Great point Katrine, if practices aren’t being done twice daily as prescribed or if self-pacing isn’t being honored, then progress can’t accurately be measured. If we find ourselves irritable in our daily life then cutting down practices for a while might reveal the progress that has been made.
I think it is also important to note that we will often find what we are looking for. Fear of no progress or that we can’t progress can certainly impact our perspective and ability to see change. The good news is with enough practice, that will eventually go to. 
I don’t think a day goes by where I don’t pray with my entire being for the desired result. Progress begins with intense Bhakti the most sincere desire to change will light the fire.
Hi All:
It is an essential question, and with wonderful answers posted. Isn’t it interesting how many angles there are to it?
This is an important discussion, particularly as it relates to those who are sincere in their spiritual desire (bhakti), and are willing to consistently apply means designed to move forward, even in the face of limited visible progress. I have much admiration for such practitioners – their patience and persistence indicate great spiritual strength.
While clear answers and means for overcoming stubborn blocks to perceived progress in everyone are not fully formulated at this stage, I think in time we will see the causes and effects of practice further optimized, so even those who have had ongoing doubts will find through their own experience enough inspiration to fuel their journey for as long as it takes. This is the essence of self-directed spiritual practice, which is by definition self-motivated. It begins with our commitment to our chosen ideal (bhakti), and acting on that every day as best we can in our practices and daily life.
Obviously, there should be some sense of “effect” from the “causes” we are implementing, or why continue on the same track indefinitely? It is up to our teachers and the spiritual community at large to continue working on optimizing the most effective means, so we can get to the point where no one will feel they are lacking in progress for long. In time, we will get our arms around it. We must. No sincere practitioner will be left behind.
For those of us who are less willing to take responsibility for our spiritual unfoldment, well, there is only so much that others can do for us. Spiritual knowledge is only useful when it is sincerely and consistently applied toward fulfilling our aspirations for something more in life. In other words, all spiritual progress begins and ends within us. This is why we say…
The guru is in you.
Eitherway, I’m in a similar situation as you, though I don’t practice AYP.
I was planning on practicing AYP for a long time, but I wasn’t feeling anything and the Kunlun seminar came into town. So, I decided to give Kunlun a shot. Though about 90% of all the people at the seminar, opened up I wasn’t one of them. It was kinda strange seeing people bounce up and down, scream, cry, laugh, and shout but not be a part of it.
I figured that I needed time, so I practiced Kunlun stuff for 4 and a half months, but nothing happened.
Now, I’m doing KAP (Kundalini Awakening Process by Glenn Morris), but I haven’t been feeling much.
One thing I’ve realized is that the practioner makes the practice, so to speak. When people talk about powerful spiritual practices, they mean powerful for SENSITIVE people. You can give someone the most powerful technique in the world, but if they’re not sensitive, then they won’t feel anything.
I realize how impatient I must seem in switching practices twice in about 15 months, but I think I made the right decision.
I’m not saying to switch, I’m just saying that AYP isn’t the only powerful system out there.
Just out of curiosity, how far are you in the practices? You can probably afford to push the envelope, so to speak.
I wonder if anyone here was born insensitive and became sensitive, so to speak. And by insensitive, I mean INSENSITIVE. As in not being able to meditate or do anything spiritual at all.
I’ll also ask at the Tao Bums, for my sake as well as yours.
Hi Seeker of truth,
Actually, I started the thread to gather advice and pass to those who feel they are not seeing signs of progress.
I, myself, have been very lucky. I started ayp in Jan. of 2007 and for some reason, my instinct said this was it. Never really practiced yoga before save for reading some J. Krishnamurti and attempting his form of witness meditation. Also, I practiced spinal breathing from by a book by Norman Paulsen (I believe one of Yogananda’s students) for a couple of weeks. The latter lead to some buzzes up my spine when I urinated and I started doing a search on the web for this and found ayp. I actually went over board on the practices in the start and had a rough couple of months before I discovered the forum and self pacing.
Looking back, I had a really rough few years between 2001-2006. Between family, school, and personal troubles, I was basically on my knees. In fact, although, I have never been religious, I just got on my knees and couldn’t handle the frustration anymore, and started talking to God. I remember saying, I have no idea what you are, no idea how to address you, no idea about much of anything anymore. I just want to know, live, and share the truth. Fulfill the potential and purpose that my existence is for. Please forgive me for all that I have done wrong (have done more than the average person) and lead me to truth. And actually soon after, I found ayp and it just clicked for me.
As far as turning insensitive persons into sensitive, I am thinking convincing yourself to practice for a couple of years without much reinforcement indicates sensitivity in some form. For me the insensitive, just don’t get yoga and don’t care about this not getting (nothing wrong with this-each has his own path). I am not belittling them (my wife is this way), but it seems they still think the world, i.e, materialism, is enough. Of course, none of us are trying to leave the world behind and I’m sure further explanation is not necessary.
Also, sensitivity must vary with experiences and current outlook. I don’t think any one could have convinced me to start a ayp like system earlier in my life. Suffering seems like a natural catalyst for this sensitivity but then again there are plenty who suffer but not enough or maybe too much to get on their knees and still others who find yoga without suffering.
I think the following have been helpful to me:
- talking to God. Sobbing, crying hysterically, asking for help and guidance. Of course this can’t be faked but frustration from not seeing progress can be enough of an impetus.
- Preservation and Cultivation of sexual energy - All those yogi’s are right. Just don’t go for broke all at once, otherwise, it will be counter productive for most.
- Diet- For me, more than being vegetarian vs. omnivore, the super catalyst is fasting. I actually did a 10 day water fast in 2001 and I remember a start of a buzzing sound in my head. I don’t know what this was and it went away soon, but I feel it was the start of something. There is nothing like fasting to quiet a unruly mind. Not that it won’t come back, but just its quieting down is amazing for a person who has had a over active mind for a companion their whole lives.
Of course, as Yogani has warned, we all have a tendency to look for and find a magic bullet. There probably isn’t one but these are probably good supplements for the base practices of meditation and pranayama.
take care,
Eitherway
Eitherway,
I think your advice is excellent!..I have never tried a fast. I’m a real snackaholic late at night and will try it.
…You may have hit the nail on the head…more tapas…more spiritual progress…
Thanks for your insight Eitherway!
Of course, there is no magic bullet when it comes to spirituality stuff.
And, I’m definitely way too impatient when it comes to spirituality. 
Also, it’s good to be dedicated.
So, if you think AYP is what’s good for you, then great! Stick with it. However, AYP is no more a magic bullet than any other system.
Sorry, if I’m a bit of an AYP traitor 
, just trying to help out.
some may smack themselves in the head with a hammer untill they loose the mind, would ayp not be more beneficial then this? AYP aims at cleansing the nervous system through various techniques that seem to be pretty powerful. my question would be do you base your statement off of exeprience? and only if you practice to the fullest extent can you say experience.
i am love, i am peace, i am joy
i am your brother
i am neil
I would agree that AYP is better than smacking yourself with a hammer. 
My statement that AYP isn’t a magic bullet isn’t my words, I was repeating what Yogani said: that there isn’t a magic bullet in spirituality stuff.
But, then again, I am not basing this off of a lot of experience…
And, p.s., my name is niel also, but with an i e instead of an ei
Eitherway, thank you for your post, your story was truly beautiful and inspiring.
Hi Seeker of Truth,
No disagreement here about there not being a magic bullet. However, I have to disagree with you on the use of this term. A “magic bullet” is generally thought (in spiritual discussions) of as ONE Practice that is purported to take the practitioner all the way (e.g, fasting, bramacharya, advaita style jnana, etc…)
Ayp, on the other hand, is a whole set of practices that Yogani has set up by taking the best techniques from different schools (in his opinion of course) within the overall yoga philosophy.
Ayp, does resonate for a whole lot of us because of the wide variety of practices and the integrated, cultural baggage free sort of presentation. I have no doubt that there are plenty of other systems that would work as well. After all history points to mystics from all the major religions and quite clearly they varied in their approach. I believe, the only true requisite, as Nisargadatta stated is sincerity, although unfortunately there isn’t a time frame given for it.
Human history is littered with religious wars mostly based on the notion that mine is “truer” than yours. The last thing we want to do is carry this misunderstanding into our practices. So, practice what resonates with you. It all surely will lead to the same.
take care,
Eitherway
p.s- thanks to all. Please contribute more specifics from your experiences if possible. Thanks yogaislife and machart for your kind words.
anthem said
“Great point Katrine, if practices aren’t being done twice daily as prescribed or if self-pacing isn’t being honored, then progress can’t accurately be measured. If we find ourselves irritable in our daily life then cutting down practices for a while might reveal the progress that has been made.”
I relate to this very well. I was becoming real irratable and then pretty much quit all my practices and things opened up. Now I have gone back to consistent practice with a greater understanding. Before I was trying to evolve on during sitting practices and was frustrated why life was not getting better. Now i am doing practices and have brought more awareness the rest of the day, this combination has lead to less suffering and more times of being in the moment. Basically now if an undesirable thought comes up I just try and breath into it and let it go.
The thought of where I am headed, not sure, just trying to let it go. A couple things I have added that may have helped, grounding activities per yoganis suggestion and eating more purples and blues, upper chakra colors. For me the most difficult thing is not knowing, I am just letting that go. I have been having increased vibrations in other parts of body where before it was just base of spine occasionally. What does it mean, energy is moving, other then that I will keep with the practices and find out when I get there
one thing I do know, when at a yoga class last night and I heard the people singing, it felt as I was with the voices of angels, words cannot describe that experience, but I felt it.
i am letting go now
i am
neil
Hi Neil
This is great, Neil
Hi Eitherway,
Anything specific you want to know?
Patience is the most important aspect of yoga practice i reckon. When you give up the fruits of work you have no expectations for definite ends and the work is better. Same with Yoga. Plus, patience dissolves anger, frustration and other emotions, which is very important for attaining a balanced, fearless mind.
i would agree that sincerity is very important, maybe the only important!
i have been practicing Nisargadatta’s advice in his book “I am that” for like a year or so.
it’s been great, but at a certain time not too long ago… i felt stuck.
the thing that sparked my interest in meditation were some very strong experiences of enlightenment that were fueled by psychedelic substances.
because i felt stuck, i wondered if i would ever be able to be enlightened sober…
there are monks who meditate for years and still not achieve enlightenment, so i wondered if maybe doing a psychedelic again would be able to help me a bit. on the other hand i feared that all the progress i had made by being somewhat meditative… and abstaining from all consciousness-altering-substances completely…
that i would perhaps “lose” what i had already “gained”.
i decided to take the “trip” anyway,
and 2 months later i still feel like i have benefited.
the reason why i say i feel i have benefited is because,
i have now more intuitive feeling with being meditative.
meditative being such as that of Nisargadatta,
“clear seeing”, “being the witness”, “being sincere”… “simply being without anything else”…
even though these techniques sound simple, the mind makes the most simple thing look different than it is.
nisargadatta himself said in the book “i am that”,
that at a certain point in time there must be a little explosion.
a change in consciouness, where instead of being the witness… one changes into being the Witness.
the difference between witness and Witness,
is that while being the witness… one is a person who does some kind of practice…
but while being the Witness… on realize that one is not a person… and one realize that he is THAT.
so according to the book I AM THAT,
the change that must occur is the change from experiencing oneself as the body/personality…
to experiencing himself as the ONE PURE AWARENESS.
and that “change” is what i think is very important,
because it is the time when the “I” falls… and no-self remains…
and that is what i think what nisargadatta meant with his term “explosion”.
i have little explosions sober now and then,
but that experience of a couple of months ago helped me to explode a bit more,
something which at the time i didn’t feel like i could do… as i’d been feeling stuck for a while.
me personally, i shall try psychedelics again soon or later.
i don’t know if i shall continue using them,
because i know that they can easily become a way to “hold myself back”…
and also because i don’t know if they can give me any more benefit.
so, at the moment i feel like i have benefited from that psychedelic experience,
even months after i have taken the psychedelic…
simply because it has given me more intuitive feeling with how to simply “be” (or perhaps better said: how to not be )
the problem is that although i practice the meditative being,
and even though i am quite sincere at being meditative, i’m not sincere 100%.
and to be in the enlightened state, one must be sincere 100%.
the psychedelic experience of a few months ago,
i have felt extremely enlightened… no self left at all to feel “enlightened”…
but slowly the old patterns i started making again and again.
that’s what being sincere means…
to not make the patterns. to be willing to see the patterns.
to be willing to see the persoN… to be willing to no longer be that person…
if we are interested in something of this world,
we become a someone… and a someone is always a broken reflection of the PURE LIGHT that is TRUE-SELF…
the pure light can only be, when we do not become or continue to be the personality…
it is in the absense of self, that there is the experience of TRUE-SELF (a.k.a. enlightenment).
this is why TRUE-SELF can not be witnessed, because everything that is witnessed requires a witness…
an alternative way of putting this to words is that,
the one one was once a prisoner of his own imagination…
after liberation no longer exists.
there are no liberated ones,
because as long as there is… someone there is captivity.
because it was the very act of imagining to exist, and playing that role…
that cause the experience of being a person…
and I THINK that a person,
no matter what kind of person that may be,
inevitably means unhappiness… a.k.a. suffering.
I May be wrong!
so nisargadatta say we are all BRAHMAN/VISHNU & SHIVA.
we are the creator of the Person, We Sustain and experiences ourself as the person, And we can stop sustaining (a.k.a. destroy).
so for enlightenment
“it is not what we do that matters, but what we don’t do.” - nisargadatta.
as a final note, coming back to “sincerity”…
who is it that has problems as well as unhappiness, therefor making effort to become enlightened?
it is the person which becomes enlightened.
and there is only enlightenment (selflessness),
when the person 100% sincerily no longer wants to be a person (giving up the thirst for experience)…
when there is 5% thirst for worldly experience,
and 95% giving up trying to satisfy the endless thirst…
then full enlightenment can not be achieved.
so one takes it as far as one wants to,
and as far as one can…
and even if the thirst for worldly experience would be 50%
then the 50% of no longer trying to satisfy the thirst, will help no longer create as much bad karma…
and therefor one will become a happier person anyway.
but meditative practice is never in vain.
maybe energy work such as QiQong or AYP can help to bring little, or big explosions.
maybe a psychedelic experience can do so too…
but by looking at nisargadatta or ramana maharshi,
i’d say that a simple “not this, not that” technique is enough to have very strong effects…
and perhaps all other techniques are just ways to keep our selves busy?
though i do believe that walking different directions lead to different ends.
so which direction one should to take depends on where one wants to go.
i suspect there are different kinds of enlightenment.
my apologies for rant
it is what i do, because i am a ranter 
Thanks for sharing, Dr. Love
And welcome to the forum
I agree with seekeroftruth on the sensitive versus insensitive division thing. I somehow started feeling strongly of late that spiritual success is only for chosen few and the average man like me wastes his time there.
I dont agree though with seekeroftruth on his comments about AYP. I feel it is a great compilation of wisdom put together with amazing simplicity for the benifit of mankind. I will ever be grateful to yogani for that. Yes it may not be a magic bullet but first show me one that is. There is no magic bullet in yoga. period.
The insensitive people may never get it. Toil all life and get bored of it and may leave. I see some people here like katrine, anthem11 who showed great progress with AYP and speak of great experiences. I feel they are blessed to be born like that. It is definitely not hardwork alone. You need to have the aptitude to succeed in spiritual world.
Ofcourse these are not negative statements and I will continue my efforts. I dont believe switching systems will help either. It will only worsen things if anything.
Ofcourse, I definitely see somethings missing in my efforts; Craving for truth or bhakti, moral regulations etc… I think just meditation alone wont do. You really need to want it, long for liberation. Be moderate in things, practise karma yoga, take responsibility for your actions etc…
Near,
What comments of mine, do you disagree with?
I have no doubt that is an amazing system, and I could go on and on giving AYP compliments that it deserves, but that still doesn’t mean that it works for everyone.
As for whether some people arent sensitive enough and can’t get any results…I hope that isn’t the case. I’m almost 100% sure that anyone can meditate successfully because of brainwave entrainment. Brainwave entrainment literally forces your brain into a meditative state. If KAP doesn’t work out, then my plan is to do brainwave stuff hardcore.
My theory about the insensitivity thing is that a calm mind is fundamental to spiritual practice. A lot of energy work requires concentration, and concentration requires a calm mind. THis is supported by Glenn Morris who said that a calm mind is the requirement for the rest of the KAP stuff.
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but maybe not.
I don’t want to stop spiritual practice, but if I never get any results for years, then I’ll be forced to quit…
I admire the fact that you can be so dedicated to AYP without any result. But, I don’t think that just because you start a system doesn’t mean you have to stick with the rest of your life…
Switching isn’t necessarily a bad thing, IMO, but it can be excessive
Hi DrLove,
Yes, this is how I see it too. There is a necessity to give 100% in everything on this path if you want to go all the way home.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your ranting!
it is probably already said before in this thread,
but one thing which helped and still helps me make progress…
is not wanting to make progress.
when sitting on a meditation cushion, in front of a computer or when walking or working…
it is by letting go of wanting to feel good…
letting go of that which wants to feel good… letting go of the mind…
which helps me be free.