Swami Mangalananda Giri

[sunyata]

P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this

LOL, Sey. I say the same thing. The only way this would happen is if I delete my account.
Charliedog-
Just to add to what Charliedog said. You experience non duality in every day life. This does not mean you speak in non dual language. One learns to let go of everything. The mind can claim anything, even “Enlightenment”, stages of Samadhi, different experiences.
Surrender, Flow and Joy seems to be the fruits of practice. With this~ Stillness in action happens automatically.

[Charliedog]

to you Sunyata, Sey and Holy

[So-Hi]

Replies To Holy:

Before starting with the meditation, she mentioned that the lower chakras seem to give a reason to stay there, but there is noone holding you from going up she added. And right she is, with the right approach, going up is always possible independent of the remaining karmas in the lower centers.

Just because a thing is possible does not make it
A. Safe
B. The thing one should be doing
C. What is actually needed
D. The proper thing depending upon which Ashram of life one is currently in.

Hari’s kriya cannot be praised enough for making it possible to open the crown so easily.

Ahem… Paramahamsa Hariharananda if you do not mind due respect and all that. No? Yes his techniques do.

And to the suprise here, the last event with Mangalananda showed, that the crown was ready then (3 years ago) as it is now. So why all the wait for the crown?

Based on your forum activity I would say you were exploring and needed to explore to come full circle in your particular and unique individual case.
The thing to be cautious about is for others to read your emotional charged and encouraging words and think what is true for you as a unique individual is true for others as well or to give others such an impression.
For exams I have known 4 types of Students of Paramahamsa Hariharananda.
1.) Get nothing out of the practices whatsoever at all they lack refined development and the ability to even feel prana so the triple divine qualities are impossible for them to perceive.
2.) Those who have severe overload and depersonalizing of there day to day interrelation with life.
3.)Those who are escaping from life often these are found to behave like groupies to the Swamis as if they were a rock band like the living dead and can be seen following them everywhere.
4.) Those who are ripe.
Which one are you? based on your sharing it would appear you believe yourself to be category #4
Here is a question to ponder and one I will answer.
If a person is not ripe for these practices then how will they become ripe?
Answer = by doing something else that does not involve the crown. A yogin must purify the nadis first.
AYP however does not focus on any chakra like the different and some faulty schools of practice calling themselves Kriya.
AYP does use Spinal Breathing but even that purifies beyond a specified route.
AYP is not targeted but global in it’s approach to purification which is why Deep Meditation is at it’s core the rest of the techniques are in reality are just helpers including spinal breathing but everything really is there in deep meditation.
At a certain point in a practitioners life I would surmise the two most important AYP Practices are going to be Deep Meditation and Samyama with Mahamudra mixed in to keep the spine in good shape and regulate prana in the body.

But at the same time, it is obviously always possible to just leave it as it is and directly merge into nonduality and freedom from all the process by means of going up.

Yes once you know how it is always possible, but escapism is not the reason you incarnated here is it?
Gee wiz hmm I think I will take birth just so I can wander around for X amount of years blasted out of my mind just hanging out until the body perishes.
Nahhh didn’t think so.
Caution not to become Type 2 or Type 3 all the while thinking you are Type 4
Only the individual can know when they have fulfilled their purpose for being here and if there is a doubt that you have fulfilled that purpose then the answer is simple = you have not.
No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
If one has not then a far more sane approach would be to continue your global purification and allow things to come in a manageable way while keeping a life of productive interaction with the world and continue to learn from life the very reason you are here in the first place.
Make no mistake about it LIFE on this world is everyones Sadhana or spiritual practice anything and everything contrived of and created by mankind is nothing more than ways to accelerate what is already happening but there are always questions we must always ask ourselves like
Am I accelerating towards a curve in the road too fast or am I just escaping the sadhana of life because it is perhaps too Slow? Boring? too Challenging?
If the answer is it is to slow and I am ready for something more then by all means “ Self Pace yourself in your chosen way.
This can also include perhaps working a job,becoming a husband, a father and live your life as a participating in life yogi until such time as you have fulfilled your reasonably expectable allowed time on this earth baring disease and complications and when you approach your 60’s kick out all the stops and focus on your impending transition out of the body by going Crown all the way and abiding in the crown at all times after all you have done your duty to the world and the reason you came here is mostly fulfilled by defacto of the decades gone by, that is if you applied yourself to the sadhana of being here now up till then with global purification.

Manga spoke of the cloud 7 and the illusion of believing that you have to do something below it to be allowed to go to cloud 7.

Some hold dogmatic beliefs of this nature but I think I pretty well already answered this.

Looking into the body-mind here, asking this question to myself, the only thing I can see are remaining whishes/concepts in regards to the 6 chakras, like doing this in life first, then and only then it is ok… Do any of you have this aswell?

Again answered above. But I will add that there comes a time when it is natural to go into the crown and it just takes time to learn how to do it just right like when you cook something if you leave it on the stove too long you will burn an otherwise fine meal.

Or what is the reason for you to holding back from dissolving into nonduality?

I dies daily.

And is it really doing so or do you want to be hold back by it (for whatever reasons, like perhaps fear of the unknown up there)?

Sorry have gone way past this question and it holds no relevance, see above.
Replies to Sey:

I certainly want to. I feel ready / on the brink so to speak - but it is not happening. At least not in the way some describe as a specific recognizable event. Yogani says it will happen once I stop desiring it and yet we have to desire it - “desire-less desire” as Gurunath calls it.
I take it as a final act of Grace.

The desire is not yours, it comes on it’s own as a primal she energy and presence and gives such unimaginable pleasure and bliss the you find yourself swept up in the union. You are then led to the knowings that make the union possible.

Or… and I’m beginning to suspect this, it is a slow integration that can happen without any fanfare of an (reportedly glorious but unstable) event(s).

Depends on the approach it can be a slow integration I am sure in fact your entire existence through many lives leads up to it, is that slow enough?
Unstable is a judgmental and conditional phrase which that only your own first hand experience and reflection can validate and determine and never an outsider will comprehend as it is all internal and specific to the individual here generalities will not serve.
One thing is for certain it will be glorious. Entering the crown and beyond each and every time is glorious by comparison to the state prior to doing so when a certain technique is used.
Reply to Holy.

It is just a matter of collecting prana and concentrating it in the crown. Thats all. Nothing else to do and nothing else to wait for.

Ouch such a rough utilitarian approach might as well dig a bullet out of a gunshot victim with a gardening shovel.
There is much, much more to it than this. It is not just prana which is the subtle form of breath there is also mind dissolving which is the subtle form of prana followed by both intellect and instinct. Then you have unity.
The question is though are you suited for this existence? the individual must answer this.

Shurely we are speaking from the standpoint, that the body-mind has been purified enough to handle it.

There is no Surety of anything of this nature communicated to complete strangers let alone over the internet for whomever may chance upon this conversation.
This is part of the reason AYP has taken ownership and responsibility for that which is discussed and has necessitated the advent of the paid for plus site now that Yogani is retired and can no longer afford the site upkeep on a retired persons savings.
But I digress this is also why in honorable and responsible Kriya traditions students are taken care of after the initiation and instruction.

But you can remain in the purified body-mind for too long without the nonduality of the crown coming into your life

Correct, The question is though are you suited for this existence? the individual must answer this.
There is no non addressing of this if you practice in the way of Baba Hariharananda then you will get this wether you pay attention or not, in fact it will be impossible not to live in this intoxication.
By the very nature of non duality it can not be discussed and when it is there is always a failure.
A better way to discuss this is to do what you have and correctly explain it as expanded states of consciousness. Anything you can experience and report is within the realm of Human creatures ability to to contain or perceive and you can go beyond this but when you do you will become as the doll made of salt and dissolve and eventually if taken far enough your consciousness will expand beyond the level of a human animal to contain and your body will die because it will no more be a suitable place for you to express.
After all what do you think Nirvakalpa Samadhi is?
One day it will happen too many either by accident or on purpose and all who once knew you will say the doctor said he died of a heart attack.
All in it’s own good time better to discharge your duties to life while slowly learning how to voluntarily leave the body instead of becoming evicted once the cancer diagnosis is given and hospice is your future followed by a slow morphine drip to sleep, or not it is really up to the individual.
Reply to Sunyata
Paying for something received is honorable and the way the world works and if someone is in a stage of their personal development needs what you have described or instruction then how is this any different from paying for any other goods or services real or imagined it is all in the perception of the customer as to wherein lies the value no?
We pay for AYP Plus for similar reasons, and while it is far more affordable again that is depending on who is doing the paying and there financial status.
Reply to SeySorcerie

Prhaps therein lies my confusion and ignorance of the matter. You see, hearing talk of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (am I right to assume this would involve the transcendental Oneness with the whole universe?), I understood it that one must have penetrated the crown chakra and the more often one gets in and out of this state, until it stabilizes, the better and this is what is needed to gain stable 24/7 nonduality.
Lesson 333 says no need for all that but it is a matter of dissolving the Witness in Unity
From Lesson 333

Honest answer and the only honest answer there is if you can put Nirvakalpa Samadhi into words then you do not know, you are only theorizing. You will know when it occurs and that is the truth.

I have and do experience all that I perceive as within me, sometimes for days on end. This has come about as a slow process of daily practices. But I did not count this as nonduality. Seeing the Universe inside of me is a much rarer event and of short duration. Exploding (It feels like an explosion and zooming out endlessly, instantaneously and for some reason, Jesus always appears to ‘catch’ me) into the universe does not make me One with it, does it? I just have suddenly become much much bigger.
I feel like to stop writing as I feel like I am talking rubbish. #65532;
Forget the Universe - let us take the example of the cat. Seeing the cat walk by within me, does not make me one with the cat, in my opinion. I am just bigger and contain the cat. I have no idea how the cat is feeling.

The cat does not have the capacity of consciousness you as a human being are capable of if it were to suddenly the cat would die.
Think of Nirvakalpa Samadhi / Unity in these theoretical terms the Nirvakalpa Samadhi and conscious awareness of a cat is less than the waking state of consciousness of a human. The same is true of a human but in comparison to what I as a human cannot say.

P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this and just plunk my bum onto my seat everyday and keep at it - talking does not make me know anything, practice does #65532;#65532;

Yes but it took all this talking to get you to make this important public service announcement and therein lies the value.

[sunyata]

Paying for something received is honorable and the way the world works and if someone is in a stage of their personal development needs what you have described or instruction then how is this any different from paying for any other goods or services real or imagined it is all in the perception of the customer as to wherein lies the value no?

Hi So-Hi,
I don’t want this thread to take a wrong turn. Best if we let this go. My love and respect for Yogani is always overflowing. If it wasn’t for his generous writings, my Life would not have been what it is today. Sometimes, this flows in my posts- my apologies if this affected you in anyway. I love you, too.

Sunyata

[Charliedog]

The desire is not yours, it comes on it’s own as a primal she energy and presence and gives such unimaginable pleasure and bliss the you find yourself swept up in the union. You are then led to the knowings that make the union possible.

[OM]

[So-Hi]

Lol no we are good

@sunyata

quote:

Hi So-Hi,
I don’t want this thread to take a wrong turn. Best if we let this go. My love and respect for Yogani is always overflowing. If it wasn’t for his generous writings, my Life would not have been what it is today. Sometimes, this flows in my posts- my apologies if this affected you in anyway. I love you, too.

Sunyata

---

[Holy]

Hi all,
thanks for all the nice posts Will come back to you after the weekend. Holy @spiritualvacation
Peace and happy practice friends!

[orangesky]

Hello Holy, I wish you a wonderful retreat with the boss, Gurunath , and many many strong Shivapaths [OM]
Have fun!

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Coming back to AYP classic lesson 333 (if it differs from the plus lesson), there is no direct relation to the crown and nonduality.

Hi Holy,
All the lessons on the AYP public site that have not been reduced, are the same as the ones in the AYP Plus site, and the same as the ones in the books (Easy Lessons, Vol 1 and Vol 2). In AYP Plus, there are many additions to the lessons, and where they occur, they are added on to the bottom of the relevant lesson.
These are some of the lesson additions that Yogani has added which are relevant to the opening and purification of the crown chakra and the dissolution into pure bliss consciousness and non-duality that can result from that:
Addition 230.1 - The Natural Evolution of Crown Experiences
Addition 199.1 - Cracking Open the Top of the Head
Addition 378.3 - The Breathless State
It has also been discussed in these two topics in the AYP Plus forum amongst others:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=15924.0
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=15835.msg139218#msg139218
Essentially, with regards to waiting before going to the crown with attention, it is only necessary to wait until a sufficient degree of purification has taken place in the lower chakras. Once that has happened, the procedure given in lesson 199 can be followed for bringing the attention to the crown.
Christi

[Christi (Tristan Dorling)]

Perhaps therein lies my confusion and ignorance of the matter. You see, hearing talk of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (am I right to assume this would involve the transcendental Oneness with the whole universe?), I understood it that one must have penetrated the crown chakra and the more often one gets in and out of this state, until it stabilizes, the better and this is what is needed to gain stable 24/7 nonduality.
Lesson 333 says no need for all that but it is a matter of dissolving the Witness in Unity

Hi Sey
“Nirvikalpa” means “without thought”, so nirvikalpa samadhi is samadhi without thought, which also means without the mantra as the mantra is a thought.
So when we are meditating on the mantra and we lose the mantra into silence, that is nirvikalpa samadhi. When we realise that we are off the mantra, we are coming out of nirvikapla samadhi and into savikapla samadhi, or samadhi where some movement of thought, or ideation is present. Then we pick the mantra up again, and again we may lose it into silence.
There is a relationship between samadhi and the crown chakra. The essence, or experience of the awakened and purified crown is one of pure bliss consciousness, so brining the attention to the crown when this is it’s state, makes it very easy to enter samadhi (both savikalpa and nirvikalpa). But it is not necessary to have an awakened crown to be able to enter samadhi and in fact the crown does not need to be involved at all, hence lesson 333.
So entering nirvikalpa samadhi can be done through meditation alone. Or it can be entered through the crown chakra, or through pranayama, or it can even occur spontaneously. And you are right, it is necessary to enter nirvikalpa samadhi many times in order for it to become a stable condition. What eventually becomes the stable condition is not nirvikalpa samadhi, but sahaja samadhi, or naturally abiding samadhi, which is a state of unity, or non-dual awareness that becomes our natural condition on or off the mat.
Christi

[Holy]

Hi all,
will reply post by post, otherwise it may get too long But thanks Orangesky, the extended week-end was ultimate as always
@Sunyata
thank you for your long post.[quote]
Firstly, I have been reading your posts for years and they are truly divine. You could write about doing laundry and it would still sound divine.
[/quote]You are welcome :)[quote]
My maternal side is “Giri”. … So I was blessed to born in that lineage. May be I practiced Kriya in my past lives. May be it was the blessing of my ancestors. Who knows, none of it matters.
[/quote]Sure I know the Giri’s, we had a long discussion on them in another thread, exploring the various alternations to the kriya practice, startin with Sri Yukteswar Giri. You write it does not matter, but I feel like this makes all the difference. The chain of causes and effects are not random and your genes are filled with Giri causes, people who have practiced and created a strong energy lineage of successfully realized people.[quote]
Then one afternoon, I was sitting on the couch- my spine was readjusted, both sides of the brain readjusted and poof the “I” was gone- non duality. When you have this experience the mind is totally annihilated. Basically the intellect is not there to say –“oh yes this is Level A of non duality and now I need to get to Level B”. It is dissolution- one with creation.
[/quote]Speaking of one with creation, was it just your realization by being part of it, or was it one in the ultimate sense, or in other words, have yo been one with Holy aswell, including all kowing, all being, all capable?
It is just my experience that there are countless types of nonduality in a sense So-Hi speaks of expanded states of consiousness. These states can be induced by adressing the one or other chakra, repeatedly resulting in the same degree and refinement of nonduality, the intensity and spectrum being also dependent upon its activity (basedon the amount of prana flooding through it) and purity. In regards to no-mind, there can be no-mind without nonduality, no-mind with nonduality, no-mind with various degrees of refinement of nonduality. The differentation happens when mental activity starts, not while it is absent.
Would you like to be more precise or link me to the experience posts? Thanks :)[quote]
Not to sound arrogant- I see all these Gurus sitting on the pedestal and the followers bowing down to their feet and chasing them. I just don’t get it. How can you see the nature of reality and sit there on the pedestal like a celebrity. This experience makes you humble because you know no one is better than anyone. We are “One”.
[/quote]This question you should ask Shiva and his first students, the Sapta Rishis and why they were bowing down and why till now the student having become one with all continues to bow down to the master who taught him the method and helped him to reach it. In my experience it is an absolute natural happening, in great joy and thankfullness the body-mind bows down deeply and by this is filled with ever more refined love and beauty. It is how life loves it to happen and therefore it does. Madhukar, a student of Papaji, one of my beloved Jnana Yoga masters was also asked the same question. He replied, that the guru takes away aspects of your ego while bowing down. He is fully realized and omnipresent and keeps bowing down to Papaji and Ramana before every satsang, he also bows down to all those who attend. Bowing opens the heart and makes the life energies flow up into the higher chakras, dissolving you into nonduality. Bowing down also gives the realized the opportunity to touch your third eye or crown chakra. Bowing down is the very first kriya practice of all Giri lineages.
Coming to someone sitting in font of others, it is not a matter of pedestal, it is just how life is. Everything spins around that which attracts and holds everything. Atoms have their center around which the electrons spin, formations of atoms having become planets and stars spin around a center which attracts and in our solar case nurishes. The joy of a realized naturally attracts people, making them spin around the source of joy and nurishment. In this sense how not to love the source of joy, the source of love and healing, how not to bown down. Yes, you are this joy, you are this love, still the body-mind will be nautrally attracted to a greater manifestation of this joy and love that you are, always and at all times. The only one complaining can only be the words in the head.[quote]
I feel working on the lower chakras and then opening the crown is the best way as Yogani emphasizes.
[/quote]Ok thanks for your view :)[quote]
Hope this helps a little. Sorry if I went on a tangent or off topic.
[/quote]Thanks, all fine. Don’t forget, I am you, working for you Adding to the joy, to the love, to the bliss. No other intentions here than to increase the qualities of the one true nature of all and everything. Explorations and remarks of those who can reveal enourmous silence, love and nonduality like in the case of Mangalananda still makes one think if the own approach is not too limited. At least I have always stayed open for improvements
Peace and happy practice

[Holy]

Hi Sey,

Forget the Universe - let us take the example of the cat. Seeing the cat walk by within me, does not make me one with the cat, in my opinion. I am just bigger and contain the cat. I have no idea how the cat is feeling.
[/quote]The cat is a good example. Being totally one to the ultimate would include everything, not leave out anything. I cannot say anything about the Saturn, nor the milky way, except some feeling, intuition. This is partial nonduality, some part of the cake. In the end as you say:[quote]
P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this and just plunk my bum onto my seat everyday and keep at it - talking does not make me know anything, practice does

Hi Chariedog,

There is non duality in which all exists, how we see this is depending from the perspective we are able to see. (my opinion)

thanks for your perspective To increase the ability to see, we do the yoga or go to someone who just makes us see or both

[Holy]

Hi So-Hi,
thanks for the very good post!

Just because a thing is possible does not make it
A. Safe
B. The thing one should be doing
C. What is actually needed
D. The proper thing depending upon which Ashram of life one is currently in.
[/quote]Agree :)[quote]
Ahem… Paramahamsa Hariharananda if you do not mind due respect and all that. No?
[/quote]Sry, I love to call the masters with sweet short names, not due to unrespect, just out of sweetness Yes Paramahamsa Swami Hariharananda Giri :)[quote]
The thing to be cautious about is for others to read your emotional charged and encouraging words and think what is true for you as a unique individual is true for others as well or to give others such an impression.
[/quote]That’s true. These are happenings within the life-flow here and hopefully the reader knows that I’m sharing the observation and inviting into inquiry about it. Everyones body-mind karma mix is individual and needs individual attention.[quote]
For exams I have known 4 types of Students of Paramahamsa Hariharananda. … Which one are you? based on your sharing it would appear you believe yourself to be category #4
[/quote]Ripe is hard to define, the body-mind is obviously capable and perhaps more body-minds are capable for this than they make themselves believe. The question surely is, if body-mind capability is enough as I feel ripeness in the crown-case is similiar to having fullfilled all worldy desires. Exactly that point which Mangalananda was nudging at ;)[quote]
If a person is not ripe for these practices then how will they become ripe? … Answer = by doing something else that does not involve the crown. A yogin must purify the nadis first.
[/quote]Ok your ripeness definition is purity of the nadis. Purity of the nadis can be brought about in few months, but as we both know the process of longterm purity down to the karmic impressions in the chakras needs much more time.[quote]

quote:

Yes once you know how it is always possible, but escapism is not the reason you incarnated here is it? Gee wiz hmm I think I will take birth just so I can wander around for X amount of years blasted out of my mind just hanging out until the body perishes. Nahhh didn’t think so.

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</blockquote id=“quote”>Hehe Surely not, but again the mind has its concepts of what is right and what to do or not to do. Nonduality and being among men does not contradict each other, so that would not be the inquiry here in regards to the crown. More so the possibility of incooperating it earlier into one’s life than the believe that it must come at the very end of body-mind purification and transformation.[quote]
Caution not to become Type 2 or Type 3 all the while thinking you are Type 4
[/quote]Thanks for the caution, but no worry. Balance has always been an auto-priority here [quote]
No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
[/quote]Do you feel like both is not possible, means living daily life with fully open crown? We know from Peter being a husband and father with intense crown focus. I did not have the chance to speak with him about his experiences along the years and decades, perhaps Orangesky had the chance? :)[quote]

quote: [/quote] Ouch such a rough utilitarian approach might as well dig a bullet out of a gunshot victim with a gardening shovel. There is much, much more to it than this. It is not just prana which is the subtle form of breath there is also mind dissolving which is the subtle form of prana followed by both intellect and instinct. Then you have unity.

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Yes, therefore concentrating prana by means of all other faculties including mind and attention. In other words concentrating all waves into the stillness of the atompoint. Also thanks for your words in regards to nirvikalpa samadhi. You are also writing:[quote] All in it’s own good time better to discharge your duties to life while slowly learning how to voluntarily leave the body instead of becoming evicted [/quote]Don't you think you can keep the body and still go into nirvikalpa? Many yogis were living like this. The heart beat comes back. But yes it also may not come back :) There is one hint of Jaggi Vasudev, that I feel is very much valuable. He says, that a peace of metal on the body prevents accidental no-return exit from it, which according to him can happen in deep samadhi, if in some way the samadhi is disturbed. For that reason he advices his close disciples to wear a metal ring or some other metal around the neck or the arm. I have seen some KYI yogis who also had a Yukteswar bangle (copper, silver, gold) either as a small ring or on their arms. But you are right, I also had the experiences of leaving the body, leaving this time-space continuum, also of the body-mind rotting (vision) and me remaining. In another time, the body was laying there, me being present, crown of the body active, but no interface for "me" to do anything with the body. In that sense and I know you also had similiar experiences, one can assume that it is not possible to keep the body with intense crown focus. On the other hand we have good successful examples too. To me it always feels like these are the fears of the mind, preventing from the ultimate dissolution, although despite of its happening nothing may be lost, not even the body and that trust is necessary in this. Thank you again for the detailed answers, very much appreciated as you also have many deep practical experiences :) All love :heart:

[Holy]

Hi Christi,
thanks for all the links, can’t view them though But thanks for the clarification![quote]
Essentially, with regards to waiting before going to the crown with attention, it is only necessary to wait until a sufficient degree of purification has taken place in the lower chakras.
[/quote]Yes, Yogani’s take on it is clear.
Thanks for all the replies!
Peace and happy practice!
PS: Holy continues with full chakra transformation, Gurunath again inspired too bigly But the crown is incooperated again, by means it has happened here for 6 years. There is also an inbetween possibility in regards to the crown, will come back to this in the Gurunath thread at some time.
All love :)[OM]

[sunyata]

Sure I know the Giri’s, we had a long discussion on them in another thread, exploring the various alternations to the kriya practice, startin with Sri Yukteswar Giri. You write it does not matter, but I feel like this makes all the difference. The chain of causes and effects are not random and your genes are filled with Giri causes, people who have practiced and created a strong energy lineage of successfully realized people.

. Thank you for your perspective. It probably did help.

Speaking of one with creation, was it just your realization by being part of it, or was it one in the ultimate sense, or in other words, have yo been one with Holy aswell, including all kowing, all being, all capable?

Honestly, I’m not very good in matching my experience with the various concepts in books. The experience was non duality with no mind.All I can say- Yes, one with Holy, to the carpet in the living, laptop, sofa, trees, cars, people- everything. You know, the universe had it all planned- it arranged everything around in my Life before the awakening happened.I went through the awakening during my pregnancy. I was still working when I was going through the different awakening experiences. I ended up taking an early pregnancy leave and amazingly this transition happened during this period. When one is in this state, one is not functional - my mom took care of me.
Just wanted to add- nonduality with mind(quieter mind)in everyday living is experienced these days. The essence of the revelation never leaves you. The sense of “I” is necessary to function in this creation. At the same time, one sees the “I” for what it is. Then one lives this saying " Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodha". I believe most of the AYP practioners lives this.

It is just my experience that there are countless types of nonduality in a sense So-Hi speaks of expanded states of consiousness. These states can be induced by adressing the one or other chakra, repeatedly resulting in the same degree and refinement of nonduality, the intensity and spectrum being also dependent upon its activity (basedon the amount of prana flooding through it) and purity. In regards to no-mind, there can be no-mind without nonduality, no-mind with nonduality, no-mind with various degrees of refinement of nonduality. The differentation happens when mental activity starts, not while it is absent.

I have been in and out of different expanded states of consciousness. The experience above of non duality there is no “I” to have the various experiences. Everything is Truth, That.

Would you like to be more precise or link me to the experience posts? Thanks

The awakening happened 2010 with the non duality experience in early 2011. Everything felt integrated beginning of 2015. All of my post before that, I was just trying to put the pieces together.
I was born questioning existence and even asked the adults around me. I was told by them to focus in school and have a successful career. Since, everyone was doing the same and that was the answers that I received, I followed right along, simultaneously, inquiring why I was here? who am I?. I came to a point in Life, where I felt I had done all of those things -a decent job and all that. But there was still an emptiness inside. One morning at my altar before heading out for work- I asked the divine- there has to be more…what is it?
I got pregnant few months later- now the urgency was ten times. A growing human inside- a miracle- how?..so I begged and begged. It was divine shaktipat. The divine came in the form of a loving lady and turned the body into light. Lots of purging after. Various spiritual experiences that I already mentioned and then the revelation that finally quenched the 20 plus years of thirst.

This question you should ask Shiva and his first students, the Sapta Rishis and why they were bowing down and why till now the student having become one with all continues to bow down to the master who taught him the method and helped him to reach it. In my experience it is an absolute natural happening, in great joy and thankfullness the body-mind bows down deeply and by this is filled with ever more refined love and beauty. It is how life loves it to happen and therefore it does. Madhukar, a student of Papaji, one of my beloved Jnana Yoga masters was also asked the same question. He replied, that the guru takes away aspects of your ego while bowing down. He is fully realized and omnipresent and keeps bowing down to Papaji and Ramana before every satsang, he also bows down to all those who attend. Bowing opens the heart and makes the life energies flow up into the higher chakras, dissolving you into nonduality. Bowing down also gives the realized the opportunity to touch your third eye or crown chakra. Bowing down is the very first kriya practice of all Giri lineages.
Coming to someone sitting in font of others, it is not a matter of pedestal, it is just how life is. Everything spins around that which attracts and holds everything. Atoms have their center around which the electrons spin, formations of atoms having become planets and stars spin around a center which attracts and in our solar case nurishes. The joy of a realized naturally attracts people, making them spin around the source of joy and nurishment. In this sense how not to love the source of joy, the source of love and healing, how not to bown down. Yes, you are this joy, you are this love, still the body-mind will be nautrally attracted to a greater manifestation of this joy and love that you are, always and at all times. The only one complaining can only be the words in the head.

Being born in that tradition, it is familiar to me. I have always been a rebel to some cultural belief system because I always knew we are “one”. The reason I moved to the West in my late teens was because I was tired of it. I found out that the West has it’s own challenges. I finally realized what I was was searching was for “liberation”.
I feel so lucky to be able to pick the best of both worlds. I still bow down when the social setting ask for it. I would feel bowing down is okay- for e.g. if the Guru has 100 devotees and they bowed to his/her feet, the Guru would reciprocate and bow down to the the 100 devotees feet. Since there is no difference between the two. My mind prefers it this way.

Explorations and remarks of those who can reveal enourmous silence, love and nonduality like in the case of Mangalananda still makes one think if the own approach is not too limited. At least I have always stayed open for improvements

I agree with you 100%. Certain body minds are able to transmit the divine more than others. Infact I’m looking forward to a lot of spiritual vacations in the future like the one you just took. Who knows we may be able to practice together someday. Ultimately it’s the merging of the non dual with the dual.

Sunyata
P.S.- I have a lot of respect for Shiva and Sapta Rishis and everyone. They are in my altar and my heart. I just don’t care much for man made (ego) social customs that creates a difference between humanity. It’s probably my ego saying this as well. Letting it go in silence.
Edit~Added few lines.

[So-Hi]

Discussions between Holy and myself.
so-hi said: [quote]
quote: No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
[/quote]
Holy Said: [quote]
Do you feel like both is not possible, means living daily life with fully open crown? We know from Peter being a husband and father with intense crown focus. I did not have the chance to speak with him about his experiences along the years and decades, perhaps Orangesky had the chance?
[/quote]
I am not even certain a fully opened crown is “a thing”
I know it is possible to live from the Fontanel and having done so on purpose do not think it is appropriate for most to force it by sadhana specifically designed for this purpose.
At the same time though as time passes I am being drawn more and more there anyway what with more years behind me than ahead so there is no need to force things.

[Holy]

Hello Sunyata,
sorry for the late reply, life is very intense here since the vacation :)[quote]
Honestly, I’m not very good in matching my experience with the various concepts in books. The experience was non duality with no mind.All I can say- Yes, one with Holy, to the carpet in the living, laptop, sofa, trees, cars, people- everything.
[/quote]Wow, supreme!! Lovely Was it a one-time happening or did it reoccur? Do you have access to it by any intentional means?
It is rare to find people having had the experience except the masters giving their programs Our samadhi boy also experienced full oneness several times, the first events did happen by grace of the Giri lineage (Hariharananda and Prajnanananda). The later as far as I could get by his own practice under Gurunath’s guidance and piercing the star. Mangalananda last year in a kriya weekend mentioned the first time in a dialog with a woman that she was successful with full oneness by means of the crown. While she was mentioning it, her body turned transparent and I could see the stars and planets through her for a brief time. With this the more casually speakable people diminish in this regard, therefore thanks for your sharing! :)[quote]
When one is in this state, one is not functional - my mom took care of me.
[/quote]Good mum! [quote]
The awakening happened 2010 with the non duality experience in early 2011. Everything felt integrated beginning of 2015.
[/quote] How many hours, days weeks, months did it take until you recovered to daily functioning? Don’t have any input to this from the other too, but from Yogananda we remember that afterwards he had to clean up the floor and then he and Yukteswar were walking along the river. But these people were preparing their body-minds like crazy and may had a smoother transition.[quote]
I would feel bowing down is okay- for e.g. if the Guru has 100 devotees and they bowed to his/her feet, the Guru would reciprocate and bow down to the the 100 devotees feet. Since there is no difference between the two. My mind prefers it this way.
[/quote]Sounds all fine Also do see it more as a natural happening than a forced one. A good friend of mine, few years ago, came to the Satsang of Madhukar (his first time meeting a guru ) and he neither did bow down, nor took a namaste greeting, just said hello hehe. Later in the satsang when Madhukar was pushing the scene into nonduality, the friend also blissed out heftily and was loughing nonstop. Later on seeing him again he greeted with namaste too and the head bowed down a little
My own mother would never bow down, maximum greet with Namaste. Reason is, our spiritual origin is muslim and sufi teaching based, god is only invisible and formless, everythign else is his creation. Greetings among realizeds do only happen by means of kissing the hand, touching the hand with your forehead or by keeping the right hand on the heart and slightly nodding with the head or by means of hugging and kissing The first time she came in contact with Gurunath was in a school of the Samadhi boy, where all had gathered and were talking nonstop. Gurunath was still on his way to come. Then suddenly an extreme downpouring from everywhere and nowhere dawned upon everyone, from full volume speech to zero everyone became silent and the minds were stopping into bliss. I could not believe seeing my mother bowing down to the ground, everythign was bathing in peace and bliss. One lady could speak out, he has come. Then few seconds later a car came and the samadhi boy entered and said, you all received the first transmission, then Gurunath also came him. Sitting directly in front of him, my mother got more infusion and since then she is the first one bowing down LOL
But do see what you mean… [quote]
I just don’t care much for man made (ego) social customs that creates a difference between humanity.
[/quote]…yes, especially when it comes to fake situations, also those which are unnatural by any means. In any of these cases, this body here also does not bow.[quote]
Infact I’m looking forward to a lot of spiritual vacations in the future like the one you just took. Who knows we may be able to practice together someday.
[/quote]You are very much welcome I feel that in some way all who have participated in this forum will be more connected in real life the coming years and decades. The hindrance of time and space dissolves continuously, Yogani’s retreat book also gave the strong impulse to connect and practice together more. There is also one base which transcends different means of practice and that is silence. Time will show how it all evolves
Thanks for your reply!
Happy practice all

[Holy]

Hi So-Hi,

[quote]
I am not even certain a fully opened crown is “a thing”
I know it is possible to live from the Fontanel and having done so on purpose do not think it is appropriate for most to force it by sadhana specifically designed for this purpose.
[/quote]Yes also do not feel like it is a primary means for any mass public. To know this option is still very valuable. Few decades ago this possibility was not at hand, now you can read it up on the net As you say, the individual must decide (or the nondual just does its thing as with Sunyata
Sometimes it may be apropriate to leave the golden cage and fly out too. Am thankful that there are people like Mangalananda who keep the door open so to speak
Dear So-Hi, you had reported about your crown experiences. I would still love to hear one more time your experience of the pulseless state and the star-entrance. Remember, that you were practicing first kriya KYI in pretty intense amounts for some months. Some more details and insight would be very much welcome! As we know from Yogananda, the stoppage of the heart-beat is only the beginning to a more complete stoppage of astral and then causal phenomena to come to nirvikalpa samadhi (from his Bhagavat Gita commentaries). From Hans we also know that Nirvikalpa aka complete oneness may be seconds or minutes away after the latest heartbeat.
By means of classic kriya the heart beat can start stopping after 1728 pranayamas (either in one shot or over time). But a more thorough stop leading to nirvikalpa samadhi obviously takes the higher amount of 20k pranayamas. It feels like the KYI approach with the crown accelerates this urge in the system, in this manner your insights and sharing would be very valuable!
Thank you very much and greetings to all
PS: @Sunyata, did forget about this: do you remember any body-mind processes occuring after/while the spine/brain alignment which resembles what the kriya yogis speak about in regards to the heart beat, the third eye, the star and so on? Thank you very much too!

[So-Hi]

Hi Holy. The truth of the matter is very simple neither KYI nor other forms of Kriya led to the pulse-less state. In my opinion Kriya of any kind is incapable of bringing one to the pulse-less state.
What happened was very simple the practice of KYI Kriya led to the familiarity of the circuit of the fontenal in conjunction with naturally energetically forming of the tongue into Kechari Mudra.
Kechari to me is like falling upwards a wonderful thing when it is ready to take place on its own.
From this I came to know of the bifurcated true nature of Shushumna how one branch travels straight up and the other through the brain to the brow where the nose forms its root between the eyes.
What Kriya did was awaken old memories of former lives and how a thing is done by moving prana in the spine and clearing up sufficient amounts of blockages.
For example today I had to go and take pictures for my employment of a property I lived at 12 years ago. I have not had good reason to drive there in well… nearly 12 years so from the place I found myself I had to recall the best route but honestly I could not so what I did is simply trusted in my inner feeling self and drove letting the inner self place me where I needed to go because I could feel it remembers the path to take and soon the road became familiar yet I still passed the entrance and had to turn around to go in.
For Example: We go practicing Kriya the Pranayam of Parmahamsa Hariharananda it has been completed Kechari is in place level 3 - 4 Kechari to be specific and there is good conduction and very high energy states in the spine.
Then the inner knowing self not much different than the one who guided my driving clues me in and intuitively tells me what to do next. I follow that guidance and the rest follows.
These energy states are magnetic / electric / filled with extreme pleasure what people call BLISS for lack of a better word when the mind becomes interwoven with these energies a different dimension of space and time become your reality all is extreme enjoyment beyond the most pleasurable sensation one can imagine and just when you think there can be no more another wave blasts through you and they come closer and closer together rushing straight up into the highest centers in the head and you become that higher vibrational frequency of waves crashing faster and faster closer and closer together at some point the transition takes place.
You set the stage with AYP Practices as well but due to the non directional global approach the transitions can be a bit more unpredictable.
No matter what you practice you must receive the inner guidance to go to NIRVAKALPA SAMADHI.
All systems are just setting the stage that is all.
Penetrating the 5 pointed star also happens this way.
There is no particular practice one may ascribe by saying oh yes you must be practicing Yoni Mudra to penetrate the star although that has happened.
The secret of penetrating the white star is no secret at all it just takes introversion of the senses between the brows until you see it then you use all your focus to hold it still and the next thing you know either you enter or you do not.
I am certain there is another factor involved beyond self determination and will and you may call that the grace of God assisting.
Unlike the Nirvakalpa state there is no ramping up of energy taking over at first in the spine then later inner guidance telling you what to do in order to equalize with another dimension of being.
Once the inner world has been revealed you have it all but it might take a while to grow into it and you are satisfied and then there is no purpose to repeating it. In fact the desire to ever see anything again is gone because quite frankly you have seen it all and there is more important levels of being that do not have a sight analogy which is where your heart really wants to be.
Things like this happening are important mile markers along the way until you have them then to repeat them is just to go searching for scenery to entertain yourself = boring and most certainly “NOT IT”
Concerning Penetrating the white star, the highest Samadhis are a different matter they create a permanent addiction that urges you on no matter what to completion.
I mean after all what if Captain Kirk was satisfied discovering Green Girls just think of all the fun he would have missed with meeting the advanced races like the Organians?
Sadhana the Final Frontier… These are the voyages of the …
So to go into Nirvakalpa Samadhi it requires a tremendous amount of Energy to align with this dimension of being. But I suspect that is just the novices rough way of doing things until they get the feel for it then it is probably as easy as how the tongue slips into Kechari when the time for it to do so makes all pliable slippery warm and welcome.
The danger in the practice however is that you might just wind up leaving a dead body so as long as you have duties in this world to perform it is probably best not to go there on a regular basis unless it becomes easy and natural to do so.
So here is the abject truth of the matter Kriya is nothing special it is just purification that is all you can get the same from AYP.
That is part of the truth another part is sitting your ass down and becoming introverted on a regular schedule so your awareness becomes more able to function within and in different dimensions of mind and being itself.
The next part of this truth is that energies start moving within you giving extreme satisfaction and bliss.
The next part is your inner knowing self takes over and then you know how to do things with this good feeling energy.
Then you do so and go beyond all words.
Then you return and can share the parts you feel like sharing.
Then your daily life becomes beautiful and you continue living and doing and changing just as Yogani describes so well.
Then it is time to take up the purification method and all the props that help on go from extroversion to introversion.
Then it is time to leave your seat and brush your teeth go to work and all the things you did before but the you who is doing these things is not the same you who started and with each day a new you continues to be who you are which does lead to the realization that your own personality and memories are nothing but a convenient fiction and a prop the same as all the Sadhana techniques…
Reality well that is something else and there are no words.