Hi Qspadone and Michael,
p.s.
That quote comes from here:
This is the full quote:
Yes, it is repetition of the mantra. But the kind of repetition we use in deep meditation is a faint idea, an impulse, and in its finer states is not repetition at all in the conventional sense. It is just a very subtle vibration deep in the mind, and then … transcendence… [Yogani]
So, it is the repetition that is a faint idea, rather than the mantra.
Hi qspadone,
So back to meditation with mantra after switching to breath meditation (and then passive awareness meditation) for a few days?
Whatever your routine is that is steady and stable, best to stick with it for reliable long term results. If we are having normal ups and downs during practice and in daily activity, it does not mean we have to immediately change our practice routine. We will know when to self-pace our practice over multiple sessions, not according to what is happening in every single session. Best to take a longer view…
The guru is in you.
PS: For a detailed discussion on the importance of steady long term practice, here is what the AYP Plus NotebookLM AI has to say:
Q: How important is long term practice with the same practice routine?
A: Long-term, consistent practice with the same routine is very important in the AYP system. This is because it allows for a stable foundation of purification and opening of the nervous system, which leads to the most reliable results.
Key aspects of the importance of long-term consistent practice:
- Building a stable routine is crucial for managing the powerful practices of AYP. The AYP system is designed to establish and maintain an effective daily practice with short morning and evening sessions. A stable routine also helps to ensure that practices are done correctly and consistently.
- Long-term practice is essential for experiencing the best results. It is the consistency of daily practice over time that purifies and opens the nervous system. This leads to the rise of abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss, and divine love.
- A consistent routine is necessary for developing the habit of practice, which is like “getting hungry at meal times”. This habit ensures that practice is maintained even when time is short, which is very important.
- Consistency provides a baseline for self-pacing. Self-pacing is essential for navigating the ups and downs of purification and opening. It enables practitioners to adjust their practice as needed to maintain a smooth and comfortable routine.
- Changes in routine should be deliberate and stabilized. When changes are made, they should be done with deliberation, and with the intent to stabilize the change in the routine. This helps to avoid overdoing or adding too many elements at once.
- The most important result from practice is the rise of abiding inner silence in everyday activity, which will come gradually with consistent practice. It is the long-term management of practice in relation to regular daily activity that makes the greatest difference in spiritual progress.
- Long-term structured practice leads to reliable results. It allows the practices to be “baked in” to the nervous system. This structured approach helps practitioners to avoid distractions and to stay on course.
- A consistent, long term practice provides a foundation to add more advanced practices gradually. New practices should be added one at a time to ensure the routine remains stable before expanding further. It can take six months or longer to stabilize each practice taken on, so there is no need to be in a hurry.
- A regular routine helps to ensure that progress is not interrupted by overdoing practices, which can lead to long recovery periods. It is better to have a moderate daily practice that can be maintained over the long term than to have a heavy practice that must be discontinued for long periods.
- Long-term practice allows for the integration of the benefits of yoga into daily life. This is achieved through an active engagement in daily life, which is important for stabilizing the results of the practices.
In summary, long-term, consistent practice with the same routine is a cornerstone of the AYP system. It is essential for establishing a stable foundation, experiencing the full benefits of practice, and making steady progress toward enlightenment.
PPS: And please do keep in mind that understanding the mechanics of practice and doing practice are two different things, and we can’t do both at the same time. 
Hi qspadone and Michael,
p.p.s.
This quote is from here:
The full quote is:
"In Patanjali’s yoga sutra’s it is a three stage process comprising the last three of the eight limbs of yoga:
- Concentration - attention on an object (dharana)
- Meditation - dissolving of the object (dhyana)
- Absorption - pure bliss consciousness with no object (samadhi)
All of these are included in our easy deep meditation procedure. First we pick up the mantra (1). We don’t try and keep it as a rock solid clear pronunciation – we just easily repeat it inside, letting it go how it will to less and less distinctiveness (2). At some point we will lose the mantra completely (3). Then we will be out again on some thoughts or feelings and pick it up again (1)." [Yogani]
Ok so a little update to say that I’ve finally figured out how deep meditation works. It’s surprisingly simple.
I know it works because I feel a little more at peace, despite the circumstances of my life (which haven’t changed). I will face whatever I need to face in life, and I know that everything will be alright.
I’m a little bit depressed and sad, but relaxed (and exhausted). I think I’m undergoing some heart chakra purification, amongst other things. I know it is not necessary to analyse too much, just go out and live what must be lived, and let inner silence guide my steps along the way.
I won’t add any other practice until I’ve stabilized deep meditation. I don’t know how long this’ll take, but I’m not in a rush.
Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread.
So, I’m currently working on stabilizing 7 minutes of Deep Meditation with the AYAM mantra, followed by as much rest as needed before getting up.
Just that seems to bring about some life changing benefits.
I’ve made the mistake too many times of charging ahead too fast, mixed with switching my practice around too often to be able to effectively assess its effects on my daily life.
A couple images that have come up to mind and that I find really helpful : I picture myself swimming in a very dense, opaque liquid (my matrix of obstructions, presumably). I can’t move around too fast, as the liquid proprieties prevents me from doing so. If I try to go too fast, I’ll encounter resistance (almost like a non-newtonian fluid). So, my only solution really is to go slowly until the liquid progressively becomes clearer and easier to move through.
Another useful one is about the gates that can be raised or lowered to control water flow on dams. At first, there can be a lot of debris and sediment being flushed out and the water flow will be obstructed. Anyway, I can picture how if one tries to open the gates too much, too quickly, things won’t go well. It has to be done progressively.
And lastly I’m simply fed up with the consequencs of those mistakes. It’s time to be wise in the practice and let things unfold at their own pace.
Hi qspadone,
Yes, giving the whole process a chance to work is a very good move. One way that you can tell if your spiritual practice is working is by how you feel during the day. Usually, if our practice is working, we will feel gradually more peaceful, more calm, more joyful and so on during the day. This may not be the case every single day, as people do have bad days, and even bad weeks, but it can often be the case over the long term, over months and years.
However, sometimes, when the practice is working, it will be causing inner purification to take place. This can throw stuff up in the subtle nervous system as blockages are cleared, resulting in strong emotions, powerful thoughts, and even physical symptoms that can be challenging. So, one possible way of knowing that the practice is working, is that this is taking place. If this does happen, it can go on for months and even years, depending on the unique matrix of obstructions of the practitioner.
No matter what is manifesting, it is a good sign that purification is taking place. All we need to do is to keep an eye on progress and self-pace downwards temporarily if anything uncomfortable is happening, and keep self-pacing downwards if necessary, whether that means 7 minutes of meditation, or 3, or none at all.
If you are at 7 minutes of meditation with the AYAM mantra, then you may want to consider switching to the breath as your meditation object and remaining there for at least six months. You may find more long-term stability. This is always available as an option. I know I have suggested this to you before, and others have, but reminders can always be helpful. In my own practice I switched to using the breath several times for self-pacing reasons and it always helped. I was able to gain greater peace and stillness.
Last year I recorded a video called: “Why can meditation appear to get more difficult after a few years”. That is here:
Thanks for your feedback.
Since stabilizing this level of practice, what used to create suffering (such as negative thought patterns and emotions) seem to gradually lost their grip on me and do not affect me so much anymore. They simply dissipate instead of remaining stuck.
In activity, I think I’m experiencing some kind of intermittent samadhi (stillness in action?), between periods of simply ‘resting’ in silence.
Let me explain: I repeatedly find myself finishing a given task, and thinking “Oh wow, I can’t believe how absorbed I was in this!”. And these are the very same tasks which used to be so dreadful! Something Yogani talked about comes to mind: we become whatever we put our attention onto.
In these moments, there is literally no resistance at all, but rather an indescribable peace of mind.
So, I have this very high pitched tinnitus going on pretty much constantly since I was 18. Some days I can’t hear it very much, while some other days it is there almost continuously. In meditation, I’ve noticed that the mantra tends to merge with it, making the inner sound of the mantra very high pitched. It doesn’t seem to make my meditations less effective.
After all, this isn’t so bad since tinnitus is all about having your attention on an inner sound, and I’ve visualized the mantra a lot in the past. It helps really favouring the sound rather than any image that comes up.
I’ve noticed that the more I am effortless with favouring the mantra, the more effective it is. But it still has to be the mantra in one way or another (AYAM currently). Also, I notice more and more that there are times where I should have returned to the mantra and I didn’t (for example when I become aware of sensations of my body: heartbeat, breath, …). So I’m working towards that as well.
Edit:
I’ll explain once again in my own words the procedure I believe is the right one: What I’m doing is: I close my eyes then start the inner sound of the mantra inside. From that moment on, it is like an automatic loop, with no gaps in-between repetitions. I don’t force the mantra, I simply put my attention on the sound of it, not trying to achieve anything with it. I’m just listening to it, at this point. And, whenever I notice that my attention is off it, I gently bring it back to it. When my attention is off the mantra, it’s generally because it has shifted to sensations in my body (heartbeat, breath, …). Sometimes though, it’s as if I’ve lost trace of where I was completely, emerging from some kind of “blank”. Then, I pick it up again, and do so until the time is up.
Laslty, I don’t think the mantra has yet refined to be a “sound vibration”, but more like a distant, faint whisper. In the past I thought it had refined as a vibration because I could feel tingles in my arms and legs as I was thinking the mantra, but now I’m not sure that this is where it’s supposed to be heading.
I’m not sure if I’m encouraging the merging of it with the tinnitus, or if I should make an effort to disassociate the two, however. I’m not really sure what this tinnitus is even about, I’ve heard many things about it. I did several hearing tests and my hearing is almost perfect. Doctors can’t find any cause for it.
Hi qspadone,
Yes, your meditation procedure is correct. Start the mantra off easily in the mind as a back-to-back repetition, and then let it go as it will, not forcing either a back-to-back repetition, or forcing any gaps between repetitiones. Not pushing for anything at all. If the mantra merges with an inner sound for some time, then that is what is happening. If the mantra refines to a subtle vibration for some time, then that is what is happening. If you notice that you are off the mantra, then just easily pick it up again at a level that is comfortable for you, either at the refined level that it was at before you lost it, or with a more clear pronunciation.
It seems that there are currently two directions that my meditation can take depending on how I start the mantra.
1st case : mantra merges with my tinnitus, is mostly a (very high pitched) continuous sound localized in the head (this is where I hear my tinnitus, like literally in my ears).
2nd case (feels more effortless) : mantra is more felt/heard in the body, is accompanied by bodily sensations and is not a continuous sound.
They also each seem to lead to drastically different experiences in the activity that follows, and I don’t know which is right, although I believe n°2 leads to more calm and awareness.
Hi qspadone,
So, we start the mantra off as a back-to-back silent repetition in the mind and then let it go as it will. What is “right” is whatever happens as we let it go as it will. We don’t get to determine what happens. If we did, then it would not be “letting it go as it will”.
If we started to give direction to how the meditation process evolves, then we would be micromanaging the process according to what we believe we should be experiencing. When people do this, it usually very quickly devolves into “chasing experiences”, which is a never-ending distraction that does not lead to liberation. It is not correct Deep Meditation practice.
If we simply let the mantra go as it will, experiences can be different every time we sit to meditate, and that is absolutely fine. The practice is not about getting certain experiences, or not getting certain experiences, it is about letting go of attachments and clinging. That happens gradually over time, through repeatedly favouring the mantra over anything else that is going on in the mind, including any ideas about what we think we should be experiencing.
I see.
Also, when I undergo ineffective meditation periods (because of my habit of regularly changing my interpretations of the procedure and micro-managing the practice), the automatic kriyas in daily activity are just insanely distracting, and I wonder if it’s damaging my body.
I think I may still have energy sensitivity due to centering my attention in my head for such extended periods of time. I haven’t done it for the better part of a year but the kriyas are still happening. And sometimes I feel like I do center my attention in my head when I meditate, which could possibly enhance the phenomenon of vacuum Yogani described for people who undergo premature crown openings.
Just a theory.
Effective DM helps ease the kriyas and energy flow in my body, I think.
I’m also wondering if the tinnitus/mantra merging could just be a sort of auditory hallucination that just sounds like the mantra, but really isn’t.
Hi qspadone,
Yoga practice should always be easy and effortless. It should also not be uncomfortable, or painful. If things are happening automatically that are making you wonder if you are causing damage to your body, then you should be self-pacing your practice downwards to a level where your practice feels easy, effortless and comfortable, and you have no concerns at all that you may be damaging your body.
Remember that self-pacing downwards can include switching to the breath as a meditation object if necessary, and then remaining with the breath as your object for at least 6-months. It does sound as if you would benefit greatly from doing this.
Hi qspadone,
p.s.
Just to answer this question, it isn’t actually an issue. If the mantra is refining to the level where it is becoming a continuous sound, and beginning to merge with an inner sound in the body, then you will be going inwards into silence in the mind. You would not be at the surface level of the mind, able to think a thought such as “is this actually the mantra, or something else?”. If you do find yourself out at the surface level of the mind, able to actually think a thought such as “is this the mantra, or something else?” then you would be off the mantra and into thoughts and would then favour the mantra AYAM over anything else going on in the mind, including any inner sounds that may be occuring.
Done. I started today. 20 minutes of breath meditation.
I’m just amazed at how much more intuitive it is for me to use breath as an object.
Thanks again for your precious guidance!
A little update:
It has been almost 48 hours since I stopped practices altogether, because of uncomfortable purification symptoms (strong emotions, automatic kriyas, energy sensations in different places of the body (especially in the tongue/jaw), sensations of insect crawling on limbs/tingles, hot flashes, etc.), even after switching to breath meditation.
I’ve pretty much spent the last year or so in overload. I am now determined to find a stable practice that works for me, starting with 5 minutes of breath meditation twice daily as advised in Lesson 367, and cutting back as needed whenever discomfort arises, but first I need to spend a consistent amount of time without any practices to find stability again.
I won’t resume practices until the answer to the question “Have I been stable over recent weeks?” is a clear “Yes.”. This probably means: little or none of the hot flashes, strong emotions, automatic kriyas, sensations of insects crawling on limbs/tingles, uncomfortable energy sensations in the body, etc.
I’ll also read again, very carefully, every forum answer Christi has posted in regards to my overload issues as well as any material he has referred me to (overload flowchart, AYP Lessons, …), to gain greater understanding in that matter and not repeat the same mistakes.
Hi qspadone,
Cutting back to zero, if you are still getting uncomfortable symptoms even with a few minutes of breathing meditation, is a wise thing to do. Your symptoms indicate that a lot of purification is going on in the background and this could continue for some time without you needing to engage in any practices.
“Being stable for the last few weeks” means that you have arrived at a place of stability where you have not experienced any uncomfortable symptoms over the last few weeks. That would include disturbing powerful emotions, feeling irritable, pain in the body, and so on.
How long it takes to become stable will depend a lot on the effectiveness of the grounding practices you use. People can become stable fairly quickly if their grounding practices are effective. This means within a few weeks, or months of a period of excessive overdoing.
When you do feel that you are stable again, then you could start testing, to see if you are ready to resume practices. This could mean engaging in just a few minutes of breathing meditation and then seeing how this affects your system. If you are still experiencing uncomfortable symptoms from that, then cutting back to zero again for some time (weeks or months) would be safest.