Emc,
Your “mess” is really your being extremely gifted and sensitive to yoga practice which is a rare and wonderful thing. So be proud of that, even if it means not playing in all the reindeer games.
Yoda
Hi EMC,
I came into AYP the same way as you did… and like you I had many of my experiences in the wrong order… and had kundalini stuff and crown activity… I was also foolish and stubborn enough not to follow advice in the lessons and by others and did loads of practices … because they were so easy. Things started falling in place after I cut down everything and started from the beginning… like I knew nothing… Just meditation… then once I got stable in that … i did spinal breathing… and so on… When you cut back on everything and then add one thing back at a time… its easier to control your practice…
Check out this thread may help you a bit… Housecleaning?
Hello & Namaste EMC,
First, I’d like to sincerely thank you for your candor and honesty - your obvious and genuine courage - and your trust, in posting so “nakedly” (and no innuendo in using that word; I’m trusting that you’ll inherently “get” what I mean.)
Yogic sadhana is the most challenging thing any of us will ever do – and it is also the only - only - thing that will take us home – or, more accurately: yoga is the only thing that will help us to realize that we are home - it literally can’t be any different than that – though on certain days (and believe me, I truly understand how crappy life can seem in a given moment, or on a given day) ---- it can sure feel as if we’re far from home.
Not true.
The ego - our limited and false sense of self - wants to keep itself employed - and it’s got some pretty serious tricks – up to and including abject terror, and/or a rage you may not even be able to conceive of, at this stage (and I don’t say that to scare you; both of those things can be seen and dealt with, with a lot less anguish, drama and suffering than you might realize, today.)
And please know, too — you’re far from alone in dealing with the human stuff – in my case, it just doesn’t always feel pertinent to discuss here – but I’m happy to do so as much as it might help any or all of us.
As “for instances”, I’m out of work, and financially in a very, very dire situation - facing eviction from my apartment, car without registration or insurance, unemployment checks chewed up just to keep the lights on, and paying the bills I must pay (including medical insurance) to keep life in “operating condition”.
I’ve got some alienation from certain family members, and grief related to my mother’s passing (last year - right before the holidays) - both of which feel fairly “acute” right now.
And there’s more - probably a couple of instances of “serious more” - and please know, I say none of this to “play the violin”, but to highlight the following truth, for which I am unspeakable grateful:
Yoga (including meditation, pranayama - “all things AYP”) works.
There’s a great line from a less than mediocre move (Roadhouse, with Patrick Swayze) - where a doctor is patching him up after a bar brawl - but he’s a bit of a philosopher, too – so when the doctor comments on his injuries, and/or what she’s going to do to patch him up, he says, simply:
“Pain don’t hurt.”
Sounds crazy — but I’m learning that it’s quite true.
A few years ago, I tossed and turned and moaned and groaned over things much less severe than my current circumstances (technically) are - but suffered SO much more.
I had a huge house, a sexy and intelligent fiancee’, four BMWs (no kidding - conspicuous consumption at its finest), a fat paycheck, a nice high-level title, and a bank account that would solve all my current financial problems several times over ---- and more daily existential / emotional / mental pain than I can even conceive of, currently.
The best way I know how to put it, is:
Thoughts and emotions both “touch” me less - a LOT less - than they used to - to the tune of a good 90% or so – and I’d say I’m a good 900% happier than I’ve ever been - VERY truly - with at least 90% LESS suffering on a daily basis.
Yoga works (and I don’t have any illusions that I’ve progressed ultra-far … the biggest single favor I ever did for myself was to get really honest with myself about how and where life seemed to be “drawing” (pulling) me – for instance: into kirtan, which caused a lightbulb to go off, in connection with kirtan and kechari - which brought me to AYP.)
Our minds will be more than glad to show us how horrible it all is, if we let them.
In my experience, life seems to unfold pretty much as it does (and if you think of how interconnected everything and everyone one is, this makes sense) — and our only real choice is how much we suffer (or don’t).
For instance, these current struggles I have, are clearly karmic (even if just as the “within this lifetime” consequence of previous choice) - so I can wail and whine and play “victim”, or I can rage against all the unfairness that happened, to put me here (not actual unfairness, mind you — not too sure if that exists) – etc. etc. - and be miserable.
