Intense Symptoms Even with 2x5 Minutes – Need Advice

15. Kundalini Issues Not Related to the AYP System
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Hello everyone,

My name is Freddy, I live north of Paris. AYP has been a major discovery for me. Before this, I had no knowledge of yoga, and this practice made me realize that I am more than just a body. I have bought all the AYP books in French, and this approach has been a revelation for me.

From my very first practices, the symptoms were powerful and surprised me. At that time, I could practice up to 20 minutes, but it became too difficult. An inner voice (probably the ego) pushed me to reduce the duration or skip sessions, until I eventually stopped completely.

In January, I felt a strong desire to resume, but even with 2x5 minutes, the practice remains intense and challenging.

(Note: I am not an English speaker, so I am making an effort to translate this using a translator to be able to communicate here. Thank you for your understanding.)

My Current Practice:

  1. Spinal Breathing Pranayama (5 minutes)
  • Visualization of the breath rising from the perineum to the third eye during inhalation and descending during exhalation.
  • Soft and natural breathing, without forcing.
  • Mudra used: Index finger bent under the thumb to stabilize energy.
  • Mulabandha and Sambhavi Mudra removed, but symptoms persist.
  1. Deep Meditation with the IAM mantra (5 minutes)
  • Mental repetition of the IAM mantra, effortlessly.
  • Stable posture: Straight spine, hands resting on thighs, palms facing down.
  1. Recent Adjustments to Stabilize Energy:
  • Mudra for the hands: reduces hand movements but does not completely stop them.
  • Conscious walking after the session to ground myself.
  • Household maintenance activities after meditation.
  • Working alone at home on the restoration of old films, which involves meticulous tasks and a certain level of concentration.
  • Hydration after practice.

My Current Symptoms:

  • Involuntary movements persist throughout the session.
  • Head moving forward, backward, or sideways.
  • Shoulders automatically rising and falling.
  • Pelvis rotating slightly, less than before.
  • Pressure in the upper back (sometimes at the heart chakra level) only when practicing outside my home, but it is infrequent.
  • Frequent yawning during practice.
  • Spontaneous tears after meditation.
  • Hands moving involuntarily (less with the mudra but not completely stopped).

Why Am I Asking This Question?
I have practiced AYP with longer sessions in the past, but it became too intense. I stopped because it was too difficult, and gradually, an inner voice convinced me to reduce, then skip sessions, until I stopped completely.

Now that I have resumed, I realize that even with 2x5 minutes and without Mulabandha or Sambhavi Mudra, the symptoms are still there.

My Questions:

  1. Why do these symptoms persist even with such a short practice?
  2. Is this a sign of purification or a blockage that needs to be overcome?
  3. How can I make the practice more stable and less challenging?
  4. Should I further reduce the duration or adjust my practice differently?

If anyone has experienced something similar or has any advice to share, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.

Thank you in advance for your responses and your help.

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Hi Freddy,

Welcome to the forum!

These are all symptoms of purification happening in the body. The spontaneous movements are sometimes referred to as “kriyas”, or “automatic yogas” and are caused by prana flowing through the energy channels. The pressure on your upper back is likely caused by the heart chakra purifying.

As for what action to take, if any, that depends on whether your symptoms are uncomfortable or not? If they are not uncomfortable or painful, then there is no need to change anything about your practice. You can simply continue as you are, and allow the purification to happen. It will not last forever, and eventually things will settle down as the channels become pure.

If what you are experiencing is uncomfortable, or painful, then you can self-pace your practice downwards and increase grounding practices. See lesson 367 for more on this:

The French version of that page is here:

https://www.aypsite.com/french/lecon_367.html

The recommendation there is to switch Spinal Breathing Pranayama temporarily to Alternate Nostril Breathing, and to switch Deep Meditation temporarily to breathing meditation. If even that was too strong, you could drop Alternate Nostril Breathing. If even that was too strong, you could self-pace to zero for some time, whilst the purification clears.

It sounds as if you have grounding practices well in-hand, so no worries there.

There is a Self-Pacing and Grounding flow chart available as a free PDF download here. This may help. Unfortunately we do not have a French version available yet.

