Love and Attachment

A reply of Tristan’s reminded me of something I’ve been wondering about lately, but it’s a different enough question I thought I’d start a new thread. The reply, on attachment, is here: Amrita question - #48 by Christi

The question this raises for me is what feels like a contradiction between love and non-attachment. I understand that “divine love” of the sort cultivated by yoga practices is loving everything for no reason. I feel like that quality has increased in me to a degree over the decades of AYP practice. Besides close friends and family, I feel sometimes a kind of love toward many other people and things, sometimes seemingly without much reason. I also feel less “attached” in the sense that I have a degree of witnessing/inner silence that makes me somewhat less easily bothered by external events, though certainly not completely impervious to negative feelings related to significant challenges, tragedies, etc.

I guess this is probably one of those many divine paradoxes: Yogani said something like “We will be ready to leave this world when we have learned to love it unconditionally.” There is also the phrase, “If you love something, let it go,” though I don’t know if that’s really the same (maybe that’s more about wanting what’s best for someone/something rather than what’s best for oneself).

At the same time, there are various religious sayings about how having more to lose in this life makes it harder to attain liberation: Jesus says it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I am not able to find it right now, but I recall a Buddhist saying something like “A wife and child are more dangerous than a hungry tiger.” The idea being that having a wife and child will attach you to this world in a way more dangerous to your spiritual growth than even being killed by a wild animal (and, indeed, the Buddha did leave his wife and child, though they eventually became disciples, I think).

The famous boxing coach Cus D’Amato said, “I believe nature’s a lot smarter than anyone thinks. During the course of a man’s life he develops a lot of pleasures and people he cares about. Then nature takes them away one by one. It’s her way of preparing you for death.” This sounds quite right to me. It seems easier to be at peace with dying when e.g., one’s body is frail and weak and all one’s friends have predeceased you than e.g., in the prime of life.

In particular, I find becoming a father that my child is the only person I seemingly love even more than myself. I definitely think I would jump in front of a bullet to protect her. By the same token, the thought of her dying is the worst imaginable thought for me, probably even worse than dying myself. The love I feel for her is stronger than any other love I feel, and I am at the same time most attached to her in the sense that I could least bear to lose her.

Yogani did say that the love of a parent for a child is inherently somewhat divine. Maybe divine love and yoga means extending that kind of love to the whole world? But if I loved the whole world as much as my child, it would seem only exponentially more difficult not to be attached to it! Tristan has said before that, even as we come to love everyone, it is still natural that we will have a special relationship with family members. Since I’m not advanced enough to love everyone for no reason, perhaps I simply don’t understand what that is like.

The best way I can think to understand this seeming paradox is that, the more one loves everything in the world, including everything that happens, regardless of whether others would label those happenings “good” or “bad,” one does not feel attached to that world because one is already perfectly fulfilled and does not need anything from the world. Moreover, dying and leaving this world would just be one more “happening” in the world, so it would not make sense to judge that as “bad” if one truly loves the world as it is. (And if one truly drops the notion of “me,” and “mine,” I suppose it won’t make sense to worry about losing “my body” or even “my daughter”–but the special connection between us is part of what I love, so if that were seen to be illusory, would I love her less?)

That said, as I continue on my spiritual practice, I feel less “attached” in the sense that the witness seems more “unmovable” or less bothered by external affairs, I don’t feel like this makes it any easier to bear the idea of a terrible loss, such as that of a child. Maybe it would be in the sense it might leave less of a lasting emotional scar than if I had never practiced yoga, but at the same time the greater capacity to love seems to make the idea of loss even worse, and the more one has (let us say I had many children and were wealthy and in better health, etc… ) the more difficult it would feel to not be “attached” to this life (whereas I can definitely see feeling less “attached” in the way Cus D’Amato describes, but maybe that is more of the usual life cycle than the path to true, final liberation?). Thanks for any thoughts.

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Casey, You’ve covered a lot of fascinating territory here. I wanted to share some of my reactions.

When you feel “loving everything for no reason… less attached” this all sounds like a very positive development. Your choice of “for no reason” caught my attention. I find this type of divine love as having a deep reason, it’s just not quid pro quo.

Your next comments focused on loving unconditionally and not being attached. The idea a wife and child are more dangerous than a hungry tiger because they “attach” you to this world didn’t resonate. Although I can relate to the movement towards non attachment, it seems to me this embodied life is deeply connected with these interpersonal attachments. That is, the capacity for unconditional love comes from being fully engaged in this world. I fully understand suffering can come from unhealthy attachments to people but the sterile way in which some Buddhist teachings and other non dualist teachings point seems harsh to me. I’m reminded of the expression “Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all”

It’s ironic I have recently become empty nested and feel very complex emotions surrounding letting go. Ultimately I embrace the lyric from 38 special “hold on loosely but don’t let go”

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Hi Interpaul,

Yes, it seems correct to me that we can’t run from engagement with life as a way to escape attachment. The extreme example would be suicide. When someone commits suicide we sometimes say “He thought he had nothing left to live for.” Religious leaders do not endorse suicide both because it often harms others and also because it cannot really be said to be a form of “liberation” if you have to escape from life by destroying your body. (And for religions that believe in reincarnation, the thought would be, it would only cause you to reincarnate with all the tendencies/karmas that drove you to self-harm still present, perhaps worse). It seems that the truly liberated/enlightened individual, conversely, should be able to remain unattached to worldly things even if surrounded by loving family, friends, and material riches.

At the same time, it is clear many religious teachers, such as Buddha and Jesus have exhorted followers to leave the world behind, or at least renounce many of their attachments to the material world. Maybe it is simply an issue of different kinds of challenge? For those who have a lot mentally pleasing things in this life, the challenge is to love them without becoming attached. For those who try to reduce distractions by becoming e.g., a monk, saddhu, renunciate, disciple of a teacher, etc. then they may gain some advantages in terms of avoiding distractions and time/energy to devote to spiritual pursuits, but they must also learn to engage with the world without attachment or they are also not truly liberated?

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Hi Casey and Interpaul,

What happens in my experience, is that there are a number of processes involved. Firstly, as we progress on the path, there is a gradual falling away of attachments to things. We start to see clearly that attachments lead to suffering and as that is seen, they naturally fall away. And the more our attachments fall away, the more space there is for love. This love does not require anything in return, so is unconditional. It is simply a loving presence that is always there. There can be a time delay in this process, so it is not always the case that as attachments fall away, they are immediately replaced by feelings of unconditional love. There can be a fairly long period where attachments start to naturally fall away and there is the experience of being detached, being less concerned about things, being more peaceful, but without the experience of unconditional love. Then only very gradually do we begin to notice love and compassion for all things coming in to fill the void. This is why we often see teachers, especially in the Bhuddhist traditions, or Advaita traditions, that seem to be very detached from the world, and very peaceful, but they do not have that loving presence, and rarely, if ever, speak of unconditional love based on their direct experience.

Then there is another aspect to the journey where we increasingly start to identify with pure awareness, and not with the physical, or subtle body, or objects of the mind, or objects of the senses. And the more we see ourselves as pure awareness, the more we see others as pure awareness as well. And we come to see ourselves as that which is never touched by birth and death, and we see others in that way too. So fear of death becomes a thing of the past, because we see directly that there is no such thing as death.

So, it is possible to live in way where we are not attached to anything at all, love everything and everyone unconditionally, are not concerned at all by death, and know that we never lose anyone we love, and that we will never die. This is the state called liberation, or freedom from suffering, and it arises from simply seeing everything as it truly is. All boundaries fall away and we know that we are not separate from anyone else, and could never be.

And still the dance of life will go on. There will still people saying “This is your wife”, or “This is your daughter”, or “This is your car”, or “This is your house”. And you will play the game, out of compassion and love, but you will always know that it is a game.

And for religions that believe in reincarnation, the thought would be, it would only cause you to reincarnate with all the tendencies/karmas that drove you to self-harm still present, perhaps worse

And as for suicide, yes, it is an act of harm based on aversion to this life, and as with every act based on harm and aversion, there will be karmic repercussions which will need to be dealt with later before liberation can be experienced.

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Isn’t it nice that the things are always exactly as they should be… with all its imperfections and paradoxes..

Isn’t it nice that we can trust that?

And how much independent and instant relief is found in that trust…

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Hello to all

i find this topic very very interesting

Casey, there is a saying that Swami Sivananda mentions, living on the razor edge, it gets stronger when you notice the fragility of life, loss is always around the corner and noticing the duality of having everything yet having nothing at the same time….which can be experienced as an existential crisis where you have feelings of fear and all the questions you raised above of attachment and non attachment

That remind me also of Nisargadatta quote : wisdom says i am nothing , love says i am everything, between the two my life flows

which brings us to unconditional love. Vedanta teachers dont talk about it… personally i dont believe in it, we love someone or something for a reason like if he or she is good to us etc, off course i dislike people and things.Nevertheless one will still help random others if the opportunity appears and one can do something to make things better, so that is love

Reincarnation implies a permanent identity that is reborn, but there is none…what returns is not a person but a collection of past tendencies

as for death,it still implies the presence of a real entity….we loose the apperance of a so called person , but the appearance is not an essence, there is only memories and habits

as for suicide , there is a saying in Arabic” the one who gets born , gets trapped”…but that does not mean that suicide is the solution

Yet sometimes i wonder if one has an incurable disease, what is the point of living without dignity?

my 2 cents

Maha

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Perhaps I can say something on unconditional love. I work at the airport and every morning I walk through the busy airport concourse on my way to the office. People meeting and greeting, strangers arriving, strangers checking in and the more familiar faces of numerous employees. The concourse is a large open space. I feel a flow of love/radiance covering this space. I look people in the eye, smile joyfully and greet them. Love flows between us, strangers. They beam back. I am not expecting anything from them. They don’t know me. They are not expecting anything from me. We are just sharing a moment that brings a spontaneous smile. This, perhaps, is unconditional love?

Sey :pray:

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To me, unconditional love means ‘being’ with someone, and accepting them for who they are, and not trying to change (manipulate) them into something we would prefer them to be.
Sometimes that involves embracing them, sharing a smile or a kind gesture, sometimes it can mean keeping them at arms length, or staying away altogether for the foreseeable future. All without wanting anything from them at all, for the benefit of all beings.

This is as close as I can get into words what I believe unconditional love to be. :folded_hands:

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