Or, I can do as I’m doing — notice emotional pain and negative thoughts as they arrive, NOT suppress the authenticity of my human side as it arises (but acknowledge it as part of the truth of the Now) - and hold genuine gratitude for what I do have – the yogic path, clear signs of advancement spiritually, a wealth of resources (including this forum) to help evolve my spiritual life, a few wonderful people who I love, and who love me, a great circle of friends, relatively good health, etc. etc. etc.
I certainly have the ammunition to suffer if I want to – but not only do I truly not want to ---- yogic practice ultimately makes it relatively EASY.
I don’t TRY to have greater equanimity, or to feel emotions less (and please note - emotions are NOT suppressed – they’re felt fully; they just don’t “hit” me as deeply – because before, I thought they were part of me; they’re not — they’re emotions. Ditto thoughts.
Do I ever have a mentally or emotionally rough day?
You bet I do.
When might that be?
When I OVERDO with practices.
Pretty much everything you’re describing sounds like a direct effect of your practices – including the newfound awareness that men don’t just suck — they really suck.
And I truly hate to be the bearer of “bad” news … but it really ain’t true.
No “them” is the enemy, whether it be people of a different political persuasion, spiritual path, nationality, race, religion or gender (believe me, I know - I’m Californian - we have several of them here - genders, I mean. 
).
It’s almost more like this:
Did you ever do those “spin” paintings, as a kid? There was this little machine, that would spin a cardboard-ish canvas around really fast - and you would take a few primary colors - red, blue, green, etc. - and splash them on the spinning “canvas” - and created a really unique design?
Karmically-driven humanity is much like that — our primary archetypes are more common, and shared than any of our egos would like to believe – my “end-splatter” - my “painting” - looks different than yours - but the colors that comprise it are the same.
Not similar.
The same.
And the blank canvas is the most “same” of all — it’s not the same type of canvas … it’s the same canvas.
If you were a 45 year old man, living in California most of his life, raised in the home I was raised in, etc. etc. – meaning: if you had had my life (and likely, “lives” per yogic teachings) - you wouldn’t be a lot like me — you’d be me.
Just as I would, given your exact life / karma (including any previous lives) be you.
I find it really useful to think of it that way.
Primarily, because it is that way.
“We are all one” is not a cool, lofty concept (or pathetic new age tripe, depending on the kind of day you’re having … ) - it’s the plain and simple truth.
This plane of reality - the coarsest level of the physical plane - is designed to make everything appear upside down and backwards - so that we can learn by experience what Reality is all about.
It looks like love isn’t always the answer.
(It is.)
It looks like fear makes sense.
(It doesn’t.)
It looks like facing our “stuff” will be torture.
(It won’t.)
It looks like “others” are the enemy.
(There are no others - and no enemies - except in the deluded dance of our dreaming egos.)
A great phrase I heard a while back - “There are no victims, and no villains.”
So — when you’re having a rough day, but all means - have a rough day (neither suppression or escape work - they both make things worse).
You’re not doing anything wrong — experiencing this moment - including any suffering, doubt, frustration, etc. IS the yogic path - it IS doing the great work of TRUTH.
But remember: the sword of honesty cuts both ways – just as (as an example), “I’m grieving” might be true, so might “and I’m adding to it, by indulging in my thoughts and emotions.”
Yoga is hard work, EMC - but my GOD is it worth it — and most of it feels pretty darn good.
And know this, too ---- I don’t think you’re nearly as much of a beginner, or as “immature” as you may think.
As you may know, the Divine Mother as Warrior Goddess is Durga – and I see you as Durga - fighting the tough, but good and worthy fight - and winning.
You may see a woman who is not measuring up — I see a woman who is directly dealing with the deepest stuff of her heart, that most people in the world have no conception of - and that they refuse to face when they do see it.
I hope that’s helpful - but more than anything, I just want you to know that I consider you (as I consider everyone here) my friend - and you have my genuine respect, affinity and warm-hearted friendship.
It’s a cool little global Sangha (spiritual “tribe” / family) we’re creating here.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanmonkey
PS - Say HI to the cat for me …
Anthem and Shanti, thanks for advice! I do think I am self-pacing as much as I can. Doing excercise, taking long walks in the forest every lunch, taking long showers and bathes to get water contact… and I am doing 3-5 min pranayama and 10-15 min meditation, depending on how much time I have. The pranayama could, from what I understand function in opposite ways - I hope it is stabilizing my already strong energies, feels like it does that. My automatic yoga stuff that I have experienced during the year have decreased lately. It was also a help when I understood that the autmacy is no good, and that I can and should stop it. So I guess I should stop the tounge from trying to go to kechari stage 2. It is a happy but rather unsensitive force trying to express itself in a body that is not ready.
