Hello AYP Forum,
I happened to awaken Kundalini in January and experienced some energy excesses. While things have relatively stabilised, I am trying to figure out when and if I should masturbate.
The times masturbation brings relief is when my sex drive is low to non-existent and I’m guessing it functions as an energy release. However, it’s strange because I don’t know when exactly to masturbate.
I’ve also noticed that masturbating when there is lust in my mind (rarely these days) leads to a sort of negative train of thought - it seems to trigger a loop where the ego becomes more active again and takes a few weeks to re-establish a “spiritual” feeling.
I’m looking for advice on how to manage seminal fluid and if at all I should. I’ve experienced what seems to be like seminal fluid traveling upward and spilling into the brain at times.
Thank you!
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
Hi Pranar,
If things have stabilized for you then there is no need to be using orgasm with ejaculation to try to manage energetic excesses. As you have found, it can lead to a loss of prana and a feeling of spiritual and energetic depletion that can last for days, or even weeks.
So being prudent with sex and refraining from losing semen is a wiser choice. That does not mean that you need to go completely the other way and become celibate. That can be experienced as a form of repression which can also have negative effects. So finding a balance, whilst preserving most of your energy (prana) for spiritual purposes is the best way forward.
And yes, as you have discovered, sexual fluid and energy can move upwards through the body. This is caused by the kundalini energy creating a kind of “pull” or “draw” on the fluid, causing the fluids to be drawn up naturally into the bladder. This can happen to both men and women. From there, the prana from the fluid is drawn further upwards, mixing with other forms of prana in the body and is eventually drawn up to the brain and the higher centres (chakras). It can even trickle out of the higher chakras giving a sensation of honey, or liquid light, dripping from the crown or third eye, or down the back of the throat into the mouth.
If this is happening, it is something that should be nurtured. It is very purifying for the subtle body. The liquid coming up from the manipura chakra to the brain is called soma and the liquid coming down from the higher centres is called amrita.
This process will not happen if you lose sexual energy through orgasm with ejaculation. So nurturing this process by refraining from orgasm is very beneficial.
The whole process of retaining sexual energy in order to support a spiritual awakening is covered in the 80 tantra lessons starting here:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/T1.html
The information is also available in the Tantra book by Yogani.
You may also find these lessons helpful:
Lesson 51: Strange gurglings
Lesson 133: Nectar
and this one:
Lesson T60 - Natural Vajroli and Whole Body Ecstasy
and also this page from my site:
Amrita: The divine nectar
Christi
Thanks for taking the time out to help Christi! 
So useful Christi. My god. In case one did ejaculate in order to manage excess energy (specifically dealing with a huge energy block around manipura which made breathing difficult for hours until arousal took place and moved the energy) — Is there a protocol for rebuilding that prana? Or is a lot of spiritual progress lost due to that.
Thank you!
In case one did ejaculate in order to manage excess energy … Is there a protocol for rebuilding that prana? Or is a lot of spiritual progress lost due to that.
Hi Chen,
Quite a lot of spiritual energy is lost through orgasm with ejaculation for men, or simply through orgasm for women. But, usually this can be replenished within a couple of days for most people. It does depend a bit on the person, and in extreme cases, it may take up to a week to fully recover the energy lost.
There is nothing special to do in order to recover the energy lost, other than regular spiritual practices. But this does mean that using orgasm for self-pacing reasons is not always a good idea. Generally, self-pacing practices combined with grounding practices such as walking, swimming etc. is suggested as the first thing to try. These methods can dissipate any excess energy fairly quickly, without the long recovery times involved with orgasm. Generally orgasm should only be used as a last resort for dealing with excess energy in the body.
Roger that, thank you. My core challenge was with instances where there are breathing problem. And the only thing that seems to help were doing kriya sets and deeply relaxing the body. I guess it’s a matter of releasing more and more of these blockages over time.
I’d lile to point out that Bhakti plays a huge role here (as it does for all our spiritual endeavours).
I, too, have experienced the distinct loss of spritual/mental energy resulting from orgasm, but I’ve noticed that recovery can be made very quickly if you set your intentions towards progress.
I used to have orgasms quite frequently when I was adjusting to tantra and felt the energy loss quite distinctly - I think I was subconsciously clinging to the sensation of orgasm.
These days I occasionally have unintentional orgasms, but recover much more quickly.
I have found that all spiritual issues can be solved through prayer/Samyama. If what you want is spritual progress, the universe will not get in your way.
