Thanks for sharing that video Christi, I really enjoyed it. /
Love!
Great video Christi - many thanks 
Hi Lily,
Perhaps you are feeling angry because you value your life, and because you paid more money than you know you should have. And now perhaps you are trying to ‘forgive’, but really just trying to find a way to cut off your own self-preservation instinct without rocking the boat.
I struggle with this all the time.
How about explaining your position and asking them for the money. Is there any harm to that?
This is not in opposition to ‘forgiveness’, but it is giving healthy respect to yourself and the money you earned through your own work.
Humbly offering this perspective to you.
Jack
Hi Jack–I think you’re absolutely right and fully agree with you. The only issue is that eventhough I forgave the folks I think I haven’t fully because even the thought of seeing and talking to them on any subject fills me with repulsion. So I am relieved to have gotten rid of them and don’t want to talk to them any more as if I do I will get angry again… 
You could always take them to court. If we’re talking about a significant amount of money that would certainly be my reaction.
Hi CWL-it’s a lot of money but my main problem is not this money itself–it won’t make or break me–it’s the inability to forgive in this case and others, regurgitating resentment and holding grudge(s). Taking them to court will probably not resolve this…
Hi Christi, like the vid–kept getting distracted by thinking Adyashanti looks gay 
. The issue with stuff like that is that I keep nodding and feeling good while the video is running but when it ends I often go back to old patterns of thinking. 
Hi Lili
I take it by “gay” you mean happy.
I’d say that’s not really forgiveness at all! That sounds more like continued hatred and loathing.
I think the real question is, why did the experience upset you? I think you touched on it above, when you said that you are holding a grudge against yourself.
For you to have become upset about what happened, you must have been holding onto an image about yourself. You must believe that you are not the sort of person who would be cheated. That you are too smart for that, you are a good judge of character and so on… If you held the image that you are the sort of person who is easily cheated, and then you are cheated, it is no problem, just a happy confirmation of what you already knew.
So you are not that sort of person. You are smart, a good judge of people. And then something like this happens, and it shatters your image. You find out that you are not the sort of person you wanted to believe you were. This is why what happened is perfect. It is perfect because it shows you exactly what you are not. It shatters your image, and it shatters it perfectly.
Then of course there is the anger, resentment, judging and all the rest. But that is not the important thing. What is important is that there was an image, and an attachment to that image. And that was undermined in that moment with all the suffering which is caused by attachment.
So the question is, can you see this whole movement of the mind? Can you see that you had built up an image, and that this event undermined it? The seeing of the image, and the letting go of that image is forgiveness. Then there would not be any more hatred, because the hatred is a projection of attachment to the unreal.
Christi
Hi Christi–I think you are right to say that I haven’t forgiven these folks. I think I am not angry and unforgiving because I thought I was proven to not be a good judge of character–I don’t care too much how good I am at judging people but because I actually got these people on the job to help them, and they took advantage. So my continued indignation etc is not due to the fact that I misjudged them, and not even so much for the money itself, but because I think they are mean–if that makes sense 
.
Hi Lili
That makes sense. I think your statement of “I think they are mean” is a perfect opportunity to do Byron Katie’s “The Work.” It gives you an opportunity to inquire into how believing that these people are mean makes you feel. I would say that it is pretty obvious that believing that these people are mean (and that they shouldn’t be) causes you to suffer. So in essence, you are allowing yourself to suffer because you believe something that argues with reality. These people could very well be “mean people.” It doesn’t really matter though. Whether they actually are, or are not, you believe they are. And you believe they shouldn’t be. If you can let go of the thought that “these people shouldn’t be mean,” then these people are just seen as “mean people,” and that is known to be reality. The more you try to change reality, the more you will suffer. You can’t change these people into kind, compassionate people. They are how they are. And it doesn’t really matter how we label them. They just are how they are. If you can let go of wanting them to be different, then the suffering is going to drop away.
These people probably haven’t given a second thought to this situation and probably have continued on with their lives. But you are still holding onto it and suffering over it. Nothing you can do about what has happened in the past other then letting go of it and continuing on with your life. There really is no point to suffering over the way things could have or should have been.
Love!
Hi Carson, I agree with everything you say and used BK a lot for this situation and others. The only issue is that it goes like I run one statement through, calm down and forget all about it for a while then e.g. next day it reappears in a slightly different (or sometimes even the same 
) form. Not sure how to get better at it. Thanks&Cheers, Lili
Lili - you could try one of BK’s ‘judge your neighbour’ worksheets, and do the Work on every single statement. It may take a while, but it seems like there’s some gold in them there hills for you on this issue, so might be worth a shot
Here’s a link to the website where you can download the worksheet pdf (for free)
http://www.thework.com/thework-jyn.php
I always like what BK said about the judge your neighbour process - ‘this is the moment your ego has been waiting for’ So let rip!
Best of luck.
Hi Christi–I think you are right to say that I haven’t forgiven these folks. I think I am not angry and unforgiving because I thought I was proven to not be a good judge of character–I don’t care too much how good I am at judging people but because I actually got these people on the job to help them, and they took advantage. So my continued indignation etc is not due to the fact that I misjudged them, and not even so much for the money itself, but because I think they are mean–if that makes sense .
Hi Lili, No that doesn't make sense to me. So you have found out that your friends are mean, they are cheaters ,and they cheated you. But you are unable to forgive them. If you were holding onto nothing, had nothing to defend, you could forgive them, and let the matter go in stillness, and give them both big hugs next time you see them (because that's what they really need, yes?). So I will still ask the same question, what are you holding onto? (You can ignore my questions if you want). :slight_smile:
Hi Amoux, you’re the third person who quotes BK after Shanti and Carson so I think I will print out some neighbor sheets tomorrow . Cheers, Lili
Hi Christi, good question. I guess this incident triggers a ‘string’ of related negative thoughts such as ‘I might keep getting cheated’, ‘it’s not a safe situation to be in’ etc etc which generates fear which I connect to these folks which is why I am not able to give them any hugs just yet but instead want to forget all about them like 
Hi Lili,
Thanks for staying with this inqury.
I think that is a crucial next step… to move from blame: “It was them, they did it to me”, and coming to the first person singular: “I might keep getting cheated”, “I’m afraid of losing money/ material objects etc.”
So if you are doing the Byron Katie Work, the first statement would go something like:
“My friends shouldn’t cheat me, they should not be mean. Is that true?”. And you can do the Work on that…
And then the second statement, could be:
"I must not lose everything I have. Is that true?
The first statement is kind of surface stuff… when you do the turn around, it results in : “My friends should cheat me, they should be mean”. Which isn’t that obvious. As I understand it, for Byron Katie it just means that in that moment, your friends should be just the way they are, because that is how they are. So it’s a starting point, accepting what happened.
I think the second statement is potentially a lot more useful. It gets more to the heart of things, which is our fear of losing what we have. Which is, of course, a universal fear.
As I see it, again, if you were holding on to nothing, then you would have no fear of being cheated out of anything, and no fear of losing what you have. Then your friends would not trigger any fear process in you and you could forgive them and give them both big hugs.
So for me, I would ask the same question again… “what is it that you are holding onto?”.
And please don’t answer if you don’t want to.
Christi
Hi there Lili/ Christi,
Great post from Christi, I would only add that Byron Katie would likely suggest dealing with the statements one at a time.
So instead of doing “the work” on “My friends shouldn’t cheat me, they should not be mean”. Is that true?" it would be easier to divide that one into two and to do them one at a time.
For example, “My friends shouldn’t cheat me”?
1-Is it true
2- Is it absolutely true?
etc.
Then do “my friends should not be mean”
1- is it true
2- Is it absolutely true
etc.
This makes it easier to do the work successfully and avoids confusion.
Best of luck!
Hi Christi–I think I will try your system on the weekend when I have more time available. I think the answer is that I am holding on to everything (including my grudge ) but if I get a deeper more meaningful answer I will post it here. Thanks&Cheers,Lili
BK doesn’t always put things quite that way.
Sometimes you have to look inside and realise who is doing the cheating and who the betraying.
This is like training practise. Over and over you get the chance to stop cheating and betraying yourself because external events reflect the internal situation.
You feel betrayed because you didn’t take the action which would have liberated you from the way you feel.
This allows for at least two courses of action:
- You get a little tougher and begin to assert yourself in your
world. You betray yourself by not putting this into practise,
the painters simply make that obvious. They are no more than
puppets without any personal intentions. You should thank them
for showing you this. - You can accept the situation in which case you will not feel any
more betrayal than a tree feels when it loses it’s leaves.
Neither is better than the other as a resolution, but both are better than feeling sorry for yourself which is in itself worthless.
Meditating, getting some inner silence, allows you to understand this. You can act without really acting. You can demand something without personal involvement or wave something away like smoke in breeze.
Forgiving is a strange philosophy that is difficult to do without some silence already present, ortherwise it feels like weakness. This is when you realise there is no one to forgive but yourself.
So, do that, forgive yourself and get to like who you are.
Thanks Karl–I find it a bit hard to forgive myself. Cheers, Lili