I am referring to the new video of Tristan at youtube. I have to say that I am not sure about it. Yes, effective spiritual practises are important but I think that it is more important what and how we do things in the time between the practises. In other words, it´s very important to live our dharma.
I have all elements expect a structured non-dual practise, yet, what Tristan says. I do spinal breathing, deep meditation, samyama… but something is missing.
When I am living my dharma/doing service or just things which are in alignement I am opening up much faster than when not. Actually, the opposite is happening when I am doing ´wrong´ things.
So, my question is how important is living our dharma? With dharma I mean the most evolutionary flow of life … for me it would be helping my friends with meditation! This opens me up very fast. My work for example I am just doing bc I have to. This is closing me a lot. So, I can do practises how I want, when I don´t live my dharma then samadhi won´t enter my daily life. At least, it feels like this!!!
Moderator note: The video being referred to in this topic is on YouTube here
I have yet to listen to Tristan’s video but if I may comment - from my observations, service to others through work or teaching others meditation like you mention is a “giving away” and it stabilizes what you have cultivated through practices. It brings joy and creates room for further openings, yes. But I would list this as effect, albeit an important one, rather than cause. But then Yogani does say that cause and effect are looped in perpetuity until it is no longer clear what is cause and what is effect. Cause impacts effect and effect cause.
If I desired for an apple to fall from a tree, I would shake the branch, then the apple would fall. Now, was the shaking of the branch the cause of the apple falling, or was it the initial desire for the apple that caused the shaking of the branch? The shaking of the branch is really both a cause of the falling apple and an effect of the initial desire.
So really any effect can be alternatively viewed as a cause also.
This makes me think of what Buddha said about being wary about ‘fixed views’, it is why attaching oneself to opinions is ultimately pointless.
Hello,
For me, too, it has always been and remains very important to follow my own path. Based on my own experiences so far, I would say that the transitions from wandering aimlessly through the world to a desire for spiritual development, and on to spiritual practice, are definitely milestones. And that, over long stretches of the journey, these practices catalyse inner opennenings. But I have also found that bending oneself out of shape or ‘living in someone else’s Dharma’ can block the opening of the heart. Simply being an individualist, however, seems to guarantee little progress if that does not mean practising.
I understand your concerns, but In my experience practice is ‘as’ important as daily life, as what we can learn in practice, and the silence that we cultivate is what actually informs ‘what and how’ we do things in daily life.
It probably just isn’t necessary to make a judgement on which is more or less important. I think instead it is more relevant to find balance in each part, as both are an important part of the spiritual equation.
I think it can be helpful to inquire into whether there is actually a fastest path to liberation - and in the absolute sense there is most likely no meaning to this. Maybe this is why teachers such as Krishnamurti have been critical of structured practice? Our practice should not be something that makes us rigid-minded or something to cling to, but something that opens us up to life (our dharma).
I also think that there is a right time and right place for things, and that in the end, spiritual practice is no exception to that.
At the same time, it doesn’t mean that Tristan’s video is not a helpful video. It is important to sit down to do sitting practices - otherwise you won’t have an intuitive understanding of any of this. So, if someone wants to get to liberation, it’s most useful to get them to sit down to practice and see things for themselves.
Both Tristan and Yogani have talked about this topic in some places, for example Lesson 84 gives some perspective on it.
One of the reasons I made the video was because of people like Jiddu Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti rejected structured practice, and as a result, went through years of pain. These days there are many who are following teachers like Krishnamurti and who are also going through years of pain as a result. The structured practice exists for a reason - to prepare the body, regulate the speed of awakening to safe levels, and so on.
Maybe I should have called the video “What is the fastest path to spiritual liberation whilst avoiding pain on the journey”? I didn’t call it that, because I just assumed people would want to avoid going through pain!
I can’t prove that Krishnamurti’s own journey would have been faster if it had been based on structured practice and had been pain free, but my experience is that people who are generally not in pain, make faster progress on the path.
What Krishnamurti did was probably learn to meditate whilst in the theosophical society, cultivating inner silence, then drop meditation in favour of ‘self enquiry’ as inner silence grew. He clearly just forgot about what it was like to have very little inner silence.
I’m not saying that what he was saying wasn’t correct in a sense, it’s just not very useful to most people. His journey sounds similar to most highly evolved beings.
Krishnamurti is one of those teachers who people put on a pedestal, but I don’t believe the hype. Until someone literally arrives on planet earth levitating, surrounded by angels playing electric guitars, the ‘world teacher’, ‘guru of gurus’, ‘avatar’ idea just doesn’t wash with me.
So, if someone like Krishnamurti deliberately avoids structured spiritual practices, then they can experience pain because of that, due to the energetic channels in the body not being prepared for the energies involved.
That does not mean that there are not also other causes of pain and suffering.There are, and others can also suffer. But painful experiences are much less likely to happen if structured practices are used.
Someone using structured practices may be especially sensitive to spiritual practices and experience pain. Or, someone may not self-pace their practices properly and experience pain.
When I ask 100 persons why I suffer I get 100 different answers. Some say it is because I don´t self pace accordingly…others say it is the lack of sex/women in my life…than there are people who say I have to live in another city/country…others say I don´t do enough sport/fitness….not the right job…not expressing my soul enough…and so on and on and on.
The point is that depression/suffering is there with spiritual practises and without. There is suffering at the sea…there is depression by people who do fitness…even there is suffering when people live their dharma.
Maybe the suffering (pain) is part of life…and only after decades of meditating it´s realistic to avoid suffering.
I mean, God wants us to suffer. Of course, he wants us to have fun and joy, too. Doesn´t he want to experience everything?
God could not want you to suffer. It would not be possible as God does not even know that you exist. Don’t forget, you dreamed yourself up. God did not have anything to do with it.
As for suffering, yes everyone suffers, in all walks of life, except for those people who have transcended suffering altogether through spiritual practice.
However not everyone has to experience years of pain as a result of that spiritual practice. My comments regarding the importance of structured practice were about avoiding pain on the journey.
And yes, people with a structured spiritual practice can still experience pain at times, but if that pain is caused by their practices then they have a way of remedying that which is self-pacing and grounding.
If someone is suffering due to another reason such as long-term depression, or mental health issues, then self-pacing and grounding will probably not fix that. Then they would need to seek appropriate support. That is outside the scope of this forum.
