Yes, thanks so much for taking the time to share this, Frank. As I read, it occurred to me more than once that you’re ‘John’, but too humble to tell it in the first person. 
Doesn’t matter - it’s a powerful story either way.
i would speculate that a person in that state would have all siddhis available to them, but would lose all desire to use them.
did he say anything about that?
Hi Frank,
Thanks for sharing this story about John and this thread. I am very curious about his inner energy development. In other words, did he come by this experience without ever doing any pranayama or did he just do meditation or perhaps neither?
What I am unclear about is if it is possible to reach this state of awareness without the sushumna being purified to at least the extent where there is flow of inner energies etc. I find that none of the non-dualists that I have read, like Sailor Bob, Tolle etc., talk about the role of this in their present state of awareness or along the path they took in getting there.
Anthem11
Thanks Frank,
To clarify, I was wondering if he is aware of the inner energies and how they evolved along with his evolving awareness rather than about his prior practices.
thanks
A
Frank it is so strange… when I hear him talk… I can feel what he is feeling… I can almost see why he says “Sorry I cant put this more clearly. Its really something you have to experience, not “understand” it.” … it feels like I have felt this before… and I know I have not… its like taking a journey… I have taken before… and yet I know I have not…
Thank you Frank for sharing this with us… do keep going…
Pranams to you and John…
-Shweta.
Its awsome wonderful
Keep us informed please.
Wolfgang
Frank,
I didn’t get time to read the post till now, but thanks for bringing it to us. It sounds like John has had a very deep experience of the nondual.
Ether said:
i would speculate that a person in that state would have all siddhis available to them, but would lose all desire to use them.
did he say anything about that?
I’m curious too, but more from the point of view of skepticism.
John (so far anyway) seems to be free of tendencies to self-mythologize, which means he’ll share with you totally honestly and give you straight answers, which is wonderful. I hope his innocence doesn’t get spoiled, like it does for many! If he starts to get the impression that he is a very special person because this has happened to him, that could spoil it all, so be careful!! 
Keep us posted.
-D
As I read John’s words last night, I felt a thick, dense energy in my body which settled in for a while - maybe 10 minutes or so - and then went away. I’ve felt this before, during meditation, but never while I was engaged in an activity. I went back and read it this morning, and it happened again, altho less pronounced.
I’m embarrassed to write the above and dread the repercussions, but Shanti talked me into it. 
Please, don’t anyone tell me to get over my bad self and start repeating iamiamiamiam. . . . . I recognize that it was just an experience; that I’ll get no brownie points. What I do find interesting is that John’s experience, twice removed and watered down, has such a profound impact on so many of us. There’s a hush around it, like this is something holy, or real, that we all understand to be It. That.
Thanks, Frank. And Shanti.
Hey Meg… I could feel - in your words - what you are talking about… don’t worry… you are not crazy… and if some tells you otherwise… please direct them to me 
by the way, it is good to “iamiamiamiam”…
Frank I had one more question for you…
I found it very strange that John said…
“John’s note to me, ‘It is so wonderful to find someone who can appreciate it. Most people around me would only think that I was going crazy.’”
Could some one at that level actually need someone to understand him… and still be worried about being called crazy…
Maybe what David said is right… he is like a child… “I hope his innocence doesn’t get spoiled, like it does for many!”
Shanti said:
>> Could some one at that level actually need someone to understand him… and still be worried about being called crazy…
Maybe what David said is right… he is like a child… “I hope his innocence doesn’t get spoiled, like it does for many!”
We’re almost always operating on several levels at once, and a person in or at a transition only moreso. There is certainly some of his ordinary mind left, or he wouldn’t have taken up the computer-related job, which was probably a great idea. From the level of THAT he certainly does not mind being considered crazy in the way we normally might – the experience would be analagous to seeing thousands of puppets (people) being moved by a single puppeteer, the puppets saying ‘You are crazy to think we are being moved by one puppeteer!’.
Time will tell how this experience integrates with him.
What I am worried about is that in one way or another, he will be told that he is very special as a person to be having this experience. What a trap! An invitation back into the prison of Maya, that very few can resist…
It’s part of the Indian way to mythologize almost any realizer beyond all reality and reason (in my opinion), and this helps to spring the trap. Think about whether what I said is true, and if so, please, please don’t spring the trap on him!
You also might want to warn him of the trap, if he is not wary enough yet…
Hari Om
Hello Shweta,David.Meg, Shanti.
Yes, this seems to be a general experience. John’s description has profundly impacted me also…the innocence, yet the genuine-ness resinates with me. I get what he says w/o stuggle or compromise.
David’s assessment of remains of other states - there is a name for this called lesh-avida, or the remains of ignorance. My teacher used the analogy of a butter ball in ones hands. When its placed down, your hands still has this film, the remains. Like that, there is the remains of ignorance, otherwise one would be completely absorbed into the Absolute ( as I understand it).
re: Siddhi’s - I think that for John, it is of no interest. Kinda like us all grown up, we leave our G.I Joes and Barbi dolls for others. I have not brought this up as my questions have been more about what the Upanishads say of this level of existence and asking John if he concurs. A delightful way to learn - read, question, listen, learn.
PART VI
I asked John,
The rishi’s say our bodies ( and this earth, rock, liquid, gas, space, leaf, animal, vegetable or mineral) is condensed consciousness (same as they say in quantum physics). And most of everything is really space ( my favorite element, akasha) from the atomic to the universal.
“I like the “condensed consciousness” concept. But then again, in THERE even appropriate, logical words and concepts are seeing as merely utterations without content. THAT is so powerful that renders all thinking as illusory. I can say that we live inmerse in a cloud of thinking that DOESNT ALLOW US TO SEE.”
I continued,
They ( scientists) even wonder how all this ( matter) stays together , cause there is so much space between atoms. This is where they talk of the various forces in physics that I am not knowledgably of, that bind this matter together. That said, we are miniature HIMs. “Him” is like that sound Hreem - all encompassing.
“That sounds beautiful. I wont say its worthless (nor other concepts or ideas) but that its empty if you are THERE.”
I continue,
Its like another word Hamsa. A name for a Swan - they give HIM this
name , as one of beauty; As the swan also floats on the water ( life, existence) without getting wet ( or pulled into this existence) or without the possibility of any blemish. Just as your state , experiencing The ‘Witness’ from within and all ‘live’ was happening outside of you.
“Mm, I would say that “life” was an idea, “outide” was an idea. What is left is THAT. The very same THAT that you are experiencing right now, but without all those words and concepts around.”
I pose a different apporach, same concept:
When one gets established in the experience you had, then one is
untouched by actions, like the swan floating on top of the water. He is on top of the relative field of life, yet he gets ‘unwet’ from the waters/turbulence below. Was this the experience?
“Yes. In my words is not because you are unwet, but because there is no YOU. How could you be untouched if you never existed in the first place? If anything, THAT ceases to identificate itself with experiences, in that sense is not touched by them.”
Some closing considerations I posed:
Your actions in this state, when fully matured are HIS actions ( over time you are not bound action-reaction - Your experience, once stable, ‘changes the rules’ or really goes to another level of rule making - Karmic actions do not bind you, no vasanas ( or impressions that go from life to life) become like a roasted seed, it cannot sprout new actions ( as the rishi’s say); You become a free-agent of the universe. This is the delightful part of why I pursue this path…non binding actions, no return to this plane of existence, and the ability to do the work of the cosmos; very attractive to me - I must of touched this desire before somehow.
“Those are happy feelings/ideas. :)”
pranams, more later.
agnir satyam rtam brhat Frank in San-Diego
Wow…
Wow Wow…
Frank, your questions were awesome too…
Hello Frank . John’s revelation of THAT through you is beautiful. I thank you both. Very inspiring!
I think the events of sharing of this nature reflect a readiness in our lives to merge with THAT. As you suggested, our runways are being prepared. Be it life-times of awakening, His/Her Divine Grace, or maybe simply THAT, NOW seems to me to be the moment THAT is happening to release us in the freedom of THAT. May IT be so. Peace, alan
P.S. methinks siddhis are no thing to be had
Hari Om
Hello/Namaskar Visphulinga ( this means “spark”; of what? the Divine)
I left this snippet out from my last post.
PART VII
… do you meditate?
“Nope. I used to. Constantly, I tried to meditate during every waken moment. I tried to meditate even in dreams (Im a lucid dreamer). I tried to meditate meditating. I would say that the main reason I become aware is because I have learned to focus my consciousness so intensely in the Here and Now.”
I then closed this conversation out with a quote.
I leave you with one of his ( as we were discussing Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj] I am sure you have read ( and is dear to me):
To know the world you forget the SELF, to know the SELF you forget the world.
[John is quite aware of the author here - this is from I AM THAT]
“Thank you for the quote. I value Nisargadatta more than any other teacher. He doesn’t give space to concepts or ideas, he points directly to THAT all the time.”
“Thank you also for allowing to express/remember what is like to be/see THAT.”
‘finite things do not contain happiness’ - rishi Sanatkumara
pranams,
agnir satyam rtam brhat Frank in San-Diego
Hari Om
Hello Jim
Wanted to answer your question.
I discuss Vednanta with several other folks, groups, and forums.
with one group the following occured:
… I was fortunate to have conversations with John w/o ever talking of THAT , till a conversation came up on states of consciousness of waking , dreaming and sleeping. The conversation transitioned to what people knew of what happens in deep sleep. now, many ‘knew’ what others have said - by books, scriptures, and their pundits and guru’s, yet none ‘knew’ from direct experience till John spoke up and then every thing changed. So begins my conversation with someone that experienced ‘That’.
Hope this helps… more as the conversation matures.
agnir satyam rtam brhat Frank in San-Diego
Could you ask him if he felt sexuality in the THAT state ?
So he meditated a lot BEFORE his awakening experience?
The same is true of UG Krishnamurti (not J. Krishnamurti). At a certain point then, UG went through a major transition ‘spontaneously’, and concluded, quite dubiously I think, that all the years of meditation played no part in causing that transition.
Hari Om
Hello David/Wolfgang,
Interesting point David. I am in a conversation with John about spontaneous vs. gradual realization e.g. sadyo-mukti or an immediate experience of liberation ( of THAT). Other practices lead to krama-mukti or gradual or progressive liberation… I am seeing who/if and what other meditatative considerations influenced his experience and what % of his meditations contributed to this experience. I am awaiting a response.
Wolfgang, re: your question on sexual tendency in THAT - I can with a high degree of confidence suggest John’s answer…
“They were NO OTHERS, there were no objects and most importantly no subject at all. You no longer exist, and what is left is not the world either. Its impossible for somebody else to be aware, because YOU ARE AWARENESS”
I believe sexual urges are of the body, and of the 3 gunas ( rago-guna which stimulates passion). Since he was not influnced by this, as there are no gunas to create passion/urge in THAT, he would most likely just say no, none.
Now, if he said ‘yes’ there is that sexual urge, he then would say how would I act on it? If every thing is THAT, and I am THAT, then who possibly can I engage in a physical relationship with? There are no others, he continues to remind me.
Hope this helps.
agnir satyam rtam brhat Frank in San-Diego
I’m enjoying this. Thank you Frank.
Hi Frank,
if I feel sexual extasy, are there OTHERS ?
If I am alone (without a partner) and I feel
sexual extasy, am I really alone ?