Hi Alwayson,
As others have mentioned, this is simply not correct.
Any person who has completed yogic sadhana, or any equivalent path, has by definition “raised kundalini”.
Ultimately, kundalini is simply another term for the activity of the full range of consciousness.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
This is what I believe kundalini is
http://www.hermeticresearch.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9
His mistake is in assuming what happened to him will be the same for others.
I challenge you to follow his methods and record your experiences. I am positive that your experiences will be vastly different from his.
I have followed his methods for 5 years. Everything in his books is exactly the way it is. I always try to follow the methods exactly. This is partially documented on other forums. I have NOT experimented with the kundalini stuff, but everything else is 100% right on the money.
This is not a correct criticism of Robert Bruce. The first thing that happens is that you get a huge column of energy up the CENTER channel, which causes a brow strobe. You can actually stop at this point. After REPEATED stimulation, the snake is released. This is in the PDF in the first post.
Hi Alwayson, I was making that statement based on what he wrote here about his own awakening: "The classic description of Kundalini, as being The Serpent of Fire, is badly misunderstood today, in the East and in the West; even by most experts and authors. This is 'not' a symbolic or metaphorical description. This is an accurate description of the physical sensation of Kundalini rising through the body, i.e., this is what it actually feels like when it happens. Imagine a large snake, about as thick as a man's wrist, forcing its way through the perineum (between the anus and genitals) and forcing its way up through the hips and torso, forcing intestines and organs aside, uncoiling 3.5 turns clockwise up through the body, and then up through the neck to just above the crown. This is an unusual sensation to say the least, feeling your internal organs sloshing and being moved aside, etc. The first few times this is done it is uncomfortable, but it is not really painful; just unusual. Note that my description of this sensation excludes the kundalini burning sensation (of variable intensity) that usually accompanies early raising, most especially the first successful raising." This is a classic description of kundalini moving through one of the side chanels. Kundalini moving through the central chanel does not coil upwards through the body. It also does not cause the internal organs to move. The ida and pingala nadis do coil up through the body. Here is a picture: http://tinyurl.com/26j4bsy So you can see where he gets the 3.5 turns thing from. As kundalini leaves the kanda chakra between the 1st and 2nd chakra, and enters one of the side chanels, it will make half a turn to the manipura chakra, one turn to anahata, one more to vissudhi and one more to ajna at the centre of the head. That makes 3.5. From here it will flow either through the sushumna, passing through the brow, or through the brahma nadi passing through the crown. In Robert's case it passed through the crown. I can't say if it was an ida or pingala awakening as it depends if he means clockwise from bottom, or clockwise from top. A central chanel awakening does not involve any "coiling". It is simply a flow of energy directly up through the spine or through the centre of the body, depending on the degree of purification of the sushumna. With regards to kundalini, the best way to approach it is simply to practice, and let things unfold as they do. Then you will know what it is all about through direct experience rather than making statements based on second hand accounts. Everyone's awakening is different. Some are powerful and spectacular (as mine was), other's are much more subtle and barely noticeable. The only real way to know if someone has awakened kundalini is if their body is becoming ecstatic. This only happens as a result of kundalini. Ironically, by the time the body is being transformed into it's ecstatic state, there are many more interesting things going on than kundalini. We are already moving on even as kundalini is coming into full swing. This is one reason why many people with awakened kundalini do not talk about it much. The science of kundalini is already very evolved, and I would recommend that you study it if you are interested (from a range of authors). But there are still quite a few myths around surrounding this subject and it is good for those who have been through an awakening to dispell them when they arise. Christi
Maybe its not in the PDF, but Robert has explained that you first get a column of energy up the CENTER channel, and then only with repeated stimulation the snake is released.
This is a quote from another thing he wrote:
“This was soon followed by a massive energy blasting upwards through the middle of my body, through the center channel.”
I have this in another PDF, which I can email to anyone interested.
That’s a red flag for a thoughtful, informed consumer of yogic techniques, alwayson2. I have been in the presence of 2 people
who raised kundalini and I’m sure there are more in my city who
have some experience with it and have some measure of control over it.
I have control of my kundalini (it was raised via deep meditation), I raise it when I want, control the intensity, send it where I want via
AYP practices. No one person has a lock on this, the birthright of everyone.
But bliss and energy control gets old, like all experiences. You will naturally move beyond it into silence and intuitive knowledge of knowing you are that which you seek.
That’s a red flag for a thoughtful, informed consumer of yogic techniques, alwayson2. I have been in the presence of 2 people
who raised kundalini and I’m sure there are more in my city who
have some experience with it and have some measure of control over it.
I have control of my kundalini (it was raised via deep meditation), I raise it when I want, control the intensity, send it where I want via
AYP practices. No one person has a lock on this, the birthright of everyone.
But bliss and energy control gets old, like all experiences. You will naturally move beyond it into silence and intuitive knowledge of knowing you are that which you seek.
Thats all well and good, but you did not define exactly what you mean by kundalini.
Hi Alwayson,
There are different grades and degress of “kundalini awakening” and as Yogani said it is an idealized path or described as such; that’s to say it might be really dramatic for one person or it may occur over as ongoing evolution or transfromation over many months and typically years for some.
A “full blown” kundalini awakening is when the crown opens and subsequent maturation occurs.In AYP this occurs indirectly through the third-eye via root-to-brow spinal breathing and/or other associated methods, i.e perhaps even DM alone.A sushumna or spiritual awakening has to occur for the latent energy potential force to rise from the base upwards and for this to be permanent , and i hope this is’nt too controversial here, sufficient purification and like-wise balance of ida & pingala has to ccur. Indeed sufficent purification and long-term balance of ida & pingala will go hand in hand for a safe and permament K. awakening.
When i started sadhana i got a temporary one and using very powerful tehniques over too short time-scales i woke up sushumna but neither of these pre-requisites had been adequately fulfilled.It retreated down sushumna i believe but then i ended up with an over-active pingala ( and a dormant ida).These are like polar charges that would do well to be sufficiently balanced over a period of time.
A host of pranayamas and meditation will likely do it also as well as spinal breathing and/or deep meditation per AYP approach as you refine your technique(s) and practice regularly.
It happens best if you don’t chase afer it. Be good,cultivate a good mind, be patient and practice regularly and don’t chase after it and it will be a reality for you.No forcing or rushing.It will open in it’s own time with regular concerted sadhana.
I had problems wading through tha PDF you provided but let’s look at the intro…
The fact he has’nt practiced any formal yoga makes me sceptical or suspicious that he lacks credibility for me. If he interest in kundalini why has he not explored this?
Then he says in next paragraph he has woken kundalini(?)- is he the only one then i wonder?
I am stil not clear on what method or approach he employed.It sound a tad wishy-washy on first glance.He said he just did it.That is possible but for me since kundalini is in the yogic terminology he does not seem a credible authority to me. The statement you provided sounds categorically & factually untrue to me- that there is only one person.
I would’nt get too bogged down in the meaning of words. But kundalini is the divine intellgence that moves and directs prana through the nadi-networks as they get purified (as this process or event matures the crown opens properly) and like prana it can be thought of, i.e the word, as one expression of the full range of consciousness like K-Man put it.
You want to pursue proven techniques or approaches so it is a reality rather than fixate too much on third-person accounts.Understanding is experience-based gained through regular sadhana.
I i had a few Q’s for you they might be
- If you are interested bearing in mind that is is just one side of the enlightenment equation in AYP that is- If you have a formal practice ,what is it?
- What was Robert Bruce’s method do you think?
If you practice any proven path or set of techniques regularly and integrate it in the living, your living, then you will realise these things either way.But as AYP says it kundalini awakening or ecstatic conductivity as it’s called here is a non-essential component to enlightenment. It often happens here in AYP as a result of cultivation of the witness state but does’nt necessarily have to, i.e as a by-product including great health & vitality etc.Because of this cultivation of the wtiness state there is a good chance it probably happens more naturally also, i.e that’s to say without forcing and and the risks that tend to go with that.
After Kundalin is permanently awoken and continues to mature it is always a process of ongoing evolution i believe or so i am told after that…
Some people prob. manage to awaken kundalini with some prior obstructions without some knowledge of technical dynamics at play and you may not need to know about them though it would be in the interest of the aspirant or advisable even to have a little bit of knowledge.
There must be many thousands and it’s available to anyone if they are so inclined and put in regular i.e daily sadhana.
You raise some interesting points but they are mind-evaultions which can be a distraction to committed sadhana.You remind me a bit of Gumpi in that respect.lol.There’s a place for healthy scepticism but it has to be met with practice, i.e experience rather than relying on third-hand acounts.AYP is good for that.Then it’s no longer pie-in-the sky and a reality for anyone that wants to bother or feels inclined to find out.You can find out whatever you want to find out if you put in the effort. Which then begs a Q- do you have practices and do you feel like briefly sharing them here?Is it traditional yoga for e.g or ordinary self-inquiry or simply non-doing with awareness ,buddhist sadhana ,modified AYP ,full AYP,augmented AYP or some kind of Fusion or what?
Try to be good( and kundalini will rise some and will continue to rise as you continue to be good and so on),commit yourself to sustained sadhana with self-pacing and it will come.
Hi Alwayson,
I have’nt bothered to read that PDF you provided, i.e al 91 pages… But I’m not realy sure what the jist of it is about.
There’s a bit of information in the PDF.
He has also talked about what the method is elsewhere.
Its very similar to what I posted here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8907
You really have to be fluent in his standard techniques.
There’s a bit of information in the PDF.
He has also talked about what the method is elsewhere.
Its very similar to what I posted here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8907
You really have to be fluent in his standard techniques.
Hey Alwayson, as others have stated, there are people on this forum that have "raised kundalini." so there should be no question that this guy Robert Bruce is not the only person in the world with "raised kundalini." the reason i put that term in quotes is because you are correct that the term is thrown around pretty loosely by a variety of people. i don't know that we can really categorize this type of thing accurately with our current knowledge. as others have said, there are a variety of spiritual experiences and everyone has there own thing.
Yes I am with you on this.
My momma can raise her kundalini higher than all of you.
Hi Alwayson,
I don’t doubt that Robert has had many experiences, everyone with awakened kundalini does. I was simply explaining what the experience was which Robert described and referred to as a “real kundalini awakening” in the PDF that you linked to.
It is quite common for people to say “this is what happened to me, so this is what a real awakening is”. It just causes a lot of confusion. It is much more usefull to read hundreds of accounts of k awakenings, and then you can begin to understand what it is all about and what is happening.
Much more scientific, no?
Ultimataely kundalini is: “all the phases of energetic transformation of a person from the human to the divine state”.
How it occurs is different for everyone, but the end state is always the same: outpouring divine love.
All the best
Christi
I’m glad we could agree on something, alwayson!
With respect to you, I think you should consider that kundalini is a poorly defined concept in modern culture.
Christi has stated, [quote]
"Ultimataely kundalini is: “all the phases of energetic transformation of a person from the human to the divine state”.
[/quote]
So if you can accept this, then there is no longer a disagreement I think.
Now, I understand that you probably intend to say that a completed, or fully realized kundalini is a rare thing.
I totally agree. There is a huge difference between a one time deal and a permanent state of active k. No question about that; these experiences are worlds apart. Everyone has the potential for some k, but then again the mystic life is given to only a few (and thank god because it’s not something most people would want).
Also consider, is there really such a thing as a “fully raised kundalini?” I think it’s probably a never ending expansion. In the future we will certainly have the empirical knowledge to more accurately categorize the different stages and types of k. For now, we can only wonder, and accept that no one has the perfect answer (and if they say they do, be assured that they don’t!)
You related to Trevor Hall?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHVpeeHrFjc
Hi Alwayson,
Question: "What is gained by having the crown chakra opened during and after
Kundalini raising? What can one do with an opened crown chakra that they
normally can’t do when it is closed, or less opened?
Robert Bruce: I’m not really sure about this as I’ve not experienced this.
~Robert Bruce, Posts On Kundalini, p.84
… with all due respect, Alwayson, learning about raising kundalini from someone who has not experienced even a temporary opening of their crown chakra is like learning about tantric sex from someone who has never had sex.
Liberation, viewed through the chakra model, involves the permanent raising of kundalini, and the permanent opening of the crown chakra.
At least a few of us here have done this.
Apparently Robert Bruce has not.
He’s teaching from a limited level, and that’s okay - as long as both he and his readers/students know this. Otherwise, confusion and misdirection could result.
He may be able to help someone develop certain psychic capabilities, but, not being awake - he can’t help anyone awaken.
I’d strongly recommend awakening first, and then pursuing whatever interests you.
If you’re sincere about awakening, I don’t know a better place to start than right here.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
[quote=“alwayson2”]
Hi Alwayson,
I’ve had very similar experiences to that, but kundalini raising is not defined by the experience; it’s defined by the resulting permanent expansion of consciousness.
AYP doesn’t focus on kundalini raising experiences, but rather, on facilitating the permanent raising/expansion of kundalini, as an aspect of (and metaphor for) opening into the reality of wholeness, of liberation; of enlightenment.
If you’d give AYP a solid shot, I truly feel you’ll be amazed, within a matter of months, at how superior it is to Robert Bruce’s approach.
And please note - that’s not a generic “our way is better” statement.
It’s based on the fact that the realm of consciousness and energy that Robert Bruce addresses, and has experience in, is well less than half of the full range of consciousness/awareness that AYP addresses – a range that some of us here have years of experience in, and which we are living on an ongoing basis.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
I have a constantly raised Kundalini all the way up to crown chakra and including my feet and hands (my entire physical body is full of energy except for my hairs), I cannot turn it off, she is with me all the time, I never done Yoga or meditation in my entire life and I was never religious in any way whatsoever (I believe you dont have to believe in God to have Kundalini, either everything is God or nothing is God, either way it is the truth). I hear voices coming from my chakras and I can communicate with them quite effectively they sound like bees, birds, snakes and a cat purring near my genital region, I am spending a lot of time trying to decipher their language and at this moment in time I can get simple “yes or no” answers and know their reactions to good or bad thoughts.
I have had telepathic experiences, done telekenises, I am able to Astral Project/OBE, Remote Viewing, I have even had a mass telepathic experience where I was hearing millions of voices at the same time, some of them human, most of them sounded alien (imagine if a tree had a voice, thats is what it reminded me off, very natural), I called this phenomenom Anima Mundi (Living Earth) or Great Mother. I have also travelled to my cellular level in my body, looks exactly as seeing my body through a microscope.
By the way it is impossible to have ommniscience while in a human body, there are not enough neurons in the brain to store an infinite ammount of information. You can only do that via your spirit body, I had a glimpse of it while I had my mass telepathy experience. But integrating that experience when you come back is incredibly hard (maybe not impossible but you will deffinetly be locked up in a psychiatric ward) and I went through years of psychosis/schizophrenia after that experience. Anyone who thinks they are ommniscient are ingorant of the fact that the universe is infite and just because you have seen 1 more piece of the great puzzle does not mean you see the entire picture. If you knew the truth you would know the universe is greater than all the galaxies put together, they are not even 1% of the picture.
In my honest opinion, EVERYONE HAS KUNDALINI, they are just not aware of it, to prove this I will tell you another experience, I was looking at my best friend one day and he turned black, and I saw orbs of glowing colour all the way up his spine (Chakras?). He has never told me anything about the chakras or kundalini, and as far as I know he is not aware of them.
By the way, Ommiscience and Free will are mutually exclusive, if you were Omniscient you would lose free will since if you know everything that is going to happen the choice has already been made, that is the reason I believe you cannot have ommniscience while being Human, you can only do that by escaping from Samsara (The cycle of life, sickness, death and rebirth as described by the buddhists.)and rejoin the source of all things.