Also the energy seems to concentrate (not exclusively though aggressively) on the side I sleep on. If I sleep on my right side, for example, I’ll get shocks there that wake me up, and so on. It’s like the energy fluctuates and I once tried messaging my stomach (subtly) and the energy was moving the same way (downwards) and went to my legs. It’s a mess!
- If you’re meditating late, try doing it early instead. That might help the sleep thing.
- It might be both helpful and more true to understand that the body is nothing but blocks. That’s what a body is. No body, no block. The resistance is you, not something afflicting you. With that in mind you can settle in with a properly incremental, sensible, long-term approach (or you can go the route of mortification suggested above. Me? I’m not that Catholic).
You aren’t polishing and burnishing into Superman. That’s a very popular notion in this forum, and it’s completely wrong. You can’t polish a bag of blocks. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s (immerse in the world) and render unto god what is god’s (know you’re the silence encompassing all, and let the bindings sloooooowly unfurl). Find a balance. You’re swinging away from worldliness with the zeal of a new apostle. Swing back in to where you were, only with some perspective and spaciousness, not overdoing either prong. Be in the middle. .
I forgot to address these two things:
As I’ve repeatedly said in this thread and in the Kundalini Overload thread, you’re not going to figure it all out. Nor do you need to. The obsessive need to take it all apart and master it (and the bhakti that drives this obsession) is, itself, the problem. Energy follows attention, so you only further stoke your heat by ruminating about your heat. Meditate - a little. Otherwise be in the world and immerse in that without considering your spiritual junk.
It may be unavoidable fate for you to spend a decade repeating a certain prayer, or drinking gallons of pear juice, or wearing only purple clothes, or hopping on your left foot whenever you eat something salty. But you’re obstinately missing the gist: stop obsessively trying to cure your obsession via obsessive obsession. Rotely do your meditation and otherwise BE NORMAL (perhaps following one or two of my grounding suggestions).
The alternative is to keep paying loads of attention to your flows and your chakras and whatever and try to figure it all out and find the magic formula and rewire yourself. And then, 20 miserable years later, look back and see your mistake.
I’m really not trying to master anything, I’m only trying to gain a rudimentary, practical (not a metaphysical or even thoroughly physical) understanding of what is happening inside my body. I’m certainly not trying to unlock the “secrets” of Kundalini. All I need is a better understanding of the phenomenon, on a purely phenomenological level. Surly this is something that won’t hurt. You did it yourself during your long years of experimenting and trying to understand what kind of practice was best suited for your symptoms (how could you have done it if, for example, you didn’t know the first thing about how and where energy travels in the body?). This is the kind of perspective I seek, not the unlocking of Kundalini secrets or a Superman awakening. I’ve learned the hard way that these are uncharted waters (energy, Kundalini, etc), and that it’s always better to be safe than sorry. Believe me, I know. But a little bit of theorizing is always a good thing. We can’t always walk with our eyes closed.
For example, and like I’ve said before, I’ve realized that when the “energy” is stuck at some point of the body and just won’t move without causing severe overload symptoms, I don’t get the the electric (Shakti?) current shock up through my spine and the circuit isn’t “complete”. So what I did yesterday (I slept during the day because I couldn’t sleep at night) was sleep on the opposite side to where the energy was building up (I took your advice of asymmetrical energy leveling and I know first hand that energy is usually dense on whatever side I sleep on), and this in turn (apparently) resulted in some balancing out, and there you have it: the so-called Shakti electric shock made its way to the spine and showed its face! It’s almost as if the spine shock (again, Shakti?) is an indicator of some degree of energy balance (what do you think?). See, this is the sort of practical understanding I seek, a diagram of some sort, a rudimentary understanding of dynamics, not essences. In other words I’m not saying this because I want a reason to focus on the energy or even approach it with curiosity, but to understand how to best ground it instead.
A rough sketch of the way energy moves throughout the body is a starter. I understanding Kundalini is located at the base of the spine and travels upwards to the third eye. In other words its natural movement is upwards. From there you’re saying the energy discharges to the frontal region of the body. But is it supposed to reach the legs as well? Because I do sometimes feel like the energy can move downwards (beyond the originating point of Kundalini) and when this is induced it can hurt my legs very much. Is there a map for these energy movements?
This is why I was wondering a lot about yoga postures (Asanas, as they call it) because from my experience some postures (physical, not meditative) can be very grounding. I mean walking is grounding also but not grounding enough for the most part.
Also you’re saying I should back to meditation (mindfulness), which I think I will, but not for 60 minutes a day like I use to. I’ll do 10 minutes every day and stop at the first sight of tension/pressure at any one of my Chakras.
Wait a minute I think I just found what I was looking for. The “road map” for energy movements are called Nadi, and the Chakras are, of course, the points of intensity. I will try to gain some understanding on how the energy moves and how to best ground energy that is stuck at the Chakras and what different grounding techniques are best suited for grounding energy stuck at the different Chakras of the “subtle” body. A little search on Google showed me how ignorant I was on meditation, yoga and the spiritual culture in general (Hinduism and Buddhism), mainly because it’s marketed as a religion. Why didn’t someone educate me BEFORE Kundalini wreaked havoc on my body lol!?
It’s my understanding these concepts (Nadi, Chakras, etc) are time-honored so there’d be no point looking for contemporary scientific explanations/parallels.
Ok, that’s a fair take on my somewhat sloppy writing. Sorry!
I do know about nadis and chakras. I’ve put in the 10,000 hours of hatha yoga training, and another 10,000 hours on Taoist energy training. And what it allows you to do in this particular scenario is two things: 1. notice with greater sensitivity how fried you are, leading to greater discomfort and greater obsession, which, in turn, compounds the energy flow (once again, energy follows attention), and 2. tinker around, finding that no matter what you do it only makes it worse (though you’ll experience tantalizing but ultimately futile eurekas). Again, efficiently removing obstructions INCREASES FLOW. So hyper-awareness of obstructions will only increase the problem.
There are times when you want this sort of sensitivity and mapping and knowledge. For example, I had a heart attack a few years ago, and noticed it so ridiculously early that I had absolutely no damage and am 100% fine. I’ve self-healed from dozens of maladies. Lots of great fringe benefits. But there are times you want to take your mind off it all and go out and do sh*t. You’re in one of those times.
If I seem a bit exasperated it’s because this is about the thousandth time someone has vigorously thanked me for my helpful advice and then stated a desire to do precisely the thing I advised against. It makes me try to clarify, and clarify the clarification, etc, until I’m making my point with such disproportional force that it actually works the other way, and gets confusing. So let me try to pull back to simplicity:
Don’t work on your energy. Working on your energy (or having other people work on your energy) increases energy. GET OFF THE ENTIRE DAMNED SUBJECT! Go bowling! Hang out with annoying people you can’t stand! Shop till you drop! Call your aunt! Sign up for a kickball league!
And don’t stop practices. If you lose whatever perspective of silence you’ve attained (and you will if you quit practice) that will compound your problem.
Your two salvations will be: silence (from meditation) and worldliness (from plunging back in). In the meantime, my suggestions in that long thread (e.g. you MUST be on a pitta-reducing diet) are like minor bandaids. Don’t plaster yourself in bandaids. Don’t pursue the perfect bandaid. Reread the first sentence of this paragraph. Again. And again. And again. The hot-headedness which brought you here will find ways not to hear it. Read it again. Again!
Please don’t thank me and then go to some shaman or healer or take some drug or spend time reading this forum and other spiritual web sites and books. It’s certainly your option to do any/all of those things, so go ahead if you’d like, but don’t imagine you’re following my advice.
One more thing (though I hesitate to offer more mind food):
You’ll discover over time that these fireworks were what you’d been subconsciously hoping for in your meditation practice. We’re all wired to seek them. It’s the deeply-engrained brass ring. Every orgasm has been a tantalizing taste of it. Whether you knew it or not, it’s been your fundamental quest.
Now that you’ve experienced it, it will take years to become fully cognizant that the experience is behind you - in your rear view mirror.
Until then, you’ll senselessly continue seeking the fireworks, hoping for the fireworks, out of sheer momentum of habit. It’s over (and, as with all other achievements, there’s no permanent satisfaction; just a new set of management responsibilities and unintended consequences). Yet you continue seeking it, like a mouse pushing the button in the laboratory that once provided a pellet of mouse food. Again, it’s mostly unconscious. And it’s perfectly understandable.
Listen to me: You’ve HAD the fireworks. Sure, you can have them again, but 1. you already experienced them, so it won’t be special, and 2. there’s no, like, BETTER fireworks - the ones that fix everything. This is as fireworky as your life will ever get, in this or any universe. You experienced The Thing. Been there/done that. You maxed out. God’s lightning bolt hath struck - how freakin’ awesome and lucky for you, right? - and now there is no greater Thing ahead.
There is no greater Thing ahead.
The moment this clarifies for you, to your very marrow, you will pivot and innately seek (and thus find) more and more silence in your meditation. And that’s the good stuff. And it will provide balance.
I am sorry that is your experience but that is completely and utterly wrong.
These fireworks are just the beginning. Beyond the fireworks is changes in ones being. The wonders never end…
So you thought I was saying that there is no growth or change or experience after kundalini? No, that’d be asinine.
I’m saying exactly what you’re saying. The fireworks are the beginning. But kundalini fireworks are the final fireworks. There is no higher/greater firework; no bigger bang. And once you maturely recognize that (i.e. cease subconsciously yearning for the experience you’ve ALREADY HAD), that’s when the grounding really happens and the silence is fully inhabited and lots of other good stuff happens that’s way deeper (and less biologically problematic) than fireworks.
So you thought I was saying that there is no growth or change or experience after kundalini? No, that’d be asinine.
I’m saying exactly what you’re saying. The fireworks are the beginning. But kundalini fireworks are the final fireworks. There is no higher/greater firework; no bigger bang. And once you maturely recognize that (i.e. cease subconsciously yearning for the experience you’ve ALREADY HAD), that’s when the grounding really happens and the silence is fully inhabited and lots of other good stuff happens that’s way deeper (and less biologically problematic) than fireworks.
Thank you Jim for clarifying things for me. I am still not sure i am following it all. Are you saying the the energy he is feeling now, the issues will pass. While it may be cool in some respects over time it kind of goes away and there is really no more energy experiences or realizations about energy beyond this current flair up? I am not sure if you are saying this is as bad as it gets or if this is it period regarding energy.
Our whole lives (whether we’re yogis or not) we subconsciously seek a burst of fireworks; some big bang experience. Orgasms are a hint of it, but still not the full thing. So we all keep trying. Spiritual seekers (at least in the more bhakti-filled approaches) can smell this experience even more strongly, so we want it even more. A lot more.
When kundalini awakens, it’s the ultimate fulfillment of that subconscious yearning. It’s the experience we’d all been looking for, of which orgasm was only a hint. It’s the thunder strike from heaven that countless people seek.
Of course, it presents some sloppy issues and consequences to be handled, including, perhaps, overload issues. We discover that, despite all efforts, it’s notoriously hard to tamp down all this energy and get the genie back in the bottle.
Why is that?
There’s another process at work! The deep desire fulfilled by kundalini awakening doesn’t simply stop (for the same reason million dollar lottery winners often keep buying tickets): fundamental processes don’t just stop on a dime. So we keep needlessly yearning, for a while, for the thing we already got.
One must realize, in one’s bones, that the bang has banged, and the fireworks have shot; that you’ve gone as far, pyrotechnically, as you can go. You must recognize, with finality, that there is not greater firework!
Six or seven years after kundalini awakened for me (and after a number of re-ignitions and after-tremors), as I was meditating I noticed, with alarm, that I was still vaguely expecting some sort of “experience”, merely out of habit. Not kundalini, specifically; I was simply meditating as I’d always meditated, which meant expecting some vague notion of a thunder strike. A prize. This drive was unconscious…which is why it lingered long beyond its usefulness.
I needed to consciously remind myself that the Big Thunder Strike was BEHIND me. I’d been there and done that. There is no greater firework to be experienced.
There is no greater firework to be experienced.
There is no greater firework to be experienced.
I knew it, but hadn’t really baked it in: The biggest bang had banged, so there was no bigger bang to work toward. That part was over.
At that moment, meditation refined and I very quickly stopped pretending I wasn’t boundless silence (except for sh*ts and giggles). And this quiet, subtle transformation did not come with a bang, nor did it deliver much sensation of energy. Kundalini was more like shmoondalini (for the humorless, that’s my irreverent way of saying it became beside-the-point).
BTW, for those who have not awakened kundalini, I’ve built a pretty solid argument for why that awakening is not a fitting goal in and of itself (even besides the perils and pitfalls of overload). Juicer stuff lays beyond kundalini, headed the OTHER way, into silence, and kundalini is not a prerequisite to that. Many spiritual traditions - more cool-headed ones - make no reference to kundalini or other energetic awakenings. They shoot straight to silence.
Yogani says it a zillion times: silence is the really good stuff. So everyone’s pretty much on board (except super Tantra-oriented teachers, i.e. fireworks specialists).
Just be careful what you wish for - both figuratively and literally. If you meditate with a subconscious expectation of fireworks, you’ll eventually experience them. And when you do, you’ll spend years removing the remnants of that yearning out of your system. Maybe better to do that earlier…?
Understand that I’m not urging anyone AGAINST kundalini. It’s not something to actively avoid or fear (the bliss is pretty damned good, really…though it’s ultimately just another layer of worldly distraction).
But you might want to be smarter than me and go straight to the quieter, smaller unclenching where you stop pretending you aren’t boundless silence. Just mature past any desire for a thunder strike, if you can intuitively see past the flashy attraction of it. Recognize it as a detour, and choose to renounce it (pro tip: god has a notoriously spotty record in fulfilling prayers for stuff, but he’s super responsive about helping us renounce stuff if we ask nicely).
If you can get beyond expecting/needing bangs (because you see the higher wisdom and greater maturity of it, not because you’re scared of kundalini), that would be awesome. But it shouldn’t be an obsession, or some mindy thing to chew on. It’s a frame of mind. If it comes naturally, cool. If not, take the well-worn path.
I won’t have anything further to say on this thought. Consider it a quick word to the wise, not a new spiritual pathway I’m hoping to proselytize. It’s not something I, myself, did, so I can’t offer pointers beyond the above speculative musings.
And while I don’t purport to speak for Yogani, I don’t think anything I’ve said conflicts with AYP, which, yes, offers a pathway into (and out of) kundalini, but, once again, repeatedly notes that stillness/silence is the really good stuff (see the above lesson link, for example, which, btw, answers a question I myself sent in).
Hey Tom,
“If you can find a real guru, he can provide that extra space for someone like you or Piruz to let the obstructions go. To make the process smoother.”
That’s not my experience. I know it is yours and a couple of others that’s why I mentioned it.
Hey Piruz,
You will see labels like “premature crown opening” and " overload victims ". Please take them and throw them in the the trash. They are not helpful. They are a box that someone is putting you in.
Take care,
Lori
I believe you did experience exactly that. Did you not find extra space to drop issues when you were caught up? I can remember a few times when it helped with you.
A couple of things Jim.
First it is correct to not desire more fireworks or any state of being or experience.
Once such desires drop, there are much better fireworks. Silence is only half of the equation while energy is the other.
What is being discussed here is just the beginning, the awakening to energy. It grows much more from there.
Jim, the main theme of your posts make sense, like they always do, and I never fundamentally disagreed in the first place. But why you think I’m trying to mess with my energy or actively summon it, just because I’m trying to understand the underlying mechanisms of grounding, I have no clue. You speak of yogis unconsciously seeking so-called firework experiences, something to which I can definitely relate. But again, rest assured that my approach to post-Kundalini yoga is not the same is pre-Kundalini. In fact, I never bothered much with theory before Kundalini.
A little reading on Nadis and Chakras showed me how ignorant I was. There is apparently a network of energy tunnels (Nadi) and points of intensity (Chakras) with numerous systems of meditation designed specifically to unblock the blockages and eventually force energy into the central Sushumna. It’s not just Kundalini yoga but so many other practice.
This sort of energy unblocking does seem to be what every other practice is ultimately (though not immediately) about, even mindfulness. Not only was I never advised about this when I first started practicing, but I was deliberately discouraged from looking into it. Mindfuless tells us that meditation isn’t about any specific “thing” but about the “experience itself”. Well, maybe, but those clowns forgot to mention how the “experience itself” was dynamic and clearly had an agenda of some sort and was at any given time clearly goal-oriented in one way or another. They never told me that “letting go” was just the start.
I don’t want fireworks or “spiritual experiences”. I want the exact opposite, which is the knowledge and understanding that will eventually reverse these habits.
The acquisition and application of this knowledge will require you to direct your attention toward your energy and your overload. In bringing attention to energy and overload, you increase energy and overload. You need to direct less attention there, not more. It would be helpful to sign up for a hot dog eating contest or start compulsively listing discarded electronic equipment on eBay.
That’s a start.
If your goal is to stop your spiritual experiences. To have it all end then what Jim is telling you to do is correct.
Don’t read spiritual stuff, just start getting caught up again in all the ego stuff. Wanting this or that, desiring things, getting lost in day dreams of wanting. Eventually you will get so caught up again in stuff that it will all go away.
Not anything I would recommend… but that is the way.