Christi said:
Of course, this is something I am guilty of, and something we are all guilty of from time to time. Many statements that Yogani makes could be considered fantastic for a lot of people and he could have prefixed them with the words “I believe”. Usually he chooses not to. As you mention, Ekhart Tolle often omits these words as well. In fact, many of the statements that you make as statements of fact, are actually simply your own beliefs, but you also usually omit the words “I believe” as well 
Well, what can I say? Yes. There are degrees of this, and I’m sure I’m guilty of the same thing myself at times. I would also say that Eckhart Tolle walks quite a bit further out in the domain of the controversial (without the ‘I believe’) than Yogani does.
EMC, I don’t agree with you if you’re saying all beliefs are equally fine and good. You can imagine where that can go…
If a blind man were to say to you “you cannot proove to me that there are stars in the sky, therefor do not speak about them as if they are real” what would you reply?
There are the experiences and the interpretations of them, and a lot happens in between. If the blind man can’t even allow that having an experience of seeing points of light in the dark sky exists as an experience, then we are lost in taking him further. If he recognizes the experiences and has alternative explanations, the situation is different, and we should be able to consider his alternative explanations.
Another question is if someone can see stars in the sky but calls them gods, what do we say to him?
if it makes him happy and closer to his god or gods then i’d tell him go for it be happy.
this is a saying that i’m really affected by, it’s one of Rama krishna’s and there was a similar one like it in the past for a suffi named ben mansour el hallaj:
all roads (religions, beliefs…) lead to god and if there was anything wrong in one of them then God himself will intervene to change that wrong if the person’s heart (faith,love, devotion…) is true and faithful.
plus there’s another suffi saying for Ibn Aarabi who was kind of a bit very textual concerning his islamic faith b4 he practiced suffism:
“love has made my heart a monk’s sanctuary and a pagans temple…” this is a clear sign of that outporing divine love that yogani speaks of :).
namaste
Ananda
if it makes him happy and closer to his god or gods then i’d tell him go for it be happy.
I agree. Let him just say ‘I believe’ though when he knows he’s in the domain of controversy.
All beliefs stem from the mind. We are here to transcend all beliefs - good and bad! We are here to see through our minds as total fake constructions currently present only to create the veil covering clear sight of what’s Real. Mind stuff - no matter how intelligent and useful for this existence (yes, I don’t deny some of it is useful) - is still… mind stuff. And we are more than that. Much more. If we see the mind as a bowl containing both intellect, will, thoughts, and emotions… we are none of that. We are consciousness who is both intellect, will, thoughts, emotions, the bowl itself, the space inside the bowl and the space outside the bowl. What does it matter if one of those small beliefs in the bowl pops up and eagerly holds up a placard that says “Christ was born from a virgin.” or “Angels exist but they don’t mate!” or “We should always be careful to say ‘I believe’ when we speak”? When beliefs become like objects in the space of consciousness, they don’t bother us anylonger. Not my beliefs, not yours, not the way you put your boxes inside (what you believe to be) your mind to understand the Universe, not the way I put them. Truth is then known directly. And that’s what really matters.
And… to forestall the counter argument of passivity… No - the beliefs although not bothering us will not make us passive. Stillness is ACTION, so we will most certainly do what’s supporting evolution on the planet, thus what you may call “bad beliefs” will probably not stand unanswered! But it will be answered with love - not moral annoncements of what’s right and wrong, good or bad. It will probably be answered with something like… “Is that really true?” 
(I know you love that one, David! And I love bouncing that question back and forth, back and forth, cause there will always lurk around some belief that I REALLY think is correct and it’s so wonderful when it looses its grip and gives me freedom…)
Even to say “everything is scenery” is an interpretation. There are some scenery that is changing me in some profound way. I don’t consider those things to be JUST anything. Those experiences are the whole point of our traversing this thing called the Path. (my opinion) If it is all just this or just that, then it is no different than going to the bar and getting drunk. But we know there is a difference. (my opinion) It is a subjective thing I know so bear with me.
I used to read about the Eightfold Path and thought it sounded a lot like “first you get Enlightened and then you get Enlightened,” a sort of logic error called begging the question. And yet it seems to be true. (my opinion) There has to be a glimpse of That before we can see the Truth. Where does that glimpse arise? I would say it is Grace or something built into the Universe which longs for us to get it. It is all a mystery to me. 
A lovely mystery.
Love to all,
Jill
Hi ananda,
I am very much interested in learning or experiencing these things (just as a proof to myself that there are such things and/or I can also do it). Can you post the link to the website here? Is there an english version of the website (or any such website)?
- Near
There are no english links, it’s in and we might have a lot of problems concerning the translations plus i’m not pro this stuff and don’t courage people to take part in such activities.
kind regards,
Ananda
Hi Shankar,
It is good to have some Greek and Aramaic speakers amongst us!. Of course, Mary could have meant: “How can I be pregnant, I am a young woman”. She was 12 or 13 at the time she became pregnant with Jesus, and unmarried. One thing is for sure, and that is that the angel would have known what she meant, as angels are psychic, so human languages don’t confuse them.
Now, if she had meant, “How can I be pregnant, I am a young woman” surely the angel would have replied: “actually, you are old enough to be ovulating, and you have been engaging in pre-marital sex, so it is quite possible for you to be pregnant”. Angels are quite honest. But what he said was different, he said “Anything is possible for God”, which would make sense with the “virgin” interpretation, but not with the “young woman” interpretation. Then the next thing he says would also be a bit bemusing in the “young woman” context:
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. "
That would simply have no meaning if Mary was already pregnant through conventional sex with a human. Why would the one to be born be called the Son of God? The “Sons of God” are the offspring of angels.
Christi
It is good to have some Greek and Aramaic speakers amongst us!. Of course, Mary could have meant: “How can I be pregnant, I am a young woman”. She was 12 or 13 at the time she became pregnant with Jesus, and unmarried. One thing is for sure, and that is that the angel would have known what she meant, as angels are psychic, so human languages don’t confuse them.
Now, if she had meant, “How can I be pregnant, I am a young woman” surely the angel would have replied: “actually, you are old enough to be ovulating, and you have been engaging in pre-marital sex, so it is quite possible for you to be pregnant”. Angels are quite honest. But what he said was different, he said “Anything is possible for God”, which would make sense with the “virgin” interpretation, but not with the “young woman” interpretation. Then the next thing he says would also be a bit bemusing in the “young woman” context:
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. "
That would simply have no meaning if Mary was already pregnant through conventional sex with a human. Why would the one to be born be called the Son of God? The “Sons of God” are the offspring of angels.
Christi
The answer to all the questions is pretty simple: The angel didn`t say the things she should have said, because it would have thrown the whole purpose of the narrative out of kilter i.e. to create the mythology of the virgin birth :grin: Amen!
aum
gratitude for the amazing insights each of you brought forward!
just little thoughts that came up on reading this post-
- in the bible, nandhi’s most admired person after christ, is joseph. imagine in those days- loved one pregnant and having to totally believe the angel did it; finding unconditional love for mary; having to find 3 dimensional acceptance of the divine and especially to handle society’s perceptions!?
- what if the higher evolved being that we call ‘angels’ are dolphins and whales that live by resonance, the essence within the mantra energies of tapas?
- what if ‘angelic’ ethereal beings enjoy the orgasmic joys of human since joy states embody the divine and the few moments we are open to subtle energies are when we have sex, when we meditate, while we sleep or sometimes, as we eat?
- if the breakdown of matter is vibration, the living as in vibration and the spirit world too are a threshold of vibration- though different in realms- the union of each in their own levels or the intermingling of each realm is ‘sex’ or ‘love’ or ‘fusion’ or simply seeds to another reality?
just little silly thoughts as ‘angels making love!’ sparks insights of grand unions of greater reality beyond perception.
aum
Hari Om
Please check the link below it might be useful.It is by famous guru swami sivananda
http://www.yoga-age.com/modern/brahma.html
&
http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/brahmacharya.htm
Jai Shri Krishna
aum
divine brother ranjan and all the sacred beings here enjoying the human experience!
your insistence on celebrating celibacy as thoughts based on the sacred writings of great swami sivananda at the moment of flow of so many yogic being’s thoughts as in this topic is too a blessing- join the divine conversations.
event to utter swamy sivananda’s name brings blessings!
swamy sivananda and all yogis who thrive in joy to keep alight joy would wake up to purpose in a birth to fulfill the deepest desired need for humanity by being the human and purpose.
venerable sages like swami sivananda’s auspicious presence guides as all- above the navel.
beyond beliefs imposed by collective intellectual ego is the truth of whom we are and where we are and what is the experience of the ‘now’ that contains source joy that is light.
at the muladhara, the root chakra, is where 9999.9% of humanity climbing up to be be complete and in the maturity having grown above the navel like a ripe cucumber (the meaning and effects of the maha-moksha mantra).
in human karmic realities, the realm below the navel is good- being human and human responsibilities and completing the most sacred work inspired through the awake the muladhara fire. it is only in the completion of muladhara’s circle that we ripen above the navel to be celibate.
most aspiring to climb above without having completed the muladhara’s circle tumble above due to the weak foundation below.
below the navel is the muladhara, mahaganapathy’s grace. it is the muladhara’s realm where we adorn the senses to be guided as evolved.
blessings of each to each in this inner lamp. the lord of success dances here to be present when the five elements we are worshiped.
five element worship is lovemaking.
grace as that which awakens siddhis to the ‘human’ now be lord siva and utilize the human realities with absolute love- yes love making- make love within the inner fire to then recognize the mind as the horse, riding on each breath as with knowing and purpose. the breathless realm of the spirit the rider.
worship here honoring each other on planet earth as as goddesses and gods entails being satisfied at the muladhara chakra to be whole. as yogis we are the seedless desire taking form and letting the form be shrine and recognizing each other as the divine.
how many births we take to quench the muladhara imprints of karma laid by the the primary instinct?
above is the navel is the yogi, who has quenched the several life times thirst of the muladhara through knowing each facet of joy sacred and having burnt away the ripened mind.
what is the special lovemaking the yogi sages are doing immersed in a lamp fire for months, while being spirit alight in tapas in the human body?
we are the yogi/nis who enjoy the fruitfulness of the muladhara as angels making love and above the navel as spirit- the knower of human purpose- guided and as the hamsa, the sacred swan that guides the mind- gliding above while alighting each cell to thrive in the ascending yogic energies from the muladhara.
may the muladhara lamp be lit in each and the cosmic lovemaking be our each in experience of the fullest that completes. blessings of fulfillment that naturally evolves as divine in form too.
wholeness above, wholeness below. tantric celibate? celibate tantric?
gratitude to each of each!
blessings of wholeness!
aum
Note: the moderator’s edit adjusted format alone, not content.
Hari Om
divine brother ranjan .I feel very delightful by hearing this.
After reading swami shivananda book of bramhacharaya I understood that a man with perfect celibacy can only achive god,he only can become the man who can always be with god.because god & sex are opposite.
what I meant to say is sex for children is only accepted.All others viz. just even sex thinking, having sex, Masturbation, and what ever related to sex is not pure,and if it is not pure than where is love,where is god.
we can’t acheive both sex enjoyment(except having sex for the sake of children) and god(bakthi,purity,etc) as they are opposite.they never meet each other.
I also agree with u r thoghts.but why should we wait for the time to come.who what might happen by the time it comes,how many thousands of years it might take to reach that situation.
now I shall tell U my experince.when ever I would be in sex thoughts , have masturbation as it has become a habit unfortunately.(I very soory to say this .but to frank),because i came to know all about this recently .at this periods I can’t concentrate on god.we might be somehow be able to other things but cannot pray god properly that is with bhakti.but once i have come out of this sex circle we might call.
I feel very much indluged in bhakti and purity love emerges like anything.so I am trying very hard to get this enemy out of life and soul and what ever it is.
now I would like ask u a Question?don’t u feel that once the mind is comes in contact with just sex thoughts the bhakti starts evacuating as and once sex thoughts are out bhakti is very clear.U will have the power the energy the bhakti and the purity neverthebefore.
and also as sex is gretest, toughest enemy of all.only a pure bhaktha,pure yogi,pure jayni,pure karmayogi can only defeat.there is no one else in this whole world who can defeat it.lets not ignore this sex.let it be completly be destroyed from us.let us have only love,purity and bhakti.
I also agree with u that muladhara chakara must be completed.
but how long can u wait for all this to happen.A true bhaktha must never wait for anything.as ramakrishna parmahamsa said if call god with full force u can achive within secounds.see the life of sadhus,the gurus,the ones who have acived oneness with god.they all r perfect celebate.remember how bagwan budha did 12 yrs of tapasya with celebacy and he achived.all this is a matter of decreasing the time
.the time the very important one.to say truth i CAME TO THIS SITE FOR knowing Kecahri mUDRA.all this I knew by all u r conversation and information in this site is very vast .and thanks for all of u for helping me in this.
now what does this kechari mudra does it only reduces the time of salvation,reduces the time by great extent.but it can never be achived without brahmacharya.their is no match for this.
if u dont belive just u be perfect celebate for just one month invliving u r self in bhakti,jayana,vairagya,self service or just brahmacharya only.u must feel the difference.the difference will be that extent that u will always to be in that state itself.
I think u all will might understand my point on brahmachraya.
for my side I will never leave untill i become a pure brahmachari,urdvaretha yogi. i can’t wait anymore
I request all to imbible brahmacharya and become pure completely in bakthi.A true brahmachari can only imbibe krishna,jesus,allah,allmighty.their is no life in sex
Thanks for u r adivice on that divine sister Nandhini.
Jai shri krishna
Hi David,
I guess you have 2 choices. You could either say “I think you may be deluded, they don’t look like God’s to me”, or you could say: “please tell me what I could do so that I also can see that the stars in the sky are Gods”.
When does a fruit fall from a tree?
Christi
or you could say: “please tell me what I could do so that I also can see that the stars in the sky are Gods”.
LOL, the implication here being that it would be progress for me to ‘see’ that the stars in the sky are gods. But throwing away ones education is not progress. One might as well believe that the lampposts are gods.
Hari Om
divine brother ranjan .I feel very delightful by hearing this.
After reading swami shivananda book of bramhacharaya I understood that a man with perfect celibacy can only achive god,he only can become the man who can always be with god.because god & sex are opposite.
what I meant to say is sex for children is only accepted.All others viz. just even sex thinking, having sex, Masturbation, and what ever related to sex is not pure,and if it is not pure than where is love,where is god.
we can’t acheive both sex enjoyment(except having sex for the sake of children) and god(bakthi,purity,etc) as they are opposite.they never meet each other.
I also agree with u r thoghts.but why should we wait for the time to come.who what might happen by the time it comes,how many thousands of years it might take to reach that situation.
now I shall tell U my experince.when ever I would be in sex thoughts , have masturbation as it has become a habit unfortunately.(I very soory to say this .but to frank),because i came to know all about this recently .at this periods I can’t concentrate on god.we might be somehow be able to other things but cannot pray god properly that is with bhakti.but once i have come out of this sex circle we might call.
I feel very much indluged in bhakti and purity love emerges like anything.so I am trying very hard to get this enemy out of life and soul and what ever it is.
now I would like ask u a Question?don’t u feel that once the mind is comes in contact with just sex thoughts the bhakti starts evacuating as and once sex thoughts are out bhakti is very clear.U will have the power the energy the bhakti and the purity neverthebefore.
and also as sex is gretest, toughest enemy of all.only a pure bhaktha,pure yogi,pure jayni,pure karmayogi can only defeat.there is no one else in this whole world who can defeat it.lets not ignore this sex.let it be completly be destroyed from us.let us have only love,purity and bhakti.
I also agree with u that muladhara chakara must be completed.
but how long can u wait for all this to happen.A true bhaktha must never wait for anything.as ramakrishna parmahamsa said if call god with full force u can achive within secounds.see the life of sadhus,the gurus,the ones who have acived oneness with god.they all r perfect celebate.remember how bagwan budha did 12 yrs of tapasya with celebacy and he achived.all this is a matter of decreasing the time
.the time the very important one.to say truth i CAME TO THIS SITE FOR knowing Kecahri mUDRA.all this I knew by all u r conversation and information in this site is very vast .and thanks for all of u for helping me in this.
now what does this kechari mudra does it only reduces the time of salvation,reduces the time by great extent.but it can never be achived without brahmacharya.their is no match for this.
if u dont belive just u be perfect celebate for just one month invliving u r self in bhakti,jayana,vairagya,self service or just brahmacharya only.u must feel the difference.the difference will be that extent that u will always to be in that state itself.
I think u all will might understand my point on brahmachraya.
for my side I will never leave untill i become a pure brahmachari,urdvaretha yogi. i can’t wait anymore
I request all to imbible brahmacharya and become pure completely in bakthi.A true brahmachari can only imbibe krishna,jesus,allah,allmighty.their is no life in sex
Thanks for u r adivice on that divine sister Nandhini.
Jai shri krishna
divine ranjan- tantric celibate and celibate tantric: both ends are the experience of all prophets, saints, masters and the realized! aum
divine ranjan-
tantric celibate and celibate tantric: both ends are the experience of all prophets, saints, masters and the realized!
aum
Hari Om Divine sister nandhi I don't understand much about tantric celibate. but I know the one who does sex for sake of enjoyment and not for the sake of children is not a complete celibate.it may by doing it diferently it differ a bit or by large margin.but it cannot match to a perfect celibate. A perfect celibate is the one who dont have the sex attachment or sex thoughts in him completly. the gurus never had sex. only the gurus who had married had sex that to for the sake of children and not for enjoyment.so it is clear that having sex for enjoyment is very much incorrect. it not that sex is only wrong but even thinking of sex is wrong. see the life of swami vivekanada,sri ramkrishna paramhamsa hanumaan,sri rama,bagwan buddha,jesus christ,sharadha mata, mata amruthanandamai,bagwan bhahubali,shri krishna and many more where can u see the thoght of even sex in their life.that is why they have enlighted their life. sex is not life how ever modified.it is the thing to be omitted.that is the best of all. it might increase the standard of life by modifying the way of sex but it can never lead to the level of the enlighted one jai shri krishna jai shri Krishna
Ranjan said:
it not that sex is only wrong but even thinking of sex is wrong.
…
where can u see the thoght of even sex in their life.that is why they have enlighted their life.
sex is not life how ever modified.it is the thing to be omitted.that is the best of all. it might increase the standard of life by modifying the way of sex but it can never lead to the level of the enlighted one
Ranjan, I find myself in disagreement with you. Let me ask you this – what is the source of your thoughts about this? Have you examined the source deeply? Sometimes it is difficult to examine in clarity because deep feelings are not typically very conscious, and cultural conditioning not typically very conscious either.
So who or what told or tells you that even thinking of sex is wrong?
aum
divine ones, what a question?
a beautiful question!
if as seeds of the seedless
many ascend as brother ranjan to seek that above the navel with ease through bhakthi fire! journey ahead if you wish, if in the knowing you are ready to let go all into lord siva’s consuming fires after having lord visnu delivered through bhakti.
sacred bhakti! may all humanity be blessed by the fire of the celibates who take birth to awaken the angelic joys of the human.
bhakthi while making love to soulmate… relate sex with absolutes of love and love alone…in fulfilled relationships to then be parent.
divine children like lord krishna and christ and buddha and prophet mohammed were all born as children in this love.
be the proud parents of children- parents as father and mother in happiness through harmony that comes from the entwined muladhara.
sex is good. the apple of karma is consumed through love to enable the adam as thought surrendered to eve who has completed her tapas to want in the moment to be the now.
a lamp lit within each as couple and as the multitude, the five elements embracing!
single multiplies to be inner joys that is in perfect accordance of supreme harmony.
the one rule followed as the lamp lit each day. a sacred marriage to light. to alight this outer lamp at least once a day so the inner lamp condenses us into our true spirit being. the only rule that sets us free!
our daily tapas known through lighting this lamp that keeps our inner lamp always dancing in source joys.
life is love that like the seedless fruit be deliciously consumed in the fire of our inner tapas.
love each other intensely to knowing we are with each other with one simple task- to be happy!
to be happy is completions sought- like tying up the rope of one karmic life to the next and completing the circles with responsibility/duty and in our daily fire, seeking light to guide the swan like mind that enjoys the rooftops of the blossoming infinite we hold in each aware breath.
like ripe seedless fruits, grow this garden above the navel. as we grow older, there is nothing to look back that is missing. above the navel, we are the spirit and a natural celibate loving the experience in totality.
aging is slower due to inspired fire as human- the yogi awake in each knowing harmony in life as in all facets especially wellbeing springing from inner happiness.
worship the five elements we are and perceive the fulfilled grace in each.
blessings of each to each, the wise happy being in all the living!
jai guruve thunai
tapasyogi kalathi adimai aadi nandhi
aum namah sivaya
Yes, Nandhi, you took the words out of my mouth. 