Hi Manigma 
Thank you for mentioning that. I usually use that formation during prayers…
I tried it just now and it does seem to work!
The interesting thing is that now my hands are tingling like they have an electic current going through them and they are quite itchy :0
TI
Hi TI, Christi & All,
Here’s an interesting article from RainbowBody.Net on Self, Heart, Yoga, how Ida and Pingala relate to Sushumna, and so on.
http://www.rainbowbody.net/HeartMind/netineti.htm
I felt the article offered some good and complementary information to some of the items being discussed in this thread, and so, I just wanted to pass it along.
Excerpt:
“This non-dual process in which all are kin is non-linear and non-dual BOTH/AND simultaneously like a non-dual pillar of light going up and down, neither up or down, left or right, in or out, neither both, but both/and.
In authentic yoga we are this non-dual pillar in the activated core/heart reached through the middle innermost central channel (within the sushumna). Energetically this occurs when the winds moving in the ida and pingala channels (nadis) are subtilized to the extent that they dissolve into the central channel (sushumna) and stilled (sunya) in samadhi (see yoga Sutra III.3). Here samsaric mental afflictions are dissolved
Thus we are not “just” the energy body and not just the physical body which is ever changing, temporary, and corporeal, but at the same our identity must include the form bodies (in the greater context) in each sacred eternal moment of non-dual being.
This is the salient point; i.e., that in all pervasive vast space, there is nothing excluded nor nothing that remains to be included. It is the Great Integrity – the Great Completion – the Mahamudra as the vast expanse where duality is merely a limited misperception. The orthodox scholar, dualist, and common man mistakes the expression to say that we are not the body, but the yogi takes it to say that we are all inclusive, the body, and the river, and the stars, the sacred mandala, divine creatrix, – not just one of these limited, isolated, separate, and false identifications.”
And
"In the true non-sectarian yogic tradition what is put an end to – what ceases, is ignorance. When the veil of ignorance is destroyed, then illumination shines forth. Conversely, the process of denying or limiting Reality as-it-is through ignoring what is, is avidya (ignorance). When we ignore something then we lose the big picture and wind up with distorted and biased views. One could just as well say that we are suffering from myopia or self deceit/delusion. When this confusion, delusion, ignorance or illusory bias is removed, then we see things as they are – Reality shines forth. This Reality in tantra and dzogchen/mahamudra is natural, uncontrived, and unconditioned. It is our natural state.
What has been removed is the past programming. The result is the profound synchronization of absolute and relative truth, shiva/shakti, right and left channels, pingala/ida, undifferentiated and differentiated consciousness and so forth.
It is not a denial of the temporal as if samsara were separate from nirvana, or that nirvana was not found in samsara, or that shiva was not inside shakti, and so forth simply affirming the eternal presence
Now abiding in sacred presence - the basis of true spirituality, there is no thing truly solid, separate, or substantial that can be said to exist by itself (independently).
Nor can that “something be said to exist (as it never existed separately in the first place. Neither can one say both, that it both truly exists and not exist, because there is no separate thing that can be spoken about. Nor can they be said to both not exist. Again in all these situations the reified separate object of existence, can not freely succeed as a referent or object to refer to.
This occurs when awareness and energy is synchronized in the deepest recess of the nondual central channel (the avadhuti, kun dar ma, or sushumna).”
And
“Rather the case is that undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) coincides with differentiated reality (pratityasamutpada or relative truth) in sacred presence. here both are acknowledged as well as linked in yoga. In monism however everything is confused with everything else. In other words it is quite different to say that only undifferentiated reality (absolute truth) exists and differentiated reality (relative or conventional truth) does not – either one or the other, rather in true non-duality both exist AND do not exist – neti/neti.
Existence, phenomena, things, and events appear to exist, appear to either arise or fall away, both, or neither, but all such referents are designators, indicators, or imputations toward nothing true, rather it arises from a limited arena of frozen time and contracted space. It is a very small part of the entire picture, like a distorted or occluded lens which obscures the vast hologram and primordial integrity which is rich beyond measure.
In truth there is no thing separate from the vast and all pervasive Primordial Mind. This is disclosed to the true seeker. What else can be known?
Once the true nature of the Mind is known, so is the true nature of nature also known in its timeless radiant and vibrant wonder.”
Basically, thinking mind is a distinction-making sense that confuses distinction with actuality; it would be as if eyes could think … they might think that distinctions of form; colors, light, etc. … were the only aspects that were real, the only details that were important, thereby missing the beautiful balance of holistic experiencing.
Centering in the Heart (in Sanskrit, the word for Heart is Hridayam … from the words Hrid - Center and Ayam - This; Heart is “the center of This”) … where objectivity ever dissolves into subjectivity, as subjectivity ever dissolves into objectivity … is the return to whole, inherently liberated, balanced reality.
Possibly the best illustration for this is of a man and a woman making love (hence its popularity as an illustrative symbol, in the tantric traditions) … who is making love to whom? The man to woman? Or the woman to the man? Probably more accurate to say that they are making love together, yes?
And so it is within all that appears as duality … and the ever-flowing, simultaneous mutuality of subjectivity-into-objectivity, and objectivity-into-subjectivity.
Am I really the awareness perceiving the objects? Or the objects being perceived by the awareness? Or somehow “both”/neither-yet-all?
As with lovemaking … in the perfect harmony of mutuality … it doesn’t exactly matter … and there’s far too much beauty in the actuality to feel the slightest concern about specifics; there’s just loving gratitude and celebration … in this beautiful place, now, where,as Meister Eckhart wrote “distinction never gazed.”
You know the place; it’s right here ---- at the very center — of this; Hridayam.
AUM Is Where The Heart Is.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
[quote=“Christi”]
Hi TI,
One way of thinking about the energy body (or the subtle nervous system) is as a body of divine light. The nadis are channels of divine light and the chakras are places where those channels cross each other. The energy body has certain features and characteristics and behaves in certain ways. Balancing the energy flows in the right and left nostrils will bring kundalini into the central channel. This happens because the energy flows are balanced in the ida and pingala nadis.
But purifying the sushumna nadi directly will also cause kundalini to flow into the central channel. When this happens the knots are loosened and the other nadis are illuminated from within.
So both schools of thought are right, they are just coming at the same end goal from different directions.
Balancing the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as awakening them. They will not be awakened until kundalini has entered the central channel and is radiating outwards from there as divine ecstasy. This is more of an effect of spiritual practice rather than a cause.
In my experience the balancing of the ida and pingala nadis is not the same as balancing the in-breath and the out-breath.
So really the whole process of spinal breathing pranayama boils down to ecstasy, because it is expanding ecstasy, which takes us onward towards our divine destiny. This would be my criteria for assessing if I am on the right track or not.
I think it may be more complicated than just balancing the in-breath and out-breath because, for example, you can do that and have one nostril partially plugged. It may be that both ida and pingala must be open and clear and that the in and out breaths have to be equal. Many times I’ve observed that before I fall asleep, my body goes into this routine where it breathes kind of rapidly, with no pause in between breaths. The body seems to be setting up the precursor stage to initiate sleep and that breathing routine seems to be part of that. Makes me wonder if some stages of sleep are not unlike dissolving winds in the central channel. But, yes, there is definately more to all of this than one can find written about it from the myriad of different sources.
Yes, I have read “The Secrets of Wilder”. Although I was kind of disturbed by the attempted rape scene and the gun incident, it was an interesting read. Despite it’s fictional undertones, it left me wanting to find a woman like Devi and practice even more yoga! The book would make a good movie especially if they had Keanu Reeves playing Wilder…
TI
Hi Kirtanman
Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate it.
The bolded parts really resonate with me because I had been spending a lot of time focusing on the heart chakra due to having read about Matrix Energetics where it explicitly states that the heart space is the key. (Always returning to the heart…)
I have/had been seeing the bright shiny diamond or lotus in the heart and had been gearing some meditations to opening and sensing the heart space! It is very nice to see a written confirmation of the heart-space pillar of light! This is all making more sense to me now. Perhaps combining the heart practices and Spinal Breathing brought this about…
and this too:
Really, I appreciate everything you’ve quoted. It is funny but that is what I’ve been thinking about lately… the two realities that appear separate but somehow exist in the same space… which is more real? What is this reality? I know returning to the world seems like coming into a dense dream now. I sure like the other space, it is very quiet there.
I keep re-reading your quotes and saying to myself, “yup” it is like that or “yes” that is how it appears… I think I’m getting stuck here in contemplation… better quit while I can still think…
Thanks again for shining your light on this subject… (pun intended)
TI
Quote:
If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?
You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.
These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth – and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv2/chapter09.html
Book of Secrets - Osho
Try not to forget this.
If you are in the waking state, and then you move into dreams, you cannot be either. If you are the waking state, then how can you dream? And if you are the dreaming state, how can you fall into sleep where there is no dream?
You must be a traveller, and these states must be stations, so you can move from here and there and come back again. Again in the morning you will move into the waking state.
These are states, and the one who moves within these states is you. But that you is the fourth – and that fourth is what you call the soul. That fourth is what you call divine, that fourth is what you call the immortal element, the life eternal.
http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv2/chapter09.html
Book of Secrets
Try not to forget this.
Hi Manigma, The post above is a direct quote from Osho. It will be easier for the readers if you put the quote in a different color or enclose them in [quote][/quote]. Also, it would be helpful if you posted a few words of your own,they can be as simple as, "maybe these lines from Osho will help" or can be a bit more detailed. This helps people reading understand why you posted the quote. Thanks. -AYP Moderators
Hi TI,
The only way to do it that I know of, is: Before you click “submit reply” first press ctrl and A at the same time, then press Ctrl and C at the same time. Then if the upload fails, you can click the back arrow, click in the relpy box and press Ctrl and V at the same time. Then your post will magically reappear again!
Does technology know no bounds?
Christi