I was reading about the 112 techniques of Tantra, and I wondered why there seemed to be a paradox between the 4th and the 98th answers of Shiva:
4. Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped—in such universal pause, one’s small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.
98. The purity of other teachings is as impurity to us. In reality know nothing as pure or impure.
Actually, the first one (no 4) disturbed me a bit: I always find it difficult to hold the breath in my practices (I’m talking about a specific practice I do, not the AYP ones);
I always come to a point of panicking or feeling uncomfortable when I feel I need to breathe in again…although it has been 3 years I practice everyday.
I feel it has something to do with the fear of letting go, the fear of death itself…
I’m aware that one shouldn’t force himself to the point of discomfort, still isn’t it good to try to push it a little bit further than the comfortable limit? Or can it be harmful (to the heart, the brain for example)?
Could anybody please comment?
About the paradox - do you mean about the use of the word “impure”? If so - in the realm of time and space there is such a thing as “impure” - so someone with a lot of cleaning to do still will not have these breath sessations automatically (“stopped of itself”, verse 4), but find it difficult to force a breath stop by will. Ultimate reality, on the other hand, is beyond time and space, and thus “In reality know nothing as pure or impure”. All duality is then gone into Oneness.
Your other question is better answered by someone else, I think! I never force any holding breath.
Hi Goddessinside (you are!),
Great post.
I think the breathless state is nothing to be afraid of and it happens by itself naturally when you apply effective methods of meditation. It is nothing you can force.
I think the words used in the text you mention may sound harsh to you but you have not to worry on being impure at all! It is a way of stating that you have few obstructions in the nervous system, once you relax more and gradually you easily enter the breathless state. When you use effective meditation techniques that state comes soon enough. I find AYP works for me. (on the moment I just notice, like you, the breath slowing way down and wanting to stop; I am also at that “brink”… it is exciting!)
In the breathless state you don’t have any thoughts, the mind disapears. That is why the mind is afraid to die but you don’t die don’t worry! Of course you only noticed you were in a no-mind state after you come back to the mind. In that state there is no mind to realise that, still you are there. You don’t have to worry in forcing it. I would recommend you check if the methods you use are effective. Search your heart and intuition. If you feel like trying something else look at various possibilities and follow the one that strikes you, that somehow resonates with you. It can be AYP or not.
It is a letting go like you say. But, paradoxically, it is nothing that you can force or “attain”. It will happen quite naturally when you learn to let go. And you can do this quite effortlessly with an effective method that you use over the long term. That way you will gradually be “purified”. But don’t think you are impure! No-one is! It is just a matter of desobstruction, underneath we are all shinning light! Don’t worry!
All the best!
Hi Goddessinside,
The word impure is used in different contexts. Please remember, Sanskrit is a very versatile language and one word can have different meanings depending on how it is used in a sentence. Firstly let me tell you something about the fourth technique.
In the fourth technique, Shiva is not asking you to hold your breath. He is asking you to catch the gap between the inbreath and outbreath. In the beginning, the gap may be a few seconds. I have talked about it here:
It may help to read the the whole topic. It is a wonderful and very powerful technique. It works best if you have been practicing meditation for a bit. Now for the word impure. By impure in this point he is talking of a very active mind. People who are not into meditation, will find it hard to catch the gap between inbreath and outbreath. So the world impure is used in the context of a mind that is active and not calmed through meditation.
Here is Osho’s explanations on it: http://www.otantra.net/oTantra/VBTv1/chapter03.html#001
The 98th technique is talking about something that will be easy to understand once you understand the Vigyana Bhairava Tantra a bit and/or as you continue on your path and this truth is revealed to you. There is no “pure” and “impure” because those are labels a mind attaches. Everything arises from awareness/silence… including the labels of pure/impure, good/bad, right/wrong. And since it arises from silence, then it is us… we are it… how can something be bad if it arose from the same silence the good arose from. How can someone be bad if it is the same silence the good person arose from. It can only be so in the mind. When beyond the mind… nothing can be pure/impure, good/bad, right/wrong. Please don’t try to understand this… let the understanding come to you.
Also, please don’t try to understand the Vigyana Bhairava Tantra by its literal words. It helps to read the commentaries on them. Here is an online source of Osho’s “Book Of Secrets” http://www.otantra.net/oTantraMedText.html
You can listen to commentaries by Nithyananda on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=LifeBlissFoundation&view=videos
Hope these help.
Hi Goddessinside:
The 112 techniques are from the 4000 year old Vigyan Bhairava – a remarkable tantric scripture, not without its variations from what we are doing in AYP in modern times, but amazing in its similarities too. Especially considering that the Vigyan Bhairava was not used in the formation of what is now AYP. All these centuries later, the essential principles of effective spiritual practice remain the same.
The thing is not to strain in practices, including spinal breathing pranayama and kumbhaka (breath suspension). We self-pace to our present capacity, not going beyond our comfort level. Over time in practices the inner pathways are purified and opened and it becomes smoother, easier and more ecstatic. Then we are able to do more in practice with comfort, if we choose.
It is a lot to expect a 4000 year old scripture to cover such details. Instead, it just says there is resistance before purification, which is a good way of putting it.
The best kind of kumbhaka is the kind that comes without intention in deep meditation, when there is a natural “vanishing of the small self.” In AYP we also use intentional kumbhaka (sparingly) in yoni mudra and dynamic jalandhara (chin pump). Breath suspension may occur naturally at other times when ecstatic conductivity and radiance are overtaking the neurobiology; what we call “whole body mudra.”
The Vigyan Bhairava line about regarding other teachings as impure implies the traditional approach of shunning inter-traditional information flow, something that is on the way out in modern times. There were good reasons for how it was then, and good reasons for how it is now. I prefer the now.
As for nothing being considered to be pure or impure, that is a reference to non-duality, where all conditions (pure or impure) are seen to be moving in stillness. This is a later stage experience as we advance in practices. The purification will continue to occur within and around us through this becoming of Oneness. It is stillness in action, the unending flow of outpouring divine love.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Great answers from others here. Thank you!
Hi everybody…
thanks for your contribution.
I must clarify one thing: I’m practicing a specific technique called “Shambhavi”. It’s quite different from the AYP shambhavi, though the link between the third eye and the perineum is the same.
It has 3 steps: alternate breathing through the nostrils, then AUM chanting, then fast breathing (nose) and finally 2 breath locks:
one on full lungs, with chin lock and the second lock on empty lungs with chin lock…then I watch my breath.
This technique was designed by Saddguru Jaggi Vasudev, and when I was initiated, it was said that the first lock on full lungs will enhance concentration and brain energy (or something like that), and the lock on empty lungs has to do with the vanishing of the ego, or what is described as “the small self” in Vigyan Bhairava…
So…when I say I still find it difficult to hold my breath (especially on empty lungs), my mind (my wise Doctor Mind!) made a link and said “Looks like I have a tenacious ego afterall!”…and yes, I would lie if I say to you that I didn’t felt a bit deceived.
Yes, meditation is definitely a must…I’m experiencing the benefits on the nervous system. Yet I wonder if a mantra is not a kind of “mind soporific” that surely quiet the mind, but do it bring true inner transformation on the long run?
Sorry, maybe I’m putting many things together in the casserole, but I feel they are all related to eachother…
PS: I mentioned “Saddguru Jaggi Vasudev”, but I’m definitely not a guru addict! The Guru is inside, I agree with you Yogani.
Hi Goddessinside,
From my point of view meditation is essential. Without it not much is accomplished in my view. Solely with meditation you can accomplish a lot also. The rest of the array of techniques are bonuses, enhancers and great at that but I do think that meditation is the main and foremost technique, the basis for everything else, so to speak.
Regarding mantra meditation, I do think it does bring transformation over the long term. It did to me, and it is still doing. It does exactly what Yogani mentions: a gradual purification of the nervous system. And more joy, steadfasteness and openings in everyday life. You just need to self-pace, and be consistent in your practice. I do admit that it also strikes me as odd a bit mantra meditation. I don’t know exactly how and why it works. I think it is because you are making your mind still by fixating it on a neutral object, then it becomes still. It is all about making the mind still. Other methods are available, you should choose what feels natural to you. I admit my mind still wonders about mantra meditation, but the fact is that it works.
Meditation is for quiteting the mind, for bringing stillness. Then, you realise (by not thinking) that the mind is just a part of you but you are much more than the mind. It is a wonderful thing!
I let you with a video from Osho where he answers the question on what is the best meditation technique for a pupil (from an apparent list of 112 traditional techniques…here is that number again ): http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oeEDKBxkNgM
And also a short article that satisfied me substantially in explaining how a mantra works: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/meditationexcerptbyray.htm
All the very best my friend!
Hi,
When using a mantra the monkey mind is quietened.When this happens we enter deeper states of consciousness and the curtain that seperates us from the superconscious states opens slightly for us to enter.As we progress this curtain remains open for longer moments of time.This is often evident when you find yourself entering longer moments of samadhi.
L&L
Dave
hi goddess, you actually got me interested in jaggi now it would’ve been nice if i saw him when he was in beirut (well maybe next time).
i’ve heard about him before from some lebanese friends and saw a picture of him not such a long while back next to the american university of beirut in hamra.
thk you for the good words on the guy, i’ll try to attend his seminars next time.
kindest regards,
Ananda
p.s: we have an arabic translation for the ayp lessons if you would like to take a look. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theguruisinyou/
[quote]Originally posted by Ananda hi goddess, you actually got me interested in jaggi now it would’ve been nice if i saw him when he was in beirut (well maybe next time).
(…)thk you for the good words on the guy, i’ll try to attend his seminars next time.
Hi Ananda,
If you need any information about the upcoming classes, I can give you a phone number.
Personnally, I find Jaggi’s talks very logical, maybe too much!
People who are searching for answers are naturally attracted and fascinated by these logical words. I’m not saying it’s bad. But although I took yoga techniques and attended some sathsangs, my heart doesn’t vibrate… I find the sensitivity and poetry of Osho teachings far more deep and rich. He embraces all dimensions, talks about everything with a deep insight. He doesn’t distribute methods only…he digs in every aspects of life, giving every thing its true value.Anyway, it’s my vision afterall!
Thank you!
Guess what: I’ve just watched it yesterday and now realized that you sent me the same video! Nothing happens by mistake…
It’s been 2 days my mind went crazy and I couldn’t even do my regular practices… Yesterday, in the evening, I just sat in silence, and suddenly I decided to watch “The Secret”: this DVD was given to me by my friend 1 year ago. Only last night did it call to me to watch it! And while my main concern those days was about dealing with the mind and all the suffering that comes from it, just by watching this DVD, I came out of my confusion…
Watching our thoughts, emotions etc. is a daily meditation that brings true transformation on the long term…
It’s just that we have sometimes strong patterns and we fall again in the same black holes… My whole work is to become more and more aware of how these patterns work, to be able to look at them from a distant and detached point of view.
Easy to say…Less easy to apply!
I want to say thank you Yogani for the simple approaches and techniques you share with us. I just started to try the AYP pranayama and meditation. I will give it a chance for a while, and I’m already sensitive to the pleasurable feelings it gives.
Let’s practice and see…
hi goddess, i am personally hooked on ayp concerning practices but i like being in the presence of spiritual people.
if jagi is still in lebanon and intending to do satsangs, then yes i would like that phone number.
you can send it to me via email, concerning Osho he just doesn’t click with me i think that is due to the ones who are spreading his teachings in lebanon.
i’ve found the people who are in the Sivananda center at gemayzeh to be the most true and less expensive in their teachings.
by the way i never found someone like yogani in lebanon, i had a premature crown chakra opening and asked for advice here and there and all i heard is good for you continue but it didn’t resonate with me bcz my state wasn’t so good and it was the reason how i got in contact with this beautiful community and in one week everything returned to normal and more.
and thx to the ayp community and yogani i had such a big understanding for the indepth mechanics of yoga in a very short time and i’m positive i couldn’t do this here in lebanon and without spending a fortune while going at it.
this is a beautiful community Goddess, and i’m sure you can benefit a lot from.
i wish you all the best on your path, you are a kind soul.
light and love,
Ananda
Yes! I’ve see this happening in my life as well, more and more. More scenery to enjoy
I think you are in the right track, it seems to me. All that’s left for me to say is GOOD LUCK AND ALL THE BEST!!
[quote]Originally posted by Ananda if jagi is still in lebanon and intending to do satsangs, then yes i would like that phone number.
Just contact Elie at 03-747178. Usually, they do satsang once a month.
—> If you like to feel the presence and energy of an enlightened one, I think you won’t be deceived… personnally, I’ve been to 4 satsangs, out of curiosity and desire to feel something beyond my limitations…and to my great surprise, despite my “allergy” to such kind of guru, each time, I put myself in a position of surrender and openess, putting my resistance beside me… you just feel a wave of energy filling the room, penetrating you. Last time, in spite of myself, my head just turned up, my spine was just shaking unwillingly, and I exploded in tears…I could do nothing. Even breathing was difficult. It wasn’t a pleasurable moment. But it was so powerful. All the anger and frustration that I had accumulated just came out and I felt instant compassion, I felt like a mother to all the people present in the room…it was something!Even if Jaggi is not physically present, there is a time, during the satsang, when you are just being in direct contact with his energies. Good luck!
concerning Osho he just doesn’t click with me i think that is due to the ones who are spreading his teachings in lebanon.
—> if you are talking about Mariam Nour, I understand you feelings, even if I don’t share them. She’s a great being. Anyway,
to me, reading Osho is the best. And Osho - as well as any other enlightened master - is not a man, neither a humanbeing. It’s a space and opportunity to meet the divine. And the divine is in me and you, but it’s always an enriching experience to be in the presence of higher energies.
i’ve found the people who are in the Sivananda center at gemayzeh to be the most true and less expensive in their teachings. —> Unfortunately, spirituality has become a big business especially in Lebanon. To me, an ant is a yogi. no need to follow anybody: I am enough to myself! We just need some keys to come back home, that’s all!
and thx to the ayp community and yogani i had such a big understanding for the indepth mechanics of yoga in a very short time and i’m positive i couldn’t do this here in lebanon and without spending a fortune while going at it.—> I’m happy for you.
Always listen to your heart…
this is a beautiful community Goddess, and i’m sure you can benefit a lot from. —> Yes I am! I can feel the energy of the ones I’m communicating with. They are pure souls and I’m grateful for their help.
i wish you all the best on your path, you are a kind soul.—> thank you so much. We all are, it’s just a matter of dusting!
You can check the schedule of upcoming Isha medidation programs (founder : Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev) in the below website. http://www.ishafoundation.org/Schedule/Isha-Yoga-Programs.isa
I had switched from AYP to Isha meditation sometime back. But not practising anything right now
I am planning to kick-start the Isha meditation again.
Particularly, I would recommend the BSP course (Bhava Spandana). Its a wonderful program which opened my heart to some extent.
I love Sadhguru’s thoughts and talks. As Goddess mentioned they are very logical. I am yet to see him in person though. I will write more on my experiences with Isha meditations and their programs after sometime, when I get the chance.
[quote]Originally posted by sushman
Particularly, I would recommend the BSP course (Bhava Spandana). Its a wonderful program which opened my heart to some extent.
Hi Sushman,
Guess what! I have registered to the next BSP that will take place in Lebanon at the end of this month.
Maybe I’ll share my experience with you later on.
Just to add to the idea of not forcing anything in these practices, I would like to qoute another translation of this sutra no 4 that might give additional insight.
Also, it seems to me that he translates the “impure” to mean “without reservation”
This one by Lorin Roche http://lorinroche.com/page13/page14/page14.html
“In any quiet moment when you are breathing,
the breath may flow out and pause of itself,
or flow in and pause of itself.
There experience opens into an exquisite vastness
with no beginning and no end.
Embrace that infinity without reservation.
Dive into it, drink deeply of it and emerge renewed.”
thank you Rattan! that sounds better to my ears!
I think many of us have already experienced this state of “no breath” that feels very vast and comfortable…
Sometimes it feels like you can stay like that for an eternity without any discomfort! I’ve experienced that in relaxed orgasms, and also after chin locks, and particularly when I am on a high mood! It helps! Really, in those moments, no body/mind/anything is here: you just witness one thing: you are emptiness! it’s ecstatic and frightening at the same time! but with time, when we get used to let go, the experience is allowed to go deeper…
thk you Godess, i’ve actually been arround a lot of spiritual people but i never had the feeling of that spiritual presence except from three people i’ve met through out my life and the most peaceful presence i experienced was from a christian orthodox monk in baskenta named brother Selwan anyone can who passes next to the monastery up there can see him.
during the rest of the times i sort of had that spiritual effect on others as i’ve heard .
and don’t worry i don’t follow anyone, but i don’t mind benefiting from everyone…
thank you for your feedback, i appreciate it.
light and love,
Ananda
it is exciting!)
