aum
david, thank you! actually words pulled out of silence is a bit noisy before settling into the ‘flow’ though yet all is energy to dwell in.
gratitude everyone, for the wonderful posts here!
aum
Hi All:
Great discussion!
This post from this morning in the tantra forum might add some perspective on the celibate non-celibate discussion:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4225#35937
The suggestion is for each of us to go with a sexual lifestyle that is natural for us (one size does not fit all), and engage in an effective integration of daily yoga practices. Then we will have the best result, regardless of our chosen lifestyle.
Enlightenment cannot be regimented. It is a process of letting go which, paradoxically, is best accomplished through systematic means that are compatible with the life we are living. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
aum
so true yogani, wise sage! your insights are always profound!
aum
Hari Om
Hi david,divine sister nandhi and everybody.
I am sorry I am late
many swamijis and gurus have the same idea.
If u read the following book by swami sivananda completely u might be able to understand about brahmachrya.
http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahma_nopic.htm
I shall give one of story in this which express it very effectively:
2. Passion’s hold over man’s mind. Socrates and his disciple
One of the disciples of Socrates asked his teacher, “My venerable master, kindly instruct me how many times a householder can visit his legal wife.” Socrates replied, “Only once in his lifetime.”
The disciple said, “Oh my Lord! This is absolutely impossible for worldly men. Passion is dreadful and troublesome. This world is full of temptations and distractions. Householders have not a strong will to resist temptations. Their Indriyas are very revolting and powerful. The mind is filled with passion. Thou art a philosopher and Yogi. You can control. Pray, kindly prescribe an easy path for the men of the world.” Then Socrates said, " A householder can have copulation once in a year."
The disciple replied, “O venerable sir, this is also a hard job for them. You must prescribe an easier course.” Socrates then replied, “Well, my dear disciple, once in a month. This is suitable. This is quite easy. I think you are satisfied now.”
The disciple said, “This also is impossible, my revered master. Householders are very fickle-minded. Their minds are full of sexual Samskaras and Vasanas. They cannot remain even for a single day without sexual intercourse. You have no idea of their mentality.”
Then Socrates said, “Well said, my dear child. Do one thing now. Go directly to the burial ground now. Dig a grave and purchase a coffin and winding sheet for the corpse before hand. Now you can spoil yourself any number of times you like. This is my final advice to you.” This last advice pierced the heart of the disciple. He felt it keenly. He thought over the matter seriously and understood the importance and glory of Brahmacharya. He took to spiritual Sadhana in right earnest. He took a vow of strict unbroken celibacy for life. He became an Oordhvareta Yogi and had Self-realization. He became one of the favourite disciples of Socrates.
Please read the full book of brahmacharya by swami sivananda and please tell me u r opinion.and tell me if i was wrong.
and also i wanted to know that what makes u all feel that sex can be part of spiritual life 
can you show any thought of sex in the life(expect for the sake of children) of ramkrishna parmahamsa,swami vivekananda,
sri rama,hanumaan,sri krishna,jesus christ, and all those enlighted persons
and I always wanted to,liked to,tried in many ways to find the balance between sex and spiritual life.but i always failed.
And the most worst thing of sex is that I can,t pray god properly with same spirit,same energy,same bhakti,same purity and nothing is same after i mausterbate.
and for sex thoughts if one is indulged in sex thoughts how can he pray god.it might be possible that u may give some time for both of them i.e praying god at the times when required and enjoying sex thoughts at their times.but the mind is not purified completely untill these impure thoughts are out of it.and mind looses a lot of energy,creativty and much more in sex thoughts.
And this is greatest truth of all that “A person with great powers can only achive god, not merey dead bodies”
so become strong ,strength is the only way.
do everything to become strong.if that was not the reason god who loves us would have been easily achevied without any thing.
let us all know the truth,be with truth,live truth
truth is god.
jai shri krishna
aum
divine ranjan,
yes, to grow/mature/age into celibacy in a healthy way does enable yogic focus. far too many saints were celibates. however, all seekers need to grow to be whole and wholeness necessarily means, not negating sex and sensuality but instead growing beyond it.
yet most jump into celibacy based on belief systems and meet their downfall on the spiritual path thanks to the incompleteness of their evolution at the muladhara chakra.
if you wish to be celibate, do so. we celebrate your decision to be celibate or not celibate. if not a celibate as a vast majority of seekers are, then may the sexual union be as sacred as prayers- for only then can each facet of the human be surrendered to the essence of being spirit having the human experience and evolving to seek the more eternal joys above as the angelic human.
