Hi Cloud,
Yes.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - But seriously … - as you may know, I am an enthusiastic student of both Adya and Yogani - and just did a post today (my fairly lengthy one, dated today, in this thread:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1081 ) - which addresses a good portion of your question, I feel. Please check it out - I hope it helps!
And, I do apologize, but have no time now - though may comment a bit more, later.
In general, I’d say:
Adya has mentioned that purification does occur, even “sitting and facing a wall” as they do in Zen - and has specifically referenced vision, kundalini experiences - and several other things which are commonly cited by yogic sadhakas.
Point Being: Neurophysiologically and spiritually, it’s very likely that we’ll all experience all of it - and that our systems / bodies (physical and subtle) will pass through an ultra-similar evolution.
I personally find that AYP practices help immensely, primarily on a physical and energetic level (as well as “prepping” my body-mind to be able to experience more energy / ecstasy / silence) – as do Adya’s, from an “awareness of mental conditioning and misperceptions” standpoint — and both Yogani’s teachings, and Adya’s, have very helpful cross-over, related to each of these things (mentioned in this paragraph).
Ultimately, as Adya says - practices may have nothing to do with the experience of enlightenment … but as far as getting TO enlightenment – it is my experience that we can do ourselves a vast amount of favors, and have an infinitely more comfortable ride … via systems like AYP - while still remembering that ultimately, being IN Enlightenment is simply experiencing and realizing our true nature - and that Realization can never occur anywhere but here, or any time other than Now - so Enlightenment is ultimately nothing more than the dissolution of misperception - all misperception - and can be experienced by anyone, at any time (though this is clearly very, very rare to experience, without significant preparation and purification) - and if there is major awakening / enlightenment, and then the purification is “back-filled” - things will likely be quite uncomfortable for a while, on a “human level”.
So, I find that AYP is extremely helpful and enjoyable - as are Adya’s teachings – for all of the above reasons.
The combination of the two helps the journey to be just about as smooth and enjoyable as possible - while still allowing for significant progress - in my happy experience.
Hope that helps!
I came to know about Adyashanti couple of months before. From what little that I have read and listened, I should say that I am positively impressed with his teachings. His teachings are none less than the teachings of the other great enlightened masters. A must read for the people in the path of enlightenment.
Another book/teaching that caught my attention in recent times and made me spell bound was the title “I am That” by Nisargadatta Maharaj. Make sure to check out the reviews of this book on Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0893860220/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/105-3333229-3150826?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books).
Well,I think this is pretty much the perspective Im taking Kirtanman.
It just seems to make sense to me that someone who has deliberately pursued purification,even though it was done so unavoidably from an initially “unenlightened” perspective,will be more inclined to embrace & flow with the post-personal enlightenment adaptions.Even though it will going into that territory from a now Enlightened perspective,its still a territory that they have ‘accepted’ allready on a very deep level due to their previous purification practice.
I suppose thats what Im trying to get at.While guranteeing nothing,& possibly becoming an egoic obsession (as per 'spiritual materialism),surely purification practices would make the individual more ‘at home’ ,or more inclined to acknowledge,that realm of experience post enlightenment?
So Im thinking that purification somehow ‘disposes’ you towards the reconciliation of all your material that Enlightenment will eventually require of you.So the phase of coming back ‘down to earth’ would then hopefully flow more smoothly & directly.Having first Woken Up out of the personal trance,& revelled in that new freedom,one would then Wake Back Down into the World,the ‘real’ world this time,unencumbered & undistorted by our egotistical demands on it.
So purification helps us to ‘follow through’ from first Waking Up to Waking Down back into the world.Yeah?
Regards,Cloud
Detailed info on Adya’s life in his own words (Q&A format). Not sure if it is authentic. Kirtanman should be able to tell that 
http://www.wheniawoke.com/Sages/Adyashanti.html
Cheers
Hi Cloud,
Sorry for not responding sooner; I’ve been in the midst of major move, and related challenges.
Good comments, and in essence, I agree with you.
I think Adya’s emphasis regarding the fact that practices aren’t directly connected with being enlightened, stems from the vast compassion which attends true enlightenment – he just doesn’t want to see any sadhakas tripped up for the rest of a lifetime (or several) by thinking that any one system is “it”, or that there’s anything to do, to realize enlightenment.
Being a yogic sadhaka, I had a hard time with this myself - but I knew I felt a very authentic resonance with both Adya and AYP … and just “kept on keeping on” with both sets of teachings … and then recently, the fog cleared and I “got” it (and surprise, surprise - Adya just happened to make the most clear public statements I have yet heard him make on this topic, right around that time).
He said (few weeks back) - “Essentially, what I’ve been saying is that what gets you to the doorway, has nothing to do with what’s on the other side of the doorway … ‘all baggage must be checked’ … practices may offer some assistance in getting enlightened - but they don’t have a whole lot to do with being enlightened.”
And, as he has tongue-in-cheekily said before, “If all spiritual systems worked anywhere near as well as they claimed, we’d be up to our asses in enlightened people!”
He recently offered the key to that one, too:
“It’s a quality I would call earnestness … you really want the Truth … more than anything … as Arvis (Justi, one of Adya’s two teachers) used to say, ‘Only the phonies don’t get enlightened’”
You may have heard this idea mentioned elsewhere … for instance, near the very beginning of the AYP Lessons … Yogani just uses the original term … “Bhakti”.
Part of the basis for my hypothesis (that Adya emphasizes that realization of who we really are isn’t based on practices) is that Adya is far from alone in being very emphatic about this; Advaitins ranging from the modern (Nisargadatta, Ramana) to the ancient (Patanjali) - and certainly a whole host of yogic / Buddhist teachers … say the same thing.
The Yoga Sutras make a major point of describing the Prakriti Layas - yogis so advanced that they literally become God to their own Universe permeating All with their God consciousness - forming worlds, creating life, and reveling in the unspeakable ecstatic bliss thereof …
… and then whacks the reader / listener “upside the head” with the fact that these yo-yos are the biggest losers in all of yogadom, because they’ve managed to miss the entire point … and are still identified with the illusion - that which is transient - even if it’s an entire Universe … and can therefore not hope to be Realized for many eonic cycles. Whether or not this is literally true - it’s a powerful story … and one that helps us realize the vast importance of Bhakti - and having a sincere heart that wants Truth - and not any “abilities”, or cool “powers”.
And don’t get me wrong; I enjoy exotic scenery as much as the next guy or gal … truly … there’s some awesome stuff “in there” – but I’ve learned to simply enjoy, “ooh and ahh” (etc. ETC. etc. 
) - as applicable … and keep right on goin’ … because for me, it IS about Reality – gotta have it, period.
It’s not that nothing else will suffice — nothing else even freakin’ matters.
Adya says that out of all the aspects of what helped enlightenment to be realized in that body-mind, the one thing for which he is most grateful … is that at several key points “along the way”, where many sadhakas (in Adya’s words) - “plant their flag in the ground”, and say “this is it - this is enlightenment!” … there was this “little voice” which said … “this isn’t it … keep on going”.
I would agree - and fully credit bhakti / earnestness as the source of the voice.
If you want it sincerely, Life won’t let you go wrong … there may be some major bumps … but you’ll definitely Be Home (please note that I did not say “be in your home”. )
And so … I feel it’s helpful to remember, the from the perspective of full enlightenment, it’s SO clear that ALL it has to do with is realizing Who We Are … and not how we “got” anywhere, or what our vehicle happened to be … they even have a name for this - “absent-minded mountain climber” (you ask the teacher or guru how they got to the mountaintop, and they say, “I dunno — just Realize Your True Nature”. You then supress the urge to beat them about the head and shoulders with their own arms … and try to re-phrase the question … )
And yes … as far as “waking back down” - I agree – but would clarify - BIG “waking back down” would be what the Buddhists call Embodiment … which is actually the very final stage of Enlightenment (integrating the FULL and final Realization into everyday human life - and carrying the highest Samadhi into every moment).
It sounds like what you’re referring to is the multiple "waking back down"s, which occur for most of us, after an initial awakening, or series of then … but before “full Enlightenment” – which I’m using in the most common sense that I know, which is basically: Awakening is temporary, Enlightenment is permanent.
It’s very common to have anywhere between a few years and a few decades between awakening and enlightenment … and for me, having AYP in comparison to other yoga systems is like being on a private Lear Jet, in comparison to flying steerage (er, I mean “coach”) on an old 727 with dirty seats, coughing people and screaming kids - and stale peanuts - and the one drink that really sounded good, they just ran out of - “ditto” the meal you were going to order …
AYP compared to other non-yogic practices systems paths, etc. (i.e. imagine trying to get through all this without mantric meditation, without spinal breathing, without Tantra, without Samyama, without knowing about Kechari, Sambhavi, or Mulabandha … NoooOOOOooOOOOooo thank you!! ) … is like riding in a private Lear Jet, coast to coast, compared to … say … driving a ‘99 Toyota Camry across crowded Interstates with too much construction and slow RVs and inclement weather and motels that are aggressive about checkout times, and who have free but patchy WiFi service, and are overpriced … and you get lost … on the Insterstate mind you … two freakin’ days in a ROW, in Arkansas and Mississippi, no less … and you get a weird coolant smell inside the car, but can’t find anything wrong … and you’re just about sure you’ll blow a head gasket (you, not the car …) if you see one more triple-digit mileage sign to anywhere …
… Aum, Aum, Aum … Shanti, Shanti, ShantiH …
… it’s okay, it’s just an example, Kirtanman … it’s all over … you’ve been in your new state for almost a week … here, have a sip of Swayt Tay (regional drink, somewhat akin to the Iced Tea served in Western states …).
… only “Swayt” (like Sweet, but infinitely more so …)
Moral of the Story:
Yay, AYP.
Yay, Adya.
Yay, Not-Moving.
And, actually … the analogy carries … as much as a Lear Jet would have made for a more pleasant trip experience … now that I’m here, HOW I got here doesn’t much matter … I’m here.
So it goes with practices>Enlightenment.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
Hi Ajna,
Yup - I can vouch for the info - it’s for real.
I slogged through the PDF document (50 pages or so) when I first learned of Adya (2003) - it’s a weird read, because it’s a literal tape transcript … but it’s for real (I may even read it again … part of it … anyway).
The poem linked on the main page is one of Adya’s - and is published in “My Secret is Silence” (interesting title, yes? From a guy whose name translates as “primordial peace” … maybe he’s trying to tell us something … )
The pic is Adya from at least ten years ago … “Adya as a puppy”.
(He’s my age … 45 … though he’s a few months younger … that was part of what locked me onto him, initially … “Dude’s younger than me … and clearly enlightened … I think I should listen … and I think I should get on with it … NOW”
(I did … and it’s been beyond amazing … it all hits a snowball-type point, at a certain point — different for each of us, I imagine … but I now experience things daily, that I couldn’t even conceive of, a year ago … and FAR more important than any of the “cool stuff” is the unspeakable peace and cessation of desire … it’s like … I didn’t know they meant THIS much … I didn’t know they COULD mean this much …!)
At first, I thought you said something like, “I’m not sure if Adya is authentic … but Kirtanman should know …”
I’m not sure either … but I’ll tell you this … if some “rogue Deva” (you know the type … shiny, .44 magnum, jittery ) descended from the heavens (or wherever rogues Devas hang out … ) and said, “Is Adyashanti enlightened and authentic - yes or no - wrong answer - ‘Boom’ goes your head!”
I’d say “Yes”, without thinking, blinking, pausing … or stuttering.
And please note … that’s not any kind of a “blind faith” thing … it’s a tangibility / power / depth - of experience thing.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
Yes, you are right, i meant the authenticity of the pdf (as it was in a site different than Adya’s home site). Your posts are most informative and enjoyable as always. Thanks.
Cheers
Ajna,
Thanks for that link.Ive downloaded the thing & now am in the process of reading it
Kirtanman,
Thankyou VERY much for taking the time on such a substantial reply.You are one thourogh individual !Im glad you dont think Im too far off in my take on all this.It does concern me that all my impressions are “2nd-hand” (ie,books & cd’s),but Adya is apparently coming to Australia later this year.so Im sure THAT will be interesting.
Regards,Cloud.
There are Adyashanti groups that get together around the country, and I attended one last night. I was glad to have had the information from this thread, and particularly thankful for your very open sharing here, Brett. I’m an Adya fan, and am reaping the riches of his teachings. But I wonder about the emphasis on awakening, and if there’s adequate support for overload situations like the one described here. There were quite a few people there last night who go to his retreats regularly, and when I asked if there were many ‘overload’ situations, where a person was receiving too much too fast, it was generally agreed that when this happens, it is due to the person’s resistance to awakening. In other words, if the person simply releases their ego involvement, there would be no problems. I find this problematic, and somewhat irresponsible, if this is truly the position taken on the retreats. But I realize that this response was not necessarily the official stance of Adyashanti and his team.
An emphasis on awakening can be misleading and dangerous. I have a new appreciation for the methodical, self-paced approach that Yogani has laid out. Given the choice, I’d rather be grounded than enlightened.
Actually Meg,your point about excessive emphasis on awakening is quite timely for me.
It was actually listening to one of Adyas cd’s that helped relieve me of the craving for Enlightenment.I came away from it with the feeling that there is no need to obsess about awakening,or to try & manufacture a moral demand for it.Any real awakening would be inspired by a naturally arising desire for the nondual,a kind of sublime “curiosity”,that occurs on its own unpredictable timetable.
You cant force the issue.Either it arises in you as a spontaneous ‘call’,a truly organic Bhakti,or it doesnt.No worry either way.It is not ‘necessary’ that you be pursuing a Direct Path.The only ‘necessity’ is to act with integrity.So be attentive to where you are,but dont Push the River.
Direct Path is not ‘right’,but it may be the only satisfactory option for a certain person in a certain situation.For another person ,it may be actually irrelevant!!
So the call to the nondual arises from the mysterious,unpredictable Dao,not the egos definitions of ‘correct’ spiritual timetables.If your Direct Path motivations are in fact negative ( eg;seeking permanent immunity from the feelings of pain or loss),you wont be able to sustain a real practice.Life doesnt have to be ‘cured’,just embraced.
Now I should point out that this is MY response to Adya.This is what hes inspired in me.But I dont think Im distorting him TOO much.Its just that he makes it a question of passion,of positive motivation,that cant be dictated to anyone.He doesnt seem to say “You MUST go via some kind of Direct Path”,only “If you REALLY want Direct Path,here is my approach”.
Now whether or not there is the danger of either Adya,or one of his perhaps overly enthusiastic students,pushing Awakening & making it into another “Thou Shalt”,I lack the experience to say.But its good that youve raised this,because it probably will/has inadvertantly happened at some point,to some degree,out of sheer human fallibility.
It is naturally something to watch for ( without getting paranoid),simply as an intelligent caution.But given what Ive heard & read of Adya sofar,I would be surprised if it ever became ‘policy’.If it does/has happened,I would imagine Adya would have the integrity to acknowledge it directly.
So,ironically,Adyas Direct Path teachings have relaxed my obsessions with Direct paths.I no longer feel it as a grim obligation to Awaken,but rather as a development that will come in its own time,as long as I continue to truly LIVE my life now,taking whatever path ( as long as its really a path )seems productive.To this end,I am now investigating Yoganis approach.And it is Adyas perspective that has helped me relax into this.
Regards,Cloud.
Hi Cloud
I really like your take on this, it reads to me like a very balanced approach.
It has helped me put some perspective on what I have been hearing about Adyashanti and Tolle in regard to practices.
Louis
Thankyou Louis,thats kind of you to say so.
I think theres always the question of motivation,genuine Bhakti or fearful compulsion.Which is your main motivation at any given time? I dont think a practice can last if mere compulsion,no matter how prettified,is the only thing that drives it.
I think real Bhakti springs from a glorious,enthusiastic response to the mystery & challenge of life,including lifes pain as well as beauty.Its an immense YES to life.Its not that desperation for immunity,for numbness,that can so often masqurade as spirituality.
So I get into this stuff as an investigation,an eager embrace,instead of as a means to remedy some dread spiritual ill,some ‘worthlessness’,& I have faith that the Direct Path will arise in me in its own good time.No need to spoil it all with panic.
Thats not to say fear-based motivations,the desire to protect a perceived ‘self’ from “problem x” (sin,death,bad karma,loss,shame…whatever) dont also figure in my motivations.But as long as the Creative response outweighs the Fearful,I figure Im still wandering about somewhere on the Path .I really dont think God wants to hurt me
This is all pretty general,and Im NOT advocating some careless crytals-&-unicorns trip,but do you see what Im getting at?
Regards,Cloud
Cloud - Your post has further helped me to put this ‘awakening’ business in perspective. Adya is giving us the astonishing message that awakening is something that happens here and now, rather than elsewhere and later. He drives home the point that it is our birthright to awaken into the moment, and that moment is NOW, and the only thing standing in the way is our residual embodiment of ego. Which is probably correct, but that may be a GOOD thing. The ego, with all of its shortcomings, may sometimes shield us from that which it knows will burn us out; namely, too much too fast. I mean, think about it - if all is THAT, and THAT is all, then THAT includes ego. Indeed, maybe ego has been placed there by THAT. Ego gets such a bum rap, but without it, many of us would be burnt-out husks. I’m taking the stance that my body isn’t ready to handle the full embodiment of spirit, and I trust that when it is, my awakening will occur as spontaneously as Adya’s. And as Brett said in another post on Adya:
It’s funny, before all this I was one of the people that was in a great rush for enlightenment, and now realize how much I’d be missing out on if it happened today. The past year and a half has been the most miraculous time of my life, and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. There is a saying that is escaping me right now which says something along the lines of “the journey is the goal”.
I had a lengthy conversation about this with another forumite over the weekend, who pointed out that there is a fundamentalist feeling behind this, and I would agree. In my born-again Christian days there was the underlying belief that if “bad stuff” was happening to you, it was because you were hiding some particularly foul sins, so best to just 'fess up, sister, and get right with God. In a subtle way my buttons are being similarly pushed. Since I haven’t yet awakened, my raging ego must be the culprit, so get thee to a meditation retreat where your ego will be nuked and fried. (plz note that I’m grossly exaggerating here, and I in no way believe this to be Adya’s official stance. But subtleties become pronounced over time, and I think that Adya’s teachings run the risk of alienating those unfortunate souls who simply are not prepared to awaken in this lifetime).
God bless AYP, the Methodists of spiritual awakening.
On the subject of seemingly-powerful statements about the ego, many teachers say stuff like ‘the only thing between you and your enlightenment is your ego, right at this moment’ etc. etc. etc. Well, saying that does seem to have value for some people at some times, as it seems sometimes to encourage an awakening. However, the people for whom this precipitated an awakening were probably in some respect, right ‘at the edge’ of some kind of an awakening anyway.
So the statement may have a motivational or stimulating value sometimes. But taken as a statement of fact, it’s somewhat empty or misleading. Because, what is this they are calling ‘your ego’? Well, it’s nothing other than the very way your nervous system is functioning. It’s the very way you are right now. So saying, ‘the only thing between you and your enlightenment is your ego’, is not very different in substance to saying ‘the only thing between you and your enlightenment is your non-enlightenment’ – or the only thing between you and your perfect health is your illness. No **** Sherlock – it’s all clear now, thanks for the key to perfect health.
So, I’m never sure of the value of these kind of sweeping statements about ego – and I’m never sure what exactly people are talking about when they say ‘ego’ – and I often wonder if people really understand what they are talking about when they say ego – or if the person speaking is talking about the same thing that the listener understands.
I do find Yogani’s lessons to be fairly free of these kind of statements. Ego isn’t mentioned often in the lessons at all, and when it is it is usually in the words of a questioner.
Hi David,
I quite agree with you.
When I hear the words “get rid of your ego” and I see those yogi-fakirs
trying to get rid of their ego by killing their body (their senses and feelings),
I think they are trying to kill the divine in them 
Well, this may be off topic, because it’s not really related
to Adyashanti, or is it ? Is he trying to kill his ego ?
I hope not.
cheers
Wolfgang
The ego isn’t a thing. It’s a projection resulting from our illusion of separateness. There’s nothing to kill.
Mind’s a different thing. Mind’s the collector and archiver of our sense impressions. Firing the librarian is a poor idea. But while it’s a wonderful servant, it’s a poor master. When we think the mind is what we are, when it is given free reign to do its drunken monkey routine, darting from thought to craving to revulsion to memory to craving to revulsion, results are highly dysfunctional. Ego is the narrative loosely constructed by the shape of the random dartings of mind. The narrative becomes identity. And identity supplants God.
Our ego is like a toddler steering his toy steering wheel with great attention in the passenger seat as daddy drives. We feel disoriented, angry, and disappointed that the car keeps turning when we don’t, and that our turns often have no effect. It’s a nauseating disconnection. But there are enough random coincidences (I steer my toy wheel and the car really does go that way) to keep us hooked to the delusion for our entire bloody lives.
To “kill the ego”, to use your term, is to simply let go of that completely ineffectual, more-than-slightly-insane toy steering wheel. There’s really no violence involved, and nothing lost, aside from lots of neurotic effort.
One alternative is to hack ways to hyper-power the toy steering wheel, and even maybe patch it semi-effectively into the car’s actual system (take THAT, you damned car!). Though the tools for doing this draw from the spiritual toolset, this approach means going 180 degrees the other way. You’ll never drop what you aim to strengthen.
David, watching for ego to be mentioned by name is rarely helpful. Leaving aside specific individuals and systems and speaking generally: the egoic (particularly those adopting a spiritual bent) are rarely aware that they are egoic, and certainly never proclaim themselves or their paths as such.
You yourself had a brilliant notion which was helpful to me. It’s the notion of having things “at stake”. That’s good stuff. The ego is the staker and the staked. It’s all a silly misperception which we fuel greatly via our daily life and strivings, and seek to reduce via yoga. Consider always whether you’re adding or reducing. It’s a great yardstick.
And be aware that staking is subtle. I may have a stake in feeling spiritual and humble, for example, in warning you about staking. The solution? Cut the cords. Drop it all. Surrender. Stop mucking around with it all. The goal isn’t to muck around more skillfully (which is what occult is about), it’s to get the hell out of the mud.
Personally Meg,just going by his presentation (which of course Ive only experienced 2nd-hand),Adya himself doesnt overly worry me.
Though Ive heard others criticise him as “Advaita-lite”,I think he puts it perspective quite well.Its just that ANY Path has its inevitable possibilities for some kind of distortion or excess.
Of all the Direct Path types I have read,Adya seems the most balanced,the most free of morbid fanatacism,so far as I can tell.This would also mean that when distortion arises,the integrity to acknowledge & deal with it would also (hopefully) follow fairly directly.
As I said in aprevious post,the irony is that Adyas take on the Direct Path has freed me from obsession with it,without in any way dismissing direct Path teachings.
If that happens to me just through reading his stuff & listening to a few cd’s,I imagine he must be a fairly worthwhile teacher
So apart from now being interested in what he has to say on pretty much any spiritual topic,Im also quite interested to see how his Sangha develops,& how they will handle the inevitable problems that must surely crop up sooner or later.I think it will be genuinely interesting & instructive for any practitioner,not just the Direct Path ones.
Regards,Cloud.
Cloud - I don’t see the problems arising so much from Adya’s teachings, as from the interpretations thereof. Misunderstanding of what is meant by ‘ego’, as David pointed out, or the frenzied ‘awaken-or-bust’ attitude of some of his followers. From my limited exposure to the scene, I see the emphasis on awakening as problematic, or at least not my cup of tea. I’m also turned off by the ‘hush’ that surrounds the man, which as far as I can tell has less to do with Adya’s self-promotion than with the predictable mythologizing of his followers. Didn’t Jesus also have this problem? On one hand he claimed to be God, but he made it abundantly clear to his followers that they were, too. I don’t envy enlightened teachers; it’s got to be frustrating as hell to keep the record straight. The admiration of Adya’s followers extends too far, imo. He may be enlightened, but I wouldn’t necessarily go to him for practical advice. I wouldn’t let him rotate my tires.