AYP Newcomer: Good, Bad, Ugly... & Beautiful!

23. Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
1

Hello All,
I finally signed up today as I was searching something else which brought me again here. To keep it short (as possible) I am going to write a few a questions about AYP which are more critical, intentionally as I always question any approach I am introduced to. This will be followed by a few questions that are directly related to AYP, included what attracted me to it in the first place.
So to start with the outside view:

  1. Firstly, AYP… as well as the Vipassana, Kriya Yoga, Brahma Kumaris, AoL, Scientific methods, Buddhist schools, other Yoga academies - pretty much everyone else so I’m not singling anyone out follow this routine.
  • Science has shown that meditation does XYZ - “Oh, which is what we have been saying for a long time!”
  • Pranyama is now being used in schools … “Which is a cornerstone of AYP”
  • The Yogic texts have always highlighted the importance of energy up the spine … "This energy needs to be properly cultivated (AYP Spinal Breathing)
    In other words cutting edge science or ancient wisdom, every group tried to claim it for their own or that they are the only ones doing it properly. Do the AYP practitioners here acknowledge that AYP itself cannot claim any sort of dominion over these things, but is one possible method by which to reach a good ‘level’ - like various martial arts?
  1. There is, just like the many other groups a disproportionate number of people from U.K., USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia essentially White Caucasians. It’s seems here as well as in other groups, this colonial mindset exists that ‘we superior ones’ now have the best method. Don’t know if anyone else has noticed this.
  2. No problem with the selling of books and subscriptions, that’s the way you are enabled to share your knowledge where if people benefiit it’s all good. AYP, Spinal Breathing, Deep Meditation…same as the SKY Breathing Method or Sahaja Yoga it’s just simply labeling something that already exists. If a person had an opportunity to learn Yoga from a genuine yogi wouldn’t that be better?
    I KNOW that doing this is not practical and that in terms of AYP’s U.S.P - core expertise, it’s the digital medium that’s best suited for sharing with masses. Just that if a person had a choice between ‘joining AYP’ and going to India (forget the fake Babas!) and studying there - what would you recommend?
    AYP POSITIVE CLARIFICATIONS :slight_smile:
  3. I remember coming across Yogani’s book on Samyama and was delighted to see a book on it. One-on-One I’ve no doubt Yogani knows his stuff. On being here I was disheartened to discover that it seemed to TM, which seems a Trance state and dodgy organization, another one of those groups mentioned above.
    Lol…supposed to be positive; OK - is the CORE method at AYP Mantra Repetition?
  4. I have been ‘following’ the ‘Buddhist’ traditional method for Jhana; essential Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi or Samyama. It is not a trance state as someone one here mentioned, and the Buddha knew what he was in about. But these techniques were all Yogic. So for this Unification of Mind - ekagatta - as well as the clarity, peace, bliss, joy - what is the AYP suggestions for going about it ?
  • Generally (I.e. Start with book on … first then …)
  • Specifically ( Method for getting Mind still and silent)
    That and also someone in here said they had been practicing yoga for 11 years and just sat in Padmasana! Is the stance here that to ‘sit on the plane for takeoff’ at least will still be a several year journey?
  1. What is the quickest way to get some practice of the AYP principles. There are several books so which ones? cannot find a U.K. retreat - and if there is one is it going to be £500 for someone to teach Asana, Pranyama, Meditation - standard Yoga stuff?
    Is there something about the AYP method that’s different, even if it’s not it’s ok - just how can I taste what it’s all about???
    Apologies for the lengthy post
    Thank you!
2

Welcome :slight_smile:
AYP (Advanced Yoga Practices), yoga tools, not new, maybe as old as humanity… combined as a powerful system, free for everyone by these beautiful lessons of Yogani, by books, almost for nothing at AYP plus, why so many questions?
Yoga is to practice, to see for yourself, to experience, only then you will find the answers on your questions.
(my opinion)
From lesson 10, the start of the practice of AYP … Try some of these methods and see for yourself. It’s all waiting in you. Take a few baby steps, and soon you can be opening by leaps and bounds. That is assuming you are ready, and choose each day to go for more. Remember, it is the one thing we can take with us when we move on from this life.
Some of the practices we will be discussing include:

  • Cultivating permanent inner silence through Meditation.
  • Opening the subtle nerves through Pranayama (breath control).
  • Stimulating divine energy through advanced physical postures and maneuvers.
  • Cultivating divine desire and conduct.
  • Cultivating sexual energy to a new purpose.
  • Cultivating silent inner awareness outward in powerful ways.
    Some of these practices will seem familiar. Others will seem radical. Combined together in particular ways, they comprise a powerful system of yoga. These means are too useful to be reserved for the few. They belong to the many. So indulge yourself. If you long for the knowledge of human transformation, you are worthy, and you have come to the right place.
    The guru is in you.
3

Hello Asuradev
As Charliedog points out, yoga may be as old as humanity, that particular, numerous practices are similar. What sets AYP apart for me:

  1. It a stable, simple, thoughtful program requiring just an hour a day. As inner silence increases and ecstatic conductivity rises, I’ve learned how yoga manifests itself as love which positively affects my outlook on life and relationships.
  2. Yogani designed the practice to ramp up gradually and safely, explains each step thoroughly, outlines expectations and milestones, and advocates for yogis to police their journey (self pacing) minimizing the trouble these powerful practices may generate.
  3. AYP has been around a dozen years, experienced by thousands of yogis sharing their progress (or lack of) here on this forum.
  4. AYP is ideal for the average yogi with life responsibilities that prevent them from spiritual seeking far and wide.
  5. AYP has a large library, free lessons, and a large interactive community.
    You can ask tons of questions, compare and contrast approaches, intellectualize enlightenment and the fastest, steadiest way to achieve it, but until you experience any dedicated practice for yourself, you will never get to the “knowing”. The quickest way to find out if AYP is for you is to read the lessons from the start and dive in.
4

Thanks for the answers!
So are you saying the best route is the free lessons in order - where are they and are they all in audio or text as well?
Then the books, then the membership??

5

Click here this explains how AYP works, in the menu you see main lessons, click and find free lessons…start at the beginning, lesson 10
The books, audio, more lessons, videos are all available at AYP Plus
Let us know what you don’t understand, we hope to see you aboard :slight_smile:

6

Ahh got it!
Do keep clicking next if I read and understand - practice if applicable - each topic until they stop or I can’t access…
…then move onto AYP Plus?

7

Hi Asuradev, welcome to AYP!

They won’t stop. All AYP lessons, in their initial version, are available entirely for free on this website.
On Plus you can get:

  • updates to the lessons, which Yogani is still adding
  • all the books - on-screen and audio formats
  • and there is another forum on Plus, which is more focused on AYP.
    Enjoy the lessons and hopefully your AYP practice.
8

The core practice in AYP is meditation.
Mantra meditation is recommended in the early lessons. It’s a powerful practice and it fits with AYP’s aim to provide an effective spiritual practice to busy people with active lifestyles (family, job and no time to go to India).
For some people, mantra meditation turns out to be too strong. Quite a few people are sensitive to practices i.e. they need less to make progress. The sensitivity can be acquired over the years of practice, or it can be there from the beginning. When you begin to practice mantra meditation, you will find out if it is too strong for you. The alternative is breath focused meditation (or, for those who are already advanced in meditation, passive awareness is also an option.)
So take your time to explore mantra meditation. Over the weeks and months to come, you will find out what your sensitivity level is, and how best to self pace. The lessons on self pacing are very important. With no teacher to administer the techniques according to your level, you will have to learn to do it yourself. That will take some experimenting and learning. A conservative approach to adding new practices is recommended.
Good luck!

9

Hi Asuradev,
Welcome to the forum. :slight_smile:
That’s a lot of questions! I will try and answer a few of them. On a forum like this, it can be easier if you ask one question at a time. Or maybe, two at most.

I have not seen anyone here trying to claim any dominion over anything. There are many paths up the mountain. One that is suitable for one person, may not be suitable for another, so it is important that each person finds a path that is right for them.
AYP practitioners are spread out around the world, with roughly one third in Asia (mostly India), one third in Europe and one third in the Americas and the rest of the world. You may see more people from Europe, North America and Australia writing in this forum, because it is an English language forum. Many in India, Nepal and other places do not speak English. So that is purely a linguistic thing. Also, the AYP books were written originally in English, and for a while were only available in this language. They are currently being translated into many other languages, but it is an ongoing project involving many volunteers in many countries around the world.

If you are able to learn from an experienced teacher, it is always good. Learning yoga does not have to be either/ or though. It is quite possible to learn some things through books and other things from a teacher in a class or on a retreat. The two can compliment each other very well. Personally, I had many very experienced teachers, in India and elsewhere, but I have learned at least as much from the AYP resources, as I have done from my teachers.
All of the AYP practices lead to samadhi (jhana). One single technique can work, but the beauty of yoga is that the sum is greater than the individual parts. Building up an integrated practice, incorporating all 8 limbs of yoga will bring us to samadhi quicker than any individual practice. It will also bring about a more stable and lasting awakening. Many people are able to enter jhana, but very few taste liberation. Samadhi/ jhana is an important stage on the path, but it is not the whole path.

We do run retreats in the U.K. and around the world. There are three retreats planned for the U.K. next year. Two will be mixed ability retreats, and one- taking place in May- will be an intermediate to advanced level retreat. We do teach the basic practices on mixed ability retreats, but the purpose of the retreats is not for people to learn the practices. People are encouraged to already be familiar with the core AYP practices before coming on a retreat. The retreats are an opportunity to practice together and to be able to go deeper into the practices than people are normally able to in their day-to-day life. Also, practicing in a group causes a certain energetic resonance to take place (caused by ecstatic radiance), which does not happen when people practice alone.
See here for retreats taking place in the U.K. next year:

We do our best to keep the cost of retreats as low as possible, so that people from all walks of life are able to attend.

One of the amazing things about AYP is that it is available for everyone for free. As Charliedog, Dogboy and Blueraincoat mentioned above, the free lessons contain everything you need to build up a full scope yoga practice. There are more than 500 free lessons and they cover everything, including all the practices, that you will need to know to become enlightened.
So feel free to jump in, and if you have any questions, ask here. As you practice, it will become obvious how AYP differs from other traditions of yoga.
The Plus site is really for people who want to access more dedicated support, be able to listen to all the lessons in audio with audio links built into the lessons, access the additions to the main and Tantra lessons and be able to read all of the AYP books online.
The printed books are for people who do not want to read everything on a computer screen, or who do not have a computer. Some of the books- especially the Enlightenment series books- do contain more information than is available in the free lessons.
Enjoy! :sunglasses:
Christi

10

Hi Asuradev,
Your questions are legitimate for someone who is looking for a spiritual path. As you know, the AYP does not say that this is the only path, or the best path. The techniques described in the AYP are classical yoga techniques.
If you already have a spiritual practice, read the lessons, and maybe add or adapt your practice to this knowledge for the best results. In the end, the best spiritual practice is the one you DO every day.
There are some clear advantages of the AYP system: First of all, it works. If you read the lessons and build a personal practice as it is taught here, you will experience progress on the path, with the rise of inner silence, ecstatic conductivity, and outpouring divine love. The results depend on the elvel of purity of your nervous system, your commitment to the practice, and grace.
Second, the AYP marks a clear path. Before coming to the AYP, I spent many years doing spiritual practices, and while there was clear that there is an immense territory beyond his world, I was wondering around it for years. The AYP lessons provided me with a map, and this made all the difference.
Third, the AYP is self-directed. You can read, learn, and practice it from the comfort of your home. You do not need a guru, or expensive travel. You can use your regular life to integrate the results for a fast progress. You can adapt the practice to suit your needs and your life.
Forth, in the AYP system it does not matter the color of your skin, your gender, or nationality. I am a woman in this life, and I have been told enough times that I could not do something as I was a woman. These stereotypical judgements are non-sense: We have more freedom than we think.
The AYP describes the yoga techniques clearly, and integrates them in an efficient practice. Many times in other traditions the techniques are not explained well or complete, and they are not integrated in a system of understanding and practice. There are so many ways to meditate and do pranayama. What should we choose? Why? How long should we practice it? (By the way, mantra meditation does not mean that you will go in a trance, or that you will get to repeat the mantra forever. The mantra is a tool, and your meditation will evolve. You have to do it to see what I mean.)
The list can go on and on. In the end, it all comes down to practice: Do it, and you will see for yourself if the AYP is valuable.
Best wishes on your chosen path,
Blanche

