John Wilder and spiritual progress

05. Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
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Thnak u so much for your answers.

Yes, the depression was before I started practises…it was getting worser with the rise of age and responsibility…I started practising with age of 18, so it’s hard to say.

I take antidepressiva, which helped me a lot and has made things a lot easier. I am going in to a clinic where we will adjust the medical situation soon again.

Because I have reacted positively to antidepressiva and all sorts I think it’s not primary a spiritual overload. But I have noticed when I am using more practises like cosmic samyama or breath retention my handle with depression gets worse.

So, we could say with perfect self pacing I am so balanced I can make it over years with practises with a light depression in daily life. Without good self pacing there its gets very hard and I have harder depression. But there would be always depression in some form.

But on the other hand there was always phases in my life. Means, I have sometimes over weeks so good phases I thought I would be healed, and then there was much worser phases. (Which is absolutele normal for people with more or less chronic depression). Even, I didn’t changed anything in practise.

And what I have to say I am feeling the best when a certain practise routine, moderate, been done over months…the last time I have done the 5mins SBPn 10 Mins DM and 5 Mins Samyama over months, then there came a phase of this 5-6 Weeks where I felt fantastic…and then I thought I could do some experiments and adding cosmic samyama. Then it was gradually worser. After two weeks with cosmic samyama I have stoped it. Now it is three or four weeks worse with this above mentioned practise time amd without cosmic samyama. It seems to get a little bit better, now. Even I suffer a lot.

So, Karma Yoga would be practise in Ashrams, wouldn’t it?

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Hello th1996

No, karma yoga does not have to be in an ashram especially for your overloads,stay away from ashrams

You can volunteer in many things…animal shelters…community centers…elderly houses…

Keep it a none spiritual location

And stop practices

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64

Thank u for your answer. I think this is a wonderful idea to do it none spiritual.

And the plan to stop practises is good too…but I am not able to stop it (its a strong addiction). So, sorry for bothering you a guys but I think I am a helpless case.

I compensate a lot spiritually…I have never got a girlfriend, no sexual experiences, no romantic, less social life…and in practises I find a relief from the burden and a kind of freedome. It´s really like alcohol addiction or such things. (it´s better to be addicted to practise than to alcohol or drugs but it is not nice also)
So, thank you for your effort…but it´s hopeless I think…I can only hope that over months with this amount of practise time there is coming balancing like it happened before.

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Hi th1996, giving up on yourself is not the answer. In fact, it is never the answer.

If you feel like your spiritual practice is causing the discomfort, then the responsibile thing is do is to pace it downward (for example, dropping the samyama, which can be a powerful practice).

There is an aspect of samyama that already happens in deep meditation, when you go back to the mantra from when you’re lost in thought. So the samyama-effect is also cultivated through meditation alone.

Leaving uncomfortable feelings behind through meditation is not true spirituality. To genuinely progress and grow we need to be flexible and see the part of us that we’re unwilling to see.

Whether you are actually experiencing overload symptoms or no, is your call in the end. It’s called self-pacing and nobody can do it for you. But having the flexibility to scale back when needed is super important. Why is there there such a rush to get enlightened in the first place?

Listen to Yogani and Tristan.

All the best

:folded_hands:

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Thank u for your answer!

Why the rush to enlightenment? It´s because some people are claiming its the end of suffering. So, I have always suffered a lot in my life, even before starting spiritual practises. So, the biggest reason I want to be enlighten is to have freedome of suffering.

You know, I am the best example of someone who is identified with everything, and how this identification leads to suffering. Long before knowing whats happening. So, my biggest wish is to get out of it (identification).

The paradox is that the fact that I startet to early the practises is leading to more identification. Saying to me stop practising is like saying to an alcohol addicted person stop drinking. In the mind I get it but I am not able to do it in reality. During practise time It´s the only time I am free of suffering…so, eventually the wish to be free just made things much worse.

But on the other hand I feel a little more stable since a view days. So, to be honest I don´t think it´s an overload. I just have depression. Because there are so many people who has the same symptoms (depression) like me who never ever tried any spiritual practise.

So, buttom line, since there are people who suffer the same symptoms then me, and my addiction is too strong and I feel better the last days, I will stay at this practise level.

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I am stable again… but I have some questions in mind.

Is amrita necessary for enlightenment? When yes, how can this be that something which is entirely depentand on the body is a important aspect of enlightenment?

Enlightenment is the gradually realisation of our eternal self, the cultivating and emerging of ecstatic bliss. Yogani says that ecstasy is primary in the body. But the body will pass. Enlightenment not. So, the question rises: Is the real/true nature of life really ecstatic bliss, and not just bliss alone? I mean only pure bliss consciousness will stay forever, right?

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68

I’m certainly not going to say yes or no to any of your questions, and after a dozen years of practice not had the Amrita experience, in spite of a very active nasal cavity from Ketchari. my guess is it depends on the yogi and many roads lead home, which will likely not satisfy you for your answers. as you have stated, these are questions of the mind.

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Amrita, the nectar of immortality, is produced in samadhi and cultivates refined perceptions and spiritual transformation. Thus, practicing meditation and the other limbs of yoga is the way to become aware of it.

As about the question of what is forever, “forever” still implies some temporal dimension, and consciousness is beyond time and space. Even bliss is an experience of the bliss body, and there is more beyond it. You will know it not with the mind, but by being. There is so much more to come - even though it is all here now :upside_down_face:

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Hello everyone,

a little update to me.

I am feeling in overall stable and good. My spiritual practises gets deeper and deeper, expanding more and more. The experience in practises and outside of the practises are very good.

The only thing some questions I can´t find answers. I think, my bhakti is very low. In compare to John Wilder (Yogani), Jesus, Yogananda or Tristan and many more I have no bhakti at all. I am practiing daily twice, but for more there is not enough bhakti.

I have orgasm every four/five days, eating a lot sugar, my diet in general is not good. I drink coffee before meditation session. I am not in complete control of my thoughts/emotions. I am not in abiding inner witness. Consuming porn.

All things people with great bhakti have.

Okay, the coffee thing is actually enhancing my experience in practises, and I feel in general more healthy with it. But everything else does reduce my spiritual progress.

I am not doing a structure self inquiry practise, bc whenever I close my eyes I slide into shambavi mudra, and then I am in danger to overload. I can´t do structured self inquiry. (with open eyes it don´t work well either.)

I am stable and good at the moment…but there is a biiiig distinction between spiritual practises experiences and everyday experiences. I am far away from ecstatic bliss, outpouring divine love and abiding inner stillness. In practises, it is there and it is evolving more and more.

What can I do to enhance bhakti? How can I cultivate more bhakti? How can I use my depression and the hindrance life gives me, for my spiritual progress?

I know, doing twice daily practise, structured Jnana Yoga and living daily life is more than enough. But my progress is tooo slow. My ishta/ideal is humanity with strong connection to God. I want to end suffering all together on earth. Like John Wilder did.

But in comparison I am extremly slow. I know its fantasy. But Yogananda, Jesus, Buddha and other people has done such thing in real life. Maybe this is just ego, but I want to make the progress faster.

Of course the best way is seva/service in daily life. I am not drawing to it, otherwise than giving spiritual practises to others. But this is difficult. Most people don´t want these spiritual practises. I only give it to 4-5 persons. (But this makes a big difference in my experiences in practises)

So, maybe I have to look closer to karma yoga. Which ways do u know we can practise service in daily life. I mean, I am doing 40 hours work. It´s hard to do after work karma yoga.

My work in general is standing in the way of my enlightenment. At least I feel like this. On the other hand we need to integrate things. Does anyone have suggestions for me how I can bring more spiritual progress into my life?

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Hi the1996,

I had similar Bhakti related thoughts a while back, and someone suggested that the fact that I wanted more Bhakti was actually Bhakti itself. It means the solution is being formed.

I guess it’s the other side of the coin, on one side is ‘I’m so into this spiritual stuff and life is so good’ side, and the dark side is ‘I want more Bhakti, I’m sad cos I don’t have enough’.

Wanting Bhakti IS Bhakti! :blush:

The fact that you are keeping up practice twice daily is a sign that you have more Bhakti than you think. Especially amongst all the negative tendencies you have listed. These will inevitably be phased out simply by continuing practices, this is where faith comes in, but you will see with time.

With the porn thing, it becomes apparent at some point that divine love is much more preferable to the more carnal nature of genital orgasm and looking at porn. Thus we find it easier to favour cultivation annd practices over the temporary excitement of porn.

Keep going you are doing great :+1:

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72

Your determination to practice and walk the path for however long it takes is bhakti itself.

Since you were coming from a state of instability, adding more practices at the moment would not be a good idea anyways… and I remember waiting until April 26 before ramping up in any way was the plan anyways?

Comparing to others is not helping either as your path is unique and so is your contribution to the whole. The hindrance in form of an inability to accept this, is something to be overcome. Love yourself - as you are.

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73

Okay, thank u for your reply.

yes, no sitting practise till 01.04.2026. But I see, maybe it goes for karma yoga, too ?!?

Than I think it is wise to focus my bhakti into patience, and grounding… It´s very hard u know. Espiacially when u see so much happening in practise, and it doesn´t come over to daily life.
But I think my stable and good experiences are a form of inner stillness which is coming up. I practise now more patience, but obviously I need some reminder from time to time. Thank u for that!

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74

Hello everybody. little update to me.

How expected from an wider view, the intese bhakti lead to some overload. Not very intense but I didn´t felt the last two weeks so good.

It´s always a cycle I am going through. I am feeling great and stable, which intensify of my bhakti which lead to overload. During overload I am moderate my bhakti and that over time leads to stability.

The problem is after some time (weeks and months) of self pacing effectively the overload also needs some time like weeks and months to show up.

So, we have to be aware that self pacing is a progress over weeks, not just days or even sessions. The challenge for me will be in phases after succesfully self pacing not to overdo, not even in bhakt.

There I have to stop reading the novel John Wilder, and focusing more on lessons about self pacing. Because always after reading John Wilder, I have such an intense bhakti which is counterproductive.

And I have found out for myself that two orgasms after three or four days is best for my balance and overall wellbeing. Doing the blocking technique and focusing on upper chakras, there is almost none loss of spiritual prana. At least, it don´t feel like this. And my well being is benefiting from it. And bhakti is not so intense.

You know, whats one reason for my overdoing? Its because I think that my spiritual progress is the spiritual progress of humanity. And when I am not doing enough than I fear not prevent suffering which could be prevented. But when I am out of balance, which help is it for humanity?? So, I think for every aspect (myself, my environment and even humanity) it is best to be in balance, I think!?!

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Little update from here: It is pretty like always…

At weekend I am very stable, and feeling mostly happy. When I am in work it´s not so good.

My practise routine is stable, producing great states of stillness and energy flow.

My wish is to find more abiding stillness and energy in daily life.

But now, I think, I know why this is. For me, It´s really a question of attidude. When I am at home the energy flow and stillness is there. In work not.

So, I really have to work on my attidude in relation to work. Work is an essential part of life, and finding joy in it is a very important part of the spiritual journey, and life journey in general.

One thing I am confused on is…how important is dharma? With dharma I mean our life purpose. Is there really a life purpose in what we do? Or is it more how we do it?

Because Yogani always says that we can be happy indipendent of external circumstances. Our job is an external circumstance. So, shouldn´t we find happiness in every job when it is true what Yogani says?

My job is very good from a rationale stand point. There is no stress and hectic, I can work in my own speed, there is no high pressure. The only problem I have is that I can´t do it in stillness and full of energy. So the question is: Is it an attidude problem, or is it the wrong job?

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Hi th1996,

All I can think to do is to reply with a friendly reminder that there are no problems, really. Notice them and let them go. It will improve in time, just keep going! :smiling_face: Patience is key.

Our life purpose is to become identified with pure awareness over many years/lifetimes. We do this ‘through’ our day to day experience, not in spite of it (as Ram Dass says). How you do everything is the most important, with your whole, undivided attention (which is basically the definition of ‘pure love’).

It is up to you if you want to change jobs, but in my experience the obstacles show up in different ways. I empathise because I have gone through the exact same thoughts as you describe, but it has gotten so much better with time.

The more we open the more obvious it is that when we can simply ‘be’ , there are no problems. All problems are in the mind, and don’t really exist.

When I go through a bout of these kinds of thoughts I get a great deal of support from reading certain parts of the Bhagavad Gita, the parts about following our ‘role’ in life. I find it comforting and affirming. Perhaps have a look at the ‘walkthrough for westerners’ version, it’s really great. :+1:

Not sure if that helps, but I hope it does!

Kindest regards,

Tom

P.s what is it you do for work by the way?

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77

thank you so much for your reply.

I will take a closer look at ´walkthrough for westerners´

And yes, I agree with it that problems are only in the mind. And it is certainly true that doing it with undivided attention is the key!

So, I think you are right in that it will get better, because it already got better! So, yes patience and espiacially deep meditation are the key. While problems are made in mind, when we are identified as mind, we have problems. So, I think, it is best to not identify with mind/problems…where deep meditation is helping!

I am working in a warehouse.

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I do believe as this yogi moves along spiritually, there is space in the quiet of a moment to attend to whatever, when I am open as possible. Inner joy is accessible when loose thoughts aren’t interfering.

