John Wilder and spiritual progress

Hi th1996,

Yes, this is true. We are the ones who dissolve our limiting beliefs. The practices only help. This is why at the end of every AYP lesson it says “The guru is in you”.

Another thing I don´t understand is why Yogani says that the old feelings and thoughts will stay. I have the feeling the more I am in love the more my thoughts and feelings are love- and my entire environment is love. I am now pure love, manifesting only love. Isn´t this outpouring of divine love?

When Yogani said that our thoughts and feelings stay, this was in reference to a certain stage on the spiritual path. It is the stage when the witness is being cultivated. During this stage, instead of getting caught up with our thoughts and feelings, we begin to be able to observe them as objects in the mind, arising and falling away on the screen of consciousness. So, the thoughts and feelings stay, but our relationship to them changes. We come to know our self to be the silent observer, always present whilst everything we are aware of comes and goes.

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Thank u for your answers…it is still very good, even work is good.

I get it, that we are not our thoughts and feelings and we are not caught up with it when the witness is cultivated. But isn´t it wise to work with our thoughts and emotions? They have so much potential for beauty… since a view days I work with them, espacially my beliefs. It makes so much a different.

I have the feeling that I am bc of my decision to work with them the creator of my life. Our beliefs create our experiences. I somehow “manipulate” myself into happiness, through repetition of my new beliefs. Is this spiritually okay to do so? Is it good to make good use of our thoughts and beliefs?

I am very much identified with my thoughts and feelings, the only way to stop my suffering is through creating new thoughts and beliefs.

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Hi th1996
The purpose of ayp and all yoga is to realise yourself regardless of any passing experiences that include positive thoughts

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Yes, I know. But it can be both, can’t it? We can train ourselves in positive thinking and doing Yoga. Or do I see it wrong?

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Hi th1996,

Yes, we can certainly work with our thoughts and emotions. And our actions as well! All thoughts, emotions, and actions can be elevated to a higher level and used it ways that gradually bring us closer to liberation and realisation of the true nature of the Self.

If you have not done so already, I would advise you to read Yogani’s book on Bhakti and Karma Yoga. It is a book devoted to this topic.

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Hello everyone,

here is a little update to me. I am doing amazing. My daily life and my daily practises are amazing at the moment.

I could added cosmic samyama, and I am stable with it. So, my practises are 4 postures of asana with samyama, 5 Mins of SPB, 10 MIns DM with SHREE OM SHREE OM AYÄM AYÄM NAMAH NAMAH, 5 mins Saymama, one breath heart breathing and cosmic samyama.

I feel amazing mostly during practises, and afterwards. I am so thankful for it.

My work stayed the same, but I am able to do it with much more joy.

My question today is, that I have lots of stillness sometimes, but I am not that stillness. It´s hard to discribe. I am still Timo, even there is lots of stillness somehow. But that stillness is in space and time. Can u relate to it? I have done that self inquiry course, which was a breakthrough for me in form in self love and affirmations. But I would love to experience more of my true nature… I think the way to go is to keep going…and eventually I will find my identity in stillness, and not so much in Timo. At the moment I am just Timo with lots of stillness and ecstasy.

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Hi Th1996,

That all sounds great! Thanks for sharing.

I would say to continue as you are doing. Gradually the stillness and silence will come more and more to the foreground, and identification with thoughts and feelings, such as identification with the idea of being a separate person, will move to the background. The more they move to the background, the more often they simply go unnoticed. Then one day we realise they are simply a memory.

One of the things about maintaining the process of identifying as a separate limited self is that it takes effort. We do not usually realise how much effort it takes, because we are so used to doing it, and often cannot even imagine not doing it. But, it is a bit like always holding a rock. It takes some effort to hold the rock. One day, we would probably think: “I could just put this rock down and my life would be easier”. It is the same with identification with a limited self. We start to notice that we can simply stop identifying with it, and every time we do, our life becomes easier.

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Hi all,

I have a question. Why is there so much ignorance and suffering in the world? When I am reaching deep states in meditation, or in other practises, I have the feeling that I am uplifting the entire world and humanity. Is this an illusion? Because I am only in the beginning, not having kundalini in digestion. So, it will get immensly stronger.

There are so many people who are further on the spiritual path than I am. So, I think the energetics impacting our environment is an illusion. Otherwise with Yogani, Tristan and many more people who are nearly enlighten we would see so much more peace. There are more people on the spiritual path than ever. How can there be war and all the negative stuff anymore? I really don´t get it. Because I see for myself that law of attraction is somehow true. And I affect my environment, at least I believe I do. But it doesn´t make sense somehow. So much suffering, (and yes, at the end and absolutely there is no one suffering) with so many enlighten(at least people who are far on their path) people.

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Hi Th1996,

It is true that there are more people than ever before on the spiritual path. But, for every person who has a serious spiritual practice, there are perhaps a hundred who do not. Spiritual practitioners are still very much a minority in the world. And even many of those people who do have a spiritual practice are still clouded by fear, anger and hatred at times. So, the wars continue, and suffering continues.

I do believe we will reach a tipping point where so many people are dedicated to the spiritual path that it will become impossible for countries to go to war. I believe we are moving closer to that tipping point every day. But, we are clearly not there yet.

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Thank u for ur answer. Hopefully we reach that point soon!

I am in a very bad situation. I don´t see me able to self pace more than 5 mins SPB, 10 Mins DM and 5 Mins Saymama. And I am not able to follow the right procedure of the sessions. I sometimes imagine sth which helps me to activate the eneergy more. I know it´s wrong practise, but I can´t change it. The ecstatsy addiction is too strong.

I have tried for view days to self pace (doing only 2 mins SBP and 5 Mins DM, nothing else), but that day was much more worse than the days before. My days generall is getting worser, my work is worse again.

I am not sure if the spiritual practises are causing this things, or I am just back in my depression. At least I feel like 6 weeks ago. The high phase is over.

And that´s bad. I don´t know what to do. Selfpacing and doing the right procedure is one element for me to feel good. But I can´t self pace and doing the right procedure because of my ecstasy addiction. Ofc I have selfpaced cosmic samyama and heart breathing out since two weeks
But I am feeling very bad at the moment. In my high phase I was practising this level what I do now. Than I added cosmic samyama and one breath heart breathing. In Vacation I noticed a little worsening but I could handle it. Since work two weeks I feel terrible. Than I have backed off practis, but it hasn´t stabilised, even changed anyting.

I know the wheel flying effect and the delayed effect of practises. Can it get better, even I don´t selfpace more?

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Hi th1996,

If you have reduced your spiritual practices due to energetic overload symptoms and you still do not feel good, then you need to self-pace downwards further and at the same time increase grounding practices. Every day go for a long walk, go swimming, clean the house, work in the yard. If you don’t do this, things will continue to get worse. AYP only works for people who are able to self-pace their practices. For others, it is not the right path.

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Hi th1996,

You write that you don’t manage to practice less than 5 mins SBP, 10 mins DM and 5 mins of samyama, because you feel you are addicted to the ecstasy. And that you sometimes even do things that are not AYP in order to increase the energy, presumably to trigger more ecstasy.

I think this might be a common situation (see Yogani’s quotes below), especially if ecstasy develops earlier than inner silence, something I’m familiar with. So while AYP is designed for people that are able to self-pace, there might be stretches on the path were this is particularly difficult because of one’s infatuation with ecstasy or other scenery. In my case, I treat this infatuation as a temporary phase, and I trust that once more stillness is present, and with it more non-attachment and equanimity, this will just evaporate. So you too can trust that this will pass over time, but it’s in your responsibility to make that time pass as smoothly as possible by self-pacing downward when you feel you should.

While the lessons often talk about stepping up and down in increments of 5 minutes, there is nothing wrong with changing SBP practice time in 1 minute steps, so there is no need to jump to zero if 5 mins are too much. You can just reduce to 3 mins and see how it goes for a few weeks. You should jump to zero mins SBP right away if the overload symptoms cause too much havoc in life (and if SBP is the most plausible culprit), and wait for some weeks till you feel ok again in daily life. Then you can step up again in 1 or 2 minute increments, and keeping SBP practice time fixed for a few weeks to test for stability.

I have been doing 3 mins SBP for the last 9 months, finding that this is stable for me (but on the edge), while still producing noticeable progress in the ecstatic conductivity department. Over these months I feel that the ecstasy has stabilized (less ups and downs), and I became less fascinated by and infatuated with it despite its slow continued rise. This might simply be a consequence of having less ups and downs, so that it has become easier to get used to its presence. So there was no need for me to reduce SBP to zero. But I removed all breath-suspension practices as they have turned out to be the strongest overload trigger for me (even just a single chin pump breath is too much). I also replaced for a while parts of these 3 mins of SBP with alternate nostril breathing. If you do something similar, you could keep your time of 5 mins fixed and still self-pace downwards by e.g. doing 2 min alternate nostril breathing followed by 3 mins SBP.

Have you tried out the public AI chat? I asked it “What should I do when I’m addicted to the ecstasy arising from my AYP practice?”
And it suggested many useful tips. These two lessons came up in the reply:

From lesson 113.1:

The ecstasy […] will gradually morph into a more expanded and less localized experience. So, while there may be that tendency to be “addicted” to the personal ecstasy, it will move beyond the personal over time, and be expressing more as an expansion of abiding inner silence and rising unity throughout life in general.

From lesson 258:

[Y]ou need to be sure your ecstatic “addiction” is not disrupting your deep meditation and samyama. Also, engaging in the world according to your tendency to help others is good. All of that will aid in the evolution of your ecstatic states to a higher manifestation. If you feel you are off balance in your practices, then ease off the ecstasy-producing ones and favor deep meditation more for a while, until you can bring your practices into balance. This is “self-pacing,” which you have no doubt seen discussed in the lessons. Getting carried away with ecstatic states is one of the signals to begin applying self-pacing. Uncomfortable energy excesses are another signal.

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Thanks for the answers!

Yes, it would be much better I’ve never start with AYP. But now its too late.

I will selfpace to 3 mins SBP, 8 mins DM and 5 mins Samyama. And then I will see how things will work out. Maybe, when I am comfortable in this session time I can self pace more.

Yes, it would be much better I’ve never start with AYP. But now its too late.

Hi th1996,

It is never too late to change your spiritual practice if you need to. Engaging in AYP practices in a condition where you are not able to self-pace would not be safe and is not recommended. So, do bear that in mind.

It sounds as if you are managing to cut back now, so that is good.

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Thank u. Yes, self pacing is important. Very important. And I won´t take up more practises than 5 mins SBP, 10 Mins DM and 5 mins Samyama

But I have to say it´s not an energetic overload what I am facing now. Unfortunaley I am just back in depression. Self pacing doesn´t change this fact.

But I have accepted it, and have got a nice insight. I compare always my life quality with others. But I have moderate depression, and I have to look “Is my life quality better than five years ago?”, and yes, it is. It´s even better than one year ago.

So, everyone who knows depression knows that there are good/better phases and worse phases. And in bad phases I can´t self pace myself into good phases. Even doing no meditation at all would change this fact. I have to live with this depression. And the practises helps me to do this. They give me strength and hope. Nothing motivates me more than looking forward to practise time, and seeing where it is going in 10 years. So, my faith in spiritual experiences is pushing me foreward. Otherwise I would finish my life. So, spiritual practise is an important part of my dealing with depression. Other things like sport, work and a healthy diet are important, too.

I just needed some days to accept the bad phase again. And I noticed, that Actually, I follow the procedure of the practises, at least I think. Sometimes, when I favor the mantra, the fantasy stays. But we don´t push it away, do we? So, when the fantasy wants to stay, it´s okay, Just easily favour the mantra. When it wants to go, just easily favour the mantra. I hope that this is right practise, and that is what I do.

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Hi th1996,

I think that’s a really good insight. Sometimes our experience of life is not what we wish it to be, and we cannot really “meditate it away” so that it’s not there anymore. It easily happens that we want to “stay with the bliss”, but I think there is a part of us that gets left behind when we try to do this. At least this has been my experience.

All the best

Adrian

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Thank u so much.

Is anyone aware of another system, where no self pacing is needed? I just want to practise twice daily for an half an hour like a robot. With AYP this doesn´t work because I am not able to self pace and adjust daily my practises.

And I suffer on depression sooo much. And I am not sure how much it is related to an energetic overload. Maybe it is, maybe not. And I am to addicted and unflexible to find out through reducing practise time.

Sometimes I have tried to let go of samyama completley, but then daily life was worser than before. But I only have done it in one or two sessions. And the reduce of my time to 3 mins SBP and 8 mins DM hasn´t shown an effect.

So, do u know any system which would be better for me?

Hi th1996,

Have you experienced depression before taking up spiritual practices? And do spiritual practices make it worse, or are practices a primary cause of depression? Sorry if you have covered all of this before in this topic (I am a bit behind), but it seems like you should be doing something different.

Your bhakti is very strong which is wonderful, but as you say, a steady practice you should not have to be constantly adjusting due to overload or depression is what you need. Are you familiar with Lesson 367 on measures for sensitivity to meditation with mantra? It may be that using breath as object would be more suitable for you, or even the passive awareness technique, as discussed in this recent topic on sensitivity to both mantra and breath meditation.

Also, if the depression has been occurring before spiritual practices or not primarily because of practices, have you sought medical assistance? If there is a chemical imbalance not related to spiritual practices, medical assistance could help.

May you find stability in your practice and life, so your spiritual longing can be fulfilled with good progress, comfort and safety.

The guru is in you.

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Hi th1996,

If you are not able to self pace spiritual practices, then you would be best only using a spiritual practice that does not require self-pacing. You would need to avoid meditation and pranayama, as all forms of meditation and pranayama require self-pacing at times. You would also need to avoid yoga asana and Samyama, as these also require self-pacing at times.

I would recommend Karma Yoga. This is one of the first forms of yoga that I practiced, and is very powerful. When practiced in an active way it involves service to the community. The service should be done in a way where there is no attachment to the fruits of the actions performed.

Karma Yoga opens the heart and purifies the body leading to liberation. It is extremely rare for anyone to need to self-pace Karma Yoga practice downwards.

Personally I began the practice of Karma Yoga when I was around 19 years old in a Buddhist monastery in Nepal, and today it forms the majority of the yoga that I do every day.

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Hi all,

I definitely agree with yogani and Tristan. I also know that when your body adapts to certain practice times, it can be pretty hard to scale back, because initially it can indeed feel worse. But I believe that our body also just adapts to less energy moving after a few days.

Even if you were to completly stop your practice, I don’t think that the kundalini would just disappear.

I guess that other systems handle this through the ‘guru system’ and through preliminary practices. Who knows, perhaps practicing asanas for years makes you less prone to overload when you then start to meditate?

All the best

:folded_hands:

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