aum
Hari Om
Hi divine sister nandhi
I am glad to hear your oppinion.
and I am confident with my decision also.
but their is very great great problem.what i find in this life is that the toughest of toughest enemy the lust is very very hard to deal with.I have lost thousands of times with it but I am not able to go with it.so I am not still a brahmachari and i am striving like anything to become.and i am not going to live it let what ever happen.and i am confident that if i achive that everything is achived.
yes it is better to wait for the completeness of their evolution at the muladhara chakra.
follow brahmacharya correctly everything will be achieved very easily,everthing will complete for itself.and brahmacharya is toughest of all.u might be able to do anything else even the toughest of toughest works but acheiving brahmacharya is toughest of all.so what u say is correct
with brahmacharya only can completeness come
Jai shri Krishna
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
Hi David,
It could be, yes, but it wouldn’t necessarily be. At any given time we have a certain amount of knowledge, and a number of beliefs: things that we believe may be true but which we do not know are true. And this combination of knowledge and belief is what we call our education. As our experience expands two things happen simultaneously. Some of the things we previously held as belief, become knowledge, and at the same time, we become able to accept the possibility of other things being potentially true. In other words our beliefs expand. In a healthy individual this would happen in a logical way. So it could be progress for you to believe that the stars may in fact be Gods, and it could be progress for you to “see” that the stars are in fact Gods. It would very much depend on whether it was happening as a natural effect of your expanding consciousness and ever rising enlightenment, or not.
Christi
divine ranjan, your above statement is like christ quoted to have said, ‘i am the only way’ or any other belief systems with ego playing rampant.
all of human is divine. brahmacharya helps in our journey towards light due to the focus it gives but surely, making physical love did not make a realized master less potent in wisdom.
its pointless to continue to impose what might be right for ourselves on others. celebrate your celibacy if it helps you!
aum
When I read ranjan I can’t but agree. Sex is not the way, never has been, never will be. It’s just that sex is not about the actual physical act of making love between man and woman. This is where confusion begins around this topic. There’s absolutely nothing wrong in making love - the problem arises, just as ranjan describes, when ego comes in and claims ownership of the pleasure! Sex is in the identification with the person. Sex is ego WANTING. Sex is mind. Lovemaking is God celebrating in manifestation.
Barry Long describes the difference in a beatiful way here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1e3xJY9sg
aum
emc, good to see you!
an observation of your video link- brahmacharya does not include the ‘lovemaking’ barry long speaks eloquently about.
love in its pure states, beyond the five senses, as eternal energies is good in all forms and barry’s talk is in this sense, though inclusive to physical.
aum
You are right, nandhi, the traditional brahmacharya=celibacy is not includedin Barry’s video. He speaks about physical love making and is pointing out the differences of doing the physical act from a point of the sexual mind or from a point of silence/stillness/love/selflessness.
I just see that ranjan is giving an excellent description of how the sexual mind works, what happens when we engage in “sex thoughts”! That’s what sex is - thoughts! And the prison of thoughts is what we want to get out of, right? So all thoughts concerning sex is a part of what’s keeping us in our mind-prison. Sex is one of the strongest forces that can drag us from stillness into mind and thoughts again! I guess that’s why celibacy has been so promoted! It doesn’t matter which sexual life style we choose… it’s the sexual mind that is the “problem” - as all mind activity is the “problem” for reaching higher realms.
But there are other ways of approaching the physical act of lovemaking, and that is the tantric way. To approach it consciously, with awareness, in a meditative state, is a way to practice how to be physical without going into mind. I myself am for that approach.
I just can’t help seeing that every description ranjan does makes SO MUCH SENSE to me, from my perspective!
aum
its all beautiful! angels making love not sex!
aum
jesus was probly the “SUN” not the SON haha
all humans have the potential to be suns.
angels have a sex.
but reverse the sun and moon, and their you have immortality.
and yes, making love, is a much better way to say it.
for that is creation of spirits threw the act, as the other is the degration of them.
Exactly! How can angels NOT make love, when the whole universe is constantly making love all the time? It’s an overflow of sensuality and ecstacy all over the place… Gosh!
Hi All:
So how do we reconcile all these points of view about sex versus no sex, and attachment versus no attachment?
I don’t think it can ever be all one way or the other. And neither can we construct it in our mind as such. It is not possible to free ourselves by replacing one mental structure (or obsession) with another one.
From the AYP point of view, we cultivate inner silence in deep meditation, and the whole thing begins to loosen up in stillness. All of our perceptions and notions about things gradually become less rigid and we find that clinging to new mental structures is not needed to dissolve old mental structures – indeed, that cannot work. Instead, we find ourselves more able to let go into our rising inner silence, and that is the dissolving of attachment to objects – our thoughts and obsessions about sex (or no sex), and everything else.
It does not happen overnight. It is a gradual development, and it is not reasonable to expect anyone to change instantly from one point of view or lifestyle to another one. That goes for the divine transformation of sexual energy, and for our realization that we are the infinite sea of non-duality (no-thing-ness) that we happen to be swimming in at this very moment.
In AYP we take it gradually, and it all comes in good time with daily practices. When it comes to sex, the methods of yoga and tantra are conducive to this gradual transformation, and able to serve us wherever we may be on the path.
That is why in AYP we do not define brahmacharya as celibacy. The literal translation of “brahmacharya” is “walking in Brahma, the infinite creative stillness of God.” There is nothing in this that says sex is bad, though some may insist on making it mean that, at their own peril, and at the peril of those they may be able to indoctrinate likewise.
Rather than go down the sectarian road of insisting on the same lifestyle for everyone, in AYP we identify the working principle of brahmacharya as the preservation and cultivation of sexual energy. This view of brahmacharya opens the door to all lifestyles and to all the tools of yoga and tantra, and there is no conflict. Everyone can walk in Brahma in their own time and in their own way. Favoring the preservation and cultivation of sexual energy with appropriate means can suit the celibate, the heterosexual, and the homosexual.
And guess what? It works, as many here can attest.
I greatly admire the life and teachings of Sivananda, but his views on sex are very narrow, and suitable mainly for those inclined toward an ascetic lifestyle. This is fine, but it is not a valid teaching for the broad population, who, with effective means available, have equal access to enlightenment.
And the angels? Well, I think they have other things on their non-minds. They are surely laughing angel-laughs about our obsession with these things, even as they are wishing to come join us in physical form, so they too can have the opportunity to evolve that we have. Mortality is a great motivator of spiritual progress. Don’t we know it? So let’s not waste a minute.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
love that you mention mortality being the great motivator to spiritual progress. knowing death to know the immortal angelic being of spirit. knowing death to know bounds of time. knowing death to be spirit that which creates human realities to evolve.
when the spirit as being is the experience to know our daily human reality that is here for a purpose, each minute is the magical moment that is expansive and angelic. angelic in knowing love as experience and reality in simply “being”. angelic as grace received. angelic as being the oneness.
all in the dance of love as the yogic journey! cheers yogani!
joys shared by each as angelic reality!
aum
wanted to start another parallel thread within this thread, if thats ok
Christi,
What do you mean by ‘Jesus is/was son of God’ ?.
I was thinking he was just another enlightened being just like krishna, buddha and others.
Hi Shushman,
Sorry, I missed this post for some reason. And I’m glad you asked… it’s a really good question!
As I see it there are various stages of enlightenment. The first stage of enlightenment is when the egoic consciousness is transcended. Living in this condition, an enlightened person will experience unity consciousness, and will be living in a permanent state of bliss. Such a person is capable of transmitting divine energy, and is conscious of themselves as an immortal soul, not constrained by the material universe.
But enlightenment is not the end of the spiritual journey, and there are levels of development beyond this. Gradually the divine body is developed, which is a body made up of supernal light. Jesus showed this body to some of his disciples in a scene in the bible referred to as the transfiguration. It was recorded in 3 of the gospels. The consciousness is raised further, from the level of universal consciousness to the level of cosmic consciousness or “Christ consciousness”. Such a person is able to transcend death and resurrect themselves in a body of divine glory (the Resurrection). They are able to ascend and descend at will through the worlds of supernal light.
It is basically a pretty high stage to reach. This is what is meant by “Son of God”. In the bible Jesus said: “Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall become Sons of God” which refers to his belief that we are all capable of attaining this state of consciousness. Someone at this level becomes a co-creator with God. In other words their soul is operating at the level of the causal realm. They would experience themselves as being one with God, which is why Jesus said “I and my father are one”.
This is not the highest stage of development possible for a human being, but it’s not bad.
Christi
Hi Christi,
Love your contributions to this forum!
I don’t understand the last sentence of yours below though.
If you could elaborate on what you think the highest stage of development possible for a human being is, I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance for all future contributions…