11

Hi Christi,
I see that you posted while I was writing. :sunglasses:

12

:pray:

13

Thank you to ALL of you who replied, I’m very grateful!
So in terms ‘f getting started, please tell me if there’s thread for this, and forgive me if I’m going around in circles…read lessons starting with 10 and at my own pace. If I feel that I can integrate it or explore it on its own then just do it as go on - self-directed. Is that about right?
P.s. I would really want to skip mantra of any sort! I have been doing Concentration Meditation on the Breath for a while now and feel that would take me ‘backwards’
However* if ANYONE has experience with Jhana meditation and how to go from there towards a more Yogic approach - be that general guidance or ‘Go to Lesson 170’ I’d be very grateful.
Thank you guys so much
:pray:

14

Hi Asuradev,
Yes, that’s right- start at lesson 10 and proceed from there. The lessons are in order and will guide you as to what to do.
The baseline teaching in AYP does include mantra meditation, starting at lesson 13. However, AYP can be used as an open resource, where you can take what is useful for you and integrate that into your own practice. Of course doing this then becomes each person’s own experiment, as there are an infinite number of different ways in which the AYP practices could be mixed with other spiritual practices. You can always let us know how you get on with it. See lesson 384 on this:
Lesson 384 - Baseline Systems of Practice and Research on Modifications
Breathing meditation is taught in AYP as a backup technique for people who are over-sensitive to mantras. It is generally not as far-reaching a practice as mantra meditation, especially when it comes to entry into jhana/ samadhi, which is why it is not recommended as the main meditation technique to be used in AYP. You can read more about this in lesson 367:
Lesson 367 - Suggestions for Over-Sensitive Meditators
On Samadhi/jhana, see this lesson:
Lesson 248 - Culture, Samadhi and Snow.

If you are especially interested in any particular aspect of yoga, you can run a forum search on it here:
https://www.aypsite.org/forum/search.asp
Or a lessons search on it here:
https://www.aypsite.org/SiteSearch.html
AYP Plus has more advanced search features, where all of the AYP books and the lesson additions can be searched.
Christi

15

[quote=“Asuradev”]
P.s. I would really want to skip mantra of any sort! I have been doing Concentration Meditation on the Breath for a while now and feel that would take me ‘backwards’
[/quote]Could you please clarify this? Are you saying that replacing your meditation technique would be a set back? If that is your concern, then yes, there is something in that, there is usually period of transition (it could be a few weeks) before we settle into a new technique. Once we do, however, the gains we made with a previous technique will not be lost.
That is not to say you shouldn’t be following your gut feeling. Perhaps what you need at this time is further guidance in you Buddhist practice?
Christi talks about adopting practices from a different system and grafting them on another. Yogani recommends that only advanced practitioners should do that. Otherwise mixing and matching carries some risks. You could be doubling up in one area and leave important ground uncovered.
How long have you been practising Concentration Meditation on the Breath and is that your first spiritual practice?

16

Thanks Christie!
*So AYP Plus is probably better than buying the Enlightenment 10 book series on Amazon eh?
Thank you for your response Blueraincoat. To clarify, and I might as well go all in on here, I don’t mean a setback in terms of transition. I mean a setback that mantra meditation is…well inferior to meditation on the Breath!..or self, or awareness or silence. I see mantra as a great way to calm the mind down but it’s whole point is so then you can be silent. If someone has been practicing silent meditation on the Breath or any kind that is closer to stillness then mantra, as well as visualization or guided ‘feel the heaviness floating away’ - feels like why would I go back and put training wheels on the bike when I can at least drive it down the road.
Please don’t see this as just my ‘Buddhist stance’, I speak up when people ignore the Yoga Buddy did before and I’m not part of any lineage. Buddhists have just covered a lot of ground and people I speak to are normally open to taking and integrating what is useful from any source. In martial arts this is Bruce Lee’s approach, taking what useful and discarding what is useless for your own growth.
I think focused meditation on the Breath is a very universal and foundational method.
I also get Yogani’s view and he is probably super experienced! In another analogy… If a business starts doing that they may miss out on basics or leave ground uncovered as you said. Big risks. But a growing smaller business and and should expierment a bit. If you haven’t ‘hit’ the higher states yet then isn’t this the right time to find the best, most efficient method? Grafting techniques when you are experiencing fruitful states may be risky or even just that the mixing and matching is silly because you had already found a great method.
Business, martial arts, studying, dancing…kinda applicable to all. I’ve been in discussions where if some people committed to Buddhist methods incorporated some Yogic approach and turned out to be a game changer.

17

What do you feel that you are missing?
Why not read the lessons? If it doesn’t resonate, it doesn’t.

18

Hi Asuradev,

It depends if you like reading actual books, or reading online. All of the enlightenment series books are available on AYP Plus to read online, so yes, that is a very good option.
With meditation, using a mantra is not a training wheels approach to meditation. It is actually more advanced than using other forms of meditation such as using the breath or using the sound of silence etc. and does not have the difficulties associated with those particular objects of meditation. One of the problems with using the sound of silence is that it is not always available for everyone and when it is not, then we are left without a meditation object. One of the problems with using the breath is that when we enter states of samadhi that are still enough to transcend the physical realm, the meditation object is lost. By using a mantra, because it is more subtle than the breath, it is still available even in deeper states of samadhi.
As BlueRaincoat says, and as it explains in lesson 384, if you are not already an experienced practitioner, then best not to be experimenting with mixing and matching spiritual practices. So if that is the case and you want to give AYP a go, then try using the mantra and the other AYP practices as you get to them and see how it goes. You may be surprised. :slight_smile:
If it does not work out for you, you can try a different system. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain! :sunglasses: In the end you will gain the whole kingdom.
Christi

19

Bear in mind that many people posting here have tried more than one form of meditation for long periods of time. Some of us have practised all three, at different times in our development. So we are speaking from direct experience. While your views on mantra meditation are based on hearsay. That makes for a rather unequal discussion, don’t you think?
You are, of course, the master of your practice and will use your own judgement in choosing your meditation technique. That is how it should be. But if you are asking for our advice… well, you have already had it. :slight_smile:
The lessons are available for you to read and make up your mind about what you might wish to integrate in your practice. It’s your experiment. One more word of advice: Read the lessons thoroughly. Each system of practice has its own internal logic. It is good to understand it before clipping out parts of it.
All the best on your chosen path. :pray:

20

Thanks again!
So I’m after:

  1. Enjoying Meditation - so it becomes less of a chore
  2. Advancing and experiencing joy, peace, clarity, creativity, focus - associated benefits
  3. Samadhi/Jhana
    I don’t know how a mantra could be more subtle than the Breath or sta6 in Samadhi but I appreciate you guys have tried many methods as well. I think I will give it a go. Like I said I said, I’m at a stage I feel where I can try something daily for half an hour or much longer and it’s worth investigating.
    Great about the book and I don’t mind reading digitally! First I’ll try the lessons though then go through books.
    3 short questions!
  4. So your saying you have been through this journey and and have at least ENTERED Samadhi/Jhana?
  5. You have done this using mantra?? and other ways?
  6. Do you still use mantra? Does it move past it? What are expected practice times and timelines?
  • please tell me if 3) is in the lessons!
    Thank you!
    :pray: