Very interesting topic, and equally interesting posts from all concerned. Have been following the latter with interest and it has made me aware of how carefully we have to tread when “talking” to each other. Words can seldom do justice to our thoughts, even more so when the same words mean different things to different people. But it helps to ask for clarifications rather than jump to conclusions about what the person who wrote the original stuff that one disagrees with actually meant.
As for helping. I remember my grandfather telling me this when I was a kid “Even if a drunkard tells you it is not a good idea to get smashed, you should listen to him”. I thing it is less important what the motives behind a particular offer to assist are. If the advice or opinion proffered is helpful, we should grab it with both hands. Otherwise, we should try and not get riled about it. It might be useful to somebody else 
Shankar said:
But it helps to ask for clarifications rather than jump to conclusions about what the person who wrote the original stuff that one disagrees with actually meant.
Agreed.
The English language carries special risks even. The common, vernacular, form for ‘one’ is ‘you’! Other languages don’t have this.
So if you use it, you’ll come across as obnoxious if you aren’t careful.
I mean, if we use it, we’ll come across as obnoxious if we aren’t careful.
Did that sound better? 
The use of “we” is brilliant! We should use that formulation more often!
This is also related to this old topic I wrote when there was a lot of projections going on at the forum, and people were in a very “touchy mood”, taking things personally, getting offended, patronising eachother etc etc… I stepped in as a mega teacher and wrote:
Power of Words - On communication
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2462
Hi David!
As I said, I “take it” or “leave it”. If I find a penny on the street, I might just as well pick it up. It might not be worth anything right now, but then again, it might just come in handy some day. Or I might leave it alone. It might be picked up by the next guy who sees it.
Methinks the trick is to take the posts here here as generalized entries among the gazillions of pieces of information out on the net. Unless of course, somebody makes a rude and personal attack on oneself. But I have only learnt from the posts here thus far.
Not least yours, David. I just backtracked to read some of your older posts on the subject of Gurus and our tendency to put them on a pedastal. And I was thinking to myself. These guys never even knew the West existed before some hippies turned up at their door. Now years later, long after they are dead, they are being pilloried for being famous. Go figure
Life is funny 
Namaste!
Hi david!
Actually, david, it sounds even worse. The use of the royal “we”, instead of the humble “I” makes you sound well, all regal and pretentious…lol
Ha ha, just kidding… 
Hi Louis - what I meant by having compassion for the person who’s being patronizing is that I see his/her need to feel superior, and have compassion for that neediness. An example: I have a male friend who is far more commercially successful than I in our line of work, and who sniffs and snorts about it continuously. His work is inferior to mine (she says humbly… ), which I believe makes him insecure. But he’s a good guy, so I can have compassion for his need to be superior, while taking in his excellent advice on becoming more commercially successful.
A patronizing person generally suffers from an inferiority complex. Who can’t relate to that? Who hasn’t had their moments of insecurity? Part of the human condition.
Shankar said:
Unless of course, somebody makes a rude and personal attack on oneself. But I have only learnt from the posts here thus far.
Not least yours, David.
Shankar, I’m not sure what you’re saying. Do you think someone has made a rude or personal attack on you? I don’t understand. It sounds as if you might be saying such a thing, but I see nothing like that.
I just backtracked to read some of your older posts on the subject of Gurus and our tendency to put them on a pedastal. And I was thinking to myself. These guys never even knew the West existed before some hippies turned up at their door. Now years later, long after they are dead, they are being pilloried for being famous. Go figure
I’ll take full responsibility for harshly criticizing the human tendancy to put others on a pedestal, as well as the human tendancy to love getting up on one (or to resist getting down). Therein are two vices of human beings all the more destructive for not being adequately understood as being vices at all, or worse, even being believed to be ‘spiritual’. But I don’t remember anyone being pilloried just for being famous. But if you have issues with those posts, I’d say it’s best to take up those issues on those posts themselves.
[quote=“meg”]
Hi Louis - what I meant by having compassion for the person who’s being patronizing is that I see his/her need to feel superior, and have compassion for that neediness. An example: I have a male friend who is far more commercially successful than I in our line of work, and who sniffs and snorts about it continuously. His work is inferior to mine (she says humbly… ), which I believe makes him insecure. But he’s a good guy, so I can have compassion for his need to be superior, while taking in his excellent advice on becoming more commercially successful.
A patronizing person generally suffers from an inferiority complex. Who can’t relate to that? Who hasn’t had their moments of insecurity? Part of the human condition.
[/quote]Ok, I get you now, thanks for clarifying Meg
I guess we all have the inferiority/superiority complex within us - part ofthe human condition, as you say.
As I see it, we can work on it, transform it, be aware of it, and as we deepen it still seems to be there in ever more subtle forms - always there to work with - a bit like projections - we can understand exactly how they work but they can be so hard to spot- often obvious to others but we can be totally blind to them ourselves
[quote]
But he’s a good guy, so I can have compassion for his need to be superior, while taking in his excellent advice on becoming more commercially successful
[/quote]Something tells me this is not uncommon for women in men/women relationships
Hi david!
No David, I did not imply that there had been any personal attacks, quite the contrary.
Which is why I mentioned that one might take these posts as generalized entries, among the gazillion bits of information that one finds on the internet. Unless, one is directly being confronted in a rude manner. But happily, this has not been the case for me, I have only learnt by participating in the forum.
Namaste
Hi again David!
Just to make sure, I re-read my original posting. Since I was answering you, I made sure you would know that I appreciated all the learning, and mentioned your posts specifically as a source for this learning.
So, once again, thanks
I’m glad Shankar.
When I was saying ‘you’ above (instead of ‘one’) it seemed harsh, but that was my point. One little language change and it was better.
Ummm…yessss, well, I wasn’t going to go there, as I figured it would go over like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl, but since you brought it up, Louis… Yes, let’s just say that most women have had lots & lots of opportunities to develop patience with our male ‘superiors’. Please don’t get me wrong, guys - I know women do it too - and there have been several instances on this forum where a female member has shared her wealthh of wisdom in a patronizing manner. But in my experience, there is the ever present need for men to assert their authority on most every subject under the sun (excluding childbirth), as well as the female tendency to salve the ego that’s behind it. It’s as old as the hills, and we’ve gotten really, really good at receiving advice from men.
This post will prob. be seen as divisive, and I’ll delete it if asked. It might be good for men to read, though - as it will be good to hear the male p.o.v. Don’t hold back, let me have it. Do you guys find women to be patronizing? Does the patronizing generally come from another man? Or does it come from both sexes?
Do you guys find women to be patronizing? Does the patronizing generally come from another man? Or does it come from both sexes?
Basically, no, I don’t find women to be particularly patronizing, probably the opposite. I’d say the AVERAGE man is probably more disposed to pre-emptively seize his ‘senior’ position than the AVERAGE woman. It’s also probably true that on the average, he’s more likely to seize it over a woman than over a man. So if a woman arises in a scene like this, she may find it harder to get listened to. Of course, we’re talking about averages here – any given woman can be more egotistically assuming than any given man, and any given woman can certainly have even stronger gender-prejudices than any given man.