Hi YB:
Silent Self (inner silence, witness), once cultivated, is abiding whether there are thoughts or not. So it is not only a condition of no-thinking, though it does give the mind a foundation in stillness, which tends to calm the mind. It is also the prerequisite for self-inquiry as described in the new AYP book on that subject.
But, no, Silent Self does not mean a condition of no thinking. Rather, it is the ground state of inspired and illuminated thinking, which is what perhaps the others are describing. Same condition, different words.
However, it is misleading to present Silent Self as a condition of “no thinking.” Then people get the idea that enlightenment is about killing thinking (and desires). This is not true. Not any more true than yoga being about sitting in a yoga pose. The field of play is beyond such external things, including our thoughts and feelings. Effective yoga practices cultivate the witness without getting into a wrestling match with the mind, emotions or body. It is about going beyond all that and coming back in as Silent Self, even as all the external stuff is continuing.
Yes, once we have been meditating for a while, abiding inner silence will be there even as purification and opening are underway. At some point we begin to see our thoughts as objects separate from our Silent Self, and this is where real self-inquiry begins. It is the beginning of being able to discriminate between Self and all objects, including our thoughts, emotions, the physical environment, and the ongoing purification and opening that are occurring within us. From this point on, kundalini becomes a cakewalk, along with the rest of life.
Silence with noise – not “noisy silence.” 
This is why Silent Self (the witness) is at the heart of all spiritual progress. Until we cultivate that, we will continue to be identified with external objects, beginning with our own thoughts. But it isn’t our thoughts we have to get rid of. It is abiding Silent Self (witness) that we want to add. That is the result the sages are describing in one way or other, depending on their current experience and personal perspective on how they got to that condition themselves (if they know).
The real question is: How can everyone bring about this condition in themselves quickly and safely?
It is one thing to talk about enlightenment. And something else entirely to be cultivating it by effective means. Then all the answers will be coming from within, and we can give our own description. I am looking forward to hearing about it from more and more people. Bring it on! 
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani,
After reading your last answer, it makes me think of what tibetan sects calls rigpa or Nature of the Mind" via Dzogchen system which is considered as a secret practice as opposed to shamanism (external practice) and tantrism (internal practice).
Does AYP system provides at a certain yogic level the equivalent of Dzogchen teachings and if yes, what specific lessons adresses the self introduction to rigpa ?
Namaste, Albert
Hi Albert:
That I can’t tell you, not being well-versed in the Tibetan systems. Perhaps others can shed some light?
One thing I can say is that the awakening is the same regardless of the system that is being used to approach it, assuming effective means are being applied. There is only one human nervous system with its inherent profound spiritual capabilities, and once things are set in motion via practices, the process will go to the same fruition. The experiences will be of the same nature, with the descriptions colored by background, culture and religion.
A rose is still a rose when called by any other name.
So I don’t agree that there are Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, etc. awakenings. All are the same process of human spiritual transformation, stimulated by one systematic approach or another, or an evolving integration of approaches (something new) which is where all of this is going in the information age. Modern Applied Spiritual Science.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
Love it.
When there is prevailing silence and purification happens… there is turmoil… but there is no association with the turmoil, no mind stories attached. Everyone (I think) has triggers for reactions… I have a few… and when no major purification is taking place, there is a sense of “nothing can touch me” even when the triggers are there. However when there is purification happening… and when I experience something (triggers) that would otherwise make me tense and worried and get my mind racing with stories and make me lash out and make me want to cry and make me sad or make me angry… the body reacts… so, my neck and back get tight, I may get a headache… and emotions arise… the ego gets a hold of these emotions… but in matter of minutes (at times even seconds) the entire thing dissolves… its like there is nothing that can keep the ego reactions in place. The body has still not forgotten how it’s supposed to react… and this is really strange (strange because it seems like the body reactions are independent of the emotional reactions)… it’s like the brain sets off the physical reactions it always did during stress… and the mind tries to hold on to the feelings and stories arising… but fails… it all dissolves away into the silence… at least this is what I experience… and from my level this is really huge (not when it’s happening… but later when I think of how I reacted or handled a situation… when it’s happening, there is no effort involved… the silence just does its thing) and yet so normal that I wonder how I missed it for so long. The mind is confused, so is the body… but the silence just is… and like Yogani says the silence moves, or like Adyashanti says, Emptiness Dances… The silence moves to encompass whatever else is arising, you don’t have to surrender (trying to surrender is a mind concept too)… there is nothing to do… it is all done once the silence moves (that is why being in some kind of regular practice that increases your inner silence, is so important). There is no noise… because the noise arises when the mind is active… when the silence is active… the noise does not have a chance to squeak.
The triggers too get less and less… even a trigger that may have bothered me all my life… even till yesterday… even the slightest hint of it may have send me into a downward spiral… (purification or no purification) may not not touch me today (mentally or physically)… it’s like the brain gets re-wired and that trigger loses its strength/power… and you are left in amazement of the process.
And yes… there are times I catch myself not thinking (of course, the min I think “Hey! I am not thinking”… I am thinking 
…)… like in meditation, really, never did think this was possible… but if you are not thinking of the past or worrying about the future… there are times when you have nothing to think about… don’t ask me how this happens… but it has something to do with the silence moving in and taking the space of the constant chatter…
You also find yourself able to communicate more succinctly without trying to do so… like words that should be spoken at that time just flow. No matter how much confusion is going on around you, you stay centered and are present and your ego does not get carried away by the situation (reminds me of “the eye of the storm”)… you don’t react… and soon everything around you picks up on the calm and kinda sorta settles down… and yet when you are there you are not thinking… “Hey, wow… look at me… how calm I am!!!”… you only realize it later… Then you are awestruck… and yet don’t find it necessary to tell anyone or make a big deal about it… guess one of the paradoxes of yoga.
PS: Just saw Yogani’s reply… "Silence with noise – not “noisy silence.” … perfect!!
Terrific post Shweta
Thats exactly where I am at this moment
Yep thats exactly it 
I wanted to ask if you’ve experienced, Shanti, Richard, yogani, or anyone else for that matter, if you continue to reexperience those triggers over and over again, until your mind relents and you just let go of it? Kind of like trying to kick chocolate, by abstaining, but the reverse is true, like eating so much of the stuff that you get just sick of it. In other words, instead of trying to separate yourself from the actual thought or behavioral trigger, you reexperience those things until the mind is tired of exhausted? It’s a sort of disensitization that is mentioned within the Writings of Tao Te Ching. (can’t seem to find the verse). Maybe yogani discusses this in his book or could add further wisdom to this topic? Anyway, it’s not a cake walk, for me, right now, yogani, and is more like walking a tight rope:
VIL
Thank you, Yogani.
We are thinking the same, I think, but I am using a play on words to express the paradox. Silent noise vs. noisy silence. Would it be accurate to say that the silence is in the background or perhaps surrounds the noise or contains the noise? Or it just co-exists with the noise.
The latter seems to be what you are saying.
I understand.
Maybe the Silent Self uses akido?
What is the nature of the silent self? Is it a static entity or is it dynamic?
If it is a witness it implies to me that it has no activity. Or is it an active silent witness?
It doesn’t think and it doesn’t speak and it doesn’t act or does it?
Is the witness cultivated or is it there and revealed once self enquiry has released it from identification with all mental and physical phenomena? Or is the cultivation the dis-identification process?
Who is cultivating it?
Yogani, what does this mean? Who or what is going beyond and coming back? Is what goes beyond what comes back?
Are they different entities or the same entity, only…different?
Does it mean having achieved a total dis-identification of myself from all of my false identifications?
Is the silent self an addition? Or a revelation? Or what is left over as the end result of self enquiry?
In other words, “oh, this is what I have always been, I just didn’t realize it because I confused myself with all the noise. But now I see that I am different from this noise. I have a different relationship to the ‘noise.’ I no longer mistake it for myself.”
Thanks again, yb.
Hi YB:
There is only One. Yet, perceptions change within the One as our vehicle of awareness (the nervous system) purifies and opens. During this process, the witness is first noticed as static, and later on as dynamic, within and synonymous with all that is happening – stillness in action. Paradox … and more…
The Silent Self is both the noise and is untouched by the noise. It is perception without identification…
The going out and coming back is the journey from pre-witnessing to witnessing, to discrimination, to dispassion, to outpouring divine love, to unity/Oneness. It is a journey from here to here. No place to go.
The word “realization” conveys what it is. Effective meditation is the primary means for cultivating realization. Samyama and self-inquiry move and reveal living stillness.
Silent Self is not primarily a mental habit. It is a whole body neurobiological awakening. This is why self-inquiry cannot do it alone, except in rare cases.
The energy techniques (pranayama, mudras, bandhas, tantra, etc.) give wings to stillness, facilitating realization of the dynamic nature of Silent Self. This is the natural role of kundalini – the ecstatic radiation of Silent Self from within us.
The new Self-Inquiry book attempts to present all of this in a practical, usable way. I’m not sure if it succeeds. Let me know.
The guru is in you.
Dear Yogani,
I hope you realize that i’m totally in the same line.
There is the map to explore the territory. Map is the system or the method and territory is the human spiritual experience. A good system or method can work for someone and not work for another person but this does not mean the system is bad.
In other words, the map is not the territory so at some point, one might need to not attach anymore to the system who provided the initial awakening because attaching is an ego trap but also gives lots of unnecessary arguments (my system is better than yours).
I’ve studied different systems to realize that they all take you to the same place but the method might be different as well as the speed and associated safety.
The spirit of my posts here is really trans-system integration where I’m looking for certain subsets, techniques so I can recover missing information from no name system I practice.
From what you’ve shared plus the fact i’m totally new to AYP, i suspect the book (self-inquiry) you are about to publish is really connected to Dzogchen. If it is the case, this would mean it is above sutras, tantras and AYP itself.
I would be also very interested to know your views or experiences with authentic shamanism.
In Shakti, Albert
Great thread, the posts re the silent witness and self inquiry are of particular interest to me. [quote]
Shanti said: And yes… there are times I catch myself not thinking (of course, the min I think “Hey! I am not thinking”… I am thinking …)… like in meditation
[/quote]
I wondered about this, whether it was possible somehow to observe the thinking process as something separate from thinking?.
Like the thinking objects that Yogani refers to are not actually observed as objects from a witness perspective, if that witness was in no-thinking mode.
When, for instance, we realise - oh there I go again with another thinking story - what happens here. Does another part of our thinking brain identify the thinking story or do we temporarily come out of thinking mode into silence in order to be able to identify it?
This may seem pedantic, but it’s good to have some sort of reference as to where one is in this.
Many years ago I did enter a state where I seemed to be observing myself from a point above me and able to converse with people from this witness place, I just needed to have the intention to say something and the words flowed out, the timing was perfect and I could observe a group of three or four people from this vantage point and see and hear everything going on from what seemed like a very intelligent place. Is this more like the kind of thing people are talking about? or was that some sort of fluke scenary going on?
Thanks
The triggers are there till they are seen through as a story. After that they may linger on for a bit out of habit, but lose their power till one day it loses its power completely and is gone. Really. It is very hard to believe this, but everything in this world or rather this entire world exists only between our two ears… its all a story… it’s all in the mind. When people said this earlier… I did not believe it… and I still find it hard to comprehend this… I don’t see how people say… “you were never born”, “you don’t exists”… that “they are all stories”… Umm… yes I was born to my parents, I am writing this post. Trying to understand this with the mind has caused a lot of confusion… but as I see more and more stories dissolving, I have dropped the concept of trying to understand it… when I am ready I just “get it”… so why try?
The feeling of dropping a trigger (story) completely is like watching a good mystery movie. During the movie you get all caught up in the story… your heart races, you feel the suspense and passion… you see the clues and analyze them… you are so involved in it… You have an option of not seeing the end of the movie and re-living that mystery for a long time. Or you watch the end of the movie and you know the entire plot and solve the mystery etc. Now (once you have seen the end of the movie) when you watch the movie a second time (re-live the story, the trigger) it does not have the same charm, since you know the end… you know the mystery…Then you watch it a 3rd time and 4th… and by then that movie does not bring up the same reactions anymore… Why? Because there is no mystery in it any more. You have seen through the plot, the mystery. Similarly… when you actually see through a mind story as a story and not reality, you cannot re-live that trigger with the same passion… you just cannot. (… and anything that bothers you is a story… even though you may think… “yes those are all stories… but then this and this and this incident that happened are not stories and I cannot give it up / get over them”. THEY ARE ALL STORIES… and if you think you cant give it up… let it [trying to see through the story] go for the moment and as you continue on your path you will see through those stories too… Or if you’d like to, do some self inquiry into it… but if you are not convinced, just let it [trying] go… If you are meditating regularly without expectations… the truth will show.)
Since you have been meditating for a while now, you may consider adding some self inquiry to your practice (and you may be already doing this.). As to what technique is the best… I wont know. I started off with “The Work” by Byron Katie. It is an excellent tool for anyone, no matter what level of inner silence is present. At first the results may be a little ego driven, a bit mindy (but will show you the truth from your level… which in itself will be a huge relief) but as your inner silence grows it gets easier and easier to see through mind stories. Another technique that helps me a lot is self inquiry like we do samyama… Ask a question and let go… and be ready to accept the reply in whatever way it is send … Not getting caught up in the mind stories about the result is something that will help. And of course doing your practice without expectations… 20 min in the morning and 20 min in the evening… meditate without a goal… Between those, do what you want… but the 40 min in a day give your mind a mini vacation and drop the “looking for something”.
There is no end to letting go. The more you let go the more there is to let go (drop trying to get a concept with your mind, be rigid, have a fixed set of expectations. Drop the must, should, need to, have to). It’s such an amazing journey… so much to know and only to find out you did know it all along… you had just forgotten while you lived with the noise.
Shanti,
I have a question for you regarding questions and objects that you would like to surrender and letting go like in Samyama. When you do this, do you embrace your silence and then release like in Samyama or do you just “throw it to the wind”?
Peace
Mac
I pick the word or question in my mind and drop it… meaning stop thinking about it. Very hard to do at first… even harder to not be looking for replies… any small thing that happens … you wonder… is this it… is this the reply??? If you are wondering (using your mind to figure out) if “this is the reply”… it probably isn’t… because when it is… something in you just knows… you don’t need confirmation from the mind. 
…
This does get easier with time and practice.
Does is answer your question Mac?
Yes, thank you. Sometimes I feel like winding up stillness with a little “I Am” for a couple of minutes and then letting the object go in Samyama but I keep on having anxiety in thinking that I am overdoing it which I have more than a tendency to do. Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack this thread! Heheh.
Mac
Hi Albert:
We are on the same page, even though coming from different backgrounds.
The ongoing integration of knowledge is surely the way to go. So many fields have advanced tremendously in recent centuries with this approach. Applied spiritual knowledge has not advanced much, except when rare prodigies (avatars, etc.) came along. Once ongoing research, development and optimization of applied knowledge are baked into the system, then there will be no stopping the widespread advancement of human spiritual transformation.
Well, may your high expectations for the new Self-Inquiry book come true – hopefully not to the point abstraction.
I’ll be happy if it succeeds in providing practical suggestions that will help folks better assess what is out there in the field of self-inquiry, and make intelligent choices on how they approach it in relation to their over all spiritual path. Nothing is “All or nothing.” It is about the intelligent integration of effective means applied over time, and making adjustments as necessary along the way – “self-pacing.”
Regarding shamanism, I know it isn’t primarily about etheogens, as so many believe. It is another approach to the everywhere present process of human spiritual transformation, with important contributions to share, and we are happy to see it explored here along with all other approaches.
The guru is in you.
“Who is cultivating it?”
Yogibear, this question was what triggered this post in me, it was driving me crazy(!):
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3148
So I’m so glad to see Yogani’s response here:
“There is only One. Yet, perceptions change within the One as our vehicle of awareness (the nervous system) purifies and opens.”
Different perceptions in different vehicles of awareness… Beautiful!
Sparkle,
Funny I found this question after a major weird meta-thought experience. Yesterday I was just getting on my train, stepping in to the door to the right, when I thought “I no longer believe my thoughts”. What happened then was exactly what you describe: I immediately took like a “jump” to the side while the thought was still hanging like a stripe in the air - observing both the thinking process and the thought as something completely “NOT ME”, like an object. I was aware of the body, face actually sort of frowning and making a very slight attempt to look to the left as if the thought was still hanging outside of the train while I had boarded. It was very, very clear how believing the thought “I no longer believe my thoughts” and telling it to myself as a story I learned from Byron Katie, repeating it as a parrot, was a non-valid mind construction with the purpose of trying to hold an image of ‘doing the right thing’, while observing the thinking happening was very… authentic. Very weird meta-experience to actually then not believe that particular thought!
Hi Yogani,
As an electrical engineer, i sometimes think we’ve reached a situation where the web is a thought-form archetype in Maya for sushumna. All different lineages, systems, pieces needed to be integrated, dissolved into the central channel. All the info in the web auto-regulates itself, cannot be controlled by countries so it is a non-dual expression of human spiritual wisdom which have been scattered for so long. You can not tell Shakti what to do, it is an ego-free manifestion through kundalini experience on earth.
Yes, entheogens belongs to the path of the sacred plants, one possible pathwork among the eight major shamanic paths:
- path of meditation or path of the breath
- path of the ritual
- path of the rythm
- ascetic’s path
- path of the sacred plants
- path of the flesh
- ordeal path
- path of the horse
The authentic shaman might be in a situation where he already experience yoga, tantra, non duality: - path of the breath is connected to pranayama
- path of the sacred plants is connected to ayurveda
- path of the flesh is connected to left hand tantra
- shaman sickness is connected ego dissolution experience and non duality
- …
Albert
Hey, Shanti, thank you, for sharing your experience with self-inquiry: It sounds as though you have brought the the U to the A (AUM); or the dream state to your conscious awareness (are you aware of this? 
). It seems that you’re witnessing Taijasa:
Hi Louis,
Interesting questions, we all have different perspectives so not sure there is any answer here. From my perspective, I see my thoughts as objects with a magnetic charge. The strength of the charge is related to the amount of emotional energy stored in the thought. The more the energy, the more capable the thought is in attracting attention to be absorbed, sometimes even when we rather it didn’t!
So from my perspective, there is awareness, thoughts float into it, if they possess a strong enough emotional charge, I can become absorbed in them and experience them visually like a mini-dream. Otherwise, there can be long periods of silence, which allows the direct experience of life without commentary through the senses. With less distraction into thoughts, (thoughts are still there, just not powerful enough to attract attention into becoming absorbed into them), more light pervades the mind, peace, good feelings etc.
These days, just 1 thought of a reality that I don’t want to see manifest, is enough to create intense emotional suffering if it goes unaddressed. I notice that the thoughts that make me suffer seem to have content about something I don’t want to see happen, a potential future that I would rather not experience. Once I realize that the potential future is either not true (not actual reality now) or not necessarily as negative as I fear, the emotional content diminishes enough for the offending thought(s) to now float on and no longer absorb my attention, leaving my attention free to rest in silence.
I find that the AYP practices move us slowly out of our minds and into our hearts and senses. The practices help release energy from thoughts until the point where they are no longer charged enough to pull attention away from here and now. This energy comes to pervade the here and now, enlivening the direct experience of inner silence and making our experience of life more vivid and illuminated.
Interesting experience EMC, sounds like a jump from knowing it second-hand mentally (like a good idea) to knowing it intimately through direct experience.
I see it this way too, I don’t believe my thoughts, I’d rather know what will happen through the direct experience of reality when it actually happens rather than through the subjective guessing game of the mind. I had a funny experience the other day of discounting an opinion contained in my thoughts like it came from someone else. I literally said something to myself along the lines of “think whatever you want it doesn’t matter or affect what I’m going to do here”.
The catch for me here was to not resent my mind, however subtly, nor to oppose the thoughts I don’t like. Embrace them all, mind is only doing it’s job to think of all possibilities. All possibilities are equally good, though that may be hard to see sometimes without knowing the future. Most of all, the reality we experience right now is perfectly designed to bring about whatever we need for our highest good, or at least so I believe.
Anthem, it was truly a leap into direct experience! Thank you for a very nice post!
This resonates with me! What is the effect on the thinking mind when you do that? Mine acts like a disappointed child, gets grumpy and turns away, knowing it has “lost” the game, and has no power left and as a result gets more silent.
Albert, Thank you for adding info on shamanism. That is also an area I have come in contact with and it’s interesting to see similarities described the way you present it!