An interesting anecdote:
My wife wife wanted me to ejaculate on her. Obviously this conflicted with my efforts in tantra, which she respects but does not understand. Having asked me several times, I knew that it was meaningful to her. I prayed for a solution, sincerely wishing to please my wife while also wanting to maintain my rate of purification.
When we next had sex, my inuition guided me to surprise her and do the deed. It was fun.
Around an hour later, I received shaktipat while walking in the woods. My crown opened and a flood of ecstasy poured down into me, - far more intense than my recent orgasm!
And with that, I figured the accounts had been balanced, perhaps I even received a boost to my spritual progress. It’s really all about intention.
You sais something at really made sense to me”master bating with lust” I agree when in that frame of mind there is limited benefit. I try to clear my mind thru meditation before starting and allow my all the time I may require. To you always complete your session or to do you edge ?
I find edging to have greater meditative awareness but completion offers greater pleasure
Respectfully I must disagree.
Speaking directly from personal kundalini experience, which occurred *(*it is an unending process) spontaneously without volition, meaning without any regimented practice, orgasm has nothing to do with the continuance of kundalini energisation, provided that we approach sexuality in mood and mode ‘embrace & release’, flowing without clinging.
The meanings we assign to kundalini are either imagined or borrowed from spiritual texts. During the actuality of the experience, we are most definitely not the doer. We are a humble receptor and if we be in surrender, in childlike trust, not only is everything enabled automatically but ‘inner communication’ with Divine Mother (kundalini) is always available.
Hi UnseekingSeeker,
Yes, that can be the case for some. When I wrote that: “Quite a lot of spiritual energy is lost through orgasm with ejaculation for men, or simply through orgasm for women.”, I was really talking about what happens for 99% of the population. As we progress on the path, the energetic (pranic) depletion that occurs through orgasm lessens, until it eventually disappears all together.
And yes, in that stage there is often complete surrender. ‘Inner communication’ with the Divine Mother (kundalini) is always available until even that is transcended, as it is based in duality. Then, kundalini is seen to not exist, as only the Self remains.
As we progress on the path, the energetic (pranic) depletion that occurs through orgasm lessens, until it eventually disappears all together.
This yogi’s truth at present. Stability and conductivity allows for “samadhi at will” in meditation and practices and ample daily opportunities to fall quiet, present openly, and place attention gently, on mantra, on sensation, on doing absolutely nothing else. Offering up, surrendering, seems to create a paradox of a void teeming with inner silence; all one does is observe and enjoy.
What I’m saying is there is no depletion of bliss magnetism whether or whether not we engage in sexuality or for that matter drink wine or not. Just as our breath continues, our heartbeat repeats, the magnetic hum is continuous and not dependent on anything else we do in the human experience.
This of course is the truth as it applies to me and the reason I’m sharing is to dispel false notions and feeling of guilt or imagined limitation or getting worried about a this or that practice we are oriented towards engaging in and results therefrom.
About Self, yes, in singularity bliss transforms as ineffable peace because there are no polarities in singularity. Also, in my case I have not yet assimilated the recognition fully, in as I self-assess it but I have been, seen and so known. So, going by scripture, I’m somewhere between Nirvikalpa and Sahaja state or let us say only Nirvikalpa state because Sahaja implies Nirvikalpa in permanence. I also hold the view that Sahaja is not the end of the journey.
For those who I know who claim to have attained the Sahaja state, maybe it is so and maybe not. I don’t judge but neither accept what people claim. But if it is so, their words and actions should be consistent with such a oneness state. What I also find as an anomaly for example, is unconditional all encompassing love (compassion) being left out of the awakening equation.
As for kundalini, as long as we are in occupation of this body-mind earth vessel, the kundalini would continue to make its presence known clearly until each cell is transmuted into living light, which is what we are as Self. So, it is always work in progress. Such are my views on this matter.
Hi UnseekingSeeker,
I would advise being careful about using scriptures to place yourself somewhere on a scale between unenlightened and enlightened. It is tempting to do, of course. However, in practice it is not as simple as that. I have known spiritual practitioners who were able to enter nirvikalpa samadhi every day and who were still very attached to those experiences, and to the idea of being someone who was “advanced” on the path. They did not realise just how attached they had become to these things. On the other hand I have known practitioners who were just beginning to experience samadhi states, but who were extremely humble.
Grace flows towards humility.
What I also find as an anomaly for example, is unconditional all encompassing love (compassion) being left out of the awakening equation.
