14 Spiritual Myths? For inquiry.

[Anthem]

@yogani

Hi Anthem:
Could be wrong, but it still looks like an attitude from here. And even if it were not, and even if it is only your point of view, it still has an influence on others when left unqualified without the prerequisites.

Hi Yogani,
Apologies for the delayed reply, I was away for a few days.
This is the self-inquiry forum, and just a reminder that this original post was a list of topics for inquiry. You did change the direction of this thread pretty substantially with your concerns that I was endorsing non-practice, or short-cuts, or not recognizing that consciousness varies from person to person or influencing people in an irresponsible way, or trying to spread attitudinal knowledge etc. These are your assumptions/ projections/ fears and have nothing to do with me or what I have been saying. I am sharing the way I see things, hopefully there is room for this. The original list was to provide some inquiry for the pitfalls that I have experienced in the past and the intention was to be helpful, it probably isn’t necessary, but not everyone needs to learn the hard way like I do at times.
Listing my pre-requisites each time I post is probably not realistic, but just to point out, most of it is here on the forum dating back almost 10 years over a thousand posts. I am happy to post in Other Systems if you feel it would be more appropriate?
Now if you want to have a good solid discussion that helps in seeing things more clearly, I am all for that.

Aside from all that, your underlying premise is suspect. Is it really seeking outside that causes suffering? Is it setting goals and working toward them that causes suffering? Is it whether we regard the dog as angry or not that determines our state of being? Is it our beliefs that cause suffering? Must we let go of all that to find peace? I think not, at least not in how we continue to function in the world.
In all of these, it is not the act, attitude, or belief that causes suffering. It is the identification of our awareness with these things (seeing them as part of self) that causes suffering. Likewise, identification with the goal of ending seeking and beliefs will also cause suffering. It is as much a trap as all the rest of it. Again, not necessarily talking about you, but looking across a wide spectrum of seekers.

Yes, I see it this way as well, it comes down to identification with any of these that causes suffering. I would add, if someone is acting on a belief, arguing/ fighting for it, needing to be right, there is an emotional charge involved etc., it is likely a sign of identification, so it doesn’t really matter. If you see through beliefs, you see through identification. Yes a belief can arise in the mind and depart in silence, but then it is recognized that we don’t really know anything (absolutely) in the end anyway. And knowing this isn’t enough often, it still needs to be lived again and again.
Yes having a goal to end seeking or beliefs would likely cause suffering. I prefer walking the path in front of me and seeing and hopefully understanding the learning that life brings my way. As mentioned a few posts ago, it is an ongoing life long process of continuous learning (seeing), and there is no end. Again my path at this moment in time, not an endorsement for anyone to follow this. Each person’s path is uniquely theirs to walk and discover.
Also, I’m really not too concerned about traps. What do I have to be afraid of with this? I fall into traps all the time, how else would I learn? Where else does wisdom come from? As you mention, with increasing awareness, it will all fade in time. Am i conscious of traps being problematic for some people for long periods of time? Yes very.

Inquiry can be used help dissolve identification, but as we have discussed again and again, the effectiveness of that for any given individual will depend on the degree of abiding inner silence (awareness/witness) present. And that is a function of meditation more than any other practice. It can’t be bypassed. I know you are not saying that it can be bypassed, but by omission there is the implication that it can be.

I wouldn’t comment on what the masses need. I am not in the business of developing a system for the masses so have no idea. All I can say is I enjoyed formal meditation immensely for years and found it very helpful which I have said a few times in this thread and others, so where is this omission you keep thinking you’re seeing exactly?

[quote]
So what am I asking? Not that you change anything you are doing. Only to consider that others who read about what you are doing can easily misunderstand. When we share what we are doing, that is sure to influence others, and therefore we are obliged to qualify how we got to where we are if we want to convey the whole truth.
[/quote] All I can say to this is no matter how hard a person tries to share the whole truth, (which is only ever their version of it at best) people will still misunderstand as is in heavy evidence in this thread and everywhere. There were plenty of things I misunderstood about AYP over the years, that’s just the way with communication sometimes. At the end of the day, we all are responsible for ourselves to the best of our abilities.

[quote]
I have found that there is nothing wrong (binding - causing suffering) with having beliefs, goals and seeking, and they still are functioning fully here, while at the same time having little influence on my sense of self.
[/quote] I agree there is nothing wrong with any of these.
All the best!
A

[Holy]

@NoDogma
yes, you are right He has obviously advanced quite nicely compared to those early himalayan days. Now the bliss does not leave him while talking and when he stops talking even the atoms dissolve into bliss I like this man very much
Peace to all, I like you all very much aswell

[bewell]

@Anthem

…these questions are variations of common types of ideas that seem to pervade the thinking of many spiritual seekers.

Hi Anthem,
I’ve been reading and reflecting on this thread.
For clarification, did you ever actually believe any of those “14 Spiritual Myths” as they are written? For example, would you say you used to actually believe that emotional reactions disappear with enlightenment or spiritual mastery? If so, I wonder where you got that idea. Maybe Tolle who, as I recall, distinguishes reaction from response. As I reflect specifically on AYP teachings, I don’t recall any promise that “liberation” means emotional reactions disappear.
For myself, I don’t think I ever believed that emotional reactions would disappear (so long as there is a physical body that has not disappeared). I expected changes, but I did not expect emotionlessness. Over time, and through practices, I think I’ve become more emotionally sensitive. I also have become better at letting go and moving on after emotional reactions. This helps me learn more from emotional reactions. As I read the other “myths” you have listed, I likewise don’t recall ever believing any of them in the way that you have written them.
That said, I have benefited from doing some belief inquiry, thanks to this thread. Do I believe something in such a way that prevents me from acknowledging direct experience? What happens when I let go of beliefs that surface in any given moment?
One of my beliefs is that “God is love, and God is good, and God is merciful, and God is compassionate.” I also believe that we humans can participate in the character of this “God.”
When I consciously let go of that belief, and look at direct experience something happens. It is a bit of a relief. This is different from disbelief. It is more like belief tempered by direct experience.
Thanks for the discussion!

[CarsonZi]

@bewell

Do I believe something in such a way that prevents me from acknowledging direct experience?

Mmmmmmmm, juicy.

[Anthem]

[quote=“bewell”]

[quote]
If so, I wonder where you got that idea. Maybe Tolle who, as I recall, distinguishes reaction from response. As I reflect specifically on AYP teachings, I don’t recall any promise that “liberation” means emotional reactions disappear.
[/quote] I couldn’t say any one place, my own unique expectation or interpretation primarily perhaps.

For myself, I don’t think I ever believed that emotional reactions would disappear (so long as there is a physical body that has not disappeared). I expected changes, but I did not expect emotionlessness. Over time, and through practices, I think I’ve become more emotionally sensitive. I also have become better at letting go and moving on after emotional reactions. This helps me learn more from emotional reactions. As I read the other “myths” you have listed, I likewise don’t recall ever believing any of them in the way that you have written them.

Yes it is more like this for me too, expanded sensitivity, everything can still arise, the potential for the full range of human experience, and then dissolves/ moves on.

That said, I have benefited from doing some belief inquiry, thanks to this thread. Do I believe something in such a way that prevents me from acknowledging direct experience? What happens when I let go of beliefs that surface in any given moment?

I like the way you word that. Yes, direct experience.
All I can say is that there wasn’t a lot of apparent choice when it came to all the things I believed about life or when it was no longer possible to continue to believe some of those things for that matter. I simply noticed, aided greatly by a lot of reading I did of people like Tolle, Ruiz and Byron Katie etc. at some point that when I believed things in a concrete way, it lead to a lot of pain and limited my experience of life. Also, with all the practices I was doing, many things just didn’t hold up to scrutiny and fell away including concepts of me/ i/. It was seen that I had to fixate on something repeatedly for it to seem real and concrete and reference a supporting case of thoughts to prop it up as a truth of the way I thought things worked. When I became aware of other possibilities in a given situation, it allowed my mind to let go of that fixation and to see things in a more balanced way.
Eventually it became obvious that nothing was absolutely true, beliefs in general became soft or transparent. That isn’t to suggest I don’t have any beliefs left, it just means most of them let go easier and more quickly than they once did. It isn’t necessary to go through a process for them to release anymore (in fact this became counter-productive), it is enough for them to be seen. Sometimes things have to be seen repeatedly, sometimes once is enough. There are still things that arise all the time and have to be seen for them to move on and I expect it to continue on this way indefinitely. Simply put, it is a privilege to have this continual learning about myself and life.