Lost

[qspadone]

Hi,

First and foremost, I have to let you know that I am now heavily energetically overloaded. I have now been sick for almost a week: blocked ears, cough, generalized weakness, throat pain. There’s a chance that I might have been energetically overloading ever since I joined AYP, by the way. The only thing right now which is keeping me grounded with immediate results is a continuous, gentle clenching of the abdominal muscles as I go through my day. Right now, if I stop the gentle clenching of my abdominal muscles, energy rushes up my head, and automatic kriyas, if I let them happen, are simply continuous. And if I don’t let them happen, I’m soon bathed in vibrations and all of my attention is drawn within.

To be honest, I’ve kept running my own experiments ever since asking for advice here on this forum sometime last year, sometimes doing aggressive energy work for 8 hrs+ a day, up until recently, as well as circling through every possible interpretation of the deep meditation instructions (again and again), changing my practice around every other day, if not every single day.

Note that I have also tried to let go of anything spiritual (practice, thoughts, study, etc.) for a few days, and I went for walks etc. It was very unsettling: I was going through absolute emotional rollercoasters, from total happiness, to terror, and then sobbing in tears, all within a few minutes. I also had a lot of traumatic memories resurfacing. It was all very uncomfortable. I don’t know why I did not continue on that path, but I didn’t.

I might have misinterpreted the word “vibration” when talking about mantra refinement, because I then looked for a specific vibration in the body during meditation, leading to sensations of pleasure and complete overwhelm. I also did not know whether I was supposed to passively listen to the mantra or actively say it, constantly switching the two. I am somehow able to generate pretty much everywhere at once in my body a vibration (sometimes accompanied by pleasurable sensations) without intoning any inner sound, and I did that for 8 hrs+ a day recently for several days. The fact that I might have been overloading from the very beginning of starting AYP might have participated in my sheer inability to experientially understand the right way to do deep meditation (flawed feedback loop kind of thing).

I also did ujjayi breathing for long hours to try to calm myself down and ground myself. I’m not sure what caused what, but this is where I am right now, and what has been done, has been done.

I tried recently to spend several days in a row without any sitting practices, with this in mind:

If structured sitting by the clock with the passive awareness technique is still causing too much purification and discomfort, then you can step back from the sittings altogether, and simply notice what is impacting your awareness during daily activity, and gradually learn to allow it to go as it will without excessive judgment or attachment. This is more in the realm of self-inquiry, where there is no intention to do anything with mind or awareness, except noticing impressions as they occur and allowing life to proceed according to its own flow. In that, we can come to know that all is happening as it should. This is the least proactive of all the styles of meditation and, in fact, is not a structured form of meditation at all. But it is a practice, or a way of looking at the world that can be cultivated with beneficial results over time.

I thought it was working, but then after a while I had to stop because I was starting to have doubts about where it was taking me.

I find myself every day now looking for a fix, a solution to move forward. I’ve tried some of Jim’s front channel block techniques. I don’t know about that, honestly.

I have really gloomy thoughts, sometimes so caught up in inner experiences and unable to live like I would want to live, that I just think it would be best to end it all once and for all. But then I’m thinking that I’m better off finding a solution now in this lifetime as I would transfer this karma into the next life, and so on.

I am noticing more and more how my practices have a direct impact on those around me, complaining about sore knees, sore throat, etc. I can literally notice their state of consciousness changing in synchronicity with how I switch my practice around. This is a real motivator to find a solution, because I really don’t want to take anyone else down with me.

This is where I am.

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Hi Qspadone,

Having an ear infection and sore throat is an indication that you need to go to the doctor. This is a medical issue, not a symptom of energetic overload. So, best to get checked out and follow the advice given, including taking any prescribed medication. Ear infections can become serious if not properly treated.

With regards to your practice, it does sound as if you are not managing to self-pace and ground yourself at all. Practicing ujjayi pranayama continuously is not recommended. It is a powerfully form of pranayama that can be used under certain circumstances but not when someone is experiencing energetic overload and needs to self-pace. The same is the case with uddiyana bandha (contracting the lower abdominal muscles). That is a powerful practice that can be used under certain circumstances, but not when someone is experiencing symptoms of energetic overload.

Automatic bodily movements, or kriyas, are a natural part of the purification process and it is fine to allow them to happen. They are caused by blockages being released in the subtle nervous system. When all these blockages are released, the automatic movements will stop.