Unconditional love is an important part of the enlightenment process. As Yogani writes:
…as our attention comes to reside naturally in the omnipresent, undulating blissful silence in all things, we become that ever-present harmony. We find our own self to be the essence of all things. This is the experience of unity, union, enlightenment. The world does not disappear. It becomes transparent. Boundaries become like veils, thinly covering the essence of life, which we have come to know as an expression of our own nature. Can we still act in the world? Yes, but our motives are different than before when we could only see ourself as separate. We now act in the interest of a broader self. In doing so, we may seem to become selfless. The truth is that we always are acting for our own self-interest. But our self has become universal, so our interest is for the whole of humanity, and for the whole of life.
We have described the third stage of enlightenment as “unity,” where we see all as an expression of the One that we have become. That One is pure bliss consciousness coexisting within all the (ecstatic) processes of nature. When it gets to this stage, we become a channel for an unending flow of divine love. We act for the good of all, expecting nothing in return, because we perceive all as an expression of our own self. In this stage, personal need is expanded to encompass universal need. This is enlightenment, divine love naturally manifesting through us, born of the union of pure bliss consciousness and divine ecstasy inside us.
Yes, yogani’s post extracts quoted by you resonate. There is an automatic increase of universal compassion as a higher octave of love. The reason I brought it up was to present that love is indeed an essential aspect, which some aspirants miss out on during a this or that practice system aimed at enhancing awareness or seeking out a siddhi.
Thank you for reminding me about self-appraisal of my consciousness coordinates. That was not the intention actually but these terms like Nirvikalpa and Sahaja and so forth are commonly employed so we tend to use them, although personally I would rather not … but then how to communicate? There are infinite intermediate coordinates actually.
In my case, there is no seeking, only being. I rest in vibrance of unknowingness and in doing so what needs to be known is known automatically. I say this as egolessly as I am able, as what it is for me, moment by moment.
On a lighter and more personal note, as we speak, last night I entered a trance meditational state of silence and stillness which lasted 4-5 hours without volition and the energy grid looping form over front and back dividing form vertically became a seamless, continuous whole, a band of cool magnetic heat, which has continued into the waking state, even as I am composing this post! Just sharing with all in a celebratory mood! Who knows what awaits?
God bless.
As more I “progress” on the path the more I judge others. At least I think that I can say if someone practise daily effective spiritual practises, or not. (at least I get quite often the impression that they are missing)This is everything than humble, thats the reason grace is staying away from me, I know.
But I really think that daily sitting practises like AYP recommended would be really helpful for u, UnseekingSeeker.
As long as we are embodied, and going forward, there is seeking (Bhakti). And I think the best use of Bhakti is to do effective spiritual practises like AYP has.
You can ignore me, if you have a daily practise or if you find it unappropriated.
But I have read some of your posts. And I always think: Practises are the key for u!! Start with 10 Mins “AYÄM”- Mantrameditation. The other 23 h 50 Mins you can be. This sitting practises are very helpful. They lead to effective service… the real deal of the path!!!
Thank you! That was straight from your heart. I really do appreciate it.
Perhaps what should be considered is that non-practice is also a practice. Ego practices, employing volition, seeking a result from a procedure engaged in, maybe chanting, breath work, a kriya yoga ritual and so on. Why, the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra itself has 112 meditations. I have gone through them and even written my insights on them, as I like to do but have not practiced any of them. Why? Because in my view, when we slide into thought rested silence in an aspect* (* Bhava ~ emotion, mood, intent, orientation) of trust and surrender, everything is enabled automatically. Such is as it has been for me consistently since 2017-18 or so, when I self-realised that the eternal cannot be found in the ephemeral external and so shifted thought, word and deed by relinquishing doership.
I have nothing for or against any practice. I only share the journey as it occurred in my case.
About mantras as you mention, the mantra too arises from within automatically. That is best in my view. The mantra then plays in the background all the time. We may say that just as we are being breathed by God, He chants the optimal mantra too! This is the truth.
In tradition, so many mantras are there in the scriptures. I’m a Hindu by birth, studied in a Christian school run by Irish missionaries but was drawn towards the Buddhist concept of emptiness. But I never went into Buddhism too as a practice and it has so many branches and sutras so we can get lost there.
We have signed up for earth life in a body-mind vessel, a vehicle we occupy for the moment. So accepting this, as it is, continuous contemplative consciousness correction as a mindfulness awareness continuum is my practice as a full time activity, breath by breath but simply remaining present in the void, so to speak, without seeking. Just animating attention in no-thingness.
The beej** (** root, seed) mantra Om, pronounced ohm plays in the background all the time, entwined with the inner sound current, which has always been present since as far long as I can remember. Sometimes it shape shifts as ‘Om Namoh Narayan’ or ‘Om Om Hari, Hari Hari Om, Om Hari, Hari Om’ or ‘Om Shiv-Shakti Namah’ or ‘Om Brahm’. I do not analyse this. Analysis is paralysis.
Before recognition of Self comes about, there is karma erasure by grace and also ego death. Even earlier and in continuance actually, we have the Divine Mother as kundalini bringing about bliss in permanence. These are truths mind knows nothing about. Yet all is done, is it not? Thus, employing a practice is alright perhaps if we first purify the heart by walking the talk in lived life and are guided by an adept or guru. Here I would rely on what yogani often seems to say on this site ~ The guru is in you or words to that effect. Well, that is true. But we must trust.
God bless.
Hi UnseekingSeeker,
You already have your this or that practice system, and you have shared some of the practices that you do in this forum.
One question of course could be “Is the system of practices that you are using sufficient to bring you all the way to liberation?” Clearly you still have some way to go on the spiritual journey, so whether it is sufficient, or not, is something that we can only know in time.
Another question that could be asked is “Would the system of this and that practices that you are using be sufficient to bring anyone in the world to a state of liberation?” That is a much bigger question and one that would be harder to answer because everyone is at a different stage on the path, each with a unique matrix of obstructions.
We would have to be in a position to answer the first question before we could look at the second. A set of this and that practices has to work for at least one person before we can start asking if it might work for anyone else.
I would say most definitely yes, non-doership by stepping out of our own way, so to speak is the pathless path I walk upon, which relinquishes control to God. Thereafter God is the doer and we are a humble receptor.
If we look at any practice, surrender in silence alone is the enabler. The practice only focuses mind on the procedure of practice (concentration) and then the procedure or object of practice itself has to be released (surrendered), becoming true meditation. In other words, the practice at best positions us for the leap but the leap is enabled by grace.
Another point to be considered is that say we chant, pray, do an esoteric yogic practice or whatever, it is a part time activity, maybe for a few minutes or even 2-3 hours. After that, we are back in the human experience where we get caught up in our habit routines. So if that be the case, we are not fully committed to truth or God-search, are we?
In my view, effortless cultivation of thought rested silence by resting in the void and softening of the heart centre, treading gently on Mother Earth, melding head with heart is effectively coming into alignment with pulsations of universal consciousness moment to moment, breath by breath. We become empty so that grace fills us. We do not seek the light, we become the light, which in fact we already are but know not.
I am certainly not saying this is something others must do. I am only presenting on how it is for me. Water flows down the hill through so many rivulets to join the river below; my path, if we can call it a path at all, is one of those rivulets, that’s all.
God bless.
I would definitely call it a path. I would not call it a “pathless path” as that could be misleading. It is good to simply state things as they are. If it is a path that leads to liberation, then it is not pathless.
I would say most definitely yes, non-doership by stepping out of our own way, so to speak is the pathless path I walk upon, which relinquishes control to God. Thereafter God is the doer and we are a humble receptor.
Don’t forget that “relinquishing control to God” is a doing. And of course ultimately there is no separation between Self and God, so if God is the doer, so are we. This is not to say that surrendering control to God is not a valuable spiritual practice to engage in on a path. It certainly can be for a spiritual practitioner when the time is right. And it can be a very powerful and effective practice. But it does require some degree of abiding inner silence to be able to do, so it is not a practice that can be used by everyone.
And it does not matter if people are engaged in spiritual practice only for a certain period of time every day. In fact, for people who are new to spiritual practice, this is a good thing. During spiritual practices we are developing new habits, habits that lead towards liberation. Even if we are only spending 20 minutes twice each day cultivating these new habits, this will still be beneficial. Spiritual practices are also purifying and there is only a certain amount of spiritual purification that one person can handle in one day. This is why the AYP practices are regulated so carefully in terms of duration. Outside of practice time it is important to be doing things to integrate the purification. Without this, things can soon go out of balance.
Gradually, over time, someone can expand their practice so that it is happening both on and off the mat, and it can be going on 24 hours a day. But that is a gradual process. Not something that someone could, or should, jump into on day one.
As for surrendering things into silence that can certainly be a useful spiritual practice. It forms the basis of Samyama practice which you can read about here. It is also a practice for people who have some degree of abiding inner silence present in the mind, so again, it is not suitable for everyone: