Yes…
Only… it is not something that happens “around you”. It is you. Radiance is never not here. You are always that. And as such - it truly is your power. But…with “me” as the reference point…I cloud the shine. It is not that I “should not” use the power for my own benefit…it is simply that it is impossible. It can’t be done. When “me” is the reference point…I immediately make the shine unavailable. When I surrender…when I am quiet…the shine of reality floods into the vacant space previously occupied by “me”. The increased radiance… is not really an increase - it is simply less obscured, that’s all.
Christi…
Thanks for sharing your radiance. Embrace it as yourself. Let the intelligence of the shine determine what to do or not do. Nothing is wrong. You are not harming anybody. On the contrary. Don’t be overly concerned with how others are dealing with this. How are you embracing and surrendering to the love you are, is more crucial. Everything starts with you…and ends with you.
Hi Katrine:
I really like your overall train of thought in this last post. I would, however, like to comment on the your above quoted statements.
I disagree with the first statement in that I believe it is indeed possible for any individual to develop spiritual powers and personal ‘presence’…using legitimate training methods with patience and consistency…and then choose to use these for totally selfish agendas focused solely on personal benefit. Many even choose unethical, immoral, and illegal means of doing so. History has recorded countless instances of this in virtually every sphere of human endeavor. Past and present examples include people in all walks of life…from priests and gurus to politicians and CEO’s…and others as well. Here are a few thoughts from other thinkers regarding this:
Lord Acton:
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”
Nadine Gordimer:
“Power is something of which I am convinced there is no innocence this side of the womb.”
Rabindranath Tagore:
“Power takes as ingratitude the writhing of its victims.”
Charles A. Beard:
“Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power.”
Carl Jung:
“Where love rules, there is no will to power; and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other.”
William E. Gladstone :
“We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace.”
I totally agree with your second statement …i.e. that whenever self interest is the reference point, the perpetual infusion of ‘power’ and ‘presence’ immediately becomes impeded and separated from its Source, unable to continually ‘recharge’. Such an individual will only retain influence and power until their formerly fully charged ‘batteries’ use up all of their stored ‘power’.
Lastly, I also disagree with your third quoted statement. I believe that everything starts with God…and ends with God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Source of All, and does not begin and end with us!
Hari OM!
Doc
Hi Doc:
I don’t think divine power and worldly power can be regarded as synonymous, though both are expressing from the same source. One is born of loving surrender and is unlimited. The other is born of external manipulation and is limited. While it may not always be clear which is manifesting in the moment, we will always find out soon enough … “Ye shall know each tree by its fruit.”
Interestingly, there will always be power manifesting in one way or other, either divinely through loving surrender, or in a worldly way through willful expression. In reality, it is always going to be a blend in each of us.
There has never been a spiritual master who did not willfully express the tiniest bit of worldly power (some have expressed a lot of worldly power). And there has never been a powerful megalomaniac without some trace of a soul (some have had a lot of soul).
So it is not a matter of being one or the other. We are all both, and we each choose which way to go on that scale – toward divine expression, or toward egoic expression. The manifestation of power is inevitable and unavoidable. Yet, from where that power is manifesting we can choose – direct from infinite inner silence that is eternal divine love, or through a limited ego that will run us up on the rocks again and again. Is this such a difficult choice?
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani:
Quite so! This was my point exactly. Who can say with certainty that the “worldly power” wielded by one person is not also granted unto them by God just as the “divine power” manifested by another person is? Perhaps each one of us is called to serve God in a uniquely different way in accordance with a Divine Providence…which may or may not be readily understood. The fullest potential of all manifestations and expressions of power within us and through us, for the greatest positive good of all, is dependent upon our willingness to accept our calling for its use with complete surrender to God’s Will, IMO. This is the ultimate act of devotion, is it not?
Unfortunately, there are always some who confuse the Divine Power that manifests within them and through them as their own personal power…created by their own intelligence…developed through their own talents…earned through their own efforts alone…and is thus viewed as the fruits of their own personal merit to do with as they please.
We are all challenged to some degree to look past the Illusion of our own reflection in order to perceive the Presence of God within us, and our At-One-Ment with the Divine Presence as the Ultimate Reality of our Soul Consciousness. I believe that by the Grace of God and the blessings of Divine Providence, all are capable of attaining Self-Realization…if they are willing to receive it.