My advice would be to take at least three months off of all spiritual practices. Just chill out and give your system a break. No meditation, no ujjayi pranayama, no uddiyana bandha, no asana, no reading spiritual books. Just let every thing settle down and go for a long walk every day. Even if you experience powerful emotions during this time, that is fine. It is to be expected due to all the excessive practice you have done in the past. Just cry when you need to cry, laugh when you need to laugh. If you experience doubt, just experience it without acting on in. If fear arises, that is fine, you can allow it to arise without needing to act on it.

After three months you can then re-evaluate where you are and see how you are feeling. I would suggest not going back to using the AYP Deep Meditation practice. It sounds as if you are not able to follow the instructions for that practice. For example, there is nothing in the instructions that says that you should start looking for a vibration in the body and then coming back to that with your attention whenever you are off it. Doing that is dangerous and is way off the technique. There is also nothing that says you should stop repeating the mantra and start listening for it. The mantra can become automatic in the mind, but that is something that happens without the practitioner doing anything deliberately. If people were to stop repeating the mantra and start listening for it, then they could hear anything that is happening in the subtle nervous system. And then they would be favouring anything with their attention, which would not be safe.

So, I would suggest that when you are ready to begin practices again, use the breath as a meditation object. It is much harder to make mistakes when using the breath.

Whatever you do, do not be spending eight hours a day doing energetic practices. That is extremely dangerous! Simply follow the instructions given in the lessons, starting with lesson 10 and using the breath instead of the mantra as your meditation object.

Wishing you all the best!

[alain (alain clement)]

Hi qspadone,
I feel for you, this a dire situation, not unique, lot’s of people come to AYP with overload problems. Eventually it goes away, So hang in there you don’t need to end your life over that, like you said it would just repeat itself in a karmik way.
What you must do is cease all spiritual practices until the energy levels go back to normal levels. So do nothing except grounding activities.

Best of luck

Ho yah! I just saw Tristan’ s post, he’s giving you the best advice.

[qspadone]

Thanks again for the feedback. It helps.

I didn’t realize how risky it was to focus on inner energetic vibrations. In hindsight, this may be the most damaging thing I’ve done. I wish I had brought it up here much earlier. Truth is, I’ve been doing this ever since I returned to AYP a year or two ago.

I posted earlier in another thread that I am actually still cultivating inner silence, and that this helps me navigate overload far more effectively than stopping all practices altogether. After all, Yogani says in Lesson 69 that if stability can be brought back through our practices, this is where we should look first—before turning to additional grounding methods.

At some point I imagine people here might stop reading my posts—they’re probably repetitive by now, and I may come across as stubborn or entitled.

Still, I’m glad I’ve shared honestly about the spiritual practices I’ve done, to realize what doesn’t fully align with AYP. It’s a shame that I’ve struggled so much to understand AYP Deep Meditation—though I think I finally do now (LOL).

I’m still hoping to one day reach the destination of yoga: the union of bliss and ecstasy. And I carry a deep regret for the damage I’ve done to others (and self) by oveloading my nervous system through self-directed, energetic experimentation.

May this thread serve others who, like me, might feel inclined to run their own experiments—whether out of fear or curiosity.

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

@qspadone

I posted earlier in another thread that I am actually still cultivating inner silence, and that this helps me navigate overload far more effectively than stopping all practices altogether. After all, Yogani says in Lesson 69 that if stability can be brought back through our practices, this is where we should look first—before turning to additional grounding methods.

Hi Qspadone,

Just to clarify, lesson 69 does not say that at all. It does say that if someone has a meditation practice and they are experiencing uncomfortable energetic symptoms then they could try introducing some light Spinal Breathing Pranayama to see if this rectifies the issue. This can work if there is an imbalance in the subtle nervous system between the higher and lower centres. It can also work if there is a side channel imbalance as it can help to bring everything into the central channel.

However this is not the same as saying that everyone should always try to solve issues related to energetic overload by increasing spiritual practices. The general advice given, is to reduce spiritual practices, and keep reducing them, until balance is found. Start by taking off the last practice added, and then continue to the one before, and the one before that, and so on, until a place of stability is reached.

And at the same time, increase grounding practices. And keep increasing them until stability is reached. It is important to do this for as long as it takes. In some cases where people have become very unstable due to abusing their system through practising incorrectly, or through taking drugs or alcohol, or through intense energetic practices, or excessive tantric sexual practices, this can take years.

This is from lesson 69:

First off, if you have not already, it is suggested you begin a light session of spinal breathing before meditation, only five or ten minutes. See if that brings some balance. See if you can find a platform of practice with only pranayama and meditation that is smooth. Don’t do any mulabandha or sambhavi yet. Make sure you take plenty of rest coming out of meditation. It is suggested you suspend the other things you are doing for the time being, as they may be exacerbating the kundalini energies. If you are heavy into bhakti, having intense spiritual emotions, you should consider tempering that also. That means lightening up a bit for the sake of building a stable, effective spiritual practice. Bhakti is great until we hit a wall. Then it can become problematic. It can surely test us.

After all that, if you don’t notice an inner balancing, consider backing off on your meditation time a bit for a while, keeping the spinal breathing at the same level, unless the spinal breathing adds instability. It shouldn’t, but anything is possible. See if you can find a routine with just pranayama and meditation where you come out into your daily activity feeling smooth, with less intensity in the symptoms you described. From that stable platform, you can begin to add things on, step by step. [Yogani] [Bold added]

[qspadone]

Hi Christi,

I’m making another attempt to stop all spiritual practices (for three months, as suggested), but I find myself wondering—how do I know I’ve actually stopped?

Here’s what I’m consciously stopping doing :

• Constant breath awareness
• Ujjayi breathing throughout the day
• Focusing on inner energies and vibrations
• Constant abdominal tensing
• Recurring thoughts about spirituality or God

Even after letting go of all of this, and making a clear decision to stop anything “spiritual,” I’m not sure what normal feels like anymore.

For example, is it normal for people to talk to themselves in their heads? Do enlightened people do that? Or are they more just “listening” to thoughts as they arise rather than actively engaging in inner dialogue? I ask because I have worldly responsibilities to fulfill, and I need to think about what I’m doing—when, how, why, etc.

Part of me always thought that with enough inner silence, daily life would start to flow more automatically, without so much mental processing. But now that I’ve stopped everything, I’m not sure how to approach thought. I still find myself trying to “fully let go” during activity, and this sometimes triggers strong jitteriness in my legs or kriyas that can last the whole day unless I consciously step in and center myself.

Should I be stopping these movements when they arise in activity? I notice I’m able to stop them if I choose to.

Thank you for reading. Any guidance would be deeply appreciated.

Respectfully

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

@qspadone

For example, is it normal for people to talk to themselves in their heads? Do enlightened people do that? Or are they more just “listening” to thoughts as they arise rather than actively engaging in inner dialogue? I ask because I have worldly responsibilities to fulfill, and I need to think about what I’m doing—when, how, why, etc.

Hi qspadone,

All of that sounds very good. And yes, it is perfectly normal for people to talk to themselves in their heads. It is called “thinking”. It is fine to do that, and as you say, you need to in order to get your work done. As we progress on the path our experience of our self gradually changes, so that we find we are observing thoughts arise and pass away, rather than thinking we are talking to ourselves. After all, that would imply two people being in there, right?

But, I would not concern yourself with that at all right now. That is for further down the road, and after you have found stability in your life.

I still find myself trying to “fully let go” during activity, and this sometimes triggers strong jitteriness in my legs or kriyas that can last the whole day unless I consciously step in and center myself.

Fully letting go is a spiritual practice, so best to leave that one out completely if you can. If kriyas (automatic bodily movements) are happening it is fine to allow them to happen. There is no need to suppress them. If they get in the way of activity you need to do, then you can choose not to let them happen, as you say.

It is always wise to self-pace earlier rather than later, when difficult symptoms arise. If we continue with practices then the practices can become automatic in the mind, and then if we start to self-pace later, we can find that fully letting go, or constantly remembering the divine, is happening automatically in the mind. If this is happening then self-pacing becomes much more difficult and the whole process can become more drawn out and more complex.

[qspadone]

Dear AYP community,

I’m reaching out because I feel completely lost. Every day feels like a blur of confusion and emotional turmoil. I keep wishing I could go back to a time before all this intensity—because the present feels almost unbearable.

The only relief I used to get came from the self-directed practices I’ve described above, and others I’ve tried since starting AYP. But even that’s confusing. When I stop, the distress deepens. But when I continue, I worry I might be making things worse. Honestly, I don’t even know if I’ve fully stopped or not. It’s like I’m constantly treading water, unsure where I’m headed—or even where I should be going.

Please help me—I feel like I’m nearing a breaking point.

One of the biggest questions I’m facing is: should I try to direct my thinking at all during the day? If I don’t, it feels like I just sink deeper into mental chaos. But trying to “do something” with my mind also feels forced. Is there a middle ground?

On the physical side, automatic kriyas have been unsettling. What I mean here is that the only way out of all spiritual practice seems to be through allowing the body to move however it wants to move. It manifests as ongoing jittery feet, legs, tongue movements, etc. I’ve started fearing that I might be unconsciously encouraging some of them, and this has left me feeling uneasy and unsure of how to relate to what’s happening.

One specific issue I’m really struggling with is my jaw. I’ve developed a kind of fear or obsession around its positioning during the day, to the point where I can spend hours overly aware of it. This has sometimes led me to try new practices in hopes of “solving” the problem, but I’m starting to wonder if I’m just feeding the issue. Is this kind of persistent awareness harmful?

On top of all this, I’ve realized I don’t even understand what grounding is. People talk about it often, but I don’t know what it actually feels like. Could someone help describe what being grounded feels like? Do you still feel energy and tingles in the body? What does your body feel like when you’re grounded—stable? Calm? Heavy? Do you feel like an extension of the earth? I’ve even considered repeating “ground, ground, ground” in my head throughout the day just to hold on to something.

Every decision—big or small—feels like it triggers waves of tension and anxiety. Even something like deciding what to eat for dinner can become overwhelming.

I’ve tried to approach this with sincerity, and I’m still trying. But I truly don’t know what to do anymore. Is it possible that I’m not overloading and that I would actually benefit from continuing my practice instead of scaling back?

I just want some clarity. Some direction. Maybe even a sense of what “normal” might feel like again. I want to be able to take a peaceful walk with a quiet mind—but right now, that feels out of reach.

If you’ve been through something like this—or have any insight at all—I’d really appreciate your thoughts.

With gratitude

[qspadone]

@Christi

For example, there is nothing in the instructions that says that you should start looking for a vibration in the body and then coming back to that with your attention whenever you are off it. Doing that is dangerous and is way off the technique.

I’ve been told many times that the mantra can refine into a subtle sound vibration yet I am now being told not to favor a vibration in my body?

Did I misunderstand that? Is the vibration that the mantra can refine into a vibration that is felt in the mind alone and not in the body?

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

@qspadone

Did I misunderstand that? Is the vibration that the mantra can refine into a vibration that is felt in the mind alone and not in the body?

Hi Qspadone,

Yes, it is true that the mantra can refine to the level where it becomes a subtle vibration. If that happens then we simply continue to favour the mantra as that subtle vibration. It is a normal continuation of our practice and we know it when it happens.

However, that is very different from looking for a subtle vibration in the body and favouring that with our attention. That would be dangerous as there are many possible subtle vibrations in the body and mind and not all are safe to bring our attention to repeatedly.

As for where the vibration of the mantra is as it refines to the level of a subtle vibration, that is something that we know, as the process unfolds. The location of the mantra can change as it refines.

In your case though, I would strongly recommend not practicing mantra meditation at all. Right now I would suggest not practicing at all for at least three months. If you do decide to take up meditation practice again after three months then use the breath as the object of meditation.

[yogani]

Hi Qspadone,

It would be good if you could let your attention be on something besides yourself. Any kind of responsibility or activity, a person to care for, a job, a living space or work space, even a pet. Anything but your symptoms.

It has long been known that focusing on energy symptoms exacerbates them. Yet you keep doing it. Passive awareness is just the opposite, allowing without attaching. But forget about that. It is not for you. None of the practices here are for you. To get through this you will have to pursue other interests that have nothing to do with your symptoms, or “spiritual practices.” A redirection of attention into any worthwhile activity is what you need. Caring for a kitten would be much better for you than what you have been doing. Why? Because it would not be about your symptoms.

So the suggestion is to forget about all this spiritual mumbo jumbo, and make your life about doing something for others. If you can’t do that, then it is suggested to get professional counseling help. AYP cannot provide that. You have exhausted everything AYP has to offer, and it has only exhausted you. Time to move on into other activities. Other than to advise you to move on, there is little else we can do for you here.

New doors will surely open for you once you give up your obsession with your symptoms and put your attention on more fruitful activities. Many of us have been through periods similar to yours, though perhaps not as extreme. The way out is to keep walking beyond an obsession with symptoms, and into a better life that is not only about us. It is there for you if you are willing to move forward. I recommend you forget about AYP.

All the best!