A smaller scale that can bring us to a higher scale. I know the Dr. & founder of the Neuro-Psychological Group of Southwest Florida where they do mainly research in medicine, however they also have weekly counsel sessions - unlike the normal psychologist / patient session - the sessions are similar to “what do you want out of life?” - then they give you homework and you report back your feelings and being - dont see how AYP wouldnt fit in.
From there is our tie in with the Florida University Fort Myers, Fl recently built our own university probably 4 years ago. I have been in this town a while and can probably find someone I know who knows… Actually my husband’s cousin is the RN Director there, and sits on the board - she may be able to at least direct us.
The University of Missouri - Columbia, highly regarded for their School of Journalism, has a school of metaphysics. That is where I received my last degree - the University, not the School of Metaphysics, but if there is anyway you could find someone there, it might open some avenues. I no longer live in the vicinity, so I can only provide info and leave the rest to someone else.
Best of luck
Hi Nancy and Hannah:
Thanks much for those leads. Any follow up by you or others will be much appreciated. The network is still a bit thin, but growing steadily.
We’ll get there. 
The guru is in you.
Hi,
First of all I didn’t read the whole topic, just the first post by yogani and a few other lines of posts below. Hope this post is not so irrelevant…
I am a scientist by profession and a kind of skeptic by nature (I would like to say healthy skeptic but sometimes I think I even hurt myself being so hard-headed! ) .
Anyway, I read this post and it sounds wonderful and all but, being kind of new at all this, I have a question in my mind for some time now and this is a good place to put it and could help in you finding a perspective on how to put AYP in an university department.
First off, what is Human Spiritual Transformation? In a more specific way, what is Spirit? From my point of view, science is kind of a closed modality nowadays in the sense that it only cares about hard facts and concepts they can “touch”, handle, measure and experiment with. And with stuff that they feel matters (the funding comes from this). Science is an objective, outward drawn, measuring tool and in yoga we are very much in the inward, subjective realm. Of course I can feel changes in myself from deep meditation (calmer etc.) but can this be measured? How? And, especially, why?
That brings me to the second part of the question. Supposing there is such a thing as a spiritual nature (note: this does not mean I don’t believe it exists, I am playing the devil’s advocate here! The scientific skeptic), what is the relevance and importance of a spiritual transformation of the human being? In order to get people interested in it this has to be clearly stated. For example, it is easy to sell tons of things that are good (or believed to be good) for you: beauty creams, medicines, tvs for entertainment, cars to move and show off, etc. I can say that in my case I came to AYP as I have been having troubles with my health, troubles I don’t understand, troubles that are subtle and the conventional medicine doesn’t understand and it seems to be related to energies in the body (I started reading stuff like that because it was the only thing that resonated with what I felt) and I seek alternatives ways of finding some balance. My point is, if you want to get the masses interested (and hence universities, because I believe nowadays science is a kind of new religion, people only believe if there are scientific studies in a given subject) you have to give them something that they feel they need. I mean, from my point of view, every human strives to be happy, to feel good. That’s what we do. That’s why we move, work, etc. Can’t we be happy WITHOUT a spiritual transformation? Aren’t there methods of just being happy some other way or is it evolutionary necessary to “spiritually transform”? If a good point is made that this is so then science will be more than willing to dig into it. I know, I am a biologist
I know a lot of people (most people that surround me) that don’t care at all for spiritual matters and even look sideways to people who do (the idea of sects etc. comes to their minds). Maybe you are different but I do find this. But good marketing, like yogani says, seems indeed to be important to show to people that they do need this and this will make their lifes happier, even if they will have to leave all prejudices and world views behind…are people ready for this?
So, could you please define (also for my sake and understanding if possible!) what is spirit and spiritual transformation and whether we could live without it or not?
Thank you and sorry for the hard head!! Just thought could be helpful in being kind of a bridge between the cold-headed and skeptics academics and the soulful spiritual seekers
Hi YogaIsLife:
It is probably best to read the lessons and hang around the forums for a while to get a feel for what human spiritual transformation is. And keep practicing daily. Then you will be sure to find out.
Here is a lesson with some basic milestones: http://www.aypsite.org/35.html
Why would anyone want to do this? It is first for the reason you gave: Happiness. But beyond fleeting happiness, transcending everything that could ever go wrong, up to and including death. So it is permanent happiness that the transformation offers, regardless of our external circumstances.
More basically we should ask, why do we do anything in life? Why does nature do anything? Obviously there is a lot of evolution and growth going on everywhere. It is inherent in all living things. We do it because it is in our nature. Why do we climb the mountain? Why do we fly into outer space? Because these things are there, and it is in our nature to do and know more. Or maybe we do it for more selfish reasons – self-defense. Whatever. The point is that spiritual development gradually frees us from the burdens of this life, while we are still here. Wouldn’t we all like to have that? It cannot be achieved by tangible means alone. So we must travel to inner space to have it, into spirit.
Is this for everyone? Well, who wants to be left off the train of evolution, especially if the conductor is calling, “All aboard!” The conductor is that voice inside all of us.
This is also where research comes in, to make the call more clear. It will reveal to us with more certainty the truth about the process of spiritual transformation that lives in all of us. And then we will know. As Jesus said, “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” This is the purpose of science, yes?
I have a scientific background also, having spent more years in universities than I care to remember, so I know this is where the scientific battles about human spiritual transformation will be fought. These will be the penetrating inquiries and eventual conclusions that will really matter to the public. It is happening already in healthcare at prestigious universities, as described above. There is also some more discussion on research over here, touching on the tangible aspects of measuring results from meditation, etc: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3511
(see the link to scientific research on Transcendental Meditation in particular – getting measurable results from intangible practices)
It is an ongoing discussion and evolution in knowledge. I don’t see AYP becoming part of a university program. We’d like to maintain our independence. However, we can hopefully inspire those who are in that world to look beyond the physical outcomes of spiritual practices (there are plenty in the health field), to psychological wellbeing and further beyond to how spiritual development can produce tangible positive influences in the world around us. It is a long slow process, but it is happening nevertheless. Awareness of it in the academic and research communities is rising gradually. And more funding is coming for this kind of research every year, spring-boarding from the field of healthcare.
Eventually this kind of research will be recognized for what it is – applied spiritual science. Maybe not in our lifetime, but in time. We are planting seeds that will sprout and grow to maturity in time. The more self-directed practitioners we have producing perceptible results in their lives, the more seeds will be sprouting. That is what we can keep doing in AYP – keep planting seeds and helping them sprout. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
The guru is in you.
I guess that is where my personal psychological barrier lies: the idea that we can transcend the relative physical plane and that this is a good thing. I have some kind of block for that. It is like fleeting from life itself (in my - maybe primitive - perspective). All my life I believed that the wise is the one that understands the physical plane and lives in peace with it, but not necessarily by transcending it. It was just a kind of easy acceptance, still understanding that we cannot know everything about the workings of the universe. But now, with all this, people say that we can experience this directly! This is overwhelming (and honestly a bit scary for me). Well, that is some work I have to do personally and I guess I can find out by practicing. But I do recognize similar blocks in a lot of people around me. Hence my questions above.
All the best.
Hi YogaIsLife:
Becoming “stillness in action” is the most natural thing in the world. Not a separation at all, and definitely not passive as far as doing things in the world is concerned. We can do so much more in loving stillness. That is why we call it an “outpouring of divine love.” Human beings are designed for that. It is our destiny.
Yoga means “union,” and that says it all. The perception of separation is what we are before enlightenment. The thing we are afraid of is the thing we have been already – divided. Yoga goes a very long way to resolving that. And the fear dissolves…
You said it yourself: “Yoga is life.” Pretty exciting, huh?
The guru is in you.
Thanks a lot Yogani for your reply! I guess you are right, I guess I had some answers in my own forum name hahaha
I will take your word for it and keep practicing at my own pace. After all it takes a bit of faith in the beggining.
Meanwhile don’t let my musings divert you from the work at hand here, which is to bring about the scientific study of human spiritual transformation! This will certainly be something to see in the future.
All the best!
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
Hi All:
See the recent email correspondence below for some additional comments on AYP, yoga and science. More comments welcome.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
Q: I was directed to your AYP web site by a friend and was confused by this quote:
“It is a flexible, scientific approach rather than a rigid, arbitrary one.”
What’s the science behind your approach to yoga?
Thanks!
A: Thank you for your note.
The “science” of AYP is in the fact that only “cause and effect” count. Each person is invited to judge the effectiveness of the practices on the basis of results in their own life. No one is asked to take anything on faith, or on the basis of “arbitrary” proclamations. Furthermore, open communication among practitioners is encouraged in the AYP Support Forums, which is leading to clear identification of the repetition of results in many areas of practice, and also the detailed comparative scrutiny of practices from many traditions, etc.
This may not sound like science in the sense of statistically controlled experiments, and so on, but it is the best we can do at this time. I come from a scientific background and have a desire to see the academic science of it become more systematic and organized.
There has been quite a lot of formal research on various spiritual methods over the past 40 years, but it remains scattered. What limited focus there has been is centered in the healthcare field (alternative medicine). We hope to see that eventually move beyond to a more focused approach for examining the processes of human spiritual transformation. See here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3267
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3511#31786 (and next post on TM research)
Admittedly, there is still a long way to go in ferreting out the deep science of human spiritual transformation, but we have to start somewhere. So here we are.
The most important thing is that we are working with an integration of time-tested methods in open and flexible ways that enable us to optimize causes and effects, while leaving rigid “by-rote” approaches of the past behind when they do not work as well as they should. Results in daily life are what rule. No longer blind faith in knowledge that is handed to us with assured sanctimony.
Hope that helps. Btw, the best place to start in AYP is at the beginning. If you take it in order from here, you will see how the practices are built up step-by-step: http://www.aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html
You are also invited to join in the discussions in the support forums anywhere you like.
AYP is a blend of ancient knowledge with a modern flexible approach of applying knowledge in ways that yield best results. The focus is on applying the simplest possible “control levers” for stimulating the complex processes of spiritual transformation available within us. This is how modern science has yielded so many wonderful advances in many fields of endeavor in recent centuries – developing simple effective control levers for complex processes that anyone can use with good benefits. The knowledge of yoga and spiritual practices is no different. We are breaking out from the limited thinking of the past, even as we take full advantage of all that has gone before.
Wishing you all the best on your path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
Dear Yogani,
Please check out www.andrewnewberg.com
From his website:
Dr. Andrew Newberg is an Associate Professor in the Department of Radiology and Psychiatry and Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. He is Board-certified in Internal Medicine, Nuclear Medicine, and Nuclear Cardiology. He is the director and co-founder of the Center for Spirituality and the Neurosciences, also at the University of Pennsylvania.
He might be interested at advancing the agenda discussed in this thread. Ok, gotta go but will be reading his book soon.
Hi Eitherway:
An excellent potential connection. Thank you!
Here is another neuroscientist – Jill Bolte Taylor – who had a serious stroke and lived to tell about it, from the point of view of its spiritual content: http://mystrokeofinsight.com
She has become very well-known from her TED talk earlier this year and subsequent visit with Oprah, and has recently come out with a book. (She was originally introduced in the AYP forums here.)
Dissolving the barriers between science and systems of spiritual practice and their resulting experiences is a high priority in our time, because it is science that will inform humanity about its inherent potential for enlightenment on a wide scale.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: It would be wonderful if we could attract several knowledgeable scientists to come and “talk” with us here. In fact, Jill Bolte Taylor already has an open invitation from us. Anyone with contacts in the scientific community, please let me know.
I haven`t had time to read the whole thread yet but I would think the Mind and Life institute could be a valuable partner in such an endevour. So could the Benson henry institute at Harvard and Trungpas Naropa university. Researchers that would be very interested in such a project includes Paul Ekman, Jack Engler, Daniel Goleman and Mark Epstein. Insight meditation society also have a huge amount of teachers with degress (often phd) in psychology and other relevant fields. They are also a big institution to begin with and could play a vital role in helping to get something like this started.
I forgot to mention that over at taobums they are discussing the idea of getting a lot of taoist masters togheter to make them study each others systems openly to improve on them and to start making some sort of library collecting all sorts of information on cultivation.
I have also myself tought about the possibility of trying to get secretive yogis to describe their techniques in detail in books. I think several might be persuaded that the times are changing and most techniques are already in the open or soon will be. Hence it is better to get them written down in a proper way and with all precautions mentioned. Because most yogic masters are in India or other developing contries one could hire local yogis with academic backgrounds to pursue the masters and write down techniques quite cheaply.
The Bihar school has a long policy of openness about their teachings and has extensively written them down and published them. They are also a rather big institution very much interested in research on yoga.
The Iyengar institute and Desikachars institute are also large well organised quality institutions that have similar beliefs and already are involved in lots of research. They could be very helpfull in such a project.
In india several universities and large research institutes are investigating yoga heavily. The same is even more so the case for medical qigong in china. Even tough such an insitute should be at a large university I think many smaler players and institutions can be brought in to help in many beneficial ways. Research doesn`t always have to be done all in one place to be coordinated. An organistation with the purpose of promoting aplied spiritual science can hold conferences among academics that can be instrumental in coordinating research at a number of institutions so that they are working conordinated and effecticely towards the same goal.
Hi Markern:
Many thanks for the ideas. See here for some related thoughts on helping:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1154#38937
In the case of research and education, it is a matter of inspired practitioners directly approaching all possible channels.
Thanks, and all the best!
The guru is in you.
I agree…This is what I am trying to do with a guy named David Orme Johnson who has written dozens of papers on his studies of meditation and it’s effects, primarily on substance abuse, hence why I am approaching him. If others take up the call to report on measureable effects they are getting to others who are doing research in such areas, we will soon have an overload of research I’m sure.
In Love,
Carson
“In the case of research and education, it is a matter of inspired practitioners directly approaching all possible channels.”
Sounds good. I believe a lot can be done that way. I am actualy in the process of writing an email to a researcher that has done one project on meditation explaining how certain related techniques might be relevant to her broader research agenda which is partly achivement amongst elite athletes and eating disorders in general.
My meditation teacher is going to start a phd soon, probably about qigong but he is still in the process of desiding what to write about. I showed him your site today.
Ervin Lazlo is a philosopher that is trying to make a sort of theory of everything drawing on quantum physics, research on telepathy, research on meditation and hindu theories about the Acashic field. For such an alterantive research agenda he has very broad respect in academic communities for his previous work and has taught at several prestigous universities. Aplied spiritual science would be something he would support strongly.
In general I think the whole field of mindfulness psychology is going to become the main field in therapy. It has already gotten a lot of interest and research with good results. When I inquired about mindfulness books at my universities bookshop they said that lots of people have started asking about it lately. Many very respected researchers are looking into it now.
Have you read the books the Dalai Lama at MIT, Healing emotions and Destructive emotions by Daniel Goleman Yogani? They are resumes of the talks held between the Dalai Lama and his monks and some of the wests foremost scientists within several fields. They discuss both aplied spiritual science and the secularisation of meditative and yogic techniques for the purpose of general happiness and development of emphaty for people at large. The purpose of the Mind and life institute and these dialogues is in large part to make that happen over the long term. After the Dalai Lama was at MIT several hundred top scientists signed up to a newsletter updating them on developments in meditation research. The whole thing has infused science with a huge optimism for human potential and is slowly revolutionising the field.
Good News for Meditation Research:
$6 Million Grant Creates Meditation Study Center
Media Inquiries
news@uwhealth.orgMADISON – Research at UW-Madison has already shown that meditation can change the brain. Now a new grant will allow a more in-depth investigation of how these changes can affect sleep, pain tolerance, emotion regulation and other measures of well-being.
A $6 million grant from NIH’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) will create a new “Center for Excellence” on the Madison campus to study the brain changes created by meditating.
"This will be the most rigorous and comprehensive study of meditation that has ever been done in the history of scientific research,‘’ said Richard Davidson, William James and Vilas Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry.
Davidson, head of the Waisman Laboratory for Brain Imaging and Behavior, will head the new Wisconsin Center on the Neuroscience and Psychophysiology of Meditation. His fellow investigators are Giulio Tononi, professor of psychiatry in the School of Medicine and Public Health, and associate scientist Antoine Lutz, of the Waisman brain imaging laboratory.
Dr. Josephine P. Briggs, NCCAM director said, the grant was passed on “strong preliminary work” and that all the new centers will apply complementary medicine approaches to “a wide range of health conditions and diseases that affect the American public.”
The Wisconsin Center on the Neuroscience and Psychophysiology of Meditation will study two groups of people who meditate.
In the first group are practitioners of insight meditation. It is an ancient practice that is said to promote well-being, emotional balance and concentration through self-observation, disciplined attention to thoughts, emotions and physical sensations of the body. Practitioners explicitly cultivate positive qualities such as loving-kindness and compassion.
In the second are people trained in a newer form of meditation, known as Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), which is taught at UW Health and other hospitals to help patients cope with chronic illness and pain.
“While mindfulness mediation is commonly taught at medical centers, there has been little research done to understand how it works in the brain and the body,” Davidson said.
Over the next five years, volunteers will practice both types of meditation and participate in three studies:
The impact of insight meditation on emotional reactivity and emotion regulation. Davidson said that functional MRI (fMRI) and measures of peripheral physiology and endocrine function may help show “how changes in the brain influence the changes in the body that may be important to health.” One example could be inflammation, which plays a key role in diseases ranging from asthma to cardiovascular disease to wound healing.
The neural and behavioral measures of the impact of mindfulness meditation on attention and pain regulation.
The impact of meditation on spontaneous brain activity during sleep. This project will also use transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) to probe changes in brain circuits and connectivity.
“At the end of five years, we should know how meditation works and what brain connections are exercised or strengthened,” Davidson said.
The grant creates one of the first federally-funded centers to study meditation. It follows a $2.5 grant from the Fetzer Foundation to use neuroscience to study how to foster compassion, love and forgiveness in children and adults. That work will be part of a planned "Center for Creating a Healthy Mind,‘’ which will also study and teach meditation practices.
Of the latest grant, Davidson said: “It’s a testament to the team we’ve been able to assemble here at Wisconsin, which is clearly the best team working in this emerging area of science.”
Date published: 11/03/2008
SWEET!!! Thanks for posting this divinefurball!
Yogani,
There is a “swami” in the ISCON movement, name of “Rasa Raja Das”. He is a scientist by qual. and training(a PhD), who is the head of their Vedanta Research Foundation. He spends 6 months in the year in S.F. where their headquarters is located. I know for a fact that he has organised seminars where Nobel Laureates were invited to discuss the links between science and religion. He has, in fact, established a PhD program in Spiritual Science in the BITS Pilani University in India.
Since you are in the US, why don’t you contact him? I am sure he would be delighted to discuss the subject.
Krish