One question, though, the sexual energy during meditation, should I let it release in physical orgasm and let it have its way, or should I direct it by will up the spine and out in the body? I have just let it be, since I understand that I do NOTHING else but prioritate the mantra. Would it help to direct it upwards?
Yoda and Kirtanman, thanks for those words both of you. I have had people coming up to me during workshops telling me I am the most sensitive in the room, the greatest teacher who is able to pick up everyone’s thoughts and express them so that others may learn from it… I often hear I am “naked” as you say…
Kirtan, that is a good picture I will try to remember - that the ego is using very smart tricks to pull you back and will be more than happy to show us life is horrible! I know that, but I forget. I know in my heart pain does not hurt. Pain is pure love. But I forget. I know there are no “enemies”… it is just… My mind is such a trickster. I get this cosmic glimpse, see the canvas you talk about, I know how the karmic wheel works, I feel in every cell in my body that pain is love - I have often written here in forum about my experiences… Then I fall out of the love that is so strong during the “insights”, only the memory of “how it works” is left and then I start to handle the knowledge with my mind, dislike it, thinking the whole system is stupid. Have I really been a part of coming up with this idea? Yes, since we are all one. My mind is cursing my soul for being so stupid inventing a system of karma, forgetfulness and separation bla bla, bringing my mind to fight itself, which it is so tired of. 
Isn’t my mind a cutie?
R D Laing was my favourite since I was 16…
“The range of what we think and do is limited by what we fail to notice. And because we fail to notice that we fail to notice, there is little we can do to change; until we notice how failing to notice shapes our thoughts and deeds.”
R. D. Laing
There must be something the matter with him
because he would not be acting as he does
unless there was
therefore he is acting as he is
because there is something the matter with him
He does not think there is anything the matter with him
because
one of the things that is
the matter with him
is that he does not think that there is anything
the matter with him
therefore
we have to help him realize that,
the fact that he does not think there is anything
the matter with him
is one of the things that is
the matter with him
there is something the matter with him
because he thinks
there must be something the matter with us
for trying to help him to see
that there must be something the matter with him
to think that there is something the matter with us
for trying to help him to see that
we are helping him
to see that
we are not persecuting him
by helping him
to see we are not persecuting him
by helping him
to see that
he is refusing to see
that there is something the matter with
him
for not seing there is something the matter
with him
for not being grateful to us
for at least trying to help him
to see that there is something the matter with
him
for not seeing that must be something the
matter with him
for not seeing that there must be something the
matter with him
for not seeing that there is something the
matter with him
for not seeing that there is something the
matter with him
for not being grateful
that we never tried to make him
feel grateful
/R D Laing “Knots”
/Thank you for all your kindness, everybody! I have a much better day today… My radio woke me up this morning with the song: “I’m coming home”
Very nice post Kirtanman… Thanks for sharing that…
EMC, you are doing the right thing by staying with the practice (I think). I had asked Yogani this some time back… if I should direct the sexual energy up during my spinal breathing, etc… and he had said… just stay with your practice… not to make an effort to direct the energy anywhere… well, things did smooth out over time.
Do you sit is Siddhasana?
Hi EMC,
I agree with Shanti’s advice here. I would only add that if you are doing any additional mudras, like bastrika, yoni mudra, jalandra, mulabandha, sambhavi, etc. you may want to cut these out for a while and continue with the amount of time you are doing but with just the bare-bones pranayama spinal breathing and meditation. Over time, as you become more stable, then perhaps add these other mudras in very gradually and one at a time.
You are already moving very fast, you need to give your physical body time to catch up! This is advice I give to myself all the time!
Good luck,
A
ps- If you are looking for words of wisdom, type Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie or Adyashanti into the search at www.youtube.com.
Good heavens… I do not even know what all those things mean yet. I started with plain meditation and went on with adding plain deep breathing pranayama. I just started to try mulabandha and sambhavi and it doesn’t work at all when trying, so I guess I’d better quit trying at once. So I honestly don’t know what to cut down…
Thanks a lot, though for the info, Shanti. Then I am doing the right thing, just letting it pass.
Thank you very much. Your help and concern is a blessing.
PS: Ah… I think your self-pacing advices comes from the perspective that “things usually goes smooth and when overdoing practices strong emotions bubble up”. I think this is more the case for me: I have all my life been in emotional turmoil so “things usually goes with lots of frustration, depression and anger and when doing practices it generally smooths out, but sometimes I fall back into ‘normal’ behaviour”. Sort of.
Hi EMC,
Thanks very much for your kind words, in response to my post – and I’m glad at least some of the info was useful.
On the truly pragmatic level - how all of this relates to your sitting practices, and vice-versa – it seems like your question above is the flip-side of your other one (should you “direct” orgasmic energy upward, in any way?).
And (Good News! ) - it seems like you’re right on the cusp of your own answer (the guru is in you), per the following example:
You mentioned something about feeling like you might be nearing readiness for full kechari, because the tongue naturally goes up.
The operative word is “naturally”.
I had a somewhat similar experience, regarding orgasmic energy - though having a male body this time around, it manifested somewhat differently in the beginning … though currently, I doubt there’s much difference at all … I’ll begin to feel the “foothills” of a mountainous orgasm while just sitting – but a few months ago, I went with my intuition, and began a lot of proactive, and literally manual tantric solo practice, to “cultivate” this current stage and ability.
The reason I go into all that, is: I genuinely get (I think) what it feels like to have powerful energy (especially orgasmic energy) arise spontaneously - and have the mind wonder what to do about it.
(And as always, I think Yogani’s advice is 100% on the mark – the only reason I proceeded a bit differently than to “let it be” entirely, was that I felt 100% spiritual clarity concerning the rightness of the tantric solo practice — if I hadn’t, I would have very likely asked Yogani about it, just as you did.
I don’t always feel such clarity - and don’t rush full speed ahead, when that’s the case (I’ve finally learned - at least somewhat! ).
So — per my beginning comments in this post — a good 90% or so of the answer you seek, seems as though it can be found in your current awareness, concerning what feels natural.
Stage 1 of kechari feels natural, so you let the tongue come up.
Sambhavi and mulabandha don’t feel natural, and you appear to be in “kundalini overload mode” anyway — so a combination of doing (or in this case, not doing) what feels natural and common sense would seem to say to put those things (mulabandha and sambhavi, specifically) on the shelf, for the time being.
(Plus, doing that, it’s not nearly as likely that your head will explode and/or that you’ll short out all your appliances! )
And yes, of course I’m joking - about your head exploding.
I don’t know if anyone here has had glaringly different experiences - but I’ve always found that when it’s truly time to add a practice (I’m thinking of sambhavi, in terms of a personal example from my own practice, this past year) – when it was naturally the time for me to add sambhavi - I didn’t make a concious decision to do so — my body just did it.
My eyes went up, my concentration went to the brow center, and there was an ultra-subtle sense of muscular contraction between my eyebrows - automatically - just as my tongue went up, when it was time to start the early stage of kechari.
… And per my posts on my whole kechari mini-drama – I did try to force kechari a bit … and it just wouldn’t work – until it was naturally time to be able to go into Stage 2 kechari – and then, it seemed almost too easy!
Likewise, when it was natural for me to draw orgasmic (or pre-orgasmic) energy upward — it’s what my body (physical and subtle) - wanted to do, and started to do, naturally.
With our physical sadhana (specifically sitting practices - the spinal breathing and meditation that are the cornerstones of AYP) - it’s almost like we point our body-mind in the right direction, and much of it becomes like a snowball rolling downhill … in a very good way!
As with your other post (about we make-up-less simian creatures who have been put here to annoy the bejeebers out of you, personally … ) ----- it’s when the mind gets involved that things get interesting - in much the same way that giving a feral ferret an significant quantity of high-grade, barely stepped-on cocaine, and releasing it into a formal dinner party, will cause things to get interesting … as in: “soup may become spilled” … ).
If you allow yourself to be guided by the guru who is in you – you may well and truly find that you don’t need to give nearly as much mental energy to all this (both sitting practices and daily angst ) - and that it will unfold in surprisingly natural ways, at exactly the right time.
One of my fave quotes on this topic:
“Life knows what it is doing” – Adyashanti
We really, really don’t have to try to control it.
ANY of it.
I understand (the “good people of AYP” have seen a lot more of how my mind works than many people – and I imagine every one here may believe me when I say …) - I understand what it is to have an active mind.
“It’s a feral ferret, sure - but it’s cute! And everyone enjoys a little high-grade cocaine now and then, and he seems kind of ADD-ish anyway, so it’ll actually keep him quiet … and women love cute, cuddly creatures, so maybe he’ll be a bit of an icebreaker … I’ll just tuck him into my tux pocket here, and let him play by my feet, at the dinner party, if he needs some air …”
What might well happen next could probably best be described as:
“Unintended Results”
So, when your mind starts yammering about the inherently annoying-as-crap nature of the male gender, or about how you’re doing it all “wrong”, or has all sorts of input from every possible angle, concerning what you should do with orgasmic energy in meditation …
Just remember …
“Back away from the ferret!”
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - I loved the extended poem-thingy in your last post – with possible adjustment for gender (“She” instead of “He”) – I’m sure we’ve all been on one or both sides of that equation, regarding someone who just could not see what was “the matter” with them (personally, I’ve been that person - the subject of the poem - more than I’ve been affected by such a person’s inability to accept my “holy help” … but I have been on both sides.)
It’s almost funny (hell, it is funny!) - how our minds can be SO sure they’re right, right up to a certain point … (giggle "Something’s tickling my leg … oh my God, it’s an animal – and it looks all coked-out … oh my God, what’s it doing to the soup bowl?! - aaaAAAaaaaAAAaaahhhhhh!!)
(And sure, some ancient Buddhist lineage may want to nail me for plagiarism — but I personally find “Coked-Out Ferret” to be a much “fresher” illustration of the nature of the egoic mind, in comparison to that way overused monkey-mind thing … ))
Kirtan, love your humor and way of writing! Thank you, a lot of what you write is very helpful!
Right you are - things come naturally and I should trust it. Ferrets… good picture!
About the poem, it is Laing’s - I was not clear enough on that… I’ll add his name again under it!
Yes, indeed, life knows what it’s doing… As a response to this issue, this is what happened today:
I was in the city and passed by a chrystal store I had noticed before and had previously thought “Probably a new age chrystal shop, gotta check it out some day”. Now I felt it was time. I went in and it was not new age at all - it was an expensive chrystal art shop. I looked around and found an artist who had made spiritual art, so I bought one piece as a gift for a friend who is coming to visit during Christmas. Then the owner started to talk, and don’t ask me how we got into it, but he suddenly started to talk about the importance of honesty, the disaster of adultery, his own moral in regard to his wife, how you should never go to bed angry with each other, that you have to give each other freedom, the generousity he showed his customers, the importance of getting your life straight… He said “I don’t have any customers”. All who came to his shop were persons that he liked and cared for. He was 70 years old and had had 17 heart attacks and according to himself had “died 17 times”. I started to cry and he came and gave me a warm hug. I talked to him for 30 minutes. It was absolutely wonderful!
Life wanted to show me an example of the noble man I have such trouble finding. Hm… perhaps it comes with age? My last partner was 48… I might go for an older one next time.
And talking about mind transformation - a funny thing have established itself in my mind. It is clearly visualized. One day I sat on the tube thinking negatively about myself. I thought “I am so good at coaching others, why don’t I coach myself?” And I cloned myself into two. One of them got a jacket with a big S on it - S as in Soul Saver. S started to cheer the other one (that is “me”) up and as a direct response, the phone of the person next to me rang. The signal was James Browns “I feel good”.
Now, this S figure is like a mental fool showing up suddenly, always exaggerating what “me” is feeling, making fun of it, but in a very kind way in order to show me how silly I am believing my thoughts. If I feel bad it starts acting and jumping around like Michael Jackson singing “I’m bad”… etc. When I am serious and worry I see the fool in the corner of my eye being busy doing a hip hop head spin or something playful! It is truly great fun and I always start to laugh when I see what my clone soul saver is up to. When I get annoyed over women wearing make-up it directly starts putting on all the make-up in the world and being exactly what I don’t like, to tease me (that is, showing me I have the very same character or behaviour myself). I love it. Do you think THAT jerk is my guru? [:O]
Thanks, EMC — I genuinely appreciate your kind words.
Great post - love the story about the Chrystal shop guy, and the S-EMC coach!
My chiropractor is a good friend of mine, and I was her last patient today, so we got to talking – and she was telling me about The Secret (I think you started the thread about it, a few weeks ago?) - and all the “strange” little synergies that have been happening to her lately.
Yet, those strange little synergies are the way life naturally flows - when we don’t try to drive along with the “parking brake” of our mind engaged (“What’s that smell? Uh oh …!” )
Again - very nice post - thanks!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - She loaned me The Secret; I’ll probably watch it this weekend. I know it’s supposed to be a bit basic, but some reminders can come at just the right time, too (either that or "all reminders always come at the just right time … " )