Is there a realisation of the individual self?

17. Yoga, Science and Philosophy
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Hello,
I am currently reading some western psychology. There is the humanist school of thought, which holds the view that striving for self-realisation is the essential driving force in human beings. Now the representatives of this school do not understand self-realisation in the same way as we do in yoga. It is not about the unification of the individual self with the universal self, but the term is used in the sense that an individual strives for the fulfilment of his or her potential on a personal level. We can assume that this should ultimately lead to the discovery of spiritual potential and then on to realisation in the sense of yoga. Western psychology, however, understands this to mean first of all the development of talents, gifts, interests, preferences, etc. In other words, things in the world and on a personal level that have not yet been able to unfold due to unfavourable environmental conditions.
Yoga obviously goes beyond that but it seems to me that when you walk the spiritual path there are accelerated changes on a personality level. Things that are bad are let go of, better habits are established, etc.It also seems to me that when someone achieves realisation in the sense of yoga, his or her personality does not necessarily disappear on the outside.He or she may no longer identify with it, but not all realised masters seem to be the same.On the contrary, they appear very different in their demeanour and in the way they teach things.
It seems to me that the unfolding and growth on a personal level is also somehow important - it seems that every person, but also every blade of grass, every leaf or every snowflake is something unique and that this is also somehow part of creation.It would have been a pity for many musical geniuses, for example, if they had not developed their talent.
On the other hand, something like this can also become a distraction from the spiritual path and go astray in such a way that people consider achieving perfection in skills or reaching goals (climbing mountains, sailing around the world, etc.) to be their true destiny and miss the spiritual process.
The question is: Is there such a thing as a disposition towards a divine individual personality that should also unfold before enlightenment occurs and what role does this play on the path?

Greetings

Annademiel

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Hi Annademiel,

Yes, there is such a thing as a disposition toward a divine individual personality, and we call it “bhakti,” the desire for something more, to live the freedom of the divine in this life. However, the “divine individual personality” is not a prerequisite to enlightenment. Rather it is the effect of the emergence of the transcendent divine from within us. Bhakti on the level of the individual is certainly a prerequisite to enlightenment, but the illumination of the person comes from within in response to that bhakti, and diligent application of practices by those who crave awakening.

So rather than a humanist approach, or ascending hierarchy of needs (a la Maslow), being “the enlightenment,” the need (bhakti) in that psychological structure is fundamental to the individual’s path to enlightenment, which comes to us from beyond the personal in the form of abiding inner silence and ecstatic awakening. These are not prior aspects of the body/mind or personality, but are what illuminate the person from within. Only then can the person be said to be “enlightened,” which means illuminated from within. The person calls for it, cries for it, and then it comes. On rare occasions it may come seemingly spontaneously, but still from beyond the individual personality.

On developing talents and gifts, we all have them, and we can work to bring them out for the benefit of ourselves and others. However, it is well known that “gifts” can easily become a curse if not built on a solid foundation of inner stability, inner silence. Many a famous person able to achieve longevity has indicated that their success has been predicated on the development of an inner stability, enabling them to weather the storms of life, particularly “name and fame.” That goes for all of us, famous or not. The byways of life are strewn with the remains of very gifted and talented people who did not have an inner foundation of stable inner silence. Many long time famous people have said it: “Meditate!”

The guru is in you.

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PS: Just for fun, after writing the post above, I asked the AYP Plus NotebookLM AI your question. It interprets “divine individual personality” to be one’s ishta (chosen ideal) rather than the individual personality, so a bit off on your question. But a good summary on bhakti in relation to one’s chosen ideal, practices, etc.

Q: Is there such a thing as a disposition towards a divine individual personality that should also unfold before enlightenment occurs and what role does this play on the path?

A: Yes, according to the sources, there is a concept of an individual’s highest ideal or “ishta” that plays a crucial role on the path to enlightenment, and its unfolding can be seen as a disposition towards a divine individual personality.

Here’s how the sources support this and the role it plays:

• The concept of Ishta (Chosen Ideal): Each individual has a “highest ideal,” referred to as “ishta,” which is deeply personal and resides within. This is not necessarily a traditional religious figure but can be a dedicated inquiry like “Who am I?” or a simple question like “Is there something more?” Your journey itself can be considered your ishta.

• Bhakti (Devotion) as the Engine: The driving force behind spiritual unfoldment, including the pursuit of the ishta, is bhakti, which is described as “love of Truth” or “love of God”, and rooted in desire. It is the emotional energy harnessed towards an ideal. Bhakti gets you to your practices and helps you favor them.

• Personality and the Chosen Ideal: Personality plays a role in shaping one’s chosen ideal. Those naturally devotional might gravitate towards worship, while analytical individuals may be drawn to self-inquiry. Regardless of the form, devotion to the chosen ideal is involved.

• Unfolding and Evolution of the Ishta: The ishta is not static; it evolves and expands over time as one progresses on the spiritual path through purification and opening of the nervous system. This evolution is facilitated by gently favoring the ideal and the practices one is inspired to do. The journey through various stages can be seen as the ishta unfolding.

• Role of the Unfolding Ishta:
– Motivation: The initial formation of an ideal inspires questions and sets the journey in motion.
– Direction: It helps in redirecting energies of attraction and aversion. Your ◦desire leads you to something.
– Sustaining Practice: Bhakti towards the ishta enables the sustaining of daily spiritual practice.
– Attracting Guidance: Deep longing within will attract the teachings needed.
– Inner Expansion: Acting on the blessings attracted leads to an expansion of pure bliss consciousness and awakened divine ecstasy, and the chosen ideal expands within.
– Clarification: The process of bhakti clarifies the initial fuzzy notions and desires over time.
– Progress: A growing desire for truth and enlightenment, fueled by the evolving ishta, propels one forward.
– Transformation: Eventually, the inner process itself can become the ideal, leading to surrender and the emergence of service as the ideal, culminating in unity.
– Realization: The ishta evolves from inspiration to the full expression of truth, where your ishta and your journey become One, leading to the divine seen as your own self in all.
• Inner Guru: The sources also mention that the guru is within you. The guru’s flow of consciousness begins with your desire, connects with outer knowledge, and expands inside as knowledge is applied. This inner guidance aligns with the personal unfolding of the ishta.
In essence, the journey to enlightenment involves a deeply personal unfolding driven by devotion to one’s highest ideal. This ideal, influenced by individual disposition, evolves through practice and inner purification, guiding the individual towards the realization of their divine potential and ultimately merging with the universal Self. The cultivation and evolution of this personal “divine personality” as represented by the ishta and fueled by bhakti is integral to the spiritual path

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Wow an answer from Yogani, thank you :slight_smile:

Strangely, or maybe not so strange: After I had asked the question in the morning, it occurred to me in the afternoon that I should probably have added bhakti to the question. I made a handwritten note about it: ‘Did I get it right that working on the individual personality can be a part of the istha, once the spiritual process has begun?“
Well, this question has been answered and I have now also become clearer that the ishta does not necessarily have to represent the the person of a master, but also refers to the discovering and treading the path itself or the ideals we strive for ideals such as charitable behaviour and so on. That would been another question I would have wanted to ask.

Thanks also to Tristan and his videos at this point. The video about the relationship between samyama and bhakti has also shed light into darkness.

The fact that you can also use the path or values for the process of bhakti plays a role for me personally. Although there is a master who takes first place in my heart with his example in his deeds and teachings and whose spiritual guidance I recognise, it is not my goal to become exactly like him, to follow everything he said word by word or to worship him. I don’t think it would make sense or be possible to strive to become a small copy of him. That just wouldn’t suit me and I appreciated this master precisely because he offered himself very strongly as ‘just’ a helper on the path. Among other things, he said: ‘Believe in yourself first’ and: ‘I don’t want followers, I want to show the way’. I already feel a kinship with individual traits of his and that these are strengthened through spiritual contact with him and his teachings. But overall it is more my goal to walk the path, to motivate others to start their own spiritual path and to become myself.

However, the “divine individual personality” is not a prerequisite to enlightenment. Rather it is the effect of the emergence of the transcendent divine from within us.

Well, now that you put it that way, it’s kind of obvious: contact with the divine, which is established through exercises, brings out the best in us on all levels, including the personality level. If I understand you correctly.
I was just wondering if all this individual stuff has its value or if it’s just something that hides the true universal nature and needs to be got rid of; teachings of liberation can sometimes sound a bit like that. I was also thinking of what Tristan said in the video ‘Why did Buddha say: There is no self’ about the teachings of Anatta.
But as I said before: outwardly, realized masters continue to give the impression of having a strong individual, wonderful personality, they seem unfolded rather than erased.

Perhaps one could also say that the One Divine expresses itself in a perfect way through them and in the world individually - as if it were shining through from within?

Yes, the western psychology thing is a bit disappointing: I mean all these professors and doctors and students with their education and all their brain scanners and theories and in the end a few lines of Patanjali contain more than many hundreds of pages of psychology textbooks.
But at least it seems that mindfulness-based practices and thus also meditation are slowly finding their way into science, medicine, psychotherapy and also into teaching at some schools. Here in Germany, we are a long way behind in terms of education, but there are already some schools that have integrated mindfulness into their teaching. I would like to ask a separate question about MBSR* and MBCT and the concept of ‘acceptance’ that is common there later, but first I’m looking to see if anyone has already done this.

  • (For me it looks like that Prof. John Krabat Zinn has done the world a great favour by making meditation socially acceptable in science but it seems that he has also looked at mindfulness with a more western understanding)

Greetings
Annademiel

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