Hari OM!
Doc
Yes.
But looking beyond this…(I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves; great list, by the way, Doc)…is the fact of Being. I may think i am the doer; I may think I am benefitted by “my actions”…but as long as I take the “me” (humble or not; spiritually educated or not) to be the reference point, I will be stuck in duality. Very simple, really.
Exactly.
Whether we agree or not, Doc, is not so important. What is truly beneficial (to all), is to act according ones own understanding (true understanding - not mental knowledge; “borrowed knowledge”). In other words - it is not beneficial to anyone to know something to be true, and then do something not resonant with this understanding. But we are full of such inner conflicts. If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding. If acted on, the light approaches (because of less resistance), if not - then have I really gained anything other than impermanent comfort? Not only have I harmed “others”; the harm I have done pierces my own heart.
Well…again…we don’t have to agree. Only act on what we understand. This will make both statements true. We are both home - no matter all the appearances of the contrary. The reference point is all.
I am…is not separate from God. There never was “two”.
Katrine, I have said it before and I say it again: YOU WRITE LOVELY POSTS! This is my only guide nowadays, and it is the only guidance I use to interpret other’s actions! Is the light approaching? Yes or No? Do I get an immediate response of TRUTH?
THANK YOU!
Originally posted by Katrine:
“Yes…I am not disputing that the world is full of egos working for themselves…but…whether we agree or not is not so important.”
OK. But if it’s really not important to you whether we agree or not, why do you find it necessary to reply in behalf of your own understanding as if it is important to you?
“What is truly beneficial (to all), is to act according ones own understanding (true understanding - not mental knowledge; “borrowed knowledge”). If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding.”
Your statement assumes that your understanding is always based on truth, and is never subject to the human imperfections of false perception and illusion, does it not? How is that perspective free of attachments to value judgements and personal discriminations? With all due respect, it certainly looks like ego based duality is still the reference point in such self-estimation.
Hari OM!
Doc
Hi Doc:
Of course, “God’s Will” is “ishta,” one’s chosen ideal in the act of bhakti. For one person it may be the deity and/or master of a religious tradition. For another, it may be the unconditioned stillness present within, and everywhere. For yet another, it may be the whispering spirits of nature.
So, what is “God’s Will?” It is that which we are able to surrender to that represents something greater than our limited personal existence. Our longing and devotion to That will take us forward into the unlimited. It does not have to be religious (the concept of “God” is not mandatory). Nor does it have to be non-religious. It is for no one to judge except each of us in our heart. We will know our own tree by its fruit. And we can self-pace accordingly.
The guru is in you.
I have always loved this quote:
“Religious truth is not absolute but relative”. Baha’u’llah
Different perceptions of truth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth
VIL
Hello Yogani:
Indeed! If the concept of ‘God’ is not mandatory, and is neither religious nor non-religious, are we then merely quibbling over semantics? Perhaps a different term would feel more comfortable…more non-sectarian and equitable…or more politically correct here.
Would you prefer ‘Brahman’…or ‘Elohim’…or ‘Higher Power’…or ‘Divine Consciousness’…or what? Are all of these the same in essence, or different in meaning by degree to a given individual? These are ultimately only terms of convenience for the human mind when attempting to reference That which is indefinable, unrestricted, unlimited, and unconditioned in any way, are they not?
Is it ever appropriate for any of us to judge others on the assumption that our self-esteemed spiritual understanding and experience is somehow more infused with Truth? I learned long ago that the manifestation of all gifts, all talents, all knowledge, all spiritual understanding, and all that manifests positive and good within me, through me, and around me comes from the Divine Source of All , and that every manifestation of error, mistake, misunderstanding, and negativity in any form has always been orchestrated by “me” alone…separated from the Source in varying degrees of illusion.
As such, I make no claims for my own views, and merely ask for clarification from others regarding their views.
Hari OM!
Doc
I don’t find it necessary…I love it
I love the fact of Being. It is more important than whether we agree or not.
Doc wrote:
How come you assume that?
My understanding is what it is. So is yours.
I couldn’t possibly answer that, since I never claimed my understanding to be what you assume above. As I said, it is what it is. As is yours.
Self estimation? Is that what it is? laughing
Doc - I’m sorry - I promise I will continue to look for the splinter in my eye that obscures my vision
In the mean time - thanks for responding. I still love it - whether we agree or not.
Hi Katrine:
What a Hoot! Thank you! I’m now radiating with ecstatic laughter.
I made an observation, not an assumption, based on the words that you posted. My observations and questions remain the same, and your attempts to discount and mock them with your cleverly evasive verbal ripostes do not pass unnoticed!
In any event, I didn’t really expect to receive a serious reply from you anyway, as you obviously don’t like to have your ‘truth’ questioned.
That’s very telling in and of itself.
Doc
Hi Doc
Katrine has always been seen by me to be standing pretty firmly in reality. I’ve never seen a false bone in her body here on the forum. I’ve watched her do some very awesome and inspiring unfolding in her spiritual experience over the past year or so, and she has been very kind to share her personal journey with the rest of us here. I know it will be easy to toss my words aside as I am known for being slightly askew in my less than sober meanderings of flighty imaginitive experiences and undisciplined reports, but I don’t think Katrine has a big ego agenda here. In fact, I don’t think Katrine has much of an ego problem at all. I think her’s has actually climbed in the back-seat and is sitting awestruck by the beautiful scenery on the ride named Katrine.
Peace to you sir
Alan
May i jump in here?
This is probably off-topic, but recently i have concluded that the so-called goal of enlightenment probably doesn’t exist. ie the state of complete non-attachment - since such a state would mean a person has become perfect. Who is perfect? Nobody is, in my estimation.
It really comes down to the purpose for being on this earth in the first place. In the Hindu philosophies we aren’t told why we are here. Instead we are told to get away from here. I can’t bring myself to accept this.
So, perhaps there are moments when the ego dissolves but i’ve never met a person i can communicate with who doesnt think or have a tongue. Ego-bashing is just self-reflective since we all have an imperfect ego. My two cents.
To be fair to Doc, there does seem to be an implication there from Katrine that Doc would see a splinter in someone else’s eye, but not a log in his own – which is very much taking the conversation to a personally contentious level. So if folks can make up nicely with some kind words – and move on – that’s good.
By the way, my “praise” for Katrine does not mean I think she is pure and perfect and a saint of the highest order of the cosmos (any order you choose to use). I can state the same recognition for anyone here as I think I observe us all learning and opening. I’m sure she doesn’t estimate herself above and beyond us other mere mortals, I certainly don’t put her there. As far as perfect goes in this world, we are all perfect. Who would want this life experience to unfold any other way than has been provided and played out by the One who is beyond perfection?
Hi Gumpi,
Of course you can jump in anywhere you like . I think everything in life is perfect for what we need to experience in order to realize ourselves.
I think it is our definition of what perfect is that needs adjusting.
If you have an expectation of life being something it’s not, like I should have X amount of dollars in the bank and I should be 6 foot 4 and look like Brad Pitt to be perfect, etc. then we will never have perfection. If we experience what is happening right now to us and realize it is absolutely perfect for us on some level to learn and grow and to eventually find lasting happiness, then everything and everyone is perfect.
All I know is that it feels a lot better to me to view the world like the above and find perfection in what Is and that I feel crappy when my expectations don’t match what is happening to me now.
A
I would, however, like to comment on the your above quoted statements. 
History has recorded countless instances of this in virtually every sphere of human endeavor. Past and present examples include people in all walks of life…from priests and gurus to politicians and CEO’s…and others as well. Here are a few thoughts from other thinkers regarding this:
…i.e. that whenever self interest is the reference point, the perpetual infusion of ‘power’ and ‘presence’ immediately becomes impeded and separated from its Source, unable to continually ‘recharge’. Such an individual will only retain influence and power until their formerly fully charged ‘batteries’ use up all of their stored ‘power’. 
I believe that by the Grace of God and the blessings of Divine Providence, all are capable of attaining Self-Realization…if they are willing to receive it. 
With all due respect, it certainly looks like ego based duality is still the reference point in such self-estimation. 