I cannot agree with you more Etherfish. I too believe that there is good reason why God’s creation exists and individuization exists. This is what I wrote in my opening post. I’m happy when you say it is not an obligation not be remain an individual.
I started this post in the middle of last year when I had just started AYP style meditation. Now I believe I have progressed a bit spiritually and willing to surrender more to life instead of resisting. But I still have one big question unresolved. I like it when Yogani says enlightenment is a continuous journey. But I feel sick when I read too many people saying they want to end the cycle of births and deaths (You can see Shanti has expressed the same desire in this thread above) . Many religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism seem to talk about ending the cycle of reincarnations. It is intuitively understandable that attachment to material things causes rebirth but what is not understandable is that attachment is the only thing that causes rebirth. Is is not an ego thing to manipulate the nature of existence, and trying to escape from reality? And it is never clear to me what these people intend to do once they do end the cycle. From what I understand, duties don’t cease to exist even after enlightenment, only they are broadened for the goodness of all. I can’t think of any reason other than selfish reasons of escaping from everyday life’s struggels when somebody wants to end the cycle. When I google for “cycle of births and deaths” I get so many hits, but when I put an additional filter “why end” I get no results. Why nobody on earth seems to question this ending the cycle?
Namaste Maximus:
Here’s yet another alternative perspective for you to consider. 
Perhaps there really is no cycle of reincarnations to worry about ending or continuing…in any state of consciousness. 
What then? How would that change the equation? Maybe the Budweiser beer folks are correct in their slogan…“You only go around once, so you gotta grab for all the gusto you can get.” This yoga’s for you, Bud! 
In any event, it feels to me as if anything which improves the quality of physical, mental, and spiritual life in each Present Moment…right here and right now…is also logically likely to insure at least the same quality of life hereafter…however that may turn out to be! 
I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough, and in the meantime I find my Yoga Sadhana practices to be some of the best tools in my personal toolbox for acquiring and maintaining a high quality of life on every level of Being. Waste not…want not, don’t ya know? 
Hari OM!
Doc
Doc I fully agree with your point about living in the present moment. But it doesn’t answer my question. You say “Perhaps there really is no cycle of reincarnations to worry about ending or continuing…in any state of consciousness”. But so many people believe that the cycle exists and it may well be a fact. I believe it exists as well. My question is why do people and religions try to end it? And to what end?
Maximus:
My point is…what difference does it make? Why do you remain attached to having answers that you couldn’t possibly verify in any event? 
Wouldn’t your time and energy be more productively directed into a regular Sadhana practice? 
It is imminently more probable, IMO, that everything you wish or need to know for your Self-Realization will come to you via Deep Meditation and Contemplative Prayer practices, not through intellectual analysis and philosophical conjecture.
Hari OM!
Doc
Hi Maximus,
I think some reasons why people may try to end the cycle of births and deaths could be:
- they may see the earthly life as a more limited form of existence than what they can enjoy if they can transcend it
- to become fully united with God
- they may feel that they can serve life better after having transcended it
- they may see life in a physical body as a learning experience, and, when mastered, they want to go on to the next step of evolution, which is living independent of a physical body
Hi Weaver!
The reasons you list are all excellent motivations to pursue the full Self-Realization of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, IMO…aside from all considerations of whether or not reincarnation is an actual reality.
Hari OM!
Doc
Thanks Doc I will take the advice.
Weaver, thanks for for the explanation. No thank you, I’m content being a human being and not transcending it.
Maybe the “ending the cycle of birth and death” thing is just another fallacy of linguistics.
I believe the goal is to end being forced to reincarnate.
Obviously many great saints, Buddhas, and enlightened beings continue to come to earth even after they achieve union.
It’s the difference between riding a horse and being dragged along behind one because your foot is caught in the stirrup.
Personally I believe I’ve been enlightened many many times, but I continue to come back to this plane in order to help other beings. However, this is my choice I am not forced by an ignorance of how energy and the universe works to continue coming to this planet.
As far as dissolving yourself goes, it’s really another misunderstanding of language.
What is dissolved are all the beliefs which limit how you see yourself and what you are capable of.
For example.
2 years ago I believed myself to be miserable and so different from anyone else that I could never have any truly fulfilling relationships.
Now I believe myself to be an enlightened, unlimited, immortal, spiritual being who has an entire life in this body with which he can be a benefit to others. I imagine a world where every being has realized that its most essential nature is the same as the universe itself, and I am here to do my part to see that future realized.
I’ve never felt more peace, joy, or love in my life. I have never been MORE myself.
That is what dissolution did for me.
Why would you fear that?
Great answer AccidentalYogi, thanks. You say
“Obviously many great saints, Buddhas, and enlightened beings continue to come to earth even after they achieve union”
Obvious? How do you say that?
I guess “obviously” probably wasn’t the correct word
I’ve read a good deal about modern Yogi’s and saints, but I suppose it really depends more upon your own faith to say whether or not you believe they exist or not.
I do.
Just wanted to say what a great thread it was and I think the questions you ask, Maximus, are very relevant.
I asked it myself and could not understand it. I started being “formally spirtiual” quite recently (by this I mean actively seeking the spiritual literature etc.). I think it was my inner longing for knowledge and fascination with the mistery of life that brought me to this, and finally to advanced yoga. I am happy about it but a bit puzzled, like you.
I think it is healthy to question the assumptions you read when you start on this spiritual quest. It is like a child asking questions trying to understand things. After all it is all words anyway and concepts etc. so they are prone to misunderstanding. The truth remains as one. I think!
I also wondered about ego and like you say the transcendence of birth and death. This 2 concepts have negative conotations in teh spiritual literature. Why is that so? Aren’t these things part of creation, part of the almighty god? Aren’t judgements of value (good vs. bad) qualities of dualism and teh mind, things that yoga wants to transcende anyway? So, why wanting to transcende the beauty of the reality we have? Like you MAximus, it seems to me a wanting to escape. Fortunately I sense it is not like this to everybody, a lot of people engage in it for the sake of realisation and understanding and union with god, which I find noble. But why then deny reality?
Well for me it’s like this: I believe God is Love (or like to believe this!) and if ‘he’ loves you then he wants the best for you. So, although the mistery may remain, you have faith. That might be enough for some people. I guess teh bottom line must be: enjoy life! If you are not enjoying it then find out why or the means to make it more enjoyable! Yoga does that to me!
I am an explorer. I am curious about my nature or identity. I do not think I will be destroyed for experiencing how I fit in with something much larger. If eventual non-duality is the outcome that is still okay with me. Acceptance of whatever comes, without attachment, may be the crux of the matter.