You may also find this video useful on managing painful kundalini symptoms. There are subtitles in French (Settings > Subtitles > Auto-translate > Select language).

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Merci.
Thank you so much. I also watched your video and PDF.
What do you think the mind is generally trying to sabotage the practice? Unless it’s an entity?
Is this something known?

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Hi Freddy,

It is most likely just purification happening in the subtle nervous system, the system of chakras and nadis in the body. This can cause all sorts of symptoms, including powerful thoughts, emotions, mood swings, shaking, jerking, swaying, heat, burning sensations, pain and so on.

But yes, the mind can also try to sabotage the practice, and try to keep us from awakening. This can be clearly seen sometimes whilst practicing, and can even seem funny when it is obvious. But at other times, it is less obvious, and we can end up being distracted for a long time.

Negative entities can also create certain symptoms such as the swaying or jerking sensations, or certain powerful emotions. But, these are much less common. So, I would not suggest assuming that is a cause unless there is a specific reason to do so.

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In addition to physical symptoms such as involuntary movements of the head, shoulders, and hands, I have tested your "Grounding Flow Chart"technique. It seems effective, but I have to apply it at each session. Fortunately, although the symptoms persist, they have become more manageable and no longer require me to use it systematically.

I continue to practice twice a day, with 5 minutes of Pranayama followed by 5 minutes of deep meditation in each session. What can I expect in the coming months? Will I experience new sensations? Notice other effects? Develop certain abilities?

Do you think that in six months, there will be a noticeable change, or will I still be at the same stage?

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Hi Freddy,

Yes, when symptoms are intense, and at other times as well, we may need to adjust our practices every session, according to what is happening in the body and mind.

If you have needed to cut back to 5 minutes of Deep Meditation in each session, then you may want to consider switching to breathing meditation for some time. Breathing meditation is more gentle than the mantra. That is described in this lesson as well as in the Self-Pacing flow chart:

As for what you can expect by continuing your practice, that is impossible to say. It will depend on many factors including your bhakti (level of spiritual desire), your ability to self-pace well and remain grounded and on your unique matrix of obstructions.

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The symptoms have been stable for 15 days. Despite this, I continue my practice, telling myself that it might be beneficial for me. Maybe one day, all of this will disappear, and I will feel a state of bliss, or perhaps experience pleasant sensations or develop interesting abilities.

I resumed my practice at the end of December 2024, after having practiced the AYP method for several years in the pass. Currently, I practice **10 minutes, twice a day, but I do not feel any benefits so far. For now, I am giving myself six months to see if there is any change. If I notice progress, it will motivate me to continue. However, if nothing changes, I might lose motivation. After all, we don’t do things for nothing.

I translate Bhakti as “motivation”, because it is what drives me to keep going, despite the lack of concrete results or perceived benefits for now.

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Hi Freddy,

When the only symptoms of practice are strange automatic bodily movements, and nothing pleasurable is experienced, it can feel as if nothing beneficial is happening as a consequence of our spiritual practices. Depending on the amount of purification that is needed in the subtle nervous system, this can continue to be the case for months, or even years.

In my own practice I began to experience strange automatic bodily movements when I was around 21, or 22 years old. I would say it was another three, or four, years after that before I experienced bliss during meditation. Even then, it only happened occasionally. It was around ten more years before I experienced whole-body ecstasy.

The spiritual path is a long journey, and we need to be in it for the long-term if we want to see results. Part of the reason that I stuck with it was because I had faith in the words written by many yogis who had walked the path already over the last few thousand years. I had no reason to believe that their words were not true. And I knew that their journeys had been long ones, not for a few months, or a few years, but rather for decades, or longer.

There was one point where I gave up completely. I decided that the spiritual path was not for me and that the next day I would stop the practice of meditation, and never try it again. The next day, whilst sitting in a car as a passenger, driving along a road, I entered a state of samadhi that lasted for three days. The universe has a funny way of putting us back on the spiritual path, whenever we fall off it, as long as it is the right path for us to be on. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Welcome Freddy

I am twelve years AYP, ecstatic for the last eight, and I can attest to Christi’s testimony: as the body purifies and obstructions clear, deep silence and pleasurable sensations follow, and are accessible to you 24/7, with intention and attention. That only comes with discipline of your practices and the desire for silence that is palpable.

Your mind is very good at distraction (mine still is! As Christi says it can be funny when you catch it in real time) and soon you might develop Witness, the ability to observe thoughts and actions, and eventually inquire about them. This all comes from a disciplined routine, keep at it! It is obvious purification is making changes to your neurobiology.

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Freddy, you and I seem to be in a similar situation right now - I wish you the best.

Tristian and Michael, I really needed to hear your encouragement today. I have been meditating quite seriously now for about 5 years. After about 4 years of seemingly steady progress with a number of beautiful openings interspersed, I hit a wall last spring. Not knowing what “overload” was, the Google machine eventually led me to Yogani and AYP, and the wisdom here, which I appreciate.

To my surprise, I have even been entertaining thoughts of quitting altogether lately. I know I will persist, but really needed to hear the experience of those who persisted and themselves grew beyond the purification symptoms, and settled more deeply into the silence and bliss - thank you.

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Hello Rich it is too bad you had to hit overload before knowing what it was, but lucky it led you to AYP and the vast amount of free knowledge Yogani has open sourced for the world. I have been very lucky not to have experienced much overload, it is obviously a hurdle for many, with desire pushing one forward while their body seeks a break and stability. If one is stable and disciplined, in my experience, deep silence and inner expansion becomes available on a daily basis, leaking into your circumstances, and with that, a greater love, pleasure, openness, and clarity in our seeking.

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I’m in France, I had the opportunity to try in the sun and by the sea sitting on pebbles in Nice in the south of France
I continue for 10 minutes, it’s not worse, it’s bearable but there are always these movements that I accept.

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Hello everyone,

I just wanted to share that I’m currently taking a pause from my AYP practice.

This decision is not due to a lack of interest or a rejection of the method. AYP has truly been a meaningful discovery for me.

However, I’m currently going through an intense period in my life, marked by heavy personal events: a bereavement, concerns about the health of loved ones, and an emotionally overwhelming atmosphere overall.

In this context, I’ve noticed that even short sessions of practice no longer bring me a sense of calm, and may even amplify certain tensions rather than relieve them. For me, stress tends to manifest around the heart area, sometimes with the need to take deep breaths to release what’s there. Right now, I feel the need to recenter myself differently and more simply, through small daily actions, quiet moments, or time in nature.

This pause is therefore an act of self-care, not a giving up. It allows me to respect my own rhythm, to listen to what I need in this moment, and to let life teach me in another way, without forcing the process.

Is it the right choice? I don’t know yet. But it’s what feels true for me right now.

With gratitude,
Freddy

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Hi Freddy,

See my response here to qspadone on a similar situation.

In your case, it sounds as if your heart chakra is beginning to open, which is often a powerful and sometimes overwhelming experience. This is especially true if it is combined with the release of the second major knot (Vishnu granthi).

Do take it easy, and look after yourself as things unfold.

You may find this lesson useful:

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Being sensitive to the suffering, illness, and death of others has nothing to do with meditation, as life naturally confronts us with such moments. However, to feel less anxious and stressed about these situations, what type of meditation could help? AYP does not discuss this.

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Hi Freddy,

Deep Meditation cultivates inner silence and leads to a reduction in anxiety and stress overall, including anxiety and stress related to suffering, illness and the death of others. It also leads to a gradual shift in identification from the body and the objects of the mind and senses, to identification with the our true Self as pure awareness in a state of unity, not separate from anything. In this state, we see clearly that no one suffers, no one becomes sick and no one dies. By this stage, we do not only experience a reduction in anxiety and stress related to these things, but there is no anxiety and stress, related to these things. In this state we are free to love fully and completely, no longer contracted by our own anxieties, fears and attachments.

The practice of Samyama aids in this process, as we are cultivating the daily habit of releasing things into silence. Self-inquiry practice also helps this process to gradually unfold. In fact all the limbs of yoga and all yogic practices work together in this process of liberation from suffering, as this state is not possible whilst there are still impurities present in the subtle nervous system.

If you are especially interested in investigating the process of coping with the death of loved ones, I can recommend the book “Who Dies: An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying” by Steven Levene.

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