…or drop the insights and erudition and simply realize that “Om” is the natural sound your body makes without any effort (though most hatha yogis turn it into a much more striving sound…a lesson there!).
It’s a nice step toward surrender. Frank, you know a TON. You’re an incredible resource for us all. But as the jazz musicians say, once you’ve learned it, you’ve got to forget it! 
Hari Om
Hello Jim,
Thanks for the reply … I think I would say " once you learned it, pass it on"
Being a guitar player myself (mediocre @ best) the shoe fits! Once you “learn it” to me means, you have incorporated it into your memory banks… now, when possible, pay it forward.
… the teacher gains more the the student.
thanks again.
Peace,
Frank in San Diego
Hi frank,
Frankly telling,i enjoyed your explanation of OM i gita and mandukya.And the fourth letter amaatra and turiya is something new to me.Anything about practising the om chanting to realise this amaatra?Then it will be very useful.If not ,then also its inspiring.
thanks.
vijay kumar
I enjoyed it too, fwiw!
Hari OM
Namaste Mumuksu,
With your request lets take turiya (or the 4th) first… a new post on amaatra will then make sense.
Turiya or the 4th level of consciousness is called Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness, once stable and part of ones daily silence.
On the way to God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana, there are certain levels of experience and consciousness the aspirant ( sadhu as they are called) will experience, a specific quality of the doer (us).
This is called naishkarmyam, a quality of non-attachment, where the doer enjoys freedom and the non-binding influence of actions.
So what is binding? - cause and effect. Rebirth into ignorance(that is, not knowing ones SELF). Unfulfilled desires is the reason one comes back to earth they say. So , How is this adjusted? This naishkarmyam experience of Self-consciousness ( but not yet God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana) is not overshadowed by any other state of consciousness e.g. waking dreaming or sleep. So why is this of any interest? Well, the evolution to God consciousness requires this level (naishkarmyam) to be established, as it forms the foundation for God Consciousness. the SELF finds itSELF separate from the field of activity. It’s underlying nature, and a quality of GOD as being all-pervasive. The SELF or Pure consciousness, is everywhere (like akasha or space, everywhere).
So , we begin to experience HIM within our SELF as separate from activity, a very personal experience. This is the experience of PURE CONSCIOUSNESS, or the Absolute, HIS transcendental form.
NOW,once this level of consciousness is stable ( called Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness), the individual can now go to the the next level, God Consciousness .
What that means is this Pure consciousness begins to be experienced through the senses. The eyes see HIM in HIS creation, the nose smells HIM, etc etc. His creation gets experienced buy the individual from a whole different level of appreciation - as an extension of ones SELF, which is HIM. (e.g. Divine Union) The person delights in his own SELF. Fullness of Life is reached 100% of the relative field of life ( Cars, family, job, expansion) is United with 100% of Pure Consciousness called SELF.
[ What is missing today, is the Pure consciousness part, that is why life/society is so unbalanced , we’re missing the 200% formula]
What’s the non-attachment deal? Well once you have established this consciousness, the individual (small) self becomes SELF. Your actions are in accord with Nature or the cosmic purpose ( dharma, expansion of happiness, Bliss, Sattva). You are doing HIS work.
Every thing becomes and extension of HIM and as the Veda’s say a person does the “Highest Good”. You have basically “non-attached” from the 3 Gunas that cause re-birth again and again ( this, in my humble estimation, is God’s compassion for us to try again to get it right - it is said that “no effort
is lost” - so if you get to the 20 yard line and ya don’t get to Cosmic Consciousness, it stays on your credit and is rolled over… )
Some key tenets on this … some folks over the millennium read the instructions for this and thought this state of consciousness is a “Mood” or behavior to emulate… so the thought was to become “non-attached” or act without desires. This is not the instructions.
Some thought that one had to become a recluse - not so , its a level of achievement both recluse and householder can enjoy. The key here is to “withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal” or transcend, then come back into activity and perform actions - infusing more and more Turiyatit Chetana into ones daily life - kinda like bleaching a piece of cloth in the sun , over time, the cloth turns white.
Last point - the SELF realizes itself to itSELF. We can only provide the runway or conditions for this to occur - hence mediation, prayers,(japa -or repetitions), reading scriptures, all conditions we do to set up the SELF to realize itSELF by itSELF.
patu sarvaih svarupair nah sada sarvatra sama-gah
May the Lord, who is all-pervasive in His various forms, protect us everywhere
Frank In San Diego
Thanx for all the information. After listening to Deepak Chopra I thought I was missing a lot in life for not doing the TM porgram. Then I found AYP and Im very happy.
mystiq
Hari OM
Hello mystiq,
This is a blessing - happiness is a wonderful thing these days, yes?
ONe very wise person said, “the universe rejoices when one finds thier way”…
A key compass-indicator of finding ones way is the experience of happiness.
AYAM ATMA BRAHMA
This Self is Brahman (Mandukya Upanishad of the Atharva Veda)
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
mystiq said:
Thanx for all the information. After listening to Deepak Chopra I thought I was missing a lot in life for not doing the TM porgram. Then I found AYP and Im very happy.
Mystiq,
to make you happier still, AYP includes all of the TM techniques and more supporting Kriyas which the TM-ers do not teach.
What TM teaches as the ‘basic technique’ is the ‘Deep meditation’ of AYP. The TM ‘Advanced technique’ is taught here as the mantra-modifications. The ‘TM-Siddhis’ are nothing more than the Samyamas. Not one of these techniques was invented by the Maharishi, and all of them are simply part of the indigenous Yoga knowledge in India ( though Maharishi did very wrongly claim (through his organization) to be the only one to have the authority to teach them)!!
Hari Om
Hello David ( et.al) -
One point worth noting ( and not of contention ) is the notion of Advanced Technique; I pass on the naming convention of many that call it the advancement in the technique. Nothing to do with TM, but lots to do with technique!
As one “advances” the mantra changes…to be more specific, it is added to. So , perhaps a bija mantra is used first ( this influences the first house of ones chart), then additional sound-vibrations are added to it, once the bija mantra is stable and bearing fruit.
Many a meditator is lost on the way-side when their eagerness or perhaps even the unknowledgeable instructor gives an unsuitable mantra. What could be unsuitable ? Its length or meter or even the sound that is unsuitible for the person’s profession. This info is part of Mantra-shastra.
Some folks my be fortunate to receive a “tailored” sound from a full-fledged skilled guru that walks the talk i.e. God-realized, (not your K-mart variety 
) - this is then called Gurupadesatoh mantam.
At some point , when there is an appetite from AYP and Yogani, we can look at the DNA of the sound/phonemes/akshara of mantra design e.g. their source ( Mantroddhara), repetitions ( Purascharna), delivery of the mantra ( Samshkara), etc. Perhaps with Yogani’s guidance.
Let me leave with one of my favorites - the Dwadasakhari Mantra ( Or twelve syllable - influencing ones 12th house - a Moksha house).
OM Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
Happy Holidays/Merry-Joyful Christmas to all.
Frank In San Diego
I found the tm mantra Shama very relaxing whereas Iam seems to energise more,would that be so because of it’s frequency compared to Shama.
also this thing about the TM mantra changing according to age and sex,so if someone at 20 uses the 20 year age mantra then when he/she is 60 you would expect them use a different one?
Snake,
I started TM in the 70’s. If I understand correctly, you’re assigned the mantra based upon your gender/year of birth at the time of initiation. For several years, I visited the local TM centers of the cities I lived in, went through the ‘checking’ process, etc. and was never given a new mantra. What a peaceful, blissful experience it was, to meditate with a group in the centers…
So to answer your question, I think the person at 60 would still be meditating with the same mantra they were initiated with. Perhaps someone who has attended the siddhi classes knows differently though–perhaps the mantras change as you progress through the advanced classes–that I don’t know!
I agree with all here that the transcendental meditation is almost identical with the AYP meditation practise. But, we were told to meditate sitting in a chair for TM, rather than cross-legged, but I always meditated cross-legged anyway. Felt right.
What a wonderful discussion this thread has been. I’m going to try to find the books that Frank mentioned–am so grateful he shares his knowledge in the forum.
It does sadden me to see the arguing and negative events in the current TM organization. But I always felt that Marharishi’s original intent was pure of heart and noble in goal—to aid in our common evolution. Somewhere it seems they’ve lost their way. And I’m so grateful to have found AYP. It was through these teachings that I’ve been able to learn about pranayama and samyama…
In light and love,
Kathy
thankyou for sharing Kathy,I agree with you about Marharishi.
Kathy,
I don’t quite agree that the organization deserves the description ‘pure of heart and noble in goal’, at least, not more than any old, typically mixed human organization does.
Note that having ‘good intentions’ or wonderful world plans is no indicator of purity. Hitler wanted no more than World Peace, though under the Third Reich, and as he saw it, it was nothing more than Natural Law which gave the Third Reich the authority to rule the world. As they say, ‘The road to hell is paved with good intentions’.
(I am not saying Maharishi was a ‘Hitler’ – this is just an illustration, but I do believe he shared unbridled narcissism with Hitler, though he was definitely higher in morality.
A note to forum aficionados: this looks on first glance like the infamous ‘reductio ad Hitlerum’ but it is not, since I am not making out that a person I am discussing with has views which lead to Hitler’s…)
This may come across as unpleasant, but I believe in calling a spade a spade — I believe the organization fell mainly because of deep narcissistic flaws in it’s founder, Maharishi. The Maharishi tried to build himself up to be something much greater than he was. As Jesus said, (my translation) ‘He who tries to put himself first will be last’.
Regards,
-David
Dear Kathy,
I also was taught to meditate sitting in a chair while prctising TM and I still do it this way and have no problems with it.I know some who lie down to meditate but I never felt comfortable with this.
‘It does sadden me to see the arguing and negative events in the current TM organization. But I always felt that Marharishi’s original intent was pure of heart and noble in goal—to aid in our common evolution. Somewhere it seems they’ve lost their way.’
I’m afraid he got some stick when ‘The Beatles’ were with him but it seems it was justified at the time.No matter what good intentions people start with there will always be somebody who for whatever reason decides that they weren’t so pure after all.You will always have the ‘knockers’ but don’t forget the good he did by raising the awareness of spirituality in the west probably more than anybody else has.
L&L
Dave
‘the mind can see further than the eyes’
Dave said:
No matter what good intentions people start with there will always be somebody who for whatever reason decides that they weren’t so pure after all.
There will also always be somebody who puts halos around certain people and will resent the criticism the behaloed get regardless of how much it is deserved.
The rules are simple: don’t criticise the guy on the pedestal.
And if someone criticises the guy on the pedestal, criticise him, but preferably by insinuation only, since it’s easier to hide behind insinuation…
Groups like Maharishi’s are severely damaged because there are people unwilling to criticise the guy on the pedestal.
The danger signs in Maharishi’s organization were there from the beginning, for those who could spot them. It was not at all a case of original purity turning sour. The lies were poured out at an early stage, always a bad sign that.
Beloved David Obsidian,
I didn’t say that the TM organization was ‘pure of heart and noble in goal’. I did say that I thought that was where Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s initial intent lay. But I don’t know him or his mind. From the beauty and grace of what I learned through TM in the early days, I felt it was so.
I don’t know why their organization fell, because I’m not a part of it. Perhaps you have an insight I don’t have.
Perhaps you are right that Jesus said ‘who puts himself first shall be last.’ I’m not a Christian but as a Rosicrucian, I think there is much to learn from the Bible as there is much to learn from all. Many Rosicrucians feel that the master is within, which is one of the things that drew me to Yogani’s teachings….the guru is in you. One verse I do love is how we are asked to live….to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly….
I’m done with this. Blessings to you.
In light and in love,
Kathy
Nagoyasea said:
I didn’t say that the TM organization was ‘pure of heart and noble in goal’.
Pardon me my lady! Indeed you did not say that!
Well, ummmm, let’s now consider my response to be to an imaginary poster who did! 
Yes, I do know more about the TM organization than most, having had a friend or two who was closely involved, even as a teacher, who has been deprived of a livelihood due to the dysfunctionality of the TM organization.
Blessings,
-D
Hari Om Tat Sat
Hello Kathy/David/Snake (et.al)
Interesting this post still has legs!
Kathy, your post is of interest. Its good to know that if a person started with an inital bija mantra at X years, and at 60 years of age s/he is still using it , that is a blessing!
The wise say , only dig one well. What do they mean? stay with that one sound/vibration so it bears fruit.
Now, the “advancement in the technique” suggests the addition of more bija sounds to the anchor bija given, like a string of pearls. These sounds are complementry to the inital bija given and improve the quality and effects thereof. What sounds are complimentary? Here some study is of great value. We can review, but it gets a little complex and will leave to a future post, yet will not do w/o Yogani’s concurrence.
That said, lets do a simple mantra that is uplifting (I think David said it was somewhat energizing for him, once he tried the mantra). We talked of RAM ( Raahmm) a few days ago. We can extend Ram, to add Sri Ram…then one can add Om Sri Ram Jay Ram ,or Om Ram Ramaya Namaha . I prefer the later. Why ? Fundamentally it has 8 sylables or astakshari and uses OM to start, as perscribed by the Upanishads.
Note that the lovely ‘a’ letter is ascribed to Krsna ( this is a good thing!). Note the number of a’s in the mantra come out to 8. How’d I get 8? OM is considered 1st, like ‘a’, then count the remaining 7, and ya got 8! What’s so special about 8? We can leave that to another time, if this group cares to pursue.
So, the ‘buildout’ of the mantra is done in stages, to allow the native to stablize the sound in the nervious system. This is all part of Mantra Shastra (or the science of sound vibrations).
Last point - again, not a point of contention, but one of clarification. TM mantras were mentioned in several posts throughout AYP. Our TM friends use bija sounds, and these sounds are part of the Veda. They like most use these time tested sounds from the sages that cognized these vibrations. They are not owned by the TM org, nor are the ‘owned’ by anyone on this planet. IF someone cares to patient or copyright these sounds, its , well I can’t even think of a work that equals mega-preposterous! These sounds are Svarupa-niripaka-dharma. That is, eternal qualities that are forever here, even when all ‘this’ goes away, these sounds come back with each creation.
Thank you for the opportunity to write about this… let me leave you with a favorite, the Surya Graha Mantra,as surya heads north starting late tomorrow night. Om Hram Hrim Hroum Sah Suryaya Namaha
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
Thankyou for sharing that Frank,most interesting.
Just for the record the Shama mantra I mentioned earlier you did’nt really comment on that one and also what’s your take on how TM changes some of it’s mantras over time as in some years at certain age they gave Shiama then from last few years now Shama?
thanks again
Chris
Hari Om
Hello Chris,
Thanks for the note… I can’t comment much on how our TM friends choose to change their mantras. I would believe its more administrative then anything that could be directed to Mantra Shastra.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego