Hi Christi,
It’s interesting to read your posts with all the knowledge you bring up about life outside of what mainstream society recognizes today. Have you studied the teachings of Theosophy? I have heard that the ascended masters dictated for example The Secret Doctrine to Helena Blavatsky and many other publications. They can be read for free online.
You’re most welcome, Shweta - thanks for the kind words!
[quote] Since then, I have been taking this stuff a little more seriously, although being a sceptic and a rationalist, I am very reluctant to believe anything unless I think it might be in my best interest to do so. 
L&L
Christi
Hello Christi, Ether & All, I, too, have been studying a bit about the world's different spiritual myths (and "myth" not meaning "untrue fable", but rather "illustrative, symbolic story" -- there's a lot more to truth that what we perceive to be historical actuality on the physical plane) -- and experiencing just enough trippy yet truly tangible stuff (much clearer vision of my own astral body, deep sensations and awareness when breathing "into" different chakras, experiencing much more via the third eye, and so on) -- to give me (also, historically, very much the "rational skeptic") ---- and very, very deep awareness that "this spiritual stuff" is REAL. And, as Christi pointed out, in many ways, *more* real than day-to-day physical plane life --- there's a sense of the experiences being somehow more pervasive, if that makes sense. And again, I've read quite a bit about the world's myths, recently - everything from Theosophy, to gnostic interpretations of the Bible, to the (seemingly) world-wide solar mythos (that God, and God-within-us has a WHOLE lot to do with the Sun) which all global spiritual traditions "roll-up" into, in terms of their originations. Or, if not "all", then at least: the Sanatana Dharma / Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and the (Egyptian, Greek, Celtic, et. al.) Western Mystery Traditions, Freemasonry, and Astrology (Jyotish / Vedic and Western) to name just a few. The Adam and Eve story is clearly highly symbolic - and I, too, question many of the interpretations which I've read / seen / heard - including Sri Yukteswar's. While that lineage (beginning, in terms of mortal founders at least, with Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, the father of modern Kriya Yoga) has clearly offered much that is of value to the world (Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda helped to "kick-start" many people's spiritual lives, including my own) -- I can't help but feel that some of the interpretations handed down (key example: Sri Yukteswar's interpretation of the Adam and Eve story) through that lineage, are: A. Colored by Culture (how else are you going to convince healthy young men to be celibate monks, if sex is not bad? In a sense - it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater to do this (guide them with information that may not be 100% accurate, in terms of the reasons, meanings, and veracity of certain information) - but - living as celibate monks *may* have made the difference between a person attaining enlightenment, or not, in a given life. (Though personally, I feel that hardcore adherence to celibacy can be just about as distorting as full-blown hedonism --- and that a conscious approach to sexuality, with awareness of all related ramifications - is the "enlightened way" to approach this key area of life ---- and "key area" is a term NOT used loosely, per the link below, which is the essence of this post.) & B. Designed to "market" the widsom of Yogananda's lineage to the West (See? We even understand all 'bout Adam and Eve, the traditional Christian interpretation of which has bugged the bejeebers out of you since before puberty ....!) The ego / mind feels SO much better when a clear, rational explanation for something is offered (more's the pity ....). HOWEVER ..... There is a difference between salving the mind with something pseudo-rational .... and offering clarity concerning symbols and meanings that point the way with a very high degree of accuracy -- regarding what "all this spiritual stuff" is truly about. In my experience, and relatively extensive study, the article at the following link provides the most extensive, clear and clarifying information I have yet read concerning Adam and Eve (and related symbols), and a whole bunch of other stuff that could be rather key to our individual & collective spiritual evolution / sadhana. (And by the way ---- including the answer to Ether's original question .... or at least some pretty significant signposts thereto ....) http://kalignosis.com/book/21LiquidFireIgneousWater.php Hope you find it interesting and useful - I'll be interested in any comments and insights that anyone has (and, disclaimer time: I'm not saying that I agree 100% with everything it says -- and I'm not saying I don't --- some of it is still kind of "germinating" -- but even with that disclaimer --- it's WELL worth the read, I'd say.) Peace & Namaste, Kirtanman PS - Beyond that, however - I'm afraid I can't help with the original question, for - in the immortal words of Scarlett's maid from Gone with the Wind (can't think of her name) ---- "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies!" :clown_face:
Thanks Kirtanman,
I found this paragraph particularly insightful:
“When the virile member is placed within the yoni a certain type of energy is manifested. This is the Holy Spirit moving over the Waters of Life, this is the energy of the Creator-Destroyer, Shiva-Shakti. When this manifestation is not wasted in a moment of passion, this energy can be used in the self realization of the being. This is White Sexual Magic. This act is terribly divine and the one who intelligently makes use of it can create themselves anew.”
On another page of kalos.com, we find this gem:
“The Immaculate Conception (the spotless birth of the Mother Mary) did not occur when she was physically conceived. The Immaculate Conception was when Mary was a born again of the Holy Spirit. Mary was an initiate of the Gnostic mysteries and practiced sexual transmutation, which is the same transubstantiation, with her husband. Mary had a husband, and she was born again in the Spirit through the creative power of God, which exist within the Spirit of God, which exists within the sexual “waters” of man and woman. She purified herself of all sin, of all imperfection and reached the state of virgin. Thus, she was capable in giving birth to the Savior of the World.”
http://kalignosis.com/book/04TheSexualProblem.php
And from that same page, this:
“…a sperm can and does on occasion leave the man without him reaching orgasm during the sexual act. There is no need to reach the orgasm. The orgasm is not required to have children, yet the Roman Catholic Church advocates the orgasm. This is because the Roman Catholic Church does not know that the fall of Adam and Eve is related with the orgasm.”
B.
When some people reach certain views, they back-fit it into the scriptures and myths of traditions, whether their own or other people’s. To a large extent, I believe that is what Sri Yukteswar, Paramhansa Yogananda, the authors of the above texts are doing. It’s a process something like going through all the things Nostradamus said and fitting them to real events.
Therefore, read with some discernment: because these views are not necessarily ones that the writers of the scriptures had.
http://kalignosis.com/book/04TheSexualProblem.php:
The true, superior, esoteric meaning of a virgin has not to do with sexual abstention. A virgin has nothing to do with the presence or there lack of a woman’s hymen. A virgin is one who is absolutely chaste on all the levels of the heart and the mind. A virgin is one who enacts immaculate sexuality. Immaculate means spotless, perfect, flawless.
Fair enough, but that meaning is in the mind of the author of that piece. And where else, it is hard to say. It’s quite a leap to back-fit the principles of tantra into the virginity-cultic thinking that meshed with Christianity at some point.
Point well taken.
I read these modern commentaries as quite probably inventive; nevertheless, they are useful as an adjunct to the practice of abstaining from orgasm. Such interpretation is an ongoing cycle of experiencing chastity and re-reading, back and forth, on and on. Those of us abstaining from orgasm start seeing familiar things in a different light.
Unlike cloning, the practice of abstaining from orgasm is one that has been available throughout history, however very rarely practiced. I should be one to talk. My last ejaculatory orgasm 
was a mere eleven days ago. Even so, I’m feeling the energy of conservation.
So David, how do you interpret the “virginity-cultic thinking that meshed with Christianity”? Surely it has something to do with promoting transmutation of sexual energy, not only among the singles but also among the devout married, that is, legitimately sexually active members! And if I may ask, how does your reading of the history relate to your practice? 
B.
I read these modern commentaries as quite probably inventive; nevertheless, they are useful as an adjunct to the practice of abstaining from orgasm
I agree.
So David, how do you interpret the “virginity-cultic thinking that meshed with Christianity”?
Well, I’m no expert by any means on the history. But I do know that virginity-cultic themes were widespread in ancient history and I think there may be native human tendencies towards it, just as there are probably native human tendencies towards recurring themes such as sacrificing to the gods. But I’m not going to assume that the virginity-cults and advanced tantric principles come from the same place in the psyche. My personal thinking on the matter is, no, they don’t come from the same place and are somewhat co-incidentally related. But that’s just my personal thinking.
And if I may ask, how does your reading of the history relate to your practice?
To be honest, it doesn’t. All I can say is that virginity cults are hard to get going in modern times and I think it’s a good thing.
CHESTER, England — As Christmas approaches, a virgin mother is anxiously awaiting the arrival of her offspring. She’s Flora, the Komodo dragon.
In an evolutionary twist, Flora has managed to become pregnant all on her own without any male help. It would seem the timing is auspicious: the seven baby Komodo dragons are due this festive season.
“We were blown away when we realized what she’d done,” said Kevin Buley, a reptile expert at Flora’s home at the Chester Zoo in this town in northern England. “But we certainly won’t be naming any of the hatchlings Jesus.”
Other reptile species reproduce asexually in a process known as parthenogenesis. But Flora’s virginal conception, and that of another Komodo dragon earlier this year at the London Zoo, are the first time it has been documented in a Komodo dragon. . .
Parthenogenesis is a process in which eggs become embryos without male fertilization. It has been seen in about 70 species, including snakes and lizards. Scientists are unsure whether female Komodo dragons have always had this latent ability to reproduce or if this is a new evolutionary development. . . .
The komodo’s keeper said he will begin to worry if he sees a really bright star outside the zoo on Christmas eve.
[interesting; the offspring are not exact clones of the mom as scientists would expect from virgin births. -ether]
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2006-12-20-komodo-virgin_x.htm?csp=24
i’ve heard people say they just can’t believe in miracles, and just want a religion that is down-to-earth. Well, what if Jesus was a reptile? it’s all starting to make sense now. . .
Hi Ether,
I get the sense that you seriously think Mary had Jesus without benefit of sperm.
B.
Tell it, David. Tell it! Totally agreed. 
How very true. In the final analysis, these are all merely unsubstantiated human attempts to understand and explain Sacred Mysteries through the deluded exercise of intellectual rationalization and philosophical conjecture. 
God’s Omnipotent Power to manifest Divine Will anywhere at anytime does not require human intellectual justification or the logic of rational human understanding. 
A Wise Man once said: “Any person who is unwilling or unable to accept ANYTHING on Faith alone…is doomed to a life of constant doubt.”
Hari OM!
Doc
Namaste bewell:
You’d probably be surprised to learn that there are apparently as many people worldwide who believe this to be true as there are those who do not! Even among non-Christians, especially Hindus and Muslims, there are many who willingly accept the fact that the Omnipotent Will of God is quite capable of directly entering into human history through the lives of specially chosen individuals, whether we understand how or why this would be done.
In many Eastern Traditions, the concept of a Divine Incarnation or Avatara is an ancient belief, and understood to be possible of manifestation anywhere and anytime that suits God’s Will.
Your somewhat condescending expression of personal disbelief would seem to negate this possibility merely on the basis of your own intellectual rationalization. 
Such personal discriminations and intellectual judgements, IMO, can in no way resolve this issue, either now or ever, as they are formed with insufficient information to arrive at a reasonable conclusion. 
Hari OM!
Doc
Bewell wrote:
“I get the sense that you seriously think Mary had Jesus without benefit of sperm.”
No, i don’t have reason to believe that although I think it’s possible. I think Jesus was a great teacher who achieved the same thing that you or I can achieve, was misunderstood, and the miracles were probably mostly added on later by the church, especially the ones indicating direct communications from God, meant for everyone. common man is easily impressed with miracles. People are convinced the bible is from God because prophecies have come true. but other books have true prophecies too. And the bible itself says not to fall for such trickery.
But reptilian virgin births at christmastime- now that’s something I can believe in.
O, Shark Bait! I had a feeling that there was something kinda ‘fishy’ about some of your views…but I couldn’t quite get a line on it until now.
Looks like maybe you got hooked on the wrong perspective! Your thinking on this subject seems to me to be a bit green around the gills. 
LOL
Hari OM!
Doc
Convenient that, considering the planet we’re on, and some of the even wilder theories that “those in Gnow” have graced us with …
And now, our eagerly awaited “Etymology Moment”:
Jnana = Sanskrit for Knowledge
Gnosis = Greek for Knowledge
Knowledge = English for Knowledge
Root: Jnana - Sanskrit for Knowledge
)
And for those of you who think that the whole idea of alien invaders, and snakes in gardens, and Lizardmen from the Sirius B system are the overworked pipe-dreams of concept-junkies who have nothing better to do than write verbose yet lengthy treatises in the wee hours of the morning …
L. Ron Hubbard and Kirtanman are not alone!!
(Though I am solely an “honorary nutter by reporting”, which is kind of like a first cousin by marriage, only different.)
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/super_synopsis.htm
(and kudos to the creator of the above URL for “UFO-ish Gnostic-like Theorist Creating the Web Address with the Highest Degree of Empiric Confidence, in a Nutcase Role”)
jeez, intelligent Lizardmen guiding ancient cultures … har, har, har …
( … And picture Kirtanman with harmonium in lap, being pulled along a dark cell-filled hallway, in a wheeled cage thingy, by two NCO Lizardmen from Sirius B, one with a copy of Weekly World News bearing the screaming headline "Elvis has L. Ron Hubbard’s Baby as Aliens Claim Human Feed-Stock for Their Home World, and the other wearing a T-Shirt saying "Lizards Can Grow It Back Faster.)
Cheers & Namaste*,
Kirtanman
*Yes, I really mean it - even in posts like this.
PS - NOTE TO SELF — No superfood smoothies after midnight
(I normally do something like a Reeses candy bar, whilst finishing off some ultra-steeped black tea which has gelled to the consistency or wet road tar - just as nature intended it. I honestly believe these antioxidants are warping my fragile little mind …)
There were many many allegorical accounts of immaculate conception throughout history:
Horse Apples!
It really fascinates me that so many of those posting here are willing to readily accept such a wide variety of incredulous views on this subject…gnostic, theosophical, alchemical, and mythical…yet apparently aren’t willing to accept even the possibility that maybe…just maybe…God chose to directly enter into human history by an unknowable and miraculous spiritual manifestation for a specific spiritual purpose through the long awaited and anxiously anticipated Virgin Birth of Yeshua Ha-Mashiach…Jesus The Messiah.
It should be noted that, like many other things nowadays, the common 1st Century perspective and belief regarding this doctrine was much different than the so-called ‘enlightened’ views of ‘modern’ secular society.
The following article provides further insights into the 1st Century religious perspective for those who may be unfamiliar with it.
http://www.kencollins.com/jesus-31.htm
Hari OM!
Doc
Thanks Vil, for answering my question.
doc wrote:
“were probably mostly added on later by the church, especially the ones indicating direct communications from God…But reptilian virgin births at christmastime- now that’s something I can believe in.”
You mis-quoted me there. What I believe was added by the church is direct communications from God FOR EVERYONE. In other words, evangelism. however, I firmly believe in direct communication from God to the individual it is given to.
Also, I know you were trying to be funny, but fish are not reptiles; so sharks, and hooks, and gills have nothing to do with parthenogenesis.
doc wrote:
“It really fascinates me that so many of those posting here are willing to readily accept such a wide variety of incredulous views on this subject…gnostic, theosophical, alchemical, and mythical. . .”
Just speaking (writing) for myself here, but I bet others here are the same; what is different about advanced yoga practices is that it is not about blind faith. It is about practices that purify the nervous system and allow us to experience things first hand. So, me and perhaps others here aren’t involved in the fear of “believing” the wrong thing. To me, “belief” is not very important. for instance, I am interested in the concept of virgin birth, but it doesn’t matter to me whether Jesus was born that way or not. It has no effect on my own purification and path to God. Jesus was a great teacher, and his teachings will always mean a lot to me, but what I believe was added by the churches is the idea that we cannot reach God on our own; that we need an “intercessor” (the church).
This concept gives the church power and distracts from your individual path to God, because you get caught up in the right-and-wrong of everyday living instead of finding God within yourself.
As I have already spoken against evangelism, I certainly wouldn’t discourage anyone from the path to god they choose as long as they don’t harm others.
But for many of us, the path to God has become so much more wonderful because we have discovered the path to be simple, easy to follow, and we get repeatable, concrete results that confirm we are doing the right thing. The funny thing is, other people can hold completely different “beliefs” about what is “truth”, and still do the practices and get results too. So that leads me to believe that God doesn’t care so much what religion you belong to or what beliefs you hold, as he cares about your devotion (bhakti), and purifying your system.
Doc,
I’m not saying one way or the other concerning the birth of Christ. I’m merely presenting a different perspective of a story taken as canon, when there are many accounts of the immaculate conception that predate Christ’s Birth. The same goes with the allegorical account of Adam and Eve.
VIL
Correction. Kirtanman mistakenly attributed the that catchy “reptilian virgin” quip to Bewell. But it is Etherfish who deserves full credit.
Bewell commented: “I get the sense that you seriously think Mary had Jesus without benefit of sperm.”
Etherfish replied: “No, i don’t have reason to believe that although I think it’s possible.”
Thanks Etherfish, for clarifying. I’m breathing easier.