Ever Doubt your Inner Silence?

I always had a very short fuse. With my practice I have calmed down so much, that I had almost forgotten what anger really used to be like.
Then yesterday, my daughters were playing with the dog… and I guess he was not having a good day… so he turned around and snapped at my daughter… and really bit her hard (did not break skin… but was all black and blue)… She screamed so loud… and for a few mins I saw a part of me that I had forgotten I had… I yelled at the dog… and send him out of the house. Later after I cooled down… I could not believe I still had that in me. My poor dog… he knows he has done something wrong… so he sits and looks at me with sad eyes… and I have hugged him a million times since… but it tears my heart to know that I could snap like that any day… I cannot explain how heavy my heart feels because of my action yesterday…
This is what I have been scared of… not the anger part of it… but slipping back into depression… At the back of my head I always have a fear… this silence is not real… I am making a story and living it… I will slip back into depression any day… and this time I will not be able to get out… Yesterday was a confirmation of my fear… it did not come as depression, but the other negative that I did not even remember I had… Anger.

Hi Shanti,
Even big big gurus fall down after they have reached great heights. We can never expect to overcome these imperfections completely. Even enlightenment as yogani defines is “in the light”

So the imperfections can always come back to us. We become more immune to being affected by them though.
Also coming to your fear that “you are making a story and living it”, that is a possibility in this path. We sometimes make a mental make-up that we are becoming better, no more anger, we are dealing with situations well etc… Especially when we think of yoga and god all day that can happen. Yes we are definitely becoming better but we really dont know how and where it is happening. I feel these nature/behavior changes are the ones that come in the last. Even if u see a vision or found a siddhi, you might not have yet overcome anger. We can see lot of guru examples for that.
My suggestion is to not to judge yourself w.r.t. perfection or change and just do practices as a daily routine. May be avoid thinking about yoga all the time too.
-Near

Hi Shweta !
Take courage to face your fear, laugh at it !
For me to face fear takes only one realization:
I am (and ayam) -
You are and you will always be.
How I am and how I will be - this changes, but I always will be.
How you are and how you will be - this changes, but you always will be.
The guru is in me and it is in you !
Love and Light
Wolfgang

Depression is completely different than anger. There is no strength, internal or external, in depression. Depression is the absence of power; it’s standing outside of your power. Anger is inhabiting your power and fully exercising your inner strength. I think your anger toward your dog was healthy, Shanti - he shouldn’t have bitten your daughter, and whether or not he comprehended why he was being punished, the point is that you didn’t shrink from the full expression of your power. There’s nothing wrong with righteous anger - Jesus was furious with the traders in the temple. Lastly, dogs are famously manipulative in post-anger situations such as these, and will milk you for all you’re worth if you’re not careful. I’d advise not looking into your dog’s eyes until the situation has passed. :slight_smile: He’s fine - really.

Shweta,
I really like your post! Such honesty…you are greater than I am!
Of course everyone here wants to help you, because you’re such a great soul, but I don’t see it helpful for me to go into the supportive role here and tell you “don’t worry”. If you do something you wish you hadn’t, then you should see to it that you don’t do it again. Who cares how immersed in light you are if you still do things you hate?
Near (as well as Yogani) said that enlightenment isn’t perfection, but I disagree. Anything less than perfection I won’t personally accept as enlightenment, and I would hope that you wouldn’t either, Shweta. I’m pretty sure that you, just like myself, seek enlightenment partly to enrich the goodness in life. I’m quite sure that real enlightenment does this!
So if you find yourself doing bad things, even though you feel peaceful, then stop doing the bad things. Only do good things! This is far more important than inner peace, because inner peace without expansion of peace is worthless in this world. It’s like a person hoarding everything for themselves, stuffing everything they can get their hands on into their basement and hiding it from everyone else. Who likes someone like that? Who wants to be someone like that? I know I don’t want to be that type of person. If I have inner peace, I want to share it…and that comes by living a good life.
Of course, your offense wasn’t so bad at all. You yelled at your dog when it bit your child. You’re not a bad person…but if you want to be the best person, then you should always think about what you’re doing before you do it. I guess it would help to think, “Would a good/enlightened/peaceful person do this?” It’d be helpful to have a concept in your mind of what an ideal peaceful person acts like, and in every situation, see that you’re acting that way.
Then the ideal and your rising inner silence will combine to create one great human being.
And also, if you’re scared of your inner silence going away…well, good. Things come and go in this life. Peace can come and go, as you well know. Depression can come and go. But as Wolfgang said, “you will always be”. There is tranquility and goodness in that, so don’t worry about inner silence leaving you and depression coming to you, because they probably will…it’s like death. There’s no reason to worry about it because it’s bound to happen. No matter what, there’s no escaping it!
It’s nice to have inner silence, and it’s horrible being depressed. We all know that…but don’t you know that aversion and attachment need to be let go of in order to attain enlightenment? So why be attached to spiritual things? These things are just as good as anything else in life. It’s all impermanent, so it’s best to let it all go.
Anyway, I’m in over my own head here. I hope this helps you in some way.