Some lives chose their dharma, mine was born, I was the caregiver to two daughters, one autistic, sometimes aggressive, whose needs necessitated her living in a group home. Yoga and rising inner silence really helped in the daily chaotic moments when she lived with us, but also in her lighter moments and beaming smile. My daily job is what is right in front of me, even in retirement, I find it important to routinely invite up inner silence and observe, with compassion, the random thoughts I catch thinking.

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Hi the1996,

I was just using the Ai AYP thing, and saw the question, ‘ how do I find my dharma and life purpose’ . It gave a pretty nice reply-

According to the sources, finding your unique dharma and life purpose is not a matter of looking for a destination elsewhere, but of unfolding your inner nature and allowing it to express itself through your current circumstances.

The following principles provide a comprehensive guide to identifying and living your purpose:

  1. Define Your Dharma

The sources define dharma as the outer expression of your inner spiritual unfoldment . It is the activity you perform in the world that naturally supports your spiritual evolution. The fundamental meaning of life, as understood in these teachings, is to help others as best you can without expecting a particular outcome or payback.

  1. Identify Your Unique Gifts

To find your specific role, you must look at your inherent talents. The sources suggest:

• Identify what you are uniquely good at (everyone is good at something).

• Find ways to bring benefit to others with that gift , whatever it may be.

• When you act from your heart in this way, the rest of your life will naturally take care of itself.

  1. Look “Right Under Your Nose”

A common mistake is believing you must escape your current life to find your purpose. However, the sources emphasize that your dharma is often found in your current responsibilities .

• Present circumstances , such as your role as a spouse, parent, provider, or employee, can be your dharma.

• Fulfilling these roles with dedication and prepare to give your best each day is the best way to secure your future and remain in dharma.

• The change required to find your purpose is primarily an inner one, not an outer one ; your work can become your dharma because it plays an essential role in your current growth.

  1. Cultivate Your “Ishta” (Chosen Ideal)

Your purpose is guided by what the sources call your Ishta , or “chosen ideal”.

• Only you can know what burns brightest in your heart —whether it is a relationship with a specific deity, a quest for Truth, or a commitment to service.

• This ideal acts as a beacon that leads you home to pure bliss consciousness and divine ecstasy.

• By focusing your spiritual desire (bhakti) on this ideal, you provide a channel for your emotional energy to fuel your transformation.

  1. Allow Practices to Guide You

Spiritual practices such as Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing Pranayama naturally take you in the direction of your dharma.

• As inner silence (the witness) rises, you gain the clarity to make choices that lead to expansion rather than contraction.

• When inner stillness begins to move, it eventually joins the “dance of life” in earnest through Service (Karma Yoga) .

• In the advanced stages of spiritual maturity, you realize that your purpose is to become a pure channel for an unending flow of divine love , acting for the good of all because you perceive everyone as an expression of your own Self.

Summary Insight: The sources suggest that if you are currently feeling a sense of “loneliness” or “lethargy” regarding your profession, it may be your life forcing you toward your dharma. Rather than searching for a “magic bullet” change, you are encouraged to excel in the present moment while maintaining consistent spiritual practices. In time, your inner silence will “take you by the hand” and guide you toward the most evolutionary expression of your life.

Have a great day :+1:

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ohhh, thank u so much! What a great answer!

  1. The best way to expand myself (beyond daily practises) is to show others AYP! When I “successfully” shown one AYP, and he is practising consistently, it opens me up very much!
  2. I am not good in anything! :smiley: the best I know is explaining spirituality (pointing my finder to the moon) in simple ways.
  3. interesting perspective!
  4. my Ishta is I think, beyond my longing for absolute truth, is to help humanity as a whole!!
  5. yes, thats true. As more as I progress the better I can let life happening. And this letting happening unfolds great things. For example my aunt has started (an unregular) deep meditation practise.

So, I think, I am on a good way. But sometimes my longing takes overhand, and than I want everything now. But life is an ever evolving unfoldement, and so its not possible to get everything now at the moment!!

Thank u again for your great answers !!

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I came on here with a vaguely formed idea of posting about my frustrations relating dharma - only to find my thoughts reflected exactly in your post!

I’m no christian, but I find much comfort in the Bible verse “seek ye first the kindgom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.” I interpret this as meaning that when you practice in earnest, your life circumstances will naturally align with what brings you further progress and joy.

I, too, get overwhelmed by the desire to have everything now. But when I look closely, I can see that my life is becoming more and more what I want it to be - and there’s always an oppurtunity to deepen my relationship to something, even if its ‘only’ my dog :grinning_face:

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