According to the scripture Jesus fell on his knees in the garden of Getsemane…asking God if he could possibly take the burden of the crucifiction off his shoulders. But he added - “thy will be done”.
So - even Jesus, the enlightened one, was capable of despair…
So much has been added and subtracted over thousands of years regarding what it means to be enlightened…
I can’t help it, but keep coming back to “letting go”…“surrender”…
The greater the surrender, the deeper the realization.
And it never stops…does it…it is always “Thy will be done”…and it is never anywhere else but right here.
Right now.
I thought that was all there was to know…that omniscience was the perception of NOW…of Presence…deeper and broader…expanding in all directions.
And then the talents we are born with will decide what things we will be wizzards at - be it chemistry or music or running or anything else.
When presence preceives itself it is awareness that shines. The light of awareness understands what it touches. It is instant understanding. Omniscience in and of THIS moment. Not as in solving a riddle…but as in seeing what is. It knows itself. And that is all that is, no?
Just some ramblings from the sofa in my little “hule” in Norway…
Hi Katrine,
Yes I remember that part of the Bible story well, and I even remember Jesus getting mad at the money lenders in the church, but I don’t think that contradicts what I am saying here…A truely enlightened being would at some point have to get to a point where emotions are left behind. It may have happened after Jesus was crucified for him, I don’t know. It may not have happened at all for him and maybe he wasn’t “truely” enlightened. No one REALLY knows. So that said, I still have a hard time believing that SwamiG is a truely enlightened being after reading through all her complaining and such over having to still do things for herself and not being waited on hand and foot by her devotees. She may be on her way to enlightenment as we all are, and she may have the ability to transfer Shakti energy to others, but she has not transcended her ego nor her emotions it seems. And to me, someone living in 24/7/365 bliss would not be speaking the way she does, but would be able to be unattached to the suffering of this world.
In Love,
Carson
Not sure of a synonym, but when a train is derailed that means it comes off the tracks and starts heading off in unknown directions. (I work for the railroad )
I don’t think emotions are left behind at all. Nothing is left behind. Everything is.
Enlightenment’s a hard concept to grasp, and perhaps it’s even incapable of being grasped. It must be experienced.
Years ago, when I was trying to understand who I was, what I was; reading this book and doing that workshop, etc., I found myself very disappointed,confused and frustrated. So, disillusioned with the whole scene, I just fell away from it all; stopped focussing on the need to know more. It was only then that I began to understand a little about myself. In the same way that silence has its own sound, nothingness has its own consciousness. But if we seek it out, we just move further away from the very essence…
Bummer, now I’m confused again…
Hi Scott,
Ok…I don’t disagree with you there…but there are different levels of enlightenment right? We can agree on that I think…So if there are different degrees, then there has to be a highest, “perfect” enlightenment right? Maybe it’s not possible for a “human” to attain that level while on “3D” Earth, and only the Source can be this level, but then what is the second top level? Probably something along the lines of having no emotion but love? This is what I’m trying to get across…Don’t know if I’ve succeeded yet, but I eagerly await more conversation.
Hi apachecheif,
Yes…the quest for knowledge can be a double edged sword, totally agree. While it may be nice to fill our heads with statistics and language and intelligent ideas, it is only when we let go of all of that, that can we truely start to understand our Selves. That Self being the silent conciousness of the “nothingness”. Seek nothing other than liberation from the seeking.
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson,
From a dualistic viewpoint, if god is perfect, all knowing, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, then he should be simultaneously aware of each sparrow that flies and each leaf that falls, every blade of grass, every atom in the universe and every thought of every being at every time. So I believe he should be able to ace any test if he wants to but he wants nothing.
From a non dual perspective, enlightenment is becoming one with that god, or finding out that there was no separation in the first place. So I believe that an enlightened person is one who is one with the one who is one. He should be able to ace any test.
My belief is subject to refinement and change as I do not believe that I am enlightened yet. Heck I don’t care what I believe and am ready to throw away all beliefs to experience nothing. Belief to me is the great curse of humanity and simultaneously the great hope of humanity, another paradox.
Exactly, that is/was my dilemma. Swamig says she experience emotions like anger etc but they are just in the moment and it is not held on to and next moment they may be totally calm, having forgotten all about the anger. Swamig justifies herself by saying that even Christ exhibited anger so it is okay for an enlightened person to show anger. I don’t know about Christ but that statement to me is an admission of her anger. I believe that to have an emotion like anger overcome one, requires that person to be unconscious in that moment of anger, an enlightened person cannot become unconscious even for a moment so there is no possibility of anger. The bhagvat gita defines one of the qualities of an enlightened person as one who is free from anger.
About living in 24/7/365 bliss, swamig says she has left behind the bliss to enter realisation. She says bliss has nothing to do with realisation as it is an experience and is not permanent. Sometimes while complaining about her students, she says that she has sacrificed the bliss and is keeping her body in order to help students rather than merging into bliss. When I mentioned that if god is “Sat Chit Ananda” then bliss or Ananda should be present in realisation, she changed her previous stand by saying that realisation is 100% bliss and it can never be understood in duality.
Here is what she wrote about bliss http://guruswamig.com/loveblissguruji.html and here is what the supposedly realised sages have to say about bliss http://guruswamig.com/loveblisssages.html
Thank You dear Yogani for contributing to this topic, would you like to comment on “can there be realisation without bliss”
It felt so good to believe that I had finally found a living guru who could take me to realisation, but then it seems we did not deserve each other !
Thank You,
Mufad.
The way I define it, there’s one enlightenment. It’s the complete shift in perception where “you” aren’t existing from the ego any more. Of course tons of other things can happen as a result of spiritual practices, and people can use the word enlightenment for any of those things.
So, to each his own on the definition.
These are all concepts that don’t really have a basis in reality. “The map is not the place”. To get a good map of enlightenment, you have to experience it. I did once…caught a glimpse, so that experience was useful in getting the idea of what enlightenment is and isn’t. Before that, I could have come up with tons of different ideas and beliefs about what it could be…and of course I did.
But it’s really not as cool as we think beforehand. I’m sure it will surprise you.
Hi Mufad,
I think we are on the exact same page. A truely God Realized being would be able to ace any test. There is no information in existance that this being would not have immediate access to in my opinion. But you are right, the paradox of beliefs being both the curse and the hope is very true. Unable to be understood within a dualistic perspective.
About anger…I totally agree with you again…What on earth could a God Realized being have to be angry about? And would this being if it DID feel anger not just let that feeling float by noticed by unheeded?
I really don’t know about SwamiG after reading those threads you posted. There DEFINITELY are different levels to “realization” and I really don’t think she is on the right track anymore. Maybe it is just that she is definitely not the guru for me, but a lot of what she says I take real issue with. She contradicts herself so often, and she does so with such an egotistical attitude it just flabergasts me. How can one complain about staying on Earth to help people? If it causes her so much suffering, why would she not change things up? It’;s like she thrives on suffering and complaining about it. Not very gurulike in my eyes. But if she is helping some people, then that’s great. Helping them to where I dunno, but if they are happy, hell, who am I to judge?
Love,
Carson
Hi Scott,
I have no expectations for my personal enlightenment, it will be what it will be, but if you think that enlightenment has only one level, and that level is the level of egolessness, how can you think that SwamiG is enlightened? Everything I have ever read of her has been absolutely littered with ego. Ego and suffering because of the cross she has to bear…did Christ complain as he carried his cross to Calvary? Not to anyone but himSelf/God.
Love,
Carson
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