Shanti,
Anger is a much maligned emotion.
When people don’t feel that anger is appropriate… that’s when they get stuck in depression. As long as you fantasize about gun shopping every so often, you won’t have any problem with depression. There are so many bleeping idiots out there that you have to keep your edge sharp. Just watch a few primate documentaries–aggression is how we keep our territory ours. Your dog overstepped its bounds, simple as that.
-Yoda

Hi Shweta,
I agree with Wolfgang, face your fear and it will set you free. You know how to do it, (since we are both big fans), a little “Katie” should help, is it true that you will slip back into depression one day…or are you scared of the thought that you might? What’s the worst that can happen, you know how to get yourself out of depression, you have done it before. :slight_smile:
A little more Katie here too:
“Yesterday was a confirmation of my fear” is that absolutely true?
A lot of people who seem to be awake say that when enlightened that they still have all emotions, anger, sadness, etc., the only difference is that they do not attach to the thoughts, see them for what they are and choose how they would like to act.
Sounds reasonable to me!

Hi Scott,

Maybe we will all find enlightenment when we see perfection in our mistakes? :wink:

To me, if the huge improvements in the quality of my life from all the meditation and practices I have done so far are any indication, I am quite sure too!

To paraphrase some of the great sages: The idea of enlightenment is not acting in any particular way but just being, who can understand with thinking the no-mind of being? Not me that’s for sure! :clown_face:

Anthem,
It’s easy to think of what an enlightened person would probably be like. All you have to do is think about the nature of enlightenment itself. From what “they” say, it’s when the mind isn’t run amuck with the tendencies everyone generally has, such as lust, anger, greed, desire, etc. When the mind is established in its essential nature (meaning, nothing moving it)…pure being, etc…
Also, enlightenment is often referred to as “no-self”. I’m only speculating here, since I’m completely unenlightened, but I think that means there’s no thought that happens, such as “I’m doing this”.
With all this in mind, it could be said that enlightenment is just “pure experience”…yet the enlightened obviously still act in this world. So take all of what’s been said about enlightenment, and think about what that enlightened person would most likely do.
Most likely, they wouldn’t be lustful, angry, greedy, desirous, etc. They most likely wouldn’t be egotistical. They would most likely be very peaceful. No matter what happens, the way they are doesn’t change, because the latent impressions in the mind is what causes reaction. They have no latent impressions anymore.
So it’s easy to see how an enlightened person is. Even the most non-spiritual people understand it when they hear tales about the Buddha, or other truly enlightened people. They think of a person who is very tranquil, peaceful and wise.
These things can be known, unlike enlightenment itself, which must be “experienced”.

Meg said:
I think your anger toward your dog was healthy, Shanti - he shouldn’t have bitten your daughter, and whether or not he comprehended why he was being punished

Agreement with Meg, except stronger – this was the best way to teach your dog an important lesson, and your dog comprehended it, largely because of the immediacy of your response.
Don’t waste any time giving yourself grief or misery over this. Just take a lesson from your dog – get over it, move on, and get back to loving.
Arf! Arf!
:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

You’re a human being. Whether your reaction is “right” or “wrong”, you’re stuck with at least some amount of anger for the duration. You don’t extinguish it (the goal is not to be Mr. Spock), but you naturally begin to detach from it.
Bearing in mind that your original angry impulse was sharp and real and present (natural, a mom protecting her child), in the moments immediately after that first snap:
Did you witness your anger more than before? Was it like you were watching a third person be mad?
Did you recover faster/smoother than before? Did it have less “hold” on you? Did it seem less substantial, and more a sort of overlay?
I’m betting the answer to both is “yes”. If so, things are going great. If not, you’ll be noticing both happening very soon. Don’t judge. Just practice.
One’s silence, by the way, is completely and absolutely immutable. It’s always there beneath and around everything, silently observing. It’s what witnesses stuff like this (and it always does, whether you identify with that witnessing or not!).

Thanks All… you guys are awesome…
Jim… yes, both my answers were yes… I got over it real quick… it was like watching from the outside… you always know exactly what to say… :blush:
Right David, learn from the dog… and get over it. :grin: What would I do without you… :clown_face: :blush:
Meg, I did stop looking at his eyes… and then he did stop staring at me :slight_smile: … gosh!!! did not know a dog could make me feel so guilty… of course the family did not help much either…
Andrew, thanks… I will Katie it… wonder why I did not think of that. :question: :slight_smile:
Yoda “When people don’t feel that anger is appropriate… that’s when they get stuck in depression. " Never looked at depression that way… interesting… I thought I was depressed all the time because I was angry all the time… about everything… Hummmm…
As long as you fantasize about gun shopping every so often, you won’t have any problem with depression”… Wooohhhh!!! don’t know about that one… :wink:
Thanks Scott “It’s nice to have inner silence, and it’s horrible being depressed. We all know that…but don’t you know that aversion and attachment need to be let go of in order to attain enlightenment? So why be attached to spiritual things? These things are just as good as anything else in life. It’s all impermanent, so it’s best to let it all go.” … need to be reminded of these things once in a while. :sunglasses:
Thanks Wolfgang…”How I am and how I will be - this changes, but I always will be.
How you are and how you will be - this changes, but you always will be.
The guru is in me and it is in you
!"… that is beautiful… Thank you… :blush:
Thank you Near. “So the imperfections can always come back to us. We become more immune to being affected by them though”… yes this was the lesson in all of this…
Life has a weird way to teach us something every day of our lives… if only we are open to learn it and accept it.
Thank you… everyone…

