Seems like a lot of pranayama for someone who has repeatedly mentioned that he is running on the “high” side in the energy department. From reading the lessons, I always got the impression that staying on a 2 to 1 ratio of meditation to pranayama might be in our best interests in order to progress most quickly and with as little turbulence as possible.
Of course this is all inference on my part from what Yogani has written, but I currently do 2.5 minutes of pranayama, 1 yoni mudra kumbhaka and 8 minutes of meditation followed by 3 minutes or so of samyama. No energy imbalances here to report about as long as I stick to this formula, but we all know how seductive the energy side of the equation can be! An extra 1 minute on any of these practices can be enough to put me a wee bit over.
There aren’t any right answers and we all have to manage our practices to the best of our abilities, but interested to see how others balance these practices out or as we shrink our routines, what Yogani recommends in terms of ratios?
Hi Anthem and Jim:
A 1:1 ratio between spinal breathing pranayama and deep meditation may be a bit front end loaded, but everyone is different. I would not say that 1:2 is the ideal SBP/DM ratio, because it could be too much SBP in some cases and a 1:4 ratio could work better for some (as in 5 min SBP and 20 min DM). I think we can say with some certainty that more SBP than DM could be courting energy overloads, but those with a long background in kriya yoga (an SBP path) might disagree.
It is hard to say what the ideal balance will be between spinal breathing and deep meditation. It really depends on individual purification and opening, and on where a person is on their path. It is all over the lot among the many practitioners here. So the right answer is what works best for the practitioner, and that puts it squarely in the hands of self-pacing.
We offer basic guidelines in the lessons (ratios somewhere between 1:4 and 1:2), and after that we each must find our own balance. If there are energy difficulties, then different ratios and times should be tried, keeping in mind the probable delay in effects for several days or weeks with any new configuration. So baby steps are recommended when making changes in any aspect of our routine. Unless, of course, we are dealing with a major overload -- then we should cut back immediately, regroup and ground for a while, and come back with baby steps later on according to our bhakti.
What we know for sure is that spinal breathing pranayama and deep meditation together in sequence are far more powerful than either one is as a stand alone. If we consider that kriya yoga practitioners are trained to do spinal breathing for hours every day, often with limited results after years of practice, it is pretty amazing that a few minutes of spinal breathing becomes industrial strength yoga when followed by 15-20 minutes of deep meditation. It goes the other way too. Deep meditation becomes much more effective when preceded by spinal breathing. Judiciously add on samyama, asanas, mudras, bandhas, kumbhaka, chin pump, bastrika, etc ... and hang on to your hat (while self-pacing). So it goes in the new world of open source integrated yoga practices.
Wish I could be more specific, but I think the variations on ratios and times mentioned by practitioners in this topic alone tell the tale. We each are doing whatever is necessary with the tools we have available.
Hence...
The guru is in you.
Oh, I didn’t mean the energy symptoms are a result of negativity! I agree with you, physical symptoms first, then mental, and then emotional due to a spinning mind and then, according to the L of A, negative things start to manifest in life with increadible precision!
Day one: without symptoms.
Day two: I wake up in the morning with a headache, scratch my rashes, I get irritated, I think “S H I T, I’ve overdone it - what a jerk I am!”, I raise up too quickly in the bathroom hitting the head in the mirror, I say “Ouch, God I’m a clumsy idiot”, the ringing in the ear gets louder, the cat pees on the bed and runs around the flat with wet paws spreading it out - I silently curse it, I crash a plate in the kitchen while doing breakfast, I miss the tube, I get late for work, I then get into a fight at work, the students protest against everything - self-destructive thoughts continue to pile up in a mind on the verge of exploding, I end up in a private email fight with a forumite, I buy an expensive mobile phone of a brand I hate and when I remember I hated the illogical menues I sell it for half the price immediately just to get rid of it - loosing lots of money I could have spent more wisely, I get home after work and my bills turn out not having been paid so loads of penalty fees are all over my doormat, hot sunburn feeling inside of my skin all over, pressure in the head, in the evening I impulsively break up from my relationship due to thoughts like “I wont let my anger and false accusations hurt another innocent man again, I better break up before I get too bitchy with him” followed by terrible feelings of depression and self-loathing that wants me to crawl out of my skin - patterns playing with me ruthlessly, and à propos skin - there is was: the itching scratch, scratch etc etc etc. Going to sleep, exhausted and tired. Waking up in the middle of the night finding myself scratching inside of thighs and the whole genital area until I bleed, turning like a propeller in the bed… then despair is there for sure!
Negativity all over the place. From one day to another. “Mind creates reality.” Not a sight of any witness or awareness in it at all.
Yep! I don’t try to find my way back to the relaxing witness mode when being in that state. I walk, and walk and walk and drink water and drink water. I go out in the rain or snow and sit down for an hour on a cool rock in the forest that chills my burning root chakra to a comfortable temperature, at least temporarily. I desperately eat meat, masturbate to get energy draining orgasms, exercise, clean the flat, go into the city to go shopping just to move arond in low frequent areas…
I’m a poor sight when in overload mode.
And a sight for sore eyes when flying high in angelic mode blazing off light that knocks poor muslims from Kuwait to the floor!
PS: I’ll stay with rump notch, then!
Thanks, Yogani and Anthem. I’ll tinker with that ratio a bit. Really, I’ve arrived at 10/10 simply by starting with 10/20 and having scaled back the meditation portion…so there’s no particular intelligence there.
Yogani, let me ask a naive beginnerish question: what do you mean by “hang on to your hat”? Are you refering to the whiz-bang energetic/ecstatic experience of kundalini arousal?
I guess what I’m asking is this: once spiritual energy is up and running, is there meaningful reason to do further energy work via these other practices? Or are they a toolset for getting that energy moving, period?
Hi Jim:
By “Hang on to your hat,” I mean accelerated progress on all fronts within us – both energetic and in cultivating stillness. Both of these are multi-dimensional. Obviously, no one can do it all at once. Hence the proviso, “while self-pacing.”
Each practice has its own particular angle and influence on the whole, and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So just because we are getting a boost out of one practice, it does not mean the other practices are not going to add new momentum with balance. Not all energy practices are the same. On the other hand, there is only so much purification and opening the nervous system can accommodate in any given time frame, so it all has to be regulated for that.
In the AYP lessons, the practices are put more or less in the order of influence and importance. But there can be some shuffling according to individual need. For example, samyama can be moved up the list with good effect. Other things are best left in the order given for undertaking them, like deep meditation, spinal breathing, and the mantra enhancements.
It is not expected that everyone will be doing all the practices in every sitting beyond the core practices of spinal breathing and deep meditation. Beginners may tend to strive for a “full boat” more than advanced practitioners. The more seasoned we become, the more we are able to accomplish with less – the momentum/flywheel effect. Even so, advanced practitioners can benefit from new angles of practice from time to time. It keeps it interesting. There are always new openings. The trick is to find them within the context of our own unwinding karmic matrix, without going off the deep end. The full range of available practices are a tool kit for that.
So, no – one energy practice leading to an active kundalini does not rule out the other energy practices. But self-pacing might, at least for a while. And then it is baby steps…
The guru is in you.
Thanks. Maybe one day I’ll have headroom to add a practice or two and see for myself. It’s hard to imagine that day, or that I’d seek energy when the stillness is what I most crave, but time will tell.
I can attest to the momentum/flywheel effect. When I started, I was aware that practices continued after I got up, even after properly lengthy rest period. And that continuity has unquestionably deepened and magnified over the years (and with that acceleration comes greater and greater pacing need).
I wish the accelerating flywheel meant less backtracking into grasping mind-ishness. But I have to keep relearning the fact that all those drives never disappear (or even, really, decrease), they just grow more and more transparent and thus transcendable. The tune keeps playing, but it becomes more obvious that it’s blasting out of a laughably cheap cheesy speaker. Why somedays I’m more liable to get hooked in spite of the transparency is just one of those unknowable things; more transparency generally means more consistent transcendence, but the two are definitely not synchronous processes. My natural inclination would be to work at mindfulness, but AYP has convinced me to seek less to control the process (you may find it hard to believe, Yogani, but I was even worse on that score before…)
emc, lots of things I can relate to. I come from what I describe as an “Oh, $hit” family…everything even mildly annoying that happened would always elicit a loud, utterly aggrieved cry of “Oh, $hit!”. That’s hurt me (because I followed that example for years), but also helped, because I see that mindset so very clearly and precisely.
You know how the trick in meditation is to never get annoyed with yourself for drifting off mantra? that the practice is to gently, neutrally, bring mind back to mantra? That, in fact, that process of drift/return is precisely what meditation is about? There’s a deeper place within that unjudgingly can guide oneself back to mantra, and that starts to feel more and more like the Real Thing, while the distracting thoughts and experiences start to feel more and more like mere noise. It’s an internal flip of perspective, and meditation teaches you the knack.
You’ve been meditating long enough that you have that knack. Can you apply it to your everyday life? when things go wrong, can you return to witness as you feel yourself about to go into “oh-$hit” land? Can you return to witness if you’re all the way in “oh-$hit” land? Can you return yourself to witness if you’re dealing with the meta “oh $hit” effect of realizing that you fell in the trap? Or the meta meta “oh-$hit” effect of realizing you fell into the trap of being annoyed at falling in the trap? or being annoyed at being annoyed? Or being annoyed at being annoyed at being annoyed?
Can you, in other words, develop a kneejerk, almost innate reaction to recognizing that sort of thing as “scenery”? The “Oh $hit” reaction (and the judging that precedes it) is always scenery. Always noise. The self waits patiently for the drama to end. The entire process is a mere hiccup that is simply to be let go of, not “worked on” (just as we don’t “work on” issues that come up while in meditation).
I remember a few years ago, I was walking in light clothing and it started raining. Everyone starting running for cover and exclaiming, reaching for umbrellas or shelter. I instinctually did the same. And then I realized…why? I felt like a thousand tons of baggage had dropped off my shoulders as I simply kept walking. Wet. Just like before, only wet. Not defiant or exuberant, and not particularly proud of my equanimity. Just wet, that’s all, and seeing absolutely no sane reason to judge wetness as “bad”. I felt so free. “Oh $hit” was gone, and it never strongly came back (though I do get caught in other sorts of drama still).
I sometimes use umbrellas. And you can spend your hour perched on your Cold Rock. It’s not about ceasing to act or react appropriately. But you bathe in love whether you choose the lady or the tiger. Blessed if you do, blessed if you don’t.
Hi emc
That sure was a horrible day!
Do you know what I would be very interested to know? I would like know what one of your days is like when you are in angelic mode.
Please?
TI
I hope today is gentler.
Thank you for your willingness to share. I admire your courage and honesty. You certainly inspire me to respect my own self pacing and the Law of Attraction!
In gratitude,
-m
Thank you for sharing this. It is incredibly helpful. I think actually using the mantra ‘I am’ a few times as a bridge from “oh ****” to watching the scenery might be the most helpful for me. Your comparison of how we gently return to the mantra in meditation is like gently returning to the witness when being sucked into the drama is splendid…it made it shine!
more thanks!
-m
Thank you, matangi!
But hey, guys… That’s an example of how one day may look like. The overload I have has now been keeping on for 6 weeks - lots and lots of negativity has manifested in my life during that period of time. If you read Iced_Earths threads you will see the overload can go on for several months perhaps years if it’s really bad: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2558 http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2210 http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2063 http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1791
Jim, yes, I can do that kneejerk! I am constantly “knowing” it’s all scenery, at least on an intellectual level. But when it’s really bad and the pendulum is in maximum swing (turning point) on the mind-side, that’s about what’s left of awareness… an intellectual “knowing” what it’s all about, but with no ability to be present in the Now and do the “knack”. On such days I’d say it’s pretty difficult to even come up with the idea of switching into witness - when I’m really depressed I’m totally trapped in patterns and cannot break out of it.
On most days, though, I’m aware of my choice and the insanity going on, but I choose not to get into witness state since it builds up energies very much. That would be “mindfulness” to me - a very powerful spiritual practice. And we just agreed that “But less resistance (i.e. more surrender) inexorably leads to more energy, which leads to more rash.”, didn’t we? Getting into a witness mode implies exactly that to me; to stop resisting and just rest in witness mode increases energies, I’m afraid.
If low frequency is required to stop higher energies running mad in my system I have this idea I have to put up with the negativity that my mind produces. Perhaps I’m wrong there, but at least the rashes diminish that way - if I allow myself to be really, really mindy and don’t fight it. I never loose my bhakti, though! I know why I’m going through this period, I know it’s a phase that will pass, I know it’s worth every minute of suffering. I can’t/won’t break free, but I don’t take it half as serious as before! I can start laughing occasionally in the middle of the chaos! Actually, often my face cracks up in a smile by automatic yoga movements! Feels strange to be sad, mad and upset inside and feel the corners of the mouth raise! Stillness giving a small reminder, which I’m very grateful for!
Tibetan Ice,
I think it’s better to answer a question like that when in angelic mode. The answer I can give now I fear will only show the memories and interpretations of my mind. In this thread and in this and following posts I tried to explain a little of my “knowings” when in angelic mode: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3383#29059 .
It’s not even a ‘day’ - it’s out of time and space. It is. And it’s a constant falling in love with form, with movement, with existence. I feel like my body is run like a robot. I don’t eat. Eating happens. I don’t lift the spoon to my mouth. The body is being fed - arm lifts the spoon by itself. I don’t walk. Legs walk or dance with an enormous joyous aliveness sparkling inside. When that happens I get so enormously touched I cry, and cry, and cry, and laugh, and life lives itself totally effortlessly. I watch. The awe and gratefulness knows no end. I don’t drive the car - IT drives the car and the ride is so unbelievably smooth - perfectly driven. Everything feels like floating - I don’t know if that is what people call the “flow”, but I can just relax and follow. The intelligence taking care of it all is so enormous, and so perfect and so loving! Everything is so perfect. If I close my eyes on those days, the world disappears. It goes black. After meditation especially, it’s a trip to walk on the ground… There is none! I walk in space. Nothing is solid, I walk like on cotton and don’t know if my feet are an inch below the surface or above the surface of the ground. Spontaneous healing occurs, my mouth seems to say the right words to those who need to hear it, arms fly out in mudras (often right hand blazing light to ‘others’ third eye - there are actually no ‘others’)… But this is like… a limping description… Feels very weird to try to describe it now. There are just no questions left those days… There’s just… grace, openness, acceptance, love and freedom. All those klichées… but that’s how it is… Whoever ‘I’ was before looses all significance on those occasions… I’m suddenly insignificant. And that’s freedom.
Hi emc
Thank you very much for sharing. I really appreciate it. You have given me new insight.
My initial comment is that your perceptions and experiences sound exactly like the excerpts from this little book I have called “The Pocket Tibetan Buddhism Reader”.
Here is my favorite from it: To Abide in Awareness
Without a center, without an edge;
The luminous expanse of awareness
That encompasses all–
This vivid, bright vastness:
Natural, primordial presence.
Without an inside, without an outside
Awareness arise of itself, as wide as the sky,
Beyond size, beyond direction, beyond limits–
This utter, complete openness:
Space, inseparable from awareness.
Within that birthless, wide-open expanse of space,
Phenomena appear–like rainbows, utterly transparent.
Pure and impure realms, buddhas and sentient beings,
Are seen, brilliant and distinct.
As far as the sky pervades, so does awareness.
As far as awareness extends, so does absolute space.
Sky, awareness, absolute space,
Indistinguishably intermixed:
Immense, infinitely vast–
The ground of samsara,
The ground of nirvana.
To remain, day and night, in this state–
To enter this state easily–this is joy.
Emaho!
shabkar
TI
This is a timely discussion for me. In the past couple of months, I saw a rash pop up on the lower portion of my left leg (between knee and ankle). I have been practicing more regularly and deeply in the past several months so I knew this was energy related.
Interestingly after a week or so, a symmetrical rash appeared my right leg. This was slightly worse and more itchy. I was much more aware of it because of the itchiness.
After another week, both rashes went away only to return again. I guess I am pushing the envelope in my practices so have ramped up on grounding practices like long walks and qigong.
This rash has become a good indicator on my energy dashboard for what’s happening inside me energetically. I find that even though I can feel the energy flows more than ever before, I have not felt that the energy flow has been excessive ever. So I am going to take these rashes as a caution sign and keep a close eye on energy flows and make sure I allocate plenty of time for grounding practices.
The information on this forum is much appreciated. A special thanks to Yogani for this wonderful and innovative open model around inner yoga practices.
Hi jupiter and welcome to the forum!
I’m glad this topic reached you right in time! The way you see the rashes as an indicator is great! That’s how I see them too! (That’s the definition of “great” - it only means I agree! )
That qi gong thing, though… Is it really grounding? Perhaps it’s different with different types of qi gong. They are as many different types as they are in yoga! I’m sometimes doing zinheng qi gong (medical qi gong) and it brings up a LOT OF CHI (practice actually called “lift up chi”) - not very grounding at all… much focus on the crown and hara line through the body, the “pillar”, connecting heaven and earth. That definitely increases my rashes… What type are you doing, and in what way can you be certain it’s really grounding?
That is a good point you bring up. I am doing Spring Forest Qigong (http://www.springforestqigong.com/). Am relatively new to that, but find it to be balancing in many ways. I need more experience doing it before being more definitive about its effects.
Hi,
This morning when I got up and looked in the mirror I noticed that I have a red round rash on my third eye. It is sort of oval in shape and is directly between my eyebrows about a 1/2 inch up.
I’m thinking that it has something to do with the purple and green lights I’m seeing and “pushing and pulling” from my third eye during breathing routines. I wrote about it here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3773
Hi everyone,
I’d just like to add my take of rashes and other medical symptoms that sometimes occur during practices.
Before my kundalini awoke I practised self growth and healing from the Western point of view. Included in this was the teachings of Louise L Hay and her book/s ‘You Can Heal Your Life’. Her belief is that for every illness or disease there is an underlaying thought pattern or metaphysical reason for the ailment.
Since kundalini awakened I’ve kept a light curious awareness of what happens physically and the correlation with Louise L Hays and found that in a high percentage of cases she is correct. I say a ‘light awareness’ because I’ve learnt not to self diagnose as this can often lead to a jump to the wrong conclusion and it’s best not to interfere with the natural kundalini/healing process.
As an example, a rash can mean many things and in the Hays book one diagnosis is that we are allergic to some one or someone is ‘getting under our skin’. As our experience with another person clears with kundalini the rash will appear for awhile then fade once the experience with the person has cleared.
In my experience, all of our memories (good and bad) are held in our bodies, organs, muscles, nerve endings etc. This includes experiences such as our parents influence, religious teachings - all of the things that kundalini or personal growth practices to clear us of so that our ‘true’ self can surface and the false face of the ego diminishes.
Yogani mentioned in another post that the area of medical symptoms and rashes is another area that can be studied - maybe Louise L Hays already has the answer.
A rash can appear symmetrically as in kundalini or it may appear on only one side of the body if we are dealing with masculine or feminine issues. There are many different forms of rashes so there could be various reasons of why they are there and what we need to clear or what we are clearing with kundalini.
Recently I read a report from doctors who have studied melanomas and they have found melanomas appear of the left side of the body more than on the right, regardless of age, gender, skin types etc - they just can’t provide an explanation for it. Maybe it’s to do with an imbalance of the feminine/ masculine or the metaphysical reason that Louise L Hay has discovered…who knows?
Amaargi
Hello - I’m a newbie - but carefully watching this conversation.
Both my husband and I have itchy rashes all over our body but mostly at the base of our spines.
We are both new to meditating regularly ( but we do daily) and trying to figure this all out - no clue what pranayama means, for example.
Any help is useful.
HI welcome to the forum
Are you practicing AYP and following the main lessons? here if you are let us know what practices you are doing and for how long. If not let us know what practices you are following.
For an an explanation of Pranayama see this FAQ Pranayama; what is it?
Also see what Yogani has to say about Kundalini rashes in this thread here
Hope this is of help to you.
I have a red line on the skin of my - excuse me, I’m going to use the phrase used earlier in this thread! - ass crack. It never used to be there… I had a rash develop there when I received a transmission, and that went away quite fast but I see I now have a red line which looks definitely permanent… I’d love to know if anyone else has this… and if it really is permanent.
It’s not exactly pretty!
An extra 1 minute on any of these practices can be enough to put me a wee bit over.
)