That will be tough enough for her, I think! And if that works well… try the “just being naked together in bed” and stroke and carress eachothers bodies. This is not instead of your sexlife, but an add on in between. You are actually the best therapist she can have at the moment!!! Why? Her problem is around sex and a professional therapist can never come as close as a partner! This is what I wrote in my thesis, by the way, I stumbled on it yesterday:
You know, it’s good to get the oxytocin flowing in the body. It starts whenever we TOUCH eachother. Skin to skin sets off oxytocin releases. That’s why we love holding hands, giving eachother massages, hugs… children knows this. They are naturally physically close and we stiff adults love it! Oxytocin is the “bonding hormone”. It brings us humans to greater togetherness. It’s what’s mothers (also animal mothers like cows) releases when they breast feed. It’s why we can get milk from the cows - the calf buffs his head toward the udder to start an oxytocin release that makes the milk flow…
Every relationship is unique, we can all be sure that the one we are in is the absolute best to give us what we need in this moment to progress on our spiritual path, we are simply designed to attract these circumstances into our lives. When it is time to move on we will know deep down and it is our choice to honor that knowing or not. The thoughts we carry into the relationship can impact it dramatically. So having ideas of it not being ideal or this person not being our “soul mate” etc. can prevent us from experiencing these very things and there would be great benefit from inquiring if these ideas are true.
The frequency of sex is very related to the newness of the relationship. The vast majority of relationships begin with sex occurring with much more frequency than after the first couple of years, so there is no failing in a relationship if it occurs less, the dynamic of the couple determines this and there is no right or wrong, if one person is dissatisfied, then this is something that needs to be addressed, otherwise there is no problem unless we think there is. I can’t speak for moksha, but abstaining from orgasm is not necessary to awaken kundalini.
Yes my heart is calling me to be a “spiritual sex worker” for my wife. Very much so. There is noone else who could or would help her, (not even herself) so this position has been handed to me I feel. But no, I do not feel adaquately prepared for this position. But you know what? I NEVER feel adequately prepared for the positions God has been forcing me into lately, but I always find the right things coming out of my mouth anyways. Funny how that works isn’t it. Regardless, the inadequacy I feel in this area is the reason I started this thread. In hopes of feeling more adequate in dealing with these issues. And don’t worry, we have stopped having any sex for the time being, so there is no danger in increasing or compounding the issues. Thanks for the advice.
Love,
Carson
Aw, I’m blushing . Haha. I’m not wise, (I’m not anything but here) but thank you for saying that!
Yeah unfortunately this is the case. And even if you CAN force someone into therapy you can’t force them to get anything out of it. Stupid free will. Haha.
I hope you are right because I found out last night that “Repressed Memory Therapy” has been discreditted as a valid form of psychotherapy and noone does it anymore. Great. Actually the first time my wife ever told me about this (I had suspected long before, but had never spoken of it) was after we both did Ketamine in bed and in her trip she realized that she thinks she was sexually abused as a child. We had planned on doing more Ketamine in hopes of her learning more later, but I ended up losing my overseas connection to it, and can’t get enough consistantly to actually do this kind of theraputic work ourselves. Damn.
Well, after having a few private discussions about this with a few other people I feel that continuing sex at this point is a bad idea. It has been suggested that there is a potential that my wife’s kundalini was awakened due to her CSA and that us having sex at this point could be detrimental to her ability to balance her energy right now, so until we can sort some of this out, we will not be having “sex”. She is ok with this. My wife does not practice AYP (or anything spiritual at all) so she has no way of dealing with energy excesses and should sex cause the kundalini to flow excessively I am nervous that continuing sex could cause more damage then good. I am happy to leave it at deeply affectionate huggin for now and I thank you for that wonderful suggestion.
Yes, as I was saying to Micheal above, I do not feel passionately connected to my wife as I had a deeply passionate relationship with my last partner and do not feel (right now) that I am capable of loving anyone else the way I loved her. This doesn’t mean I don’t love my wife, I do, it just means it is not a passionate type of love like what I had with my previous partner. Perhaps this will change in the future. I have no doubts that it will.
I have already started implementing this strategy and it seems to be working. My wife seemed to really want to have sex last night,(after a nice long hug) but instead I held her close and didn’t push it any further and she fell asleep quickly in my arms. It was beautiful, at least for me.
I hope so cause I’m the only one she will let near her! haha.
Yes this seems to be most logical. Who better to help work through sexual issues with then an unconditionally loving sexual partner. One who does not force anything. Wise words from a wise woman!
Is there a possibility though emc, that my wife has an “aversion” to oxytocin? That the release of this hormone/chemical causes her to subconsciously think about the times when this hormone was released during her abuse situations and make her less likely to want or enjoy physical contact? Could this be possible? Thanks again for all you loving and helpful advice!
Love,
Carson
Yes I understand this, but I cannot convince myself of something that isn’t there. I do not love my wife the way I loved my last partner. It would be lying to myself to say that I do. I am not saying that it is not possible in the future, just that it isn’t this way right now. I am not shutting the door on anything, just being realistic I feel.
Of course. Frequency of sex is not really the issue here though. I am fine having less sex, and I know she is too. (at least for now) BUT, that said, our sex life is not healthy. She hates orgasming (especially during intercourse) and will do anything to avoid this. This is indicitive of sexual trauma, and I think it is important to deal with this before hoping or pushing to fix the frequency of sex problem. And I realize that staying pre-orgasmic is not required to awaken kundalini, I just lose so much energy when I orgasm that it is not worth it to me. I’d much rather not orgasm if possible. I don’t stress about it if it happens though. Everything happens for a reason right? Thanks for the advice and thoughts.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson,
It seems from what you shared in this thread, you’ll do indeed an amazing “spiritual sex worker” for your wife. You seem to have an acute self-consciousness of lacking these specific techniques but as you said, they will come in due time.
One rule: you’re never looking to orgasm for yourself when doing that type of ritual & it seems your vessel is ready for that part.
Second rule: realize that you are a conduit monitored by God trying to find way so your wife will orgasm. At some point , the orgasm will create impressive kriyas in your wife that will not scare you because of your yogic knowledge. Then you’ll know when to stop sexual massage & rather propose curling presence.
Third rule: it is physical monitored by your heart listening the divine of what to do and not things coming out of your mouth as you wrote above.
Hope this helps, Albert
Yes I definitely do have an “acute self-consciousness” about how to approach this, but this makes me listen to my heart that much more for instruction. A blessing in disguise really.
Yes, it is never about my orgasm anymore. (thank God! haha)
Can you explain to me what you mean by “curling presence”? Don’t quite understand this part of Rule 2.
Yes I realize this and I think the way you took my statement was a miscommunication due to you speaking French andnot English as a first language. All I was meaning is that despite not knowing what to say or do, the right things always seem to happen, whether that is by saying the right thing, doing the right thing, or not doing or saying anything at all. Didn’t mean that I should be listening to what comes out of my mouth persay. Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson
Well Carson, it is a capacity in a few seconds to shift from sexual massage towards hugging, holding hands, listening to deep sorrow, yelling, crying, shivering, vomiting… hence a non-sexual attitude as a very close friend in order to help your wife go through the detox triggered before by the “spiritual sexual worker”.
In Shakti, Albert
Unfortunately I have had to cut out samyama as well, but I’m getting back to it now, so I’ll gladly add your wife to it!
I doubt she has an aversion to the hormone itself. I’d rather believe it’s caused by a conditioned response to the touching itself which is connected to the awkward experiences.
I’ve been wondering about this off and on as I deal with this…At first I thought the same as what you are saying above, but then I started to wonder about why my wife has an aversion to doing meditation as well. Could it not be that she does have some kind of dislike for the release of oxytocin since she does not like how meditation nor physical touching makes her feel and both cause the release of this hormone? Just a thought.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson
My guess would be that she doesn’t like meditation because…in the relaxation…it will surface. The subtle smell of what she unconsciously supresses will make itself known…and she is not ready for it.
This is why she is first and foremost in need of treatment. And since she only trusts you…there you have it. Every instant you spend together will reveal your selves to your selves.
So you keep meditating…you look…and then silence will let you approach her again and again whenever the opening is there.
The hugging…I hope you will do lots of it
carson, I read some of this, but not all. my point of view is just that, my point of view. You talk about wanting to help her, of course you do, you have a great heart. Oftentimes we walk along the path of life and try and transform. We have not always transformed however we may be exictied about our path and try and force others along it. When we do this our focus may turn to me helping them, rather then our transformation process. The fact that we feel we are helping others may give us a stregth, that our practice does not. So trying to fix others at times will not allow us to see our paths as clarly. We may even look to validate our path based on the number of people we have convinced to follow this same path. Personally I have done this many times
We are humans, so of course we cannnot be perfect. Sometimes when we try and help we actually push away, sometimes when we let things be we pull them towards us. What makes the changes for you may not be needed by others. You may need postures and meditation which calm your mind. then you wife sees your mind getting calmer and in turn her mind may calm, she sees your energy increase and just by seeing that her energy may increase. Because of your path, her path may need a lot less practices. Buddha was enlightened and said “if you could see the miracle of this flower clearly your whole life would change” a person in the audiance, suddenly became enlightened. Much less of a process then buddha took.
I am not saying to not practice, sounds as if your practices are fun and are leading you to places you enjoy. That is great for you. If you put pressure on her to do the practices she may move away from you. Maybe the pressure is spoken or unspoken. She may sense either. My opinion, the more you move into a positive space, the more she sees that, she will evolve whether or not you notice it.
as far as the sex stuff, well maybe explore each other more, every inch of oneself, each other. ask her if you can do this at times without sexual stimulation and then maybe times with stimulation. in life we balance surrender and boundries. we help each other through our tough times the best we know how.
self realization? what blocks that? just the acceptance of self? Not seeing the flower clearly?
some thoughts
Neil
Hi Katrine and emc (who has nothing to add to your answer ),
Possible. She used to join us for group meditations on Thursday evenings, but now she prefers to take the dogs into the other room and watch TV while we meditate. I have never pushed AYP or yoga on her, have always just tried to let my actions speak louder then any words.
Hugging, hugging, hugging…that’s my new approach to everything with her . That and trying to never get “upset” with her, and always try to approach things from a “we can work this out” type perspective.
Yes, I am really not pushy about this all. It may seem like it from all I have written, but my wife really still has no idea any of this is being talked about here, (or is even being thought about in my head) and I doubt she’s even noticed a difference in things at home other then me hugging her a lot more and for a lot longer.
You know it! I wonder what she thinks about it though. I’m sure she is like, “what the hell is up with my husband these days? He doesn’t ever seem to want to have sex, but he won’t stop hugging me all the time! What the hell?” haha. Oh the joys of marriage .
Love,
Carson
Hello Brother Neil and thank you for your post and thoughts. Hope you are doing well my friend.
Yeah, I am not trying to force anything on my wife. Not meditation, not sex, not therapy. She does not know I am talking about this, nor that I am even thinking about this. (At least I don’t think she knows. If she does it is only a hunch for sure) I am very happy living by example and allowing my transformation to do it’s thing on her as well. BUT, there are some seriously troubling aspects of our lives that do need attention (at least in the future) and this is why I am talking about this at the forum… Please understand that all that has been said here in this thread is unbeknownst to my wife, and recently we have talked about the subject for maybe 5 minutes of the past 4 months. Not pushing her for sure. Thanks for the reminder though.
Wise words and ones I try to live by everyday. Another great reminder.
Beautiful. Yes this is how it seems to be unfolding in my household. Not saying that I’m about to make my wife enlightened or anything, just saying that my journey is definitely rubbing off on her even if it’s just through the ways that our relationship is changing for the better. I’m sure it goes much deeper then that though.
I don’t pressure her to do anything. At least not consciously, and I try very hard to be aware of my sub-conscious so if I do it sub-consciously I think it is probably pretty minimal. I really try hard not to throw guilt at anyone anymore, especially my wife. She is free to do as she pleases, as much as I would love to steer her one way or the other. I hope that this makes more of a difference then it would if I tried to direct her. I’m sure it does. It may take longer for her to realize things, but when the realization happens it comes from inside her, not from me, so it means that much more I think.
The problem is basically that she doesn’t like to be touched much. Even getting her to stay in contact throughout a long hug can be difficult sometimes. With clothes ON! There are some deep seated issues here, just so deep that she can’t see them anymore. Or at least that is how she seems and presents it to me. Thanks for the wonderful advice my brother and it was wonderful to hear from you again!
Love,
Carson
thanks for your kind words brother, just passing along some observations
how about holding hands and going for a walk? and if she does not like that you could always ask “may I hold your hand?”
my best to you brother
Neil
I know and they are greatly appreciated. Any outside perspective is good as I may be too close to the situation to be able to see it perfectly. Thank you.
Yes of course I can do this . She is uncomfortable with even this little of touching though and I have to be very gentle and loving about it. Not demanding in any way. Asking in advance may lead her to suspect that I am trying to coax her past this issue though and I think it’s best if I just DO it. Walking on eggshells always pissed me off more then it helped. At least for me anyways.
Love,
Carson
Namaste Carson,
I’ve been in yoga for a lot of years but so far, I haven’t found a spiritual school that would be worth giving up common sense. Although I love staying preorgasmic during sex, I can still appreciate an ejac orgasm near a full moon day - I don’t bother as long as it’s actively chosen in advance and made with eyes and hearts wide open; I try to be reasonably pragmatic: when she joined me for a part of a journey for example, I came on the night before her trip back, rather than scanning my calendar for full moons…
That said, to follow the rhythm of nature -such as the Moon or the seasons or her period- certainly makes things physically easier and it also takes a middle course through the who’s-in-charge-dilemma: although the Shakti by and large enjoys running the show, she’s also turned on by the Siva not giving up easily every now and then.
So, be sensitive to your own body and tell her to be sensitive to hers, and then figure out if there’s a rhythm you might agree upon (anything from once a week to once a year).
Namaste HathaTeacher and thank you for your input!
Sounds more then reasonable to me, let’s see what the wife says when I can get her to talk about it next.
Love,
Carson
. Haha. I’m not wise, (I’m not anything but here) but thank you for saying that!
Haha.
Unfortunately I have had to cut out samyama as well, but I’m getting back to it now, so I’ll gladly add your wife to it!
.