Then, don’t worry too much about depression.
Per my postings on depression, depression occurs when one gathers little wisps of pain and disappointment and spins them (like a bird building a nest from twigs) into a horrific cyclone of crippling depression.
Since you’ve developed your witness to the point where you see the insubstantiality of these tendencies, you’ll notice the wisp-gathering before they aggregate into hurricaine strength. You’ll meditate and the wisps will be gone. A “clear” button (like on a calculator)! And you’ll start to notice the pattern between meditation practices, so whereas in the past it seemed like your woes were accummulating, you’ll see that you are actively doing the compiling. And you’ll just giggle.
Again, none of this has to do with silence. Your silence was there before you started practices. You just hadn’t learned to identify with it. You had layers of mud insulating you from it and noise drowning out its call. Just don’t stop practices, or the mud and noise and non-identification quickly recur. Stopping is bad.

BTW, Shanti, I am totally serious that this was the right thing to do – I’m not just being nice to you.
Some people might accuse me of stereotyping, but dogs basically don’t understand English! ( or any other human vocal language). But, (and I’m sorry if this sounds condescending to dogs) they are fantastic at picking up the meaning of human ‘body language’ cues, such as being yelled at and kicked out of the house immediately after doing something very bad.
What I am saying is that, even if you had been ‘enlightened’ and free from anger, the best thing to do at that time would still have been to yell at the dog and kick it out of the house. The dog had to learn an important lesson, and needed some ‘tough love’, not idiot-compassion.

Thanks David…
You, and say something just to be nice to me… :clown_face:
I know you were serious… and I feel I did do the right thing… this post was more because… I was shocked to see the side of me I had forgotten I had… the flash anger that took over me… it just took me by surprise… that is what had me worried… not so much because I yelled at the dog, or kicked him out of the house… or that SPCA may read this and lock me up or something…

Fortunately the center of gravity of the SPCA is probably on your side. Animal-rights groups do attract extremists though, but the more extremist people tend to gravitate towards the more extremist groups, which the SPCA is not. I am sure there are people who would lock you up for this, but fortunately, we deter them by locking them up if they do.
I know you were joking about the SPCA. Just blabbing here. :slight_smile:

Hey Shanti,
Now that everyone has said everything, and I got a late ticket, when you’re at the stage of getting into hi-charge emotional to-dos with the fauna around you, the SPCA looks out more for you than the dog. :stuck_out_tongue:
That makes us the SPCA here. :sleeping: But give your dog a kiss from me anyway… after blindfolding him. :kissing_heart: I don’t want to get manipulated. :grin:

hi shanthi,
From the incident you described, you are perfectly normal. the anger you had was not a “forgotten” part of you nor it was a “precursor to get you back into depression”. you had a natural reaction to that incident, like Jim said your silence is still there and it does not “go away”. when you feel a silence in you it is always real because mind always has the habit of wandering it is never stable. even if you build a story in your mind that you have inner silence, unless it is real it will not last long, not even a day. your silence is real and fear about depression is an illusion, i bet it would not have lasted even in an hour in your mind.
i will tell you an interesting story from Mahabharatha i read in a magazine. Sage Vyasa had a son called Sughar. Ved Vyasa himself was a great sage who has realized the Brahman. Sughar was still more greater in sense he was always in the state of Brahman conciousness. It so happened that Sughar died one day and they were performing last rites for him and Sage Vyasa was crying, screaming in an unconsolable way. The last rites was also attended by Lord Krishna and his friend Arjuna. Arjuna was very much surprised to see Sage Vyasa crying like that. He asked Krishna that why Vyasa is crying so much even after realizing the Brahman and knowing that this is world is ethereal and having so much knowledge about the Brahman itself. For that Lord Krishna replied that Those who have Knowledge, will have Ignorance; Those who have Calmness, will have Turbulence because it is like the Brahman having Maya and Sage Vyasa though having realized Brahman is crying out of love for his son, his compassion towards his son.
So Shanthi, there is nothing to worry if you get angry at something you have to get angry. These things always happen.
P.S. Those who know the above story well, kindly forgive me if I had given any of the information wrong :slight_smile: .

Anthem, Shanti,
What/Who is ‘Katie’ ?

Byron Katie is the author of the book “Loving What is”. her system is call “The Work”… Andrew and I are big fans… we call the process Katie-ing it :slight_smile:
Thanks Satyan… I guess that is why it is said… in this path everything changes and yet nothing really